Why is Big Sur so ugly?

[nickdalzell1]

Funny as not that long ago people on all forums were clamoring for MS to keep XP going like, forever.

I still prefer BS over Catalina, if only for a much nicer dynamic wallpaper, functioning auto dark mode, and no more 80-90% CPU and fans running all the time. The more skeuo icons fit more with my skeuo app icons in the dock as well. Also like how the transparency works on the menu bar. No longer feels separate from the wallpaper anymore. Kinda how Android eventually made the notification area transparent vs. shifting content down to make it and the nav bar fit, causing burn-in on AMOLED displays too.

And what's so bad about KDE? In Linux, it's infinitely customizable and can look like anything, from Mac OS X to OS 9 to Windows whatever.

Only complaint I've had since coming back to Mac when Mojave came out was no ability to download additional dynamic wallpapers, you're basically stuck with whatver the OS offers. I hated the boring sand dune or I'd have stuck with Mojave and skipped Catalina entirely. Would be nice to use the dynamic wallpaper to depict weather conditions as well, since the only alternative is a third party app that is heavy on resource use and causes my Mac to become uncomfortably hot--as in 90 degrees Celcius hot.

 

[DNichter]

Don't love some of the icons, but I am sure they will grow on me. The rest is nice, I am not seeing what the issue is.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I'm just glad to see some skeuo return. Fixing the broken Catalina features is great, but I'm happy to see something that doesn't seem like Jony Ive designed them for once. I just wish iOS/iPadOS had the same treatment, as it's just rehashed iOS 7 icons, AGAIN. The Music icon is straight from iOS 7.

 

[retta283]

I'm just glad to see some skeuo return. Fixing the broken Catalina features is great, but I'm happy to see something that doesn't seem like Jony Ive designed them for once. I just wish iOS/iPadOS had the same treatment, as it's just rehashed iOS 7 icons, AGAIN. The Music icon is straight from iOS 7.

View attachment 1668118

It's not quite the same, the iOS 7 one has a slight orange gradient so the new one is actually even more flat and bland. I would like to see certain elements of skuemorphism return, something akin to Mac OS X Snow Leopard, where we had a nice balance. I don't need leather in my calendar, just some depth to the UI and more easily identifiable buttons... Big Sur fails on new proportions at providing this. Some of the new Big Sur elements are so blurry I have to get up close to tell where the clickable area begins.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I'm hoping the next named update after Big Sur doubles down more on the skeuo.

Personally, I loved the leather textures and chromed buttons, sliders, cover flow the works. It was one of those Apple things that made me want more from Apple. When they gave up, I went to Samsung for a bit, then now LG. LG's is still flat but is easier on my eyes, feels like classic TouchWiz UX otherwise.

But I'd be happy to see the nicer traffic lights, button shapes, and scroll bars return. I still preferred the previous Music icon though.

 

[fisherking]

as with every version of the OS... some people like it, some don't. so it goes. but i can't understand people who would avoid an OS because of the icon appearance, or the menubar; i use my mac to work, email, surf. isn't that priority over aesthetics (full disclosure: am enjoying th GUI, not that i spend time admiring it; i do my work, live my life, instead).

 

[retta283]

as with every version of the OS... some people like it, some don't. so it goes. but i can't understand people who would avoid an OS because of the icon appearance, or the menubar; i use my mac to work, email, surf. isn't that priority over aesthetics (full disclosure: am enjoying th GUI, not that i spend time admiring it; i do my work, live my life, instead).

Icons and menubar are somewhat silly reasons to avoid the upgrade (icons can be changed anyway) but the problem comes when clarity in UI elements is lacking, as it is for some of us. Buttons in Big Sur stand out much less, especially in Finder so it makes visibility overall harder for people of poor eyesight. So far it's not earth-shattering but it's an annoyance.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I can change icons for user apps but not system apps such as Music or Safari. I'd love to make them Snow Leopard style but Apple once again protects me from myself by not letting me swap them out like I did for Chrome and Firefox.

I'm not ready to brick my Mac by booting with hacky features such as turning off SiP since I have no idea what chaos would ensue should I attempt it. I just wish the apps that could theme MacOS didn't stop after Yosemite.

Windows 10 just being an admin user and taking ownership of Windows\System32 works but no such option as an admin on MacOS. You'd think it'd work like UNIX. You're root so you can do whatever the heck you want.

