Why do some continue using Microsoft Office on Mac?

[sracer]

I know I'm late to this discussion, but there are two reasons to use LibreOffice over Word.

The first is that ODT is a far more stable document format than DOCX, and especially DOC.

Second, LibreOffice handles multi-file documents with ease, so much so that you can download its own 400+ page manuals in multi-file documents. Word's multi-file documents are a rapid path to insanity. I know, I have tried.

You can write your document in ODT with LibreOffice, then save as DOCX when you are finished. If you need ultra-conservative MS Word document formatting, then you can open it up in MS Word and save as again.

Excellent points. I think I previously mentioned (but this is a long thread) LibreOffice Writer's ability to handle large documents. I have a few documents that I've created in LibreOffice that have over 3000 pages and 1500 hyperlinks. It handles them without breaking a sweat.

In contrast, MS Word started choking after only a few hundred pages.

Going from ODT ➜ DOCX is indeed a safe path. Another excellent point that I had not considered was to open that file in MS Word and save it again. That ensures that the shenanigans that MS Word injects into files is recreated. 😁

 

[MrMojo1]

I know I'm late to this discussion, but there are two reasons to use LibreOffice over Word.

The first is that ODT is a far more stable document format than DOCX, and especially DOC.

Second, LibreOffice handles multi-file documents with ease, so much so that you can download its own 400+ page manuals in multi-file documents. Word's multi-file documents are a rapid path to insanity. I know, I have tried.

You can write your document in ODT with LibreOffice, then save as DOCX when you are finished. If you need ultra-conservative MS Word document formatting, then you can open it up in MS Word and save as again.

People often neglect WordPerfect which is still used today.
It's still Much better than Word any day, esp. for long documents, formatting and editing, as it's still used in many professional firms, as those are still weaknesses in Word.
You'll have to pry WP from my hands!!
Lotus 123 was great and kicked Excel's butt in the early days but the defuncted company never bothered to keep up with MS Excel which lead Excel to be the spreadsheet leader it is today.
Sadly, too many people just 'use' MS Office without 'knowing' how to use it properly.
Google Docs stink and LibreOffice just can't match MS Office or WP.
You get what you pay for.. it's free, so there's that.
To be fair, MS did update MS Office for Mac so the functionality is closer to the Windows version but still lacking in some areas.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

People often neglect WordPerfect which is still used today.
It's still Much better than Word any day, esp. for long documents, formatting and editing, as it's still used in many professional firms, as those are still weaknesses in Word.
You'll have to pry WP from my hands!!
Lotus 123 was great and kicked Excel's butt in the early days but the defuncted company never bothered to keep up with MS Excel which lead Excel to be the spreadsheet leader it is today.
Sadly, too many people just 'use' MS Office without 'knowing' how to use it properly.
Google Docs stink and LibreOffice just can't match MS Office or WP.
You get what you pay for.. it's free, so there's that.
To be fair, MS did update MS Office for Mac so the functionality is closer to the Windows version but still lacking in some areas.

While I used to use WordPerfect on my Amiga, it is no longer appropriate for me as it is not available on Mac or Linux.

"LibreOffice just can't match MS Office or WP." What features is LO missing here.
Yes, MS Office is designed for an office, collaborative, business environment, but it is not appropriate for home or academic use. It is over-burdened with features that the home user doesn't need, yet is not capable of handling the complex documents that an academic may need to write.

I agree that "too many people just 'use' MS Office without 'knowing' how to use it properly." One study has found that over 60% of Excel spreadsheets used in business have errors in them, some fundamental.

 

[davidg4781]

I'm sure others have said this but I'll chime in...

I'm using Word and Excel just for compatibility with others at work. I know I can export from Pages or Numbers into those apps but sometimes it's not just right. Even going from Word on Mac to Word on Windows, I've had compatibility issues in the past.

But if it's just something for me or something I'll export into PDF, I'll use Apple's Apps.

