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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
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Well, we talked about this. How does Steam count these percentages? For example, I play around 80% of my games under macOS. But I would occasionally use Bootcamp or GeforceNow to play some Windows exclusives. How do I enter the statistics? As a Mac user? A Windows user? If Steam counts „active“ installs within a certain period of time, I‘ll be registered as 1/3 Mac and 2/3 Windows, even if this is very far from my usage. What about people using Crossover or Parallels?
lol, you keep ignoring the fact so I dont think it will gonna work. You are just one example and you do not represent all users. Steam is a huge community unlike other platforms and therefor, it's a great example to show how many Mac users play games. Even Geforce Now have more Windows users than Mac users. Both crossovers and Parallels also dont work. Who really wanna suffer hardware performance while they play games? How many Mac computers are capable to play games through boot camp? Even 16 inch MacBook Pro is using an ENTRY LEVEL GPU. Do you really think Apple sells a lot of 16 inch MBP and higher end Macs like 27 inch iMac? Who really care more about playing games through bootcamp and parallels? And Steam seems to check the hardware to create a statics so I dont think using a Mac for bootcamp counts as a Windows.

You just wanna ignore the fact that there aren't many Mac users playing games.
 
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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,840
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You're also ignoring the fact that any game played under boot camp or a hypervisor on a Mac is counted as a Windows user.

I would vastly prefer a Mac version of any game I play, but often it's simply not an option.
That doesn't change the fact that Mac users is such a minor player. That's why Apple removed Boot camp.
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
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That doesn't change the fact that Mac users is such a minor player. That's why Apple removed Boot camp.
Craig Federighi has stated that there is technically nothing stopping ARM-based versions of Windows 10 from running on Apple silicon processors; Microsoft would just need to change the licensing policies regarding ARM-based Windows 10. Apple didn't purposefully remove it.
You just wanna ignore the fact that there aren't many Mac users playing games.
Because up until recently, the bulk (80% or so) of macs have not had hardware capable of playing many modern games. This is still true today with most users still on intel macs, which is why we haven't seen a major shift. What some of us are still optimistic about is that eventually when the entire mac lineup has transitioned over, and all macs sold are capable of playing AAA games at low settings, at that point the foundation will be set, allowing Apple to push devs and push gaming further.

Right now, M1 macs are the only macs on the new platform, and there's simply just not enough of them compared to intel mac users. It will take a few years before the Apple Silicon market will be large enough to make gaming viable for devs. Sure not every dev is going to take the time and invest, but some will when the apple silicon market is large enough.
 
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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
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Because up until recently, the bulk (80% or so) of macs have not had hardware capable of playing many modern games. This is still true today with most users still on intel macs, which is why we haven't seen a major shift. What some of us are still optimistic about is that eventually when the entire mac lineup has transitioned over, and all macs sold are capable of playing AAA games at low settings, at that point the foundation will be set, allowing Apple to push devs and push gaming further.

Right now, M1 macs are the only macs on the new platform, and there's simply just not enough of them compared to intel mac users. It will take a few years before the Apple Silicon market will be large enough to make gaming viable for devs. Sure not every dev is going to take the time and invest, but some will when the apple silicon market is large enough.
Like I said, a gaming problem is not just about hardware, it's more complicated than you think. Both software and hardware aspects are making macOS to be not gaming friendly and being terrible. Moving to ARM with better hardware won't gonna solve this problem right away and I highly doubt that PC/Console developers are even interested in macOS. Even now, PC players laugh at Mac users believing that Apple Silicon Mac will be a great game machine.
 
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sunny5

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Jun 11, 2021
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Craig Federighi has stated that there is technically nothing stopping ARM-based versions of Windows 10 from running on Apple silicon processors; Microsoft would just need to change the licensing policies regarding ARM-based Windows 10. Apple didn't purposefully remove it.

It's not a simple thing that MS can just support ARM on other devices. ARM version of Windows 10 does not officially support because of Intel. All or most of emulation technology belongs to Intel and therefore, they control the availability of ARM version of Windows 10. Intel still owns x86 itself. They already warned MS and Qualcomm about this several years ago for emulating x86. This is also why ARM version of Windows 10 is not purchasable but only for OEM.


