Why is Big Sur so ugly?

[zakarhino]

What benefit to Mac OS was there in taking the dashboard away? That's another change for change's sake that made no sense. Eventually the UI should be left alone, just as cars have four wheels and such, it shouldn't change just for the sake of it. Why reinvent the wheel?

The symptom of making computers "for everyone" was that computers became less about "computing" and more about aesthetics and ease of use for the mundane actions that most people use computers for (multimedia, browsing, social media). It's more important to change the sheen of the OS than it is to fundamentally innovate by creating new software and systems to make us better problem solvers. Even most "hot" enterprise products these days are just old paradigms wrapped up in a new shiny outfit with some basic cloud sensibilities (Slack, AirTable, Notion, etc.)

 

[nickdalzell1]

Well, all it accomplished is making me not want to buy anything new, and keeping older devices and disabling all updates. Because a device that's boring, sterile, retina-searing to look at, feels like work, isn't what I wanted. If I wanted such a device I'd go back to my Nokia 5185i or a StarTAC. I want to have the fun back. No one seems to be catering to my and other's preferences. We're just supposed to take what we're given these days. No company wants to actually listen to their customers. We've become far too complacent lately. This whole 'dumbing down for the masses' I knew would end badly back in 2013. All the solutions can be found in a 'For Dummies' book, not by taking the fun and life out of an OS or app or website.

I always buy books to learn each device I use, because not only is reading the manual a good idea (and one I've grown up with) but you tend to find things about your new device you never knew it could do. I've probably learned a lot more about 3D touch from a For Dummies book than being expected to find out by accident, the way Apple expects.

I still think if people kept wanting to learn, we wouldn't suffer this homogenized boring crap. We as a people seem less and less interested in learning, and thinking, it seems. Eventually those of us who like being geeks can't have our needs met. I don't want a LeapPad, I bought an iPad for crying out loud!

My way of thinking, "IT's great to learn, because knowledge is power!"

Gosh, Schoolhouse Rock feels like an eternity ago.

2009-14 felt like the future. 2019-21 feels like we're going back to the 80s. Even the logos from Burger King and Pizza Hut have gone back to the 80s. I know the 80s had some great TV and music, but I don't want to go back to the 80s!

 

[Jamalien]

40 pages in of arguing. I'm here to bring the unity:

We can all agree the move to square icons on mac is ugly, functionally regressive, and unnecessary, right?

40 pages of free entertainment

 

[nickdalzell1]

These threads wouldn't exist if Apple or others left certain things alone. Improve security, privacy, and add features. Don't take features away that no one asked you do (headphone jack, etc) and don't unnecessarily flatten the UI because you ran out of ideas. Eventually it's best to leave well enough alone. Focus on bugs, security. Not change for change's sake.

Not a hard thing to grasp. It might have been awhile since I was in Economics class, but companies are supposed to respond to consumer demand. Not change something and, when criticized, just respond 'get used to it, you curmudgeon!'

At one time, that attitude would put your business under. It's just dumb luck that it hasn't come to bite Apple or others in the arse.

 

[Jamalien]

It’s a fine balance between prevailing consumer demand and pushing new ideas. If Apple’s decisions were dictated by customer mob rule, then nothing would progress. Tho Apple recently tends to making brash decisions for the sake of it.

 

[nickdalzell1]

They've been making decisions for the sake of it for a long time. I don't like it.

What's happening lately isn't really progress, it's regression. We're looking at a Flat UI that harks back to the early computing days. Makes no sense to me. Meanwhile we're getting bugs and more bugs, something once thought as normal for Android, not Apple devices. The 'it just works' mantra is not as relevant today as it was when Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall were at the helm. Also, many people are just complacent today and accept what they're given even if they don't like it. The responses I often see are 'just get used to it' or 'you'll accept it given enough time'

Well, sure, I guess if my home was located next to brand new constructed sewer or pig farm, I'd just get used to the smell and not notice it, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. If one has to adjust to it, it's not done right in the first place. If the change were really a good thing, it would be accepted out the gate. Otherwise, when customers complain, you as a company should change it back. At least, until you perfect said change. Or give the option to not have the change and please more people.

I don't want to accept or tolerate something that makes the experience worse for me. If the previous version worked perfectly fine just leave it alone. Of course, with me disabling updates, and barring future purchases until skeuo returns, I'm no longer vulnerable to this issue. I've done what I could to undo some of Big Sur's changes but now I'm pretty much left with a better Mojave. I would love if I could go to Mountain Lion's UI and apps. Would love to go to a iPhone 3GS again even if it meant losing Apple Watch. That UI was second to none. (of course, If I got a cellular Watch I could have both 3GS and Apple Watch if I set up the watch first with my 6S)

One day I'll get an older Mac running what I want, and an older iPhone. Until then, I'll do what I can to keep the skeuo and enjoyment of owning an Apple product going.

Other than AirPods Pro, nothing Apple or anyone is doing today makes me want to go out and buy it.