 

[Sarah_Baker]

A lot of people here say they use the MS apps for work reasons. For me, I don't have to use them for such reasons, I don't like their interface and they are too complex. I prefer the simplicity of Apple Numbers, Keynote.

 

[MacBH928]

I know I'm late to this discussion, but there are two reasons to use LibreOffice over Word.

The first is that ODT is a far more stable document format than DOCX, and especially DOC.

Second, LibreOffice handles multi-file documents with ease, so much so that you can download its own 400+ page manuals in multi-file documents. Word's multi-file documents are a rapid path to insanity. I know, I have tried.

You can write your document in ODT with LibreOffice, then save as DOCX when you are finished. If you need ultra-conservative MS Word document formatting, then you can open it up in MS Word and save as again.

what you mean stable document?

 

[MacBH928]

People often neglect WordPerfect which is still used today.
It's still Much better than Word any day, esp. for long documents, formatting and editing, as it's still used in many professional firms, as those are still weaknesses in Word.
You'll have to pry WP from my hands!!

I asked this before, why does WP even exist? what reason people go for it? Previously in this thread a member mentioned that it has not been having any new features since like 2002. Just fixes to make it run on modern Windows.

I agree that "too many people just 'use' MS Office without 'knowing' how to use it properly." One study has found that over 60% of Excel spreadsheets used in business have errors in them, some fundamental.

In my experience, MS Office is always the most capable. The problem is, try figuring out HOW to make it work. I found out that a lot of the time the solution is always extremely unintuitive.

I'm sure others have said this but I'll chime in...

I'm using Word and Excel just for compatibility with others at work. I know I can export from Pages or Numbers into those apps but sometimes it's not just right. Even going from Word on Mac to Word on Windows, I've had compatibility issues in the past.

I opened a DOCX document in Office web , it messed the formatting. Only the Office app displayed it correctly.

A lot of people here say they use the MS apps for work reasons. For me, I don't have to use them for such reasons, I don't like their interface and they are too complex. I prefer the simplicity of Apple Numbers, Keynote.

For Apple Numbers, Excel is so much more capable but if Numbers get you by, by all means go for it. I used numbers without issues until I reached a point where I needed the Excel capability.

 

[davidg4781]

A lot of people here say they use the MS apps for work reasons. For me, I don't have to use them for such reasons, I don't like their interface and they are too complex. I prefer the simplicity of Apple Numbers, Keynote.

Oh my gosh. I recently had to do some work on a Word document with tables and formats. It seemed the location of some of the items in the tool bar kept changing. I'd need to start a bulleted list and sometimes it was there, sometimes it was hidden. Very annoying.

 

[EdwardC]

I have Office for Mac 2021 but tend to use Pages for work. I don't have to share the documents for collaboration, only as PDF's so compatibility is not an issue.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

what you mean stable document?

Simply, ODT is less likely to be corrupted than a DOCX file, and much, much more likely to become corrupted than a DOC file.

Most people wouldn't come across this because they deal with short (< 10 page) documents. However, if you have a long (> 100 page) document with many, many edits, DOCX and DOC files can become unreadable. I have had this happen so many times that I would save files as versions (V1, V2, ... etc) to make sure I could always go back to a working copy.
I have never, never, ever, ever had this happen with a ODT file.

The importance of stability is so important that ODT (technically ODF) is the obligatory file format for NATO.

 

[mtbdudex]

Remember Lotus 1-2-3?
DOS based, then Multiplan (forerunner to Excel) came out.
1984 ….

Anyways the MS office suite is business 101.. so easy to use at home also

 

[Tagbert]

Oh my gosh. I recently had to do some work on a Word document with tables and formats. It seemed the location of some of the items in the tool bar kept changing. I'd need to start a bulleted list and sometimes it was there, sometimes it was hidden. Very annoying.

