iPhone 15 Pro Max Why so many media spread false information about the iPhone cameras?

[random person]

Petapixel has a great vid on 15 pro and pro max.
They are real photographers, and they have both phones in hand.
Wish I could figure out how to share the link but it is worth a YouTube search to see it.
Btw I am a pro photographer and I use the iPhone for snaps but that’s it.

 

[vinegarshots]

Here's the 3X S23 Optical Zoom vs Iphone 15 Pro Max 3X digital zoom. Not as much of a difference as you would think TBH

 

[kc9hzn]

or maybe the IP15 could have done something someone else did already. It’s called “the optical zoom”

But hey at least we had a rumor that the ne IP15 Ultra should had it….. so maybe we don’t have to wait for IP19 and the solution is already much closer ;-). Let’s wait for the IP16 Ultra.

I think you might have missed my joke, which I think might’ve been a little too subtle for my own good. I was joking about my own upgrade cycle (which is on the slow side) and joking about a missing focal length (one that would probably cause worse distortion than the lack of 3x on the iPhone 15 Pro Max).

I tried deliberately introducing an overly silly name for the phone 4 years from now to make the joke a little more obvious (“iPhone 19 Pro Max Deluxe mk2”). And now that I’ve explained it, it’s lost any humor value. Oh well, it probably says something about Apple naming conventions that my attempt at an overly silly Apple name wasn’t too obviously overly silly.

 

[kc9hzn]

As long you use 0.5x 1x and 5x its the same or better (especially compared to 5x on you 13PM).
If you use sth else between 3x and 5x it’s worse.

I think the question was in comparison to the iPhone 13. Would zoom levels between 3x and 5x be worse than the same zoom level on an iPhone 13? Unless the iPhone 13 had, say, a 4x lens, it probably wouldn’t be any worse, surely?

 

[ab2c4]

Now that I have learned some very basic things today, and was telling my wife about it tonight and brought up this question:

If the 15 Pro Max has .5x, 1x, 2x and 5x, would it be possible for a future phone to have .5x, 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x and 5x?

 

[sstiwari]

Now that I have learned some very basic things today, and was telling my wife about it tonight and brought up this question:

If the 15 Pro Max has .5x, 1x, 2x and 5x, would it be possible for a future phone to have .5x, 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x and 5x?

Absolutely, but you would need 6 physical lenses on the back for true optical zoom.

 

[cibonak]

I'll try to explain everything here, it's not that complicated.

You have 3 cameras on you phone:

- The ultra wide (13mm): this year is exactly the same, no changes.
- The main camera (24mm): this year is exactly the same, no changes. During the presentation apple tried to sell some "changes" as new but no, it's exactly the same camera with some software updates that were ALSO added on the iphone 14.
- The tele (77mm on pro and 120mm on pro max): This is new on the pro max and a little bit better on the pro (because the sensor is a little bit bigger than the tele on the 14pro).

So to be short, this year the cameras on the iphones were NOT updated in any way with the exception of the tele on the pro max and a slightly bigger sensor on the pro.

Now, let's try to understand how this works.

- Optical zoom is, in fact, the wrong word. Optical zoom means that if you have a 20-50mm lens (for example) the lenses will move and let you shoot at every focal between 20 and 50mm. This is NOT the case on smartphones. On smartphones you have only the 20 and the 50mm as 2 separate cameras and when you zoom between those 2 you are just cropping the image of the previous one (so if you have a 20 and 50mm and you shoot at 30, you are only digitally cropping the 20).
-new 120mm. Here it's really important to understand something. 120mm ARE NOT better or worse than the 77mm. It's just a different focal lenght. Some people are saying that is worse because 77mm is more close to what you could need everyday (for portrait for example) and 120mm is too far for a generic use. So you will actually end up having less possibilities than before. This is why some people are even choosing the normal 15 pro because they don't want the 120mm.