Also, dont trust Apple for everything cause Linus Torvalds complained that Apple is not sharing and supporting for Linux especially for M1's GPU. Linux barely supports M1. This proves that Apple is contradicting for what they are saying.
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
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Like I said, a gaming problem is not just about hardware, it's more complicated than you think. Both software and hardware aspects are making macOS to be not gaming friendly and being terrible. Moving to ARM with better hardware won't gonna solve this problem right away and I highly doubt that PC/Console developers are even interested in macOS. Even now, PC players laugh at Mac users believing that Apple Silicon Mac will be a great game machine.
I am fully aware, but it starts with the hardware. Why would devs spend the money to make their software work on Mac when the majority of hardware can’t handle it. That’s why I’m saying first we must wait for the hardware to catch up, as that is factor #1 - then when most current macs can run AAA games, we can discuss software.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
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I am fully aware, but it starts with the hardware. Why would devs spend the money to make their software work on Mac when the majority of hardware can’t handle it. That’s why I’m saying first we must wait for the hardware to catch up, as that is factor #1 - then when all macs can run AAA games, we can discuss software.
Nintendo Switch has a poor chip and yet they are booming. I really don't think the hardware is a good excuse any more.
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
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Nintendo Switch has a poor chip and yet they are booming. I really don't think the hardware is a good excuse any more.
We’re talking about AAA games available on PC. That’s not a good comparison. Nintendo switch is irrelevant unless we want to switch the discussion to “why doesn’t Apple make their own games”
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
Will take multiple cycles for both Apple and the gaming industry to change if at all. As of now the Mac has too small a player base to interest major game developers with the majority of Mac's not being capable of playing modern 3D games.

As for Apple Silicon the future is bright, equally very much a minority within a minority group. TBH the OP's question is more likely answerable in 5-7 years when the Apple Silicon user base has significantly increased within the community and if Apple is able to grow the demand for the Mac significantly.

As for gaming, if a priority the still best solution is a Windows PC and they too will evolve. I own an M1 MBP which impresses and capable of playing some games, yet even if twice as powerful it would still remain very far from being suitable as a gaming platform...

Q-6
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
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We’re talking about AAA games available on PC. That’s not a good comparison. Nintendo switch is irrelevant unless we want to switch the discussion to “why doesn’t Apple make their own games”
lol, totally not true. Nintendo Switch supports many PC/console games inclduing...

- Doom
- Skyrim
- Minecraft
- Quake
- Witcher 3
- Fortnite
- Wolfenstein
- Diablo 3
- Alien Isolation
- Outlast 2
- Little Nightmares
- Wasteland 2
- Bioshock
- NBA 2K20
- Divinity: Original Sin 2
- Dark Souls
- Assassin's Creed
- Resident Evils
- And more...

There are many PC/Console games on Nintendo Switch and yet it's not a good comparison? What a joke. Nintendo supports many PC games including AAA because their platform is popular despite the chip's performance and being ARM. Apple's Mac platform is bad and that's why game developers aren't interested base on the number of players, OS supports, and more.
 
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Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
lol, totally not true. Nintendo Switch supports many PC/console games inclduing...

- Doom
- Skyrim
- Minecraft
- Quake
- Witcher 3
- Fortnite
- Wolfenstein
- Diablo 3
- Alien Isolation
- Outlast 2
- Little Nightmares
- Wasteland 2
- Bioshock
- NBA 2K20
- Divinity: Original Sin 2
- Dark Souls
- Assassin's Creed
- Resident Evils
- And more...

There are many PC/Console games on Nintendo Switch and yet it's not a good comparison? What a joke. Nintendo supports many PC games including AAA because their platform is popular despite the chip's performance and being ARM. Apple's Mac platform is bad and that's why game developers aren't interested base on the number of players, OS supports, and more.
I wasn’t aware of that, but When I reference AAA games I’m talking about things like GTAV or COD. It’s also my understanding after looking into it that a lot of those ported games have degraded quality or features to be able to run on the switch. But also many of those games people already play on macs like Minecraft, and games like the sims or wow don’t show up on steam analytics.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,840
1,711
I wasn’t aware of that, but When I reference AAA games I’m talking about things like GTAV or COD. It’s also my understanding after looking into it that a lot of those ported games have degraded quality or features to be able to run on the switch. But also many of those games people already play on macs like Minecraft, and games like the sims or wow don’t show up on steam analytics.
Many games that I mentioned are AAA. I dont know what you are talking about. Nintendo Switch has 720P and it's not too difficult to support for 30FPS.