 

[fisherking]

It’s a fine balance between prevailing consumer demand and pushing new ideas. If Apple’s decisions were dictated by customer mob rule, then nothing would progress. Tho Apple recently tends to making brash decisions for the sake of it.

first 2 sentences, am with you. then there's this: "Apple recently tends to making brash decisions for the sake of it." which, am hoping you don't really believe. a corporation that works like that? if you say so...

 

[CasualFanboy]

for those wanting to remove the big sur ugly new ui refresh and restore previous good looking theme, there's a new solution that works even better than previous tweaks i reported before in this thread.
it's using macforge and the paintcan plugin.

Damn, that's some King posting right there man. Thanks. This is really going to come in handy if I ever am forced to use Big Sur.

Right now I'll just stick around a while.

 

[CasualFanboy]

first 2 sentences, am with you. then there's this: "Apple recently tends to making brash decisions for the sake of it." which, am hoping you don't really believe. a corporation that works like that? if you say so...

Time to update your firmware. These days, corporations like Apple often do things that seem counterintuitive to previous expectations. Taking ideological and frivolous positions has become the norm. And when you're talking about a company with as much money as Apple has, any loss in goodwill among a "dying consumer demographic (traditionally minded people)" is well worth the cost.

 

[fisherking]

Time to update your firmware. These days, corporations like Apple often do things that seem counterintuitive to previous expectations. Taking ideological and frivolous positions has become the norm. And when you're talking about a company with as much money as Apple has, any loss in goodwill among a "dying consumer demographic (traditionally minded people)" is well worth the cost.

if you say so... ...

 

[nickdalzell1]

That's another thing I've noticed. No company seems interested in catering to anyone over the age of 30 these days. Sometimes I wonder where the real inspiration behind iOS 7 and Yosemite+ came from. I originally blamed Microsoft after Windows 8 in 2012, but perhaps I'm mistaken? Perhaps Apple looked at the market and noticed a ton of folks bought LeapPads and maybe, just maybe, LeapPads outsold iPads in 2013, and making the UI resemble a LeapPad sold more iPads?

Would explain why today it seems like kids and teens are the primary demographic. I have been told on countless forums and Google+ while it were a thing, that "You're not their customer!"

Technically, I am. I'm not dead yet! So long as I remain physically and mentally capable of walking into a store (or going online) and buying a product that interests me, I remain a customer. But it does make one wonder, doesn't it?

I don't really understand why the 13-20 year old age group are so important though. I can understand not betting your brand on selling to folks over the age of 96, but teens and young adults, and declaring actual adults over 30 irrelevant? What's that about?

 

[fisherking]

That's another thing I've noticed. No company seems interested in catering to anyone over the age of 30 these days. Sometimes I wonder where the real inspiration behind iOS 7 and Yosemite+ came from. I originally blamed Microsoft after Windows 8 in 2012, but perhaps I'm mistaken? Perhaps Apple looked at the market and noticed a ton of folks bought LeapPads and maybe, just maybe, LeapPads outsold iPads in 2013, and making the UI resemble a LeapPad sold more iPads?

Would explain why today it seems like kids and teens are the primary demographic. I have been told on countless forums and Google+ while it were a thing, that "You're not their customer!"

Technically, I am. I'm not dead yet! So long as I remain physically and mentally capable of walking into a store (or going online) and buying a product that interests me, I remain a customer. But it does make one wonder, doesn't it?

I don't really understand why the 13-20 year old age group are so important though. I can understand not betting your brand on selling to folks over the age of 96, but teens and young adults, and declaring actual adults over 30 irrelevant? What's that about?

more humor? (sorry, more endless humor?). i'm over 30, (practically) everyone i know is over 30. and most use macs, and most love their macs, and many are on big sur. but don't let that stop you from posting another dozen posts about... the same thing....

 

[Tozovac]

I also wish, Apple would go back to this:
View attachment 927962
Now THAT is a "professional" look!

(I am being sarcastic, btw 😉)

Ironically, much of Big Sur unfortunately looks like this. The Mail app is way, way too white/monochromatic and flat throughout, which increases cognitive load and prevents things like quickly (almost subconsciously) recognizing different folders/subfolders and functional areas. It’s like living in a house with white and textureless walls, floors, ceilings, cabinets, curtains, furniture, appliances, and even pictures on the wall etc. The tiny fractions of seconds from the additional work it takes to locate something that’s essentially hidden in plain sight amongst the surrounding area really starts to add up after five minutes. Many steps backwards away from efficient, intuitive (and attractively interesting) design that used to feel like it’s thinking for you now makes you have to think harder.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Oddly enough, going with the theory of 'regressing to the 80s and beyond!' most interior design is going for the 'farm' look or the 50's aesthetic (right down to the spiderey torchiere lamps). Logos for fast food restaurants (Burger King and Pizza Hut particularly) have revived the 70s-80s look. Computer and phone UI design is taking its lessons from the 80s graphics era of flat design.