You have to keep in mind that as explained smartphones don't have optical zoom. When you have 3 cameras you can only shoot with those 3 focal lenght and as explained everything in between is just a crop.
In the past iphones had a 13mm, a 26mm and a 55mm. That was, at least in my opinion, the best setup because the space between those focal lenght is not too big so the digital zoom in between was "usable". That was already stretched a lot when they went from 55 to 77 for the tele, bringing the difference between the last 2 cameras on more than 40mm.

Now it's even worse, the main camera is a 24mm and the tele is a 120mm. You have almost 100mm of nothing in between and the digital zoom CANNOT compensate 100mm difference. This is why a lot of smartphones with 10x cameras ALSO maintain the 3x. To have something in the middle.

A lot of people i know are going with the 15pro and not the pro max exactly for this reason.

If you need a 120mm then the one on the iphone 15 pro max is definitely GOOD because they were able to maintain an aperture of 2.8 that is HUGE for a 120mm. But like i said, it's not better or worse than other camera, it's better if you need a 120mm, it could be worse than a 77mm if you don't need to shoot at 5x.

I habe an iphone 12 and imwant tu upgrade for an iphone 15 ....
will i see good updates?

thx a lot

 

[cibonak]

i’m always surprised that people want to deny facts….
Is there any doubt that the IP15PM has a 120mm fixed prime lens instead of the 77mm prime lens it had before? Its announced in the keynote by apple, it is written on their pages… so what do you mean with ”thin air”?
Are there any hints it could be different?
If you make a photo on 100mm digital zoom from a 24mm fixed prime lens the zoom factor is 4x. It means 1/16 of the sensor surface and 3MP of the 48MP.

These are facts which are true since decades. Everyone who knows anything about cameras know that and would never deny it even the biggest apple fanboy.
And it is something you can test yourself with every iphone on the market. The only thing which has to be proven is if apple used the same sony sensors like last year or not. But this was never questioned in this topic.

That the IP15Pro has better quality on focal lenghts like 77mm compared to the IP15 ProMax is a fact based on physics. Which are by the way true on every other iphone as well…
And it has nothing to do to be an expert or not. A photo which is digital cropped will loose quality no matter what magic technology is used. There is no photographer in the world who would deny that.

Which camera do you suggest me to buy under 1000$ with gooz zoom?
im a newbie.... thx!

 

[kc9hzn]

I habe an iphone 12 and imwant tu upgrade for an iphone 15 ....
will i see good updates?

thx a lot

Posts like this are exactly why this thread is actually more useless than helpful and why marketing doesn’t and shouldn’t get into technical weeds.

To address this poster’s concern, you’re coming from an iPhone 12. There will almost certainly be improvements for the camera module for you. I believe the sensor has changed between the iPhone 12 and 15 (let alone 15 Pro and Pro Max), and, even if it hadn’t and the lenses remained the same, the processor improvements (especially with regards to the Neural Engine and AI workflows) would still deliver perceived quality improvements.

But we can see from this that this discussion is making non-tech-savvy and non-photography-savvy question whether the iPhone 15 is suit for purpose, especially when they’re on a longer than annual upgrade cycle. (It almost certainly will be for non-photographers and casual photographers, especially from a 3 or 4, or older, year old phone.) Considering how non-photography-savvy people use camera phones, this heavy technical discussion and the confusion it’s caused is exactly why Apple doesn’t get into the weeds of technical discussions when it comes to the camera module.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Am I right in thinking that the point being argued here is that with the iPhone 15 Pro Max there's more range or scope for digital zoom (and thus for poorer quality) for shots in the relatively large range between the fixed 24mm and the fixed 120mm (larger than the range in the Pro, which would be between the fixed 24mm and the fixed 77mm) ?