The toolbar is a series of panels with groups of tools/icons for specific functions in each. There is a set of “tabs” at the top of the editing window: Home, Insert, Draw, Design, Layout, Referneces, Mailings, Review, View. Tapping each will switch toolbar panels. There is another one, called Table Design, that appears when your cursor is within a table. The bullet functions are on the Home panel which is basic editing functions.

The number of functions is too great to show all of them in one panel so they switch panels depending on what you are doing. You can always click on Home to get the basic editing functions.

 

[MacBH928]

Simply, ODT is less likely to be corrupted than a DOCX file, and much, much more likely to become corrupted than a DOC file.

Most people wouldn't come across this because they deal with short (< 10 page) documents. However, if you have a long (> 100 page) document with many, many edits, DOCX and DOC files can become unreadable. I have had this happen so many times that I would save files as versions (V1, V2, ... etc) to make sure I could always go back to a working copy.
I have never, never, ever, ever had this happen with a ODT file.

The importance of stability is so important that ODT (technically ODF) is the obligatory file format for NATO.

Interesting, since MS Word DOCX is supposed to be the "PRO" choice.

I tried ODT and immediately hit compatibility issues. Apple Pages won't open it, and Google Translate won't accept it as an uploaded document but will accept PDF and DOCX.

]

 

[drrich2]

Way back when Microsoft Office was on the rise, a major selling point was the shared interface, where reasonably possible, across the apps. Word Processing heavily dominates as the most universally used app. A great many people working or recreating day in and day out at a computer with MS Office installed know hardly anything about using Excel or any other spreadsheet. Outside of a college class or similar, many don't use presentation software. Outlook is popular, but came later.

But for those employees, or home users, who only occasionally need to use one of the other apps, it's a nice selling point that, where possible, the menu and icon listings are consistent. Be mindful that way back when, many people hadn't grown up with personal computers. I'm an older Gen. X guy, and my high school graduation present was a Commodore 128 computer setup. In college I was introduced to IBM XTs, and learned on MS-DOS - I recall when Windows 3.0 was big! WordPerfect was the dominant word processor, having dethroned WordStar, and Word was the scrappy new player. WordPerfect was bundled with Quattro Pro and other apps to compete, but by then, the idea that MS Office had you covered and a 'designed that way from scratch' consistent interface caught on, plus Microsoft was such a strong brand, once it got behind something big time, that 'something' was likely going to dominate its niche (just ask Netscape or Lotus 1-2-3).

Some things are different today, but odds are that, from work or school, you already know how to use MS Word at a basic level, and maybe PowerPoint. Excel is a legend in spreadsheets. If people already know how to use Word, and it's readily available, many have little reason to research alternatives. It's also what they can expect to see elsewhere.

Learning a different app makes little sense unless you'll use it enough to make the learning curve worthwhile, and most users aren't power users. For what most people do with a word processor, Word handles it. The original question was why some keep using MS Office on Mac. Because they already know how, it's cross platform and everywhere and the recognized big brand name, and works fine for what they want or need to do.

You can be fairly assured that if you learn Microsoft Word today, it'll still be in use 10 or 15 years down the road. It's harder to assume that with Pages, Ami Pro (yeah, I bought that way back), WordPerfect, WordStar...

I know I'm mixing platforms (e.g.: Ami Pro and WordStar were Windows word processors).

 

[Eric Best]

People often neglect WordPerfect which is still used today.
It's still Much better than Word any day, esp. for long documents, formatting and editing, as it's still used in many professional firms, as those are still weaknesses in Word.
You'll have to pry WP from my hands!!
Lotus 123 was great and kicked Excel's butt in the early days but the defuncted company never bothered to keep up with MS Excel which lead Excel to be the spreadsheet leader it is today.
Sadly, too many people just 'use' MS Office without 'knowing' how to use it properly.
Google Docs stink and LibreOffice just can't match MS Office or WP.
You get what you pay for.. it's free, so there's that.
To be fair, MS did update MS Office for Mac so the functionality is closer to the Windows version but still lacking in some areas.