I know what's old is new again but this is ridiculous! I want the future back!

So far, the only future looking anything is in car design, and especially the infotainment UIs. Still feels like 2012 there! Glossy icons, buttons which look like buttons, even sound effects. It's like the good ol'e TouchWiz era never ended!

One remnant of the past I wouldn't mind returning are those awesome multiplex entertainment centres. Those pieces of furniture that hide a 6-speaker stereo, phonograph, and 25" color TV and even 8-track player. I missed out on that because I missed the glory of the '70s by a few years!

I also missed one cool piece of tech from the 80s--the Zenith Space Screen '45. Still looks cool! If we're stuck going to the 80s again, why not go all the way! Give me some of those awesome stereos with animated graphic EQs and vac fluorescent displays man!

 

[iHorseHead]

Weird. I think Big Sur is quite nice and beautiful.

 

[opeter]

Guys like (nickdalzell1) are just getting older and depressed... there is no need to deal with them. It is not worth your time.

For the masses, Big Sur is more than good enough. If they weren’t, Apple's computers wouldn’t be selling.

 

[Feyl]

Guys like (nickdalzell1) are just getting older and depressed... there is no need to deal with them. It is not worth your time.

For the masses, Big Sur is more than good enough. If they weren’t, Apple's computers wouldn’t be selling.

More than good enough was never a motto at Apple. It looks like it is now but that's not good enough for me. I'm 27 years old.

 

[Tozovac]

For the masses, Big Sur is more than good enough. If they weren’t, Apple's computers wouldn’t be selling.

Honestly, it’s more like: For enough customers, some of Big Sur’s shortcomings (re: Apple’s regressions from function-first fashion-second in their interfaces) aren’t enough to scare away those embedded in Apple’s ecosystem. Windows is still not good enough to sway us away and/or prevent newcomers from wanting to try something better than Windows.

That’s a lot different from the days (2005-2013 for me) when Apple’s computers (and interfaces) weren’t just more than good enough, they were so much more advanced, subjectively better, and aesthetically differentiated over Windows. Then: unquestionably great (due to function) that was the unquestionably best (and only) option for many of us vs. Windows. Now: questionably still acceptable as the better option over Windows.

 

[svanstrom]

Honestly, it’s more like: For enough customers, some of Big Sur’s shortcomings (re: Apple’s regressions from function-first fashion-second in their interfaces) aren’t enough to scare away those embedded in Apple’s ecosystem.

Am I the only one that mostly just use the apps, and as such care more about what's inside those than how the OS itself looks and feels?

Give me a decent virtual display/spaces implementation, a functional top bar (with dark mode), and I'm good (as far as the look and feel of the OS).

Personally I for years also have had at least the desktop turned off/hidden (it used to be that I had Finder off); and most moving and rename of files either happens in the apps themselves, or I use the terminal.

 

[Tozovac]

Am I the only one that mostly just use the apps, and as such care more about what's inside those than how the OS itself looks and feels?

Give me a decent virtual display/spaces implementation, a functional top bar (with dark mode), and I'm good (as far as the look and feel of the OS).

Personally I for years also have had at least the desktop turned off/hidden (it used to be that I had Finder off); and most moving and rename of files either happens in the apps themselves, or I use the terminal.

I’m probably just doing a bad job explaining my gripes. It’s the issues with “what’s inside” that is my biggest gripe. In fact, you mention Spaces - a major gripe for me is that OS no longer instantly shows a miniature version of each screen up top when you call out Spaces - instead it’s just grey squares. you have to do extra work and swipe one more time just to see what each desktop/space looks like in order to understand what you’re working with and then to get to the Space you want. That’s my biggest gripe with OS/iOS since around 2013, things are made a bit more flat/white/grey/minimalist to where “what’s inside” each app isn’t as “easy and quick and intuitive” to use as before.

 

[Seanm87]

Its just a UI, who the hell cares? You can usually customise a lot of it anyway.

As long as it works just use it and get on with your life.

 

[Tozovac]

Its just a UI, who the hell cares? You can usually customise a lot of it anyway.

As long as it works just use it and get on with your life.

Man, you just don’t get it. Or you are way, way more advanced than some of us. Until OS becomes a screenless, thought-activated system like the brain, the visual UI is everything. That’s ok, glad it works perfectly for you.

 

[CasualFanboy]

More than good enough was never a motto at Apple. It looks like it is now but that's not good enough for me. I'm 27 years old.

Apple's new slogan: "Good enough for the masses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

 

[Tozovac]

Apple's new slogan: "Good enough for the masses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

Or - good enough to sell enough to achieve the required revenue growth and shareholder expectations.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Its just a UI, who the hell cares?

I care about the way I interact with a computer and what I have to process visually for many hours per day.

You can usually customise a lot of it anyway.

False. Apple has deliberately become notoriously difficult to customize.

As long as it works just use it and get on with your life.

We can do both - voice our displeasure while getting on with life.