I think it’s because Apple included things like this in their marketing.
“Through a deep integration of hardware and software, the advanced camera systems on iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max both pack the equivalent of seven pro lenses”

Which, I now think was kind of a masterstroke. They could have hedged it in any number of ways, but I wouldn’t doubt that this particular “equivalent of” wording was used so that even people who don’t like and have no plan to acquire the iPhone will feel compelled to tell other people why it’s not seven lenses… even though Apple didn’t even SAY it was seven lenses. Talking about the iPhone, in whatever circles of the internet a person is in is just communicating to an ever wider group that “A new iPhone is coming”.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I decided to watch this review with subtitles and while he points out the weaknesses of the camera pro max at 77mm compared to the pro, he had to pixel peep in quite a lot on his iPad to get the images you see above, and once you realise that then it’s not a total disaster. It also worth watching the review as he also compare the 15 pro zoomed to 120mm compared to the 15 pro max and the 15 pro looks like the 15 pro max at 77mm. He concludes his review by say that the 15 pro and pro max are both good and fun to use.

A few reviews I’ve watched said the same. The quality dips, but not in a way that a causal person will care about, since getting the shot (and very likely sharing on some social media which is going to CRUSH all the pixel peeping detail out of it). And a hobbyist/enthusiast will still be able to get better pixel peeping purpose images by having a stronger understanding about how it all works.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I just want to know will the pictures I take on my new iPhone 15PM be better, the same, or worse overall than my regular iPhone 13?

They will be better. Actually, across ALL the types of images that you’ve ever taken with your camera, this one will be better. I would be hard pressed to imagine a scenario where you could take a picture side by side with your regular iPhone 13 and iPhone 15PM and you’d prefer the regular 13. EVEN if you use everything between 3x and 5x, the 15PM is going to be better.

 

[DaveXX]

EVEN if you use everything between 3x and 5x, the 15PM is going to be better.

Its not true. I have my 15Pro Max and 13 Pro max side by side. And if i take a shot between 3x and 5x its crystal clear that the iphone 15PM is worse. The picture on the 15PM get noticable more blurry. If i use 5x and above it gets much better on the 15PM as expected.
But just to clarify… its not that difference you can see by a mile. It wouldn‘t hold me back to use the photos on social media.

For me its like taking glasses on and off. I don‘t even have to zoom in. Doesn‘t mean the ip15PM result is unusable or bad but definitely not better.

 

[Icealicy]

i think not everyone has an understanding about cameras. i would just wish that pages like macrumors clarify and explain that problem.
Especially for ppl who want to know the difference between normal, pro and pro max its very important to explain the difference. Instead they are talking about improved 120mm and optical zoom which is misleading.
I see in hundreds youtube videos as well praising this “huge” upgrade e.g. “photographers opinion about the great camera upgrade…
I found just one singe youtube video of an actual photographer which is explaining the differences… nearly all other ppl are just repeating apples marketing **** without even thinking about that.

Yup you’re right. Where’s yaybay on this? Lmao. She touts everything and supports apple to each end. Lmao.

 

[Torty]

Its not true. I have my 15Pro Max and 13 Pro max side by side. And if i take a shot between 3x and 5x its crystal clear that the iphone 15PM is worse. The picture on the 15PM get noticable more blurry. If i use 5x and above it gets much better on the 15PM as expected.
But just to clarify… its not that difference you can see by a mile. It wouldn‘t hold me back to use the photos on social media.

For me its like taking glasses on and off. I don‘t even have to zoom in. Doesn‘t mean the ip15PM result is unusable or bad but definitely not better.

So 15PM:
5X: Much better
3X: Not a difference you can see by a mile

Speaks for the 15PM.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Its not true. I have my 15Pro Max and 13 Pro max side by side. And if i take a shot between 3x and 5x its crystal clear that the iphone 15PM is worse. The picture on the 15PM get noticable more blurry. If i use 5x and above it gets much better on the 15PM as expected.
But just to clarify… its not that difference you can see by a mile. It wouldn‘t hold me back to use the photos on social media.

