Just because it is Intel technology doesn't mean it requires an intel chipset. All it requires is PCIe, Display Port and an Intel Thunderbolt controller.
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Will Apple release new iMac in March?
- Thread starter ndolebay
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Yes but which year? This sort of timeframe/rumour has been touted for the last few years and yet we're all still waiting?
Nah, it will be this year. The Kaby Lake CPUs suitable for the 27" are now shipping and while I am not sure Intel will offer a version of the embedded version used in the 21.5" model, there are KL CPUs with the same 65w TDP that should be fine. And that may have the benefit of moving the 21.5" model off the LPDDR3 RAM that is only available in a soldered package to user-replacable SO-DIMMs. And by summer we're supposed to have Mobile Vega in addition to the higher-end Polaris GPUs.
So at worse, I believe we're looking at a Fall 2017 refresh with KL CPUs across the line and new iGPUs and dGPUs a fair bit more powerful than what is in the Late 2015 models.
that is a too long a wait for me unfortunately. Lets hope that is the 'worst case'.
I am off to a Surface seminar on Wednesday for work - it could tip me over the edge
Will be my first time on the Surface Studio, which whilst not really fast enough for all my needs, would be a great daily driver for most of my work, and can make great use of the pen [design / drafting etc]Could end up with a specific VR dev machine I guess.
Or the ideal for me would be a new released mac pro with a 16" wacom in front of me. Wish this would happen........... and would much prefer this, but am open to all suggestions these days. Apple have let me down too much and is effecting my work [which pays for the computers].
Really all I really need is a VR ready graphics machine with a decent processor [xeon pref]. Sounds like what a mac pro / high end iMac should be
If I was in the market to buy I would definitely wait even if that is in the Fall. Reason being the current machines are 2 years old. When you come to sell these machines the retail value will be lower than a 2017 machine and it's also now older tech. These are expensive machines so it's always best to buy the latest ones unless you get a massive discount off a refurb machine off the Apple Store.
For 27" yes, 21" no. But, the 21" is still on broadwell CPUs, so Skylake from last year would still be an upgrade.
It's irrelevant.
You don't need Kaby Lake. The Skylake chip in the 27" is perfectly adequate and the 21" would be fine with a bump to Skylake.
What actually needs updating is:
- The 27" needs updated AMD graphics.
- Both sizes need the 2 Thunderbolt 2 ports replacing with 2 or 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt 2 ports (and, preferably, the other ports left alone).
If new Kaby Lake processors are available then hooray, but Kaby Lake alone is not worth an upgrade.
If you're not fussed about TB3/USB-C then, frankly, there's nothing wrong with the current 27". However, if Apple are serious about USB-C/TB3 being the future, they need to get a serious move on with rolling it out across the iMac, Mini and pro. Being able to connect an LG/Apple 5k display would be an advantage - although if Apple gave a wet slap about that they'd have ponied up the cash to wrap the new displays in a nice metal enclosure.
I believe Kaby Lake is required for Intel native support of TB3. Skylake can do TB3 but it requires the use of Texas Instruments TB chip to make it possible. The T.I. chip has compatibility problems with some devices so Kaby Lake would be preferred for the best TB3 experience.
Plus, the Kaby Lake chips are already out for the 27" so there is really no excuse from that standpoint.
My issue with the current iMac is that it only has Bluetooth 4.0. The new MBP has 4.2. I feel that down the road, new features may require Bluetooth 4.2 similar to how Apple Watch Auto-Unlock requires 802.11 AC and I'd hate to drop $2.5k on a new machine and miss out on said future features.
Yes, maybe they should make it 20% thinner so the GPU & CPU are thermally throttled, remove the USB 3 and ethernet ports so everything needs a dongle, solder in the SSD and RAM and offer it in rose gold? Be careful what you wish for. Bottom line is that there haven't been any massive breakthroughs in CPUs in the last 18 months.
I thought so too, but it seems to have just been a rumour circulating before Kaby Lake was officially announced. There's no mention of Thunderbolt 3 or USB C in the official intel specs. I looked up the accompanying chipsets too - nothing.
Also:
So what are these:
https://ark.intel.com/products/series/87742/Thunderbolt-3-Controllers
I thought they were independent chips that create a Thunderbolt interface from PCIe x4 and DisplayPort, or are these the other side. I didn't think Thunderbolt was built into the Intel chipset as shown in this diagram.
And here is a diagram for TB3...
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Kaby Lake is hardly a game changer rather it's just an interim CPU until Intel rolls out it's better stuff. This is what Ars Technica has to say about this family of CPUs - for the enthusiast—where the latest and greatest should perform better than what came before—Kaby Lake desktop chips are a disappointment, a stopgap solution that does little more than give OEMs something new to stick on a label in a 2017 product stack.