 

[retta283]

I can change icons for user apps but not system apps such as Music or Safari. I'd love to make them Snow Leopard style but Apple once again protects me from myself by not letting me swap them out like I did for Chrome and Firefox.

I wasn't aware this had changed. Is this the case even with SIP disabled?

 

[nickdalzell1]

I haven't tried it. I don't know what could happen with SiP off. I'm not ready to brick my $2K MacBook Pro. All I've attempted was to try changing permissions and entering my admin password for it to tell me 'it can't be done'.

In UNIX (which IIRC MacOS is) being admin/root you should be able to do whatever the heck you want, including bricking the system. But in MacOS, it's like I'm sitting at an $ prompt vs. a #. Like I'm not really the root/admin at all.

 

[tkermit]

Only complaint I've had since coming back to Mac when Mojave came out was no ability to download additional dynamic wallpapers, you're basically stuck with whatver the OS offers.

24 Hour Wallpaper has an option to generate native Dynamic Desktops. Works very well and doesn't require you to keep the app running in the background.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Don't you have to take like a ton of shots of the same scene like a timelapse to make that work? I just want the option to buy/download more dynamic wallpapers, or better yet, make some of the previous static wallpapers dynamic like the High Sierra or Yosemite one. Also that app stops working at Catalina. I am not interested in downgrading to use it. No mention of Big Sur support, but still the default Big Sur background works nicely. If I were still using Mojave I'd consider it though.

 

[Mr Todhunter]

I wasn't aware this had changed. Is this the case even with SIP disabled?

Yes it is

 

[tkermit]

Don't you have to take like a ton of shots of the same scene like a timelapse to make that work? I just want the option to buy/download more dynamic wallpapers, or better yet, make some of the previous static wallpapers dynamic like the High Sierra or Yosemite one. Also that app stops working at Catalina. I am not interested in downgrading to use it. No mention of Big Sur support, but still the default Big Sur background works nicely. If I were still using Mojave I'd consider it though.

The app works fine on Big Sur fwiw. Maybe try out one of the three free Dynamic Desktops they offer:
https://www.jetsoncreative.com/mojave (scroll down a bit on that page)

 

[nickdalzell1]

Well I suppose turning off SiP would accomplish nothing after all. I worried enough about it bricking the Mac so now knowing it would accomplish nothing means I don't have to bother with it at all. Still doesn't solve the problem of me preferring the older Music/iTunes icon over the iOS 7 red one coming back.

Thanks but the three free ones aren't my taste. I'm a huge nature lover so I would more appreciate a forest scene or some type of live wallpaper depicting weather without running the fans full hilt and me sitting with a 90+C laptop burning my lap. I'd buy the app if I could guarantee support for Big Sur, as just it running doesn't mean compatible. I've run into issues with some apps that run but make everything run very hot/eat the CPU like my antivirus app and a few of my older apps I had to uninstall. I can't even use Amazon Music lately as it keeps calling it a 'dangerous app'.

 

[Mr Todhunter]

In UNIX (which IIRC MacOS is) being admin/root you should be able to do whatever the heck you want, including bricking the system. But in MacOS, it's like I'm sitting at an $ prompt vs. a #. Like I'm not really the root/admin at all.

With Apple no matter if you're admin/root, you're still considered an imbecile, who could destroy the perfection of their system.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Well, same setup with Windows 10 but at least I can override it via taking ownership of the folders in queastion--in fact that's how you delete Cortana and Windows Update.

You'd think the 'Pro' in MacBook Pro would mean something though.

Doesn't it violate some SCO UNIX license to mess with root level permissions though? I mean Linux got in trouble multiple times by implementing UNIX style code? Why is Apple always exempt?

 

[CasualFanboy]

It seems like Apple wants to be the KDE of Mac.

How could anyone be so thoroughly wrong?

KDE is unparalleled in giving you the power to make it anything you want it to be. Apple? Well..... they seem to come up with new and inventive ways to punish customization or make it completely impossible.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Anyone remember the days when Apple actually encouraged creativity? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Anyone remember the days when Apple actually encouraged creativity? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Apple as we knew it died when Steve Jobs died. It just happened a little more slowly. It's a shell of what it was, and Tim Cook is a curious mixture of 100% woke socjus / 0% creativity. Actually it's not curious or interesting at all, beyond making me wonder how in the hell he was ever promoted to CEO of anything.

