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Think about it, if Intel did come up with the 1500 without anyone knowing, and although it's more of a DT or mobile sibling

That "although" is exactly how easy that would be to do. Work with a small number of vendors ( so no big blabber mouths on project ) and use the prototype laptop chips for any work outside of the small group. The E3 1500M is essentially the same package as the upcoming quad laptops products with different features turns on inside. The only thing Intel was hiding from causal view is features that most people can't see. That isn't particularly hard to keep a secret if just deal with a relatively small group of trustworthy people. That very small core group could easily work with other groups by just handing them specs/protoupes with the mainstream versions substituted in to work out intra-system connectivity/configuration issues

Probably every system vendor you will see roll out with a E3-1500M will likely have another laptop that rolls out with non-motherboard features that are different that is basically the same thing only more affordable. Those 'decoy' systems could easily be evolved into products themselves.

E3-1500M is a way to boast short term profits a bit by releases the incrementally more expensive processor first. About 4 vendors sell about 80-90% of the workstations so it isn't a really big group Intel has to let in on the secret versus the 100's of vendors they deal with in the more mainstream market where leaks are inevitable so might as well just proactively leak with some control.


A E5-1500M that would be tough to keep a secret. There is laptop design variant in that family sharing the same baseline design.
 
...When it debuted, it was relatively competitive to similarly equipped workstation PCs.

debuted as in the 2006 model. Yeah that is probably an artificial low as that was largely just taking an Intel motherboard and pushing it out to market as fast as possible. ( the objective was to flip the whole mac line up to Intel in a year and Apple doesn't have that much design bandwidth. )

The core problem they have though is that alot of customers price anchored on that. Perhaps a small part of the major product change is to help reset the anchor but


Cost could be saved by not having to include support for the workstation class chipset, no ECC memory, only 1 thunderbolt controller, no second GPU and the entry level CPU could be something like a Core i5 around $200.

A > $2,000 for a i5 system? I don't think Apple "value add" is enough to cover that gap except for the most deeply religiously attached. Apple could gut the internals to maximum extent but at some point folks are looking for value at $2,000+ and if it isn't the hardware in the system .... what is it they are looking at?

Apple tried that back in the PowerMac days. They would sell some "gutted to the max could reasonably get away" version just to hit a $1,500-1,700 price point. That was more so Apple selling a "bare bones" system (at least as bare bones as Apple would go.). Many folks would partially empty it and use it as a baseline for they new "erector set" project. Those tactics and strategy didn't build a 10+M/yr mac market. It is pretty clear Apple has moved past the "come throw whatever you want inside of our system" stage. It doesn't really work for what they do best.

A $2,000 'bare bones" box probably isn't going to work. Even if put in a slot for the box-with-slot lovers ( they typically have their own price anchors which are based on the overall class PC component market). A $2,000 "bare bone" system that is heavily aligned with the current Mac Pro would work even less effectively. Basically copying the Mac Cube at that point. Under horsepower (relative to other "desktop" class Macs in the line up) and crippled to hit lower pricing and largely closed system. There is already a track record for that.

If there was a new desktop Mac coming it seems more likely that it would be a a Mac micro split off of the Mac Mini than something to fill the gap between the iMac and MP.

This was true for Haswell. For Broadwell, consumer chips were released Q3 2014, and Broadwell-EP will be released Q1 2016.

Broadwell consumer chips didn't make 2014 at all. That was the logjam problem. They were suppose to but didn't. Once Intel finally worked out the 14nm process problems the desktop Gen 5 Broadwell products were getting close to the Gen 6 ( Skylake) ones. That's was the root cause issue. That's why Intel has the "Haswell Refresh" in 2014 to attempt to mitigate some of the damage ( move the chipset up to Broadwell compatible ).

For Xeon E5 there was no and never been hinted at any "Haswell Refresh". Intel could play some hocus-pocus name game. Just change v4 ( "Broadwell-EP") into 'v3.5' ( "Haswell-Refresh-EP") . We'll see. They are socket and chipset compatible. [ 'v3.5' would be v3 with some new intermingled model numbers. ]

If you want Skylake-EP, you are going to be waiting 12-18 months from now.

I can see Intel moving v5 out of 2017 and into Q4 2016 (and pre-announcing and leaking heavily in Q3 ) . Especially if that means stomping on AMD's Zen offerings announcements that are oriented toward servers.
 
heh.. i think much of the cost of the mac pro is going towards the manufacturing (thermal core and outer casing.. some small run custom shaped boards.. etc.)

i wouldn't be surprised if 1/3 of the cost of an entry nmp is paying for those things.. another thousand for the components.. and 1000 profit..

But every Mac Pro from the 1,1 to the 5,1 had custom design. The logic board was custom, as was the CPU raiser card. The fan casings are custom as was the case itself. The CPU cooler was custom and I guess, the power supply was customized, too.
The only thing Apple did additionally customize for the Mac Pro 6,1 are the GPUs. And this strange SSD connector (which I bet we will not see in the Mac Pro 7,1 again). But otherwise, I think from a production point of view, all the Mac Pros have been quite customized designs.
I think the costs of the nMP might even be cheaper than the cMP. What is different is the price we pay for the Mac Pro. This is the figure which did actually increase.
 
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But every Mac Pro from the 1,1 to the 5,1 had custom design. The logic board was custom, as was the CPU raiser card. The fan casings are custom as was the case itself. The CPU cooler was custom and I guess, the power supply was customized, too.
The only thing Apple did additionally customize for the Mac Pro 6,1 are the GPUs. And this strange SSD connector (which I bet we will not see in the Mac Pro 7,1 again). But otherwise, I think from a production point of view, all the Mac Pros have