If this is what Apple are going to give us (if they give us anything at all that is) then I can't see this prising money out of my wallet. You might as well go with what they are currently producing if this is going to be the sum total of their efforts.
Agreed, but the 27" is already on Skylake and they could have moved the 21.5" to Skylake-R last fall, but did not.
That they didn't makes me believe that Apple are not holding back the iMac for Kaby Lake, but for the Polaris / Vega GPUs that will be available this Summer / Fall. And since Kaby Lake will be available by then, as well, they might as well upgrade to it, as well.
Do you make Kaby Lake-R will be out by this summer? Regular Kaby Lake is already out.
So what are these:
https://ark.intel.com/products/series/87742/Thunderbolt-3-Controllers
I thought they were independent chips that create a Thunderbolt interface from PCIe x4 and DisplayPort, or are these the other side. I didn't think Thunderbolt was built into the Intel chipset as shown in this diagram.
And here is a diagram for TB3...
The chipset here is only providing the DisplayPort output from the graphics integrated into the CPU and requisite PCIe lanes. Thunderbolt can work with any system where the PCIe+graphics requirements are met.
Making CPUs is very, very difficult. As we get closer to the limits of silicon, expect progress to slow further, especially in single threaded performance.
Its likely that the RX 500 series is nothing more than rebranded 400 series parts. There is a chance they get a slight bump in efficiency but nothing worth delaying an update for. Vega will get its own branding, i.e. AMD RX Vega.
If I recall correctly, Intel is not planning on releasing a Kaby Lake-R. They are dropping the iris graphics from the quad core chips on both mobile and desktop versions. Basically only Apple was using them.
I agree Kaby Lake is lackluster vs Skylake. You can get a 7700K for about $0 - $30 more then a 6700K today (tigerdirect has them at the same price, Newegg is $10 different, Amazon ~$30 different). There should be a larger delta there and there would be if the 7700K was that much better. Intel knows people would just buy a 6700K if the price was too much different.
However Intel forces manufacturers to use their latest generation with the respective application.
And before anyone mentions it Broadwell was the best and pretty much only option available for the 21" iMac at the time of launch. Apple used Intels Broadwell CPU's with a R suffix on everything except the entry dual core model. Intels R suffix is a desktop CPU on a mobile package (BGA1356 which is soldered to the mobo). The entry model is a U suffix which ultra low power. It wasn't until the beginning of 2016 that the Skylake HQ CPU's starting rolling out.
It wont be until Coffee Lake before Intel stirs excitement again. Hopefully we'll see it at the end of the year. I plan on waiting for an iMac with Coffee Lake.
I hope you're wrong because I want it sooner than that, but I'm beginning to be convinced this is the most likely release time. If there's nothing after WWDC, then it's all but guaranteed.
This misses the point. The iMac as a whole needs a total redesign from the ground up as well as up to date internals if it's to keep current. The current design is now so old that it wouldn't look out of place at an antiques fair. The only real visual difference between a 2010 model and today's offering is a larger derriere.
I get the impression Apple simply don't know where to take the iMac next.
...but the person who I was replying to did, and there was an earlier rumour that the Kaby Lake chipset was going to have a built-in Thunderbolt 3 controller.
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Why?
There have been no recent technical revolutions to make it obsolete.
The 27" is still the only 5k all-in-one on the market (and there are only - what - 2-3 5k displays of any type on the market).
The real fundamental improvements that could be made to the iMac (...re-instate 'target display mode', make the SSD/hard drive upgradeable without unglueing the glass) are in the "ain't never gonna happen" category.
The only alternative direction I can see is the Surface Studio way - but 27" high quality pen digitisers don't come cheap, so I don't think that would be a viable replacement for the mainstream iMac.
A new iMac is not going to be the new sexy blockbuster flagship product for Apple, but a viable range of desktop systems is an essential part of the MacOS ecosystem.
I get the impression that Apple have got so impressed with themselves that they see merely keeping mature products up to date as beneath them.
The current design of the iMac besides being terribly dated also constrains what hardware can be used within it. There needs to be a fundamental rethink re: design versus space versus hardware. They need to stop thinking 'thin' all the time and make something that whilst looking aesthetically pleasing to the eye is also able to make best use of both current and future hardware innovations.
I see the current iMac as a Laptop on a stick approach. When I look at what I could build in a relatively small form factor using good quality components with a good quality monitor for much less than the cost of the iMac, then it starts to become a no-brainer. Windows 10 would be a more than capable replacement for MacOS.