I'm taking a trip to Boston tomorrow and filled up last night and have 600+ miles range so I won't need to refuel for 4-6 weeks. That's the type of convenience I'm looking for. I generally plan things but there's always plenty of gas in at least one of my cars so that I can take longer trips if I have to. I might have driven to DC this week but it looks like I won't need to.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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I'm taking a trip to Boston tomorrow and filled up last night and have 600+ miles range so I won't need to refuel for 4-6 weeks. That's the type of convenience I'm looking for. I generally plan things but there's always plenty of gas in at least one of my cars so that I can take longer trips if I have to. I might have driven to DC this week but it looks like I won't need to.
A good example is adding broadband when houses are 1/4 mile or further apart. I drove 100 miles into Montana many years ago and that place is rural. Just miles and miles and miles of farmland and a house every once in a while.
EVs are incredibly expensive. My wife and I were paying for 2 Civics before we got our used 2018 Tesla Model 3. We are easily saving 1 civic payment in the reduction of fuel costs and a little bit in insurance reduction as well. My wife gets free level 1 charging at UCLA which adds to the savings.
Not having to go to gas stations has been AMAZING. Here in CA where I live, gas station lines can result in 15 mins of waiting to fuel up (or more). I averaged 40 mins fueling up both our civics every week at Costco (and Costco is only 3 miles away, lol).
Waking up to a charged car is extremely convenient. Supercharging is also extremely convenient when you plan it out - it pre-warms the battery so you can go from low charge to 80% in 15 mins if you get a 250kw station (1100 mi/hr). Car is very good about letting you know how much each trip will take and it is fairly accurate. We get about 271 miles on our LR (220 if doing 80+).
Now the negatives? Cost of electricity has increased. Supercharging costs since February 2022 have skyrocketed (thankfully charging 11pm-4am - they're as cheap as our house but adds to the inconvenience). We had a 2 tire blowout on the freeway that was very expensive. These tires aren't cheap. Teslas do not like water flow - had to replace the bottom guards ($600). And build quality is not great but we came from GMs and Civics so eh.
Some positives? We absolutely love that the car customizes settings for each driver based on cellphone - so me opening the door, the seat, mirrors, steering is customized to my preferences by the time I sit down - same if my wife open's the driver's seat door). Having cameras everywhere has been great - this will help us if we ever need to use it in the event of an accident or helping others. Driving this car is very fun. Driving in traffic gives us BACK battery mileage almost to the tune of 2x (meaning a 51 mile drive only costs 25 miles in heavy traffic).
Socal Edison lets us pay less for electricity because we have an EV. So I'm paying $.22/kwhr while everyone else is paying $.35-$.38/kwhr. We also got a $1000 check from Socal Edison for purchasing our used EV too. Being able to use the carpool lane is nice and has saved countless hours on my wife's travel to UCLA and back.
THAT SAID. We paid $48k for our used Tesla Model 3 LR AWD with 38k miles on it. My highest car payment ever. Most of the EVs that I'd want are in the high $34k-$50k range. I can get a nice Civic for $21k and that thing is going to be reliable as heck. Charging is a freaking mess - especially 3rd party. Most 3rd party stations are set up in such a way that they discourage charging for more than 4 hours (by charging outrageous per hour fees). So if you're like me at an apartment complex where all you have is level 1 charging, hopefully that works for you, but if not, good luck.
Tesla's increased supercharging rates were justified by installing quite a few more superchargers in CA. When we got our car, the closest one was 20 mins away. Now we have one less than 2 miles away. Still makes it expensive ($.51/kwhr) when we're charging mid-day during a trip. We've been lucky and haven't had to wait in a line but we avoid traveling during holidays.
My wife is the only one who drives and she drives 51 miles one way M W F. So Level 1 gets us by but it's barely enough. I can't imagine what having a Level 2 at home is like. Guaranteed, our next place will ONLY be a place with EV charging. And we won't be able to afford another EV for awhile. lol.
Not having to go to gas stations has been AMAZING. Here in CA where I live, gas station lines can result in 15 mins of waiting to fuel up (or more). I averaged 40 mins fueling up both our civics every week at Costco (and Costco is only 3 miles away, lol).
Waking up to a charged car is extremely convenient. Supercharging is also extremely convenient when you plan it out - it pre-warms the battery so you can go from low charge to 80% in 15 mins if you get a 250kw station (1100 mi/hr). Car is very good about letting you know how much each trip will take and it is fairly accurate. We get about 271 miles on our LR (220 if doing 80+).
Now the negatives? Cost of electricity has increased. Supercharging costs since February 2022 have skyrocketed (thankfully charging 11pm-4am - they're as cheap as our house but adds to the inconvenience). We had a 2 tire blowout on the freeway that was very expensive. These tires aren't cheap. Teslas do not like water flow - had to replace the bottom guards ($600). And build quality is not great but we came from GMs and Civics so eh.