Anyway, doesn't really change the fact at all.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I wasn’t aware of that, but When I reference AAA games I’m talking about things like GTAV or COD. It’s also my understanding after looking into it that a lot of those ported games have degraded quality or features to be able to run on the switch. But also many of those games people already play on macs like Minecraft, and games like the sims or wow don’t show up on steam analytics.
Believe that the games are optimised graphically for the Switch to allow for adequate FPS. IMO majority of PC games are poorly optimised as even gaming notebooks are extremely powerful today and optimisation costs in time and money. Apple Silicon is magnitude's more powerful than the Switch, however I would suggest that the vast majority of Mac users don't purchase their Mac's for gaming purpose as they mostly don't...

As said it will take time, personally I would have an eye to Apple's Game Pass. If Apple begins to promote some exclusive AAA games similar to Epic then you can guarantee Apple has an interest, if so then gaming on the Mac will accelerate accordingly.

Q-6
 
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Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
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As said it will take time, personally I would have an eye to Apple's Game Pass. If Apple begins to promote some exclusive AAA games similar to Epic then you can guarantee Apple has an interest, if so then gaming on the Mac will accelerate accordingly.
Totally agree. I think Apple will need to market the Mac as a “gaming platform” and also have a massive base of games available when they do for people to even consider mac a viable option for gaming. But they would probably need to wait for the Apple silicon transition to be completed.
Many games that I mentioned are AAA. I dont know what you are talking about. Nintendo Switch has 720P and it's not too difficult to support for 30FPS.
Never said they weren’t. But Minecraft and GTAV are very different demands on the system. Screen resolution is irrelevant as the graphics themselves on some of those titles have been degraded so the switch can run them.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
Totally agree. I think Apple will need to market the Mac as a “gaming platform” and also have a massive base of games available when they do for people to even consider mac a viable option for gaming. But they would probably need to wait for the Apple silicon transition to be completed.
Personally think we will see after the complete transition to Apple Silicon. Bottom line is gaming is lucrative and Apple is in the business of serving the stockholder, with the right hardware just a matter of time. That said I don't see that time being now, Apple will pull it's "gaming" card out the hat as and when it choses to unlock that revenue stream and we all know where that ends LOL...

Q-6
 
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VArase

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2008
114
60
Chicagoland
That doesn't change the fact that Mac users is such a minor player. That's why Apple removed Boot camp.
You know, hardcore PC gamers have always exaggerated their importance and numbers, and their numbers are declining as proved by the dominance of mobile gaming when it comes to gaming revenue dollars.

Gamers are aging, and the willingness to invest the time in AAA games gets stripped away by the other responsibilities of life.

Outside of a few must have titles, I've been out of gaming for a while now until recently when my daughter is more grown up and I've retired so I have time to game again. Still, I've recently had a sewage fill-up event whose mitigation has been spread out over a year due to COVID concerns, and a knucklehead hit me in an intersection by taking the turn too fast and I'm in the process of getting that damage repaired, both incidents costing about $13K each to mediate and a bunch of time.

AAA games require a fair investment of hardware dollars and time, and AAA developers are currently investing in the Wintel platform because of ... well population. There are simply more Wintel users at this juncture than another other platform, and of that vast number of units a certain percentage sport discrete GPUs and CPUs fast enough to do realtime gaming.

Of that number, Mac computers have traditionally been underpowered because the principal target for Mac hardware has been productivity, and discrete GPUs have been limited to one GPU manufacturer due to nVidea screwing up so royally with GPUs melting on laptop class motherboards in the first decade of the current millennium.

Intel CPU designs have been stagnating and haven't delivered their promised (by roadmap) efficiency gains and delivered TDPs which have led to Apple reputational damage due to computers designed for energy budgets which year after year Intel failed to deliver on - resulting in thermal deceleration and ultimately the transition to Apple Silicon SoCs whose future course Apple could actually rely on.

So here are are today - with Apple delivering machines with accelerated graphic and computational pipelines which have genuine price/performance/efficiency advantages so that not only are Mac users upgrading to them but Wintel users (not deeply embedded in legacy Windows subsystems) are switching to them - but it's only been less than a year so their population isn't enormous.

But ... even with just the first phase complete of Apple's lowest level offerings - their performance envelope bats waaayy outside that of their Wintel counterparts. The CPUs are highly advanced and fast - high performance eight wide CPU cores with 690 instruction execution queues, massive reorder buffers, and enough arithmetic units so that Firestorm can execute up to eight instructions simultaneously. That makes for blazingly fast single core execution speeds which traditional CPU makers like Intel and AMD can only match by pouring on energy to boost their clocks (which produces exponential increases in heat) and then turning around and requiring heroic cooling solutions (which adds still more to their energy budget) to keep those chips from burning up. How many discussions of high performance Wintel computers end up with question, "... but how good is the cooling ... ?"