Yes, MrMojo1. If ever WP were to be released on Mac, or even be made compatible with Crossover / WINE, I would return to it in an instant. Just can't beat those Reveal Codes and sensible logic behind them!

 

[picpicmac]

having dethroned WordStar

Oh, the memories of the good old days.

 

[Arkstfan]

WordPerfect was the dominant word processor, having dethroned WordStar, and Word was the scrappy new player. WordPerfect was bundled with Quattro Pro and other apps to compete, but by then, the idea that MS Office had you covered and a 'designed that way from scratch' consistent interface caught on, plus Microsoft was such a strong brand, once it got behind something big time, that 'something' was likely going to dominate its niche (just ask Netscape or Lotus 1-2-3).

I entered law school in 1989. Remember the absolute pain of buying WordPerfect and getting a keyboard overlay for shortcuts. My uncle scoffed at why anyone would want to use anything other than Word Star because it was the best in his mind. No one was better at handling footnotes and special symbols and huge documents like WordPerfect. Even when Word was taking over the business community, the legal world was sticking by WordPerfect because it took time for Word to really become robust enough to take on WordPerfect for our tasks and then there was the whole friction involved in changing over with less the complete compatibility.

I have Microsoft Office on my M2 Mac because I caught a cheap license deal but I rarely open it. I used to do some work stuff and sneaker net or email it to work but that was when I had a desktop at work. Now with work from home, I've got a work computer here and never do any work related stuff on my personal machine.

I've moved to Numbers because my spreadsheet usage basically is rarely anything more than opening it every two weeks on pay day inputting the balances on credit cards and other bills to get a total for what I need to pay. Looking at my checking balances to see if I need to move any money from savings to checking or occasionally moving checking money to savings.

I occasionally need to write a letter. When I do continuing legal education classes some sponsors don't submit the certification to the state so I have to send it with a cover letter. Pages works well for the task and I have the envelope saved so I can easily print an envelope on at least the second try. I had to write a letter to my mortgage company to get them to endorse an insurance check over to me. Pages is great for these simple tasks.

I've never dived deep enough to assess whether Pages or Numbers are suitable for typical business tasks

 

[MrMojo1]

Yes, MrMojo1. If ever WP were to be released on Mac, or even be made compatible with Crossover / WINE, I would return to it in an instant. Just can't beat those Reveal Codes and sensible logic behind them!

Someone who gets it! 😁🤙
The younger generations don't get it.. Lotus 123 & WP were a good match for business & everyday tasks. WP for life!

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Do not knock WordStar. If it wasn't for WordStar, we wouldn't have Game of Thrones...

 

[Euroamerican]

First big corp I worked at back in the beginning of the 90s was doing green screen IBM terminals for the vast majority of people that actually needed a computer at their desks. Developers all did IBM MVS Cobol and needed no PC. There were a few PCs running Lotus 1-2-3 in accounting, but the cool VP types in IT had Macs. Why? Because of Excel.

They HAD to have Excel....... I'm sure those guys still HAVE to HAVE Excel and they will use Office over the Apple product every time.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

First big corp I worked at back in the beginning of the 90s was doing green screen IBM terminals for the vast majority of people that actually needed a computer at their desks. Developers all did IBM MVS Cobol and needed no PC. There were a few PCs running Lotus 1-2-3 in accounting, but the cool VP types in IT had Macs. Why? Because of Excel.

They HAD to have Excel....... I'm sure those guys still HAVE to HAVE Excel and they will use Office over the Apple product every time.

Excel is great, if you use it properly. Most people don't.
It is a spreadsheet, for calculations. It is not a database. It has database features so you can use them for analysis of data, but it is not a proper database. That is what Filemaker, and Access and MySQL are for.

 

[sracer]

Excel is great, if you use it properly. Most people don't.
It is a spreadsheet, for calculations. It is not a database. It has database features so you can use them for analysis of data, but it is not a proper database. That is what Filemaker, and Access and MySQL are for.