For me its like taking glasses on and off. I don‘t even have to zoom in. Doesn‘t mean the ip15PM result is unusable or bad but definitely not better.

They said their other phone was a regular iPhone 13. As that one has only digital zoom up to 5x, I’m thinking the 15 Pro Max has got to provide a better image side by side.

Thanks for providing the images of the 13PM side by side with the 15PM. I agree, like you said, that there’s a difference, but it doesn’t mean the picture’s unusable which to me is still pretty impressive.

 

[hieubui]

I ordered a 15PM because I want the newest phone with 120hz screen and big battery and Apple just doesn’t give me any other option. Couldn’t care less about the camera.

Phone cameras are **** all the same because of small sensor and low quality lens. There’s no way around that!

 

[DaveXX]

Phone cameras are **** all the same because of small sensor and low quality lens. There’s no way around that!

For me the best camera is the one you have with you. A long time i was running around all the time with my A7R and GM lenses. But since my daugther was born the only camera i had with me was my iPhone (except for planned shootings). So i‘m happy that you can get a descent quality on the phones.

 

[DaveXX]

double

 

[cibonak]

I quoted you in my last post

 

[DaveXX]

Which camera do you suggest me to buy under 1000$ with gooz zoom?
im a newbie.... thx!

One of the best compact high zoom cameras i know is the Sony RX10 (24mm-600mm). But there are many alternatives based on your needs especially with interchangeable lenses.

 

[Megakazbek]

For most people "zoom" is synonymous with "magnification". 5x optical zoom means 5x optical magnification, which is pretty correct.
For photographers, "zoom" implies a special kind of movable lens which can provide a continuous range of magnification levels, but ordinary people don't care if it's continuous or fixed, it's just what magnification level you can get.

Now one could say that people use the word "zoom" incorrectly in this sense, but my opinion is that human language is dynamic and words often become attached to different meanings over time. It's useless to guard words as sacred and fight against people starting to use it in a different sense. Better strategy is to just accept that "zoom" has also become to mean "magnification" and does not imply a movable lens of any kind.

 

[DaveXX]

Better strategy is to just accept that "zoom" has also become to mean "magnification" and does not imply a movable lens of any kind.

The problem is its not a 5x magnification. 5x zoom is here based on the 24mm prime lens. So it refers to 5x optical zoom based on the 24mm and this would mean in the world of photography exactly what it should mean. An optical zoom with nearly infinite steps and no quality loss between 24mm and 120mm.
Apple even mention in some documents 10x optical zoom because they based it on the ultra wide lens (13mm). And here you can see that the confusion is intended.

It is a prime telephoto lens nothing more or less. 5x magnification would mean based on what you see and this doesn‘t fit here… and how will apple name it if the iphone 16 Ultra will have a real optical zoom? „The true Apple Zoom“?
Apple will have optical zoom sooner or later thats 100% clear. Maybe with 16 or maybe with 17 but it will come. Sony just showed us that the technology is already here and working in a smartphone.

 

[DaveXX]

Another interesting detail.
The 77mm lens (Pro) has a minimum focal distance of 60cm and the 120mm lens (Pro Max) has a minimum focal distance of 135cm.
Means if you go under 135cm distance it will not use the 120mm lens. It will use the 24mm lens instead.
The 24mm lens has a minimal focal distance of 20cm. If you go below 20cm it will use the 13mm instead (e.g. for macro).
So its physical impossible to take a macro shot with the 24mm lens. The 13mm Ultra Wide Lens has just a minimum focal distance of 2cm.

 

[ItachiSBT]

They will be better. Actually, across ALL the types of images that you’ve ever taken with your camera, this one will be better. I would be hard pressed to imagine a scenario where you could take a picture side by side with your regular iPhone 13 and iPhone 15PM and you’d prefer the regular 13. EVEN if you use everything between 3x and 5x, the 15PM is going to be better.

That's not true and physically impossible but it's clear that here people don't believe in physic so whatever.