 

[fisherking]

Icons and menubar are somewhat silly reasons to avoid the upgrade (icons can be changed anyway) but the problem comes when clarity in UI elements is lacking, as it is for some of us. Buttons in Big Sur stand out much less, especially in Finder so it makes visibility overall harder for people of poor eyesight. So far it's not earth-shattering but it's an annoyance.

have you checked out options in the accessibilty pane in system preferences? (not that you should have to).

 

[nickdalzell1]

Add in the 'it just works' isn't true anymore, after having rebooted my Apple TV 4K three times this weekend because it randomly freezes or stops playing content for no apparent reason. Also my iPhone 6S stopped wanting to send SMS texts to my girl, so now I'm getting far better luck from my LG phone.

There's nothing to replace my MBP with on the Windows side. No way I'm paying twice the cost to get an HP Spectre with half the specs of my Mac. Seriously what makes that stupid thing so expensive when the identical Envy next to it with better specs, a superior GPU, and more RAM costs half the price?!

Most Youtube watching is being done via the stock browser on a Samsung Note tablet from 2013, that works far better than attempting to use the same site on my Mac. Something keeps making it heat up.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Add in the 'it just works' isn't true anymore

Standards and accountability lead to potential failures. Failures hurt people's feelings, so we can't be doing that. What really matters is that "under-represented groups" were able to participate and "have their voices heard."

There's nothing to replace my MBP with on the Windows side.

Well that's the thing, isn't it? Windows is just a bad platform for the type of work I do. My personal opinion is that it's a bad platform period, but that's subjective. Fortunately Linux has gotten a lot better, so the sacrifices I might have to make won't be unbearable if I decide to split from MacOS for good at some point.

Most Youtube watching is being done via the stock browser on a Samsung Note tablet from 2013

The one thing that is still far superior on my MacBook Pro when compared to other laptops is the sound quality. But I could customize my own if it comes to that. Speakers are not a sufficient justification by themselves to continue paying for something that continues to dwindle in quality.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I always use headphones anyway. I could never imagine my laptop blasting music to everyone around me in most situations I find myself using it in. I always hated when going on a hike in the woods some moron has to have their bluetooth speaker around their shoulder blasting away modern pop and ruining the whole point of a nature hike.

No speakers on any device will ever compare to a good set of headphones. Doesn't matter if it's the stereo speakers of my Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 or the tinny little thing on my LG Stylo 5.

I'm going to find a way to make my games play well on Linux one day. So far the best I can do is have alpha texture glitches, or zero anti-aliasing, or having Fallout 4 act like it's running on an i486. Until that changes, it's Windows 10 OFFLINE. I keep a Windows 10 laptop only because games like Portal 2 and Half Life 2 are no longer playable due to Apple killing 32-bit support for no reason, so, in the words of GLaDOS, 'Thanks for that!' [sarcasm self test completed!]

 

[nanoant]

as with every version of the OS... some people like it, some don't. so it goes. but i can't understand people who would avoid an OS because of the icon appearance, or the menubar; i use my mac to work, email, surf. isn't that priority over aesthetics (full disclosure: am enjoying th GUI, not that i spend time admiring it; i do my work, live my life, instead).

Apparently to Apple the aesthetics is the number one priority. Otherwise https://www.apple.com/macos/big-sur/ wouldn't be mostly about new UI bringing even more "magic". But it is. So it is Apple who creates such priorities, not us. So please don't be surprised that people are discussing it, as by the way there is not much to be discussed besides that. And please stop bashing people for discussing UI, in the end it is what you see for many hours of your everyday life.

I wish Apple had different priorities though and would not be putting most of its software engineering resources to redoing UI all over again every freaking 2-3 years. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Catalina UI. But Apple is money driven corporation and it looks like (at least for Apple's marketing and sales) that doing UI that looks nice on screenshots is what sells and what makes a reason to call BigSur new major macOS release.

Times when Apple was talking about new technologies like when Snow Leopard came out (e.g. OpenCL, GCD) are far gone. Only M1 is exceptional, as it is really a new quality in terms of the CPU performance, but besides that, Apple is IMHO hardly innovative these days.