If by "proper database" you mean, "relational database", then you are correct. But there was a time when that wasn't the only type of database available.

Flat-file databases were once the database of choice for home and small business use. They were easy to design and easy to use. Sadly, they've fallen out of favor and are now a relic of the past (like me ). I miss Bento and AppleWorks on the Mac.

 

[jlc1978]

Some will point to Microsoft Word's mangling of ODF files as "proof" that it isn't a standard. But that is due to Microsoft's unwillingness to fully embrace an open standard and NOT because of any deficiencies in the ODF standard.

The challenge is, even if ODF is a better format, until it becomes much more popular better loses to "everyone else uses something else."

"LibreOffice just can't match MS Office or WP." What features is LO missing here.
Yes, MS Office is designed for an office, collaborative, business environment, but it is not appropriate for home or academic use. It is over-burdened with features that the home user doesn't need, yet is not capable of handling the complex documents that an academic may need to write.

Which is why you chose a program that meets your needs. For most home users and some business users, Apple's suite is more than enough to meet their needs; and really don't ned to buy Office or install LO.

I agree that "too many people just 'use' MS Office without 'knowing' how to use it properly." One study has found that over 60% of Excel spreadsheets used in business have errors in them, some fundamental.

I suspect a significant number of spreadsheets have errors in them no matter what program is used. LO, Numbers nor Excel can't prevent errors in calculation, references, etc.

Flat-file databases were once the database of choice for home and small business use. They were easy to design and easy to use.

They still are. I've created Excel files that are used in Word mail merge to make it easier to create documents student appraisals where there is a lot of duplicative information; so rather than cut and paste a simple spreadsheet, some edit and fill down and you have all the forms filled out in a fraction of the time it would take to do them one by one and cut and paste.

Sadly, they've fallen out of favor and are now a relic of the past (like me ). I miss Bento and AppleWorks on the Mac.

Bento was great, Apple should have kept developing it and made it part of the standard suite for Macs and iPads.

 

[BigDO]

Yes. Standardizing document formatting (consistent document elements like headers, lists, footnotes, etc.) is a good thing.
As for why many prefer LaTeX, there are a variety of reasons... some are technical, others are not.

LaTeX is all text. There are no hidden codes to control a word processor to do things like indenting, bolding, underlining, changing fonts, etc. It is a programming language of sorts for creating documents. The core of LaTex is a standard, but there are extensions for support for specialized use cases.

LaTeX transcends operating systems and computing platforms. If you have a text editor then you have what you need for creating documents. In some environments this is helpful for team collaboration where documents will need to be modified by different team members and document integrity needs to be ensured.

The problem (IMO) with LaTeX is as I said, it is too "heavy". The markup tokens (keywords) and syntax interfere with the readability of the source.

For example (the following formatted text and how it is coded in LaTeX)

Some of the greatest discoveries in science were made by accident.

Some of the \textbf{greatest} discoveries in \underline{science} were made by \textbf{\textit{accident}}.

For this reason, I never liked SGML and other document markup languages that followed like LaTeX.

That changed with the introduction of Markdown. Same principle, different implementation. Markdown is limited in the complexity of documents it can create, but the tokens and syntax are very light... just a few punctuation marks or characters.

I'm a fan of Markdown. It's one of the reasons why I shifted my personal knowledgebase to Joplin.

Many years ago, when doing my thesis, I remember LaTeX having a word-processor like GUI which was quite serviceable. Can’t remember what it was called.

 

[polyphenol]

Excel is great, if you use it properly. Most people don't.
It is a spreadsheet, for calculations. It is not a database. It has database features so you can use them for analysis of data, but it is not a proper database. That is what Filemaker, and Access and MySQL are for.

Access was beyond appalling!

Spent a while supporting an app which was underpinned by Access. And spent most of my time desperately trying to help resolve issues caused by Access.

When the app was reworked to use SQL (would need to double-check which version), it was pretty much bug-free. Which tended to prove the issues were related to the use of Access.