Some positives? We absolutely love that the car customizes settings for each driver based on cellphone - so me opening the door, the seat, mirrors, steering is customized to my preferences by the time I sit down - same if my wife open's the driver's seat door). Having cameras everywhere has been great - this will help us if we ever need to use it in the event of an accident or helping others. Driving this car is very fun. Driving in traffic gives us BACK battery mileage almost to the tune of 2x (meaning a 51 mile drive only costs 25 miles in heavy traffic).
Socal Edison lets us pay less for electricity because we have an EV. So I'm paying $.22/kwhr while everyone else is paying $.35-$.38/kwhr. We also got a $1000 check from Socal Edison for purchasing our used EV too. Being able to use the carpool lane is nice and has saved countless hours on my wife's travel to UCLA and back.
THAT SAID. We paid $48k for our used Tesla Model 3 LR AWD with 38k miles on it. My highest car payment ever. Most of the EVs that I'd want are in the high $34k-$50k range. I can get a nice Civic for $21k and that thing is going to be reliable as heck. Charging is a freaking mess - especially 3rd party. Most 3rd party stations are set up in such a way that they discourage charging for more than 4 hours (by charging outrageous per hour fees). So if you're like me at an apartment complex where all you have is level 1 charging, hopefully that works for you, but if not, good luck.
Tesla's increased supercharging rates were justified by installing quite a few more superchargers in CA. When we got our car, the closest one was 20 mins away. Now we have one less than 2 miles away. Still makes it expensive ($.51/kwhr) when we're charging mid-day during a trip. We've been lucky and haven't had to wait in a line but we avoid traveling during holidays.
My wife is the only one who drives and she drives 51 miles one way M W F. So Level 1 gets us by but it's barely enough. I can't imagine what having a Level 2 at home is like. Guaranteed, our next place will ONLY be a place with EV charging. And we won't be able to afford another EV for awhile. lol.
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It only seems to happen when southern states get unusually cold temps like a little bit ago. They had to do rolling blackouts because it was extra cold for the area, and they couldn't keep up with the power for heating
The infrastructure is exactly what kills it here in SE PA. Some of the non Tesla vehicle prices are somewhat reasonable, but in an apartment, you are at the mercy of how many charging stations there are
Exactly I wish they would make more workplaces have charging. One issue would be the lower lncome people live in apartment, so even with a more reasonable priced vehicle, where do you charge when your area has barely any charging stations?
This makes me think of the old days when cells first came out. If your battery went, you got a new phone.
Even if we wanted to put up with the crappy normal plug, there's no parking space right by where we have a plug. We'd have to run it from the patio through the grass and hope that a close space is even open. And it could be run over when they mow, or some dick could come and pull it out to be cruel.
I'm sure some of the bigger cities are better, but the only chargers I know for sure here is at Giant PA. And I think they only have one, and I don't know the speed
I'm extremely lucky that my complex - each "unit" has individual covered garages as the first floor (but only level 1 outlets). Electricians quote $3k+ to string a 50 amp cable from the breaker box on the 2nd floor (our first floor) to the garage area.
But most apartment complexes - yeah, no outlet near parking. And while I may be generalizing - a lot of people commuting long distance for work are in apartment complexes so they need it the most.
I am good if just going to work. It's <15mi round trip if I don't go anywhere else.
In New England, coal plants have been shut down as have some nuclear plants. The hope was to get power from HydroQuebec but building the lines from Canada to Massachusetts has been surprisingly challenging.
I think that California is one of the worst cases in terms of gasoline prices and demand. It looks like gasoline prices are about 33% higher than in my state. I filled up last night in a station with 6 pumps. One of the other pumps was occupied. I went to that gasoline station because it was next to CVS and I needed to run in for a few things. Cost was $3.10. There are some gasoline stations withing 30 minutes under $3 but I'd only use them if I were otherwise already in the area.
Infrastructure upgrades are very expensive, take a long time to implement, and are unpalatable to political short-termists who will never see the fruits of their labor benefit them electorally. Taxpayers are equally short-sighted and see only the immediate expense and inconvenience rather than the critical need to invest for the long-term benefits.
Yet virtually every modern convenience we rely on is wholly dependent on the constant maintenance and upgrading of that infrastructure. We should be throwing money at our power infrastructure, but we tend to ignore it except when it suffers a catastrophic failure. And even then the 'fix' is usually some sort of cheap, temporary 'band-aid.'
It's not just about EVs of course, it's about everything from food storage to staving off hypothermia.
Yet virtually every modern convenience we rely on is wholly dependent on the constant maintenance and upgrading of that infrastructure. We should be throwing money at our power infrastructure, but we tend to ignore it except when it suffers a catastrophic failure. And even then the 'fix' is usually some sort of cheap, temporary 'band-aid.'
It's not just about EVs of course, it's about everything from food storage to staving off hypothermia.
And yet the facts in terms of US consumer preferences argue otherwise.
(Southern CA):
Yeah when gas hit $5/gal in February 2022 we freaked because we couldn't afford it. Thankfully my job went 100% remote. This along with gas prices helped motivate our purchase of our EV - so we sold both of our 2018 Civics for 80% cash of what we paid (used market was great then).
Gas went up to $7/gal where we lived for quite a few months in 2022.