With those few units able beat M1, most do it by beating down the M1's mere four Firestorm cores by adding a ton of cores which works for easily multithreaded tasks like transcoding or an enormous number of discrete tasks like file sharing but in consumer computers mostly ends up with a lot of idle cores. IOW, for consumer computers it's mostly a specs-on-paper game.

So ... with M1x we end up with eight high performance Firestorm cores and two high efficiency Icestorm cores and 16 or 32 GPU cores (up from M1's 7 or 8). That M1 could achieve so much with 7 or 8 means that M1x's 16 or 32 will result in pretty much staggering graphics performance, provided that it's all done under the umbrella of unified memory and high speed interconnects, since 'M' series SoCs no longer require the main memory to GPU memory copying which resulted in such bottlenecks under the Wintel model, with graphics intermediate pipelines rendering into discrete tile memory.

So M1x should be a pretty significant improvement even if Apple doesn't play with the clocks ... which they could do. After all, Apple did nudge up the A14's clocks up to 3.2 ghz for the M1, and these new models should have lots more battery and thermal headroom. That's what's nice about evolving from a super thrifty SoC like the A14 which runs in a pocketable glass sandwich with a smallish battery and only passive cooling.

So, as the Apple Silicon population increases, so too does the population of Macs with fairly capable computational and graphics subsystems. M1x MacBooks are rumored to have mini-LED displays capable of true HDR (at least 1000 NIT HDR transient brightness) and also possibly greater than 60 hz frame rates.

Can't wait to get my 16" M1x MacBook Pro, and I think that one of the first things I'm going to try is to run Mass Effect Legendary Edition at full screen resolution under Parallels 17 and ARM Windows.
 
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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,840
1,711
You know, hardcore PC gamers have always exaggerated their importance and numbers, and their numbers are declining as proved by the dominance of mobile gaming when it comes to gaming revenue dollars.

Gamers are aging, and the willingness to invest the time in AAA games gets stripped away by the other responsibilities of life.

Outside of a few must have titles, I've been out of gaming for a while now until recently when my daughter is more grown up and I've retired so I have time to game again. Still, I've recently had a sewage fill-up event whose mitigation has been spread out over a year due to COVID concerns, and a knucklehead hit me in an intersection by taking the turn too fast and I'm in the process of getting that damage repaired, both incidents costing about $13K each to mediate and a bunch of time.

AAA games require a fair investment of hardware dollars and time, and AAA developers are currently investing in the Wintel platform because of ... well population. There are simply more Wintel users at this juncture than another other platform, and of that vast number of units a certain percentage sport discrete GPUs and CPUs fast enough to do realtime gaming.

Of that number, Mac computers have traditionally been underpowered because the principal target for Mac hardware has been productivity, and discrete GPUs have been limited to one GPU manufacturer due to nVidea screwing up so royally with GPUs melting on laptop class motherboards in the first decade of the current millennium.

Intel CPU designs have been stagnating and haven't delivered their promised (by roadmap) efficiency gains and delivered TDPs which have led to Apple reputational damage due to computers designed for energy budgets which year after year Intel failed to deliver on - resulting in thermal deceleration and ultimately the transition to Apple Silicon SoCs whose future course Apple could actually rely on.

So here are are today - with Apple delivering machines with accelerated graphic and computational pipelines which have genuine price/performance/efficiency advantages so that not only are Mac users upgrading to them but Wintel users (not deeply embedded in legacy Windows subsystems) are switching to them - but it's only been less than a year so their population isn't enormous.

But ... even with just the first phase complete of Apple's lowest level offerings - their performance envelope bats waaayy outside that of their Wintel counterparts. The CPUs are highly advanced and fast - high performance eight wide CPU cores with 690 instruction execution queues, massive reorder buffers, and enough arithmetic units so that Firestorm can execute up to eight instructions simultaneously. That makes for blazingly fast single core execution speeds which traditional CPU makers like Intel and AMD can only match by pouring on energy to boost their clocks (which produces exponential increases in heat) and then turning around and requiring heroic cooling solutions (which adds still more to their energy budget) to keep those chips from burning up. How many discussions of high performance Wintel computers end up with question, "... but how good is the cooling ... ?"

