Are the hard core gamers going to be interested in ported games, unless changes are made to significantly differentiate them and and controls?
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Will the M1x MacBook pros be gaming worthy?
- Thread starter im_Jared
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It depends on the quality of the port. The biggest hurdle would be if the game that is ported actually differs from the PC counterpart (for example CoD Mobile isn't the same game as CoD Modern Warfare). Plus they are going to want crossplay, which some control schemes will make unfair (touch screen vs kb/m or controller).
I doubt the hardcore crowd is interested in Macs in general
No, the current Wintel hardcore gaming crowd is pretty much fixated on Wintel gaming issues - bigger and better GPUs, higher PCIe speeds, and bigger and beefier cooling rigs.
Of little concern to them, lots of Win users are switching due to Apple Silicon's price/performance/efficiency advantages - not to mention that AS Macs are far snappier than their Wintel competitors due to their single core speed advantage.
Win users are switching for a well built, fast, and efficient computer systems - but once here, they may implore game developers to bring gaming here as well.
There are a fair number of Mac gamers here as well, but a lot of them have been disguised as Windows users since they run Win exclusive games under boot camp. Hardware-wise, Intel Macs suffer from the same graphical subsystem bottlenecks as their Wintel counterparts - because Intel Macs are Wintel machines - just running macOS.
A lot of those bottlenecks go away with Apple Silicon - and with Apple Silicon's higher single core speed and greatly expanded GPU capability with M1x - and now eight high performance cores to make up for the core count beat-down M1's been suffering from - I expect Metal code to be quite compatible speed-wise with DirectX through even more powerful (but workflow bottlenecked) discrete GPUs.
A lot of game frameworks are already 95+% here due to iPhone and iPad ports - I don't think it would take that much more work to bring them all the way over to macOS with full capability.
The only question is: will AAA developers figure all this out, and try dipping their toes in Apple Silicon macOS?
Of course not, because there is no Mac with similar performance to a “proper” gaming rig. What we have now is performance similar to a $200 Nvidia GPU. Sure, a lot less power hungry, but that doesn’t matter. Whatever AS comes next should be better, much better but also much more expensive. The price it’s going to cost will buy a cheaper gaming PC with really good performance or a 3080/3090 gaming rig with better performance for similar price, maybe even a bit cheaper.
With M1 sure ... but maybe less so with the M1x Mac Mini when it becomes reality.
Let's face it, there will always be ways to cobble together something cheaper than a production Mac - but there are also beginning moves to enforcing more efficient computers as we enter an era of climate change and declining hydroelectric power and degraded power grids - especially those in the western US.
Whatever comes next from Apple that is in 3060/3070 range will start at $2k if we’re lucky, around $2.5k if we’re not so lucky. The upcoming 14”/16” MBPs should show us where Apple is heading.
Yeah, but that's for a machine with a laptop display, which I'm not sure would be where a hard core gamer would be headed.
More likely the M1x Mac Mini would be the target with whatever gaming monitor would be in vogue. That probably brings the price down to $1500-1700 since it doesn't include a display. Not the base model, but one unleveled to 32 GB RAM and 32 GPU cores.
I think the MBP will hit first, then after that the Mac Mini Pro with the latter starting at around $2k, the MBPs with similar specs more.
In terms of M1x I'm expecting about $2.4K for a 16", $2K for a 14", and about $1500-1700 for a Mini.
Think about the decreasing BoMs of the various models.
Mac Mini comes with no screen, no keyboard, no mouse/trackpad, no speakers, no microphones, no webcam, no battery(apple can also save cost here), no touch ID.
The Mac mini M1X will be around $1,200-$1300 for base model.
How many, like me, want a laptop computer with a discrete GPU that's good, but not great, and can run moderate games at good resolution? I suspect there are more of us than the people who put $3000 or more into a desktop machine.
Yeah I think this is more reasonable. Apple will probably maintain the prices of the remaining Intel minis available, so it'll probably start at or be close to those prices.
Exactly, I'm not looking for a desktop replacement. I'd be perfectly happy with a 16-core M1X GPU if that means I'm able to game on-the-go at 1080p with what otherwise is my work machine. For serious gaming, I have my desktop PC anyway.
I wonder if Apple is going to use a high refresh rate panel on the MBP's with M1x. 1080P is on the cusp of being CPU limited these days. Though limiting the refresh rate to 60 could allow you to jack up the quality settings, assuming the hardware can in fact keep up.
lol, when a 3080 is half the price of whatever m1x comes next I doubt you can build something that much better for cheaper.
I hope they do. They manage on iPads and the resolution on those is not that different.
Maybe.
In any case, I wouldn't really expect the Mini (Mini Pro?) to make its debut until the higher margin M1x brethren make their appearance - I always considered the Mini to be the chip dump where Apple put the components they couldn't sell in higher priced models.
I expect M1x to be similar to M1 as a package on package design with the M1x chip, one or two 16 core GPU chipsets, and one or more 16 GB DRAMs all together on a package interconnected by a high speed fabric.
Expect yields to be lower on all components due to the higher complexity and greater silicon surface area - so costs will be higher, especially with TSMC charging 20% higher rates for use of their 5nm process node. They may also employ binning to save the silicon where not all cores pass QA.
Not sure if the mini-LED panels require more energy - almost certainly if in HDR mode pushing >1000 NITs (though normal use on the iPad Pro I think is limited to 600 NITs).
And yes, if they go up to 120fps it'll use more juice, but these models should have a higher energy budget due to larger batteries and active cooling.
At least this time, Apple should have a good handle on the TDP of the processor and graphic subassembly (unlike in the past) so the thing shouldn't thermal out.
M1x will probably be a beast, but the M2 should be better than the M1.
Rumor has it it will have 10 GPU cores which is a 25-42% improvement.
I wonder if this is where binned 16 core GPU chipsets will go? That would give them quite a good leeway with up to 37% bad GPU cores.
Then again, M2 should be based on the A15 which will probably feature a new EUV process if not a smaller mask size.
Aren’t 3080’s going for over $1K these days? The low-end M1X Mac mini is almost guaranteed to start at $1099 because it’s going to replace the i5 Intel mini. When Apple replaced the i3 mini with M1 they even lowered the price by $100. Even if you went with the higher-end M1X models, they’ll likely come in around $1,499. I don’t think you could even come close to that if you wanted a 3080 rig.
Yes, it’s delusional to think you can build a 3080 rig for the price of an M1x given the ****ed up gpu market right now. Msrp is $700 or so but that’s sold out nearly 100% of the time, and your other option is paying $2k on ebay.
So unless you’ve got industry connections or a friend willing to sell you one for cheap, I have extreme difficulty believing the argument that one could build a super powerful rig for the price of an M1x in the current market.
Maybe when prices fall the next Etherium crash it will hold water but until then it’s flat wrong.
I am betting on even more than that. because if goes from 4 performance and 4 low performance cores to 8 performance and 2 low performance cores. That is if the rumors are true.
Also would not be surprised if the M1x is 5nm+ instead of 5nm.