Today it's back down to around $4.80/gal (Google Maps). From 2018 to early 2022 we paid mostly $3.xx/gal.
May 2022 near our house:
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Heck for only like 10c a gallon more, I would easily go to one like that instead of one that's a deathtrap to get in and out and you wait forever for your turn. I'd rather pay another $1.40 to avoid the stress and time wasting
I was thinking specifically if banking where you were decades behind us with chip and pin for example. But I’m sure there are other areas. But yes the vast distances make it different for sure.
Yea they already go backwards because they just want short term $$$. I said from the beginning they needed to go grid chargers vehicles and then you see the articles about people needing to ration use because the grid is overloaded
Yeah, can get expensive. We upgraded our 1905-built home from about 160 amps (don’t ask) ungrounded (yeah, we saw that as a problem) coming in from an overhead power line, to 400 amps. 100 amps of the 400amps goes back to our detached garage 50 feet away. We also took out the overhead power line, called the “service drop,” and ran new lines down the pole and underground all the way to the house service entrance. The cost for us to do the upgrade and bury the power line was about US$10,000 all in, including the new 400amp load center (circuit breaker box) feeding two new 200amp load centers plus a new 100amp load center in the garage, plus all the individual breakers required for the house circuits plus growth. Additionally, the power company had to replace the transformer on the pole with a higher capacity one, fortunately at their cost, and we have the benefit of a new and higher capacity transformer for us and two other homes. We love the capabilities correctly-grounded 400 amps give us and don’t expect to need more for the next 117 years of this home’s life.
By the way, watching the workers run the very heavy, very stiff, large gauge aluminum wires from the transformer to our service entrance was fascinating, at least to me. We were responsible for digging the trench minimally 42inches/107cm deep to comply with code, and include a sealed 4in/10cm conduit with gentle, not 90º, curves. As the conduit was installed, a thin steel pull wire was drawn though it from one end to the other. When finished and the trench covered over, the electricians tied a strand of three huge wires into a bundle at one end. This was connected to the thin steel wire in the conduit to be pulled from the other end, a total distance of about 80ft/24m through three curved sections. Big, very strong, experienced gentlemen were involved. One was the puller, one ensured the three heavy-duty wires came off their reels evenly without kinking, and the third had a huge tub of grease at his feet. He grabbed handfuls of this grease and slathered it liberally onto the cable just before it went into the conduit. Took about an hour to push/pull this slimy wire snake into place. US residential current is 120/240v single phase, created by two 120v and one neutral line from the transformer, so three heavy wires. We did that nine years ago, all is working very well today. I can only imagine today’s costs to do the same.
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Here they are putting on street charging stations in London etc. but having to play hunt the charger each night would be stressful. Even though I rarely use my fast charger at home, I’d not have bought an EV without one.
Sure, don't deny that. Sad though as they are choosing to be left behind. But the world is much bigger than just the US.
4 linemen, 3 line trucks, 2 people to install the meter from the electric company.
Electric company cut power at 7, had to have the line run and to the box by 815 for inspection.
Electricians - remove hardware/wiring and boxes replace and all had to be rewired for a 330 inspection.
two New boxes, 5 new arch protected breakers, additional conduit, additional 50 amp sub panel with buried conduit and wiring, all the permitting and labor for $5000. My sister owns an electrical company in MA she gave me her price with the brother discount, it still wasn't close.
She is getting jobs for popping breaker. When her Master electrician goes to the job guess what he finds. The work of a do it yourself car charger.
We have the electric supply we will need for the future
This is exactly what I was talking about. The number of ATMs in the US, the number of Credit/Debit card users in the US (I have 4 debit cards from different banks, and 1 credit card; my wife has more). All the Point of Sales equipment had to be changed to handle this tech. The networking speeds needed to be improved to handle the volume of transactions.
I think it is often people forget (including myself) the population and land mass associated with the US. Other countries this size or larger tend not to have as large of a middle class, so there are really less users of this tech.
We are sitting around 330 million people, which puts us 3rd in the world, behind China and India. If you were to account for population with bank accounts, I'm going to guess it is close to, if not more than people in China or India, which a large part of their population doesn't even have electricity or running water. Almost everyone (except our homeless population) has utilities and bank accounts.
The US is 3rd in land mass, behind Russia and Canada, which both have less inhabitable land (they can only live on the coasts). We have people almost everywhere on our land (obviously Alaska isn't in that figure).
Living in the NYC Metroplex, I'm around a crazy amount of people, but even with that I forget the sheer size and population of the US.
I am an EV AND ICE lover. I just love vehicles, all kinds. I think I could easily make the switch to EV and benefit. But right now, I'm not vehicle hunting. I will be looking for EVs going forward. But I can understand the hesitation for some areas in the US. People forget there are areas where we have bad weather, and right now EV Trucks/SUVs that are high enough to handle the weather are in small numbers or are too much money.
Excuses excuses. Whilst the US as one country may have 330M people, the EU which is effectively very similar has 447M people and way more diverse government, cultures, ancient history and so on to deal with. And land mass of europe is actually bigger than the US