With those few units able beat M1, most do it by beating down the M1's mere four Firestorm cores by adding a ton of cores which works for easily multithreaded tasks like transcoding or an enormous number of discrete tasks like file sharing but in consumer computers mostly ends up with a lot of idle cores. IOW, for consumer computers it's mostly a specs-on-paper game.

So ... with M1x we end up with eight high performance Firestorm cores and two high efficiency Icestorm cores and 16 or 32 GPU cores (up from M1's 7 or 8). That M1 could achieve so much with 7 or 8 means that M1x's 16 or 32 will result in pretty much staggering graphics performance, provided that it's all done under the umbrella of unified memory and high speed interconnects, since 'M' series SoCs no longer require the main memory to GPU memory copying which resulted in such bottlenecks under the Wintel model, with graphics intermediate pipelines rendering into discrete tile memory.

So M1x should be a pretty significant improvement even if Apple doesn't play with the clocks ... which they could do. After all, Apple did nudge up the A14's clocks up to 3.2 ghz for the M1, and these new models should have lots more battery and thermal headroom. That's what's nice about evolving from a super thrifty SoC like the A14 which runs in a pocketable glass sandwich with a smallish battery and only passive cooling.

So, as the Apple Silicon population increases, so too does the population of Macs with fairly capable computational and graphics subsystems. M1x MacBooks are rumored to have mini-LED displays capable of true HDR (at least 1000 NIT HDR transient brightness) and also possibly greater than 60 hz frame rates.

Can't wait to get my 16" M1x MacBook Pro, and I think that one of the first things I'm going to try is to run Mass Effect Legendary Edition at full screen resolution under Parallels 17 and ARM Windows.

I have no idea what you wanna say. The fact is macOS is the worst platform for gaming among other platforms such as PC and consoles and yet Apple is not investing on PC/Console games on Mac. Having a powerful machine is just a beginning since the platform and software aspect is another huge problem. At this point, it's nothing but dream.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
You know, hardcore PC gamers have always exaggerated their importance and numbers, and their numbers are declining as proved by the dominance of mobile gaming when it comes to gaming revenue dollars.

Gamers are aging, and the willingness to invest the time in AAA games gets stripped away by the other responsibilities of life.

Outside of a few must have titles, I've been out of gaming for a while now until recently when my daughter is more grown up and I've retired so I have time to game again. Still, I've recently had a sewage fill-up event whose mitigation has been spread out over a year due to COVID concerns, and a knucklehead hit me in an intersection by taking the turn too fast and I'm in the process of getting that damage repaired, both incidents costing about $13K each to mediate and a bunch of time.

AAA games require a fair investment of hardware dollars and time, and AAA developers are currently investing in the Wintel platform because of ... well population. There are simply more Wintel users at this juncture than another other platform, and of that vast number of units a certain percentage sport discrete GPUs and CPUs fast enough to do realtime gaming.

Of that number, Mac computers have traditionally been underpowered because the principal target for Mac hardware has been productivity, and discrete GPUs have been limited to one GPU manufacturer due to nVidea screwing up so royally with GPUs melting on laptop class motherboards in the first decade of the current millennium.

Intel CPU designs have been stagnating and haven't delivered their promised (by roadmap) efficiency gains and delivered TDPs which have led to Apple reputational damage due to computers designed for energy budgets which year after year Intel failed to deliver on - resulting in thermal deceleration and ultimately the transition to Apple Silicon SoCs whose future course Apple could actually rely on.

So here are are today - with Apple delivering machines with accelerated graphic and computational pipelines which have genuine price/performance/efficiency advantages so that not only are Mac users upgrading to them but Wintel users (not deeply embedded in legacy Windows subsystems) are switching to them - but it's only been less than a year so their population isn't enormous.

But ... even with just the first phase complete of Apple's lowest level offerings - their performance envelope bats waaayy outside that of their Wintel counterparts. The CPUs are highly advanced and fast - high performance eight wide CPU cores with 690 instruction execution queues, massive reorder buffers, and enough arithmetic units so that Firestorm can execute up to eight instructions simultaneously. That makes for blazingly fast single core execution speeds which traditional CPU makers like Intel and AMD can only match by pouring on energy to boost their clocks (which produces exponential increases in heat) and then turning around and requiring heroic cooling solutions (which adds still more to their energy budget) to keep those chips from burning up. How many discussions of high performance Wintel computers end up with question, "... but how good is the cooling ... ?"

With those few units able beat M1, most do it by beating down the M1's mere four Firestorm cores by adding a ton of cores which works for easily multithreaded tasks like transcoding or an enormous number of discrete tasks like file sharing but in consumer computers mostly ends up with a lot of idle cores. IOW, for consumer computers it's mostly a specs-on-paper game.

So ... with M1x we end up with eight high performance Firestorm cores and two high efficiency Icestorm cores and 16 or 32 GPU cores (up from M1's 7 or 8). That M1 could achieve so much with 7 or 8 means that M1x's 16 or 32 will result in pretty much staggering graphics performance, provided that it's all done under the umbrella of unified memory and high speed interconnects, since 'M' series SoCs no longer require the main memory to GPU memory copying which resulted in such bottlenecks under the Wintel model, with graphics intermediate pipelines rendering into discrete tile memory.

So M1x should be a pretty significant improvement even if Apple doesn't play with the clocks ... which they could do. After all, M1 did nudge the A14's clocks up to 3.2 ghz, and these new models should have lots more battery and thermal headroom. That's what's nice about evolving from a SoC like the A14 which runs in a pocketable glass sandwich with a smallish battery and only passive cooling.

So, as the Apple Silicon population increases, so too does the population of Macs with fairly capable computational and graphics subsystems. M1x MacBooks are rumored to have mini-LED displays capable of true HDR (at least 1000 NIT HDR transient brightness) and also possibly greater than 60 hz frame rates.

Can't wait to get my 16" M1x MacBook Pro, and I think that one of the first things I'm going to try is to run Mass Effect Legendary Edition at full screen resolution under Parallels 17 and ARM Windows.
TBH I'd just be at peace with myself and play the games on the most relevant platform. For me as an older gamer it's all about the gameplay not the eye candy.

Q-6
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,867
4,603
It's not a simple thing that MS can just support ARM on other devices. ARM version of Windows 10 does not officially support because of Intel. All or most of emulation technology belongs to Intel and therefore, they control the availability of ARM version of Windows 10. Intel still owns x86 itself. They already warned MS and Qualcomm about this several years ago for emulating x86. This is also why ARM version of Windows 10 is not purchasable but only for OEM.
Both macOS with Rosetta 2 and Windows 10&11 use translation and not emulation. Intel tried to threaten but it was shrugged off. Intel still has patents but since both Apple and Microsoft are just translating to Arm native code, any patent disputes would have to be over Arm instructions or other features which hasn't happened.

Where do you get the idea that Windows x86 & x86-64 translation is the reason Windows 10 is not purchasable except for OEMs? That would imply that Intel granted Apple and Microsoft a license and I haven't read a single thing about that. Another thing to note is that AMD owns the x86-64 (AMD64) not Intel.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,840
1,711
Both macOS with Rosetta 2 and Windows 10&11 use translation and not emulation. Intel tried to threaten but it was shrugged off. Intel still has patents but since both Apple and Microsoft are just translating to Arm native code, any patent disputes would have to be over Arm instructions or other features which hasn't happened.

Where do you get the idea that Windows x86 & x86-64 translation is the reason Windows 10 is not purchasable except for OEMs? That would imply that Intel granted Apple and Microsoft a license and I haven't read a single thing about that. Another thing to note is that AMD owns the x86-64 (AMD64) not Intel.
Then how come Intel argued and warned toward both MS and Qualcomm for using x86-64 apps on ARM, not AMD? MS finally can use x86-64 software on ARM with Windows 11. And still, Intel owns x86 itself.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,867
4,603
Then how come Intel argued and warned toward both MS and Qualcomm for using x86-64 apps on ARM, not AMD? MS finally can use x86-64 software on ARM with Windows 11. And still, Intel owns x86 itself.
Like I said, Intel threatened and both Apple and Microsoft ignored the threat. If you have additional information please post the source.
 
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VArase

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2008
114
60
Chicagoland
That doesn't change the fact that Mac users is such a minor player. That's why Apple removed Boot camp.
Apple removed boot camp because it no longer runs the x86 instruction set natively, and ARM Windows either wasn't around or doesn't use the same boot conventions as macOS.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,840
1,711
Like I said, Intel threatened and both Apple and Microsoft ignored the threat. If you have additional information please post the source.
How do you even know they ignored? Doesn't make sense and MS tried to use x86-64 on ARM but they didnt.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,840
1,711
Apple removed boot camp because it no longer runs the x86 instruction set natively, and ARM Windows either wasn't around or doesn't use the same boot conventions as macOS.
Did they even try? I doubt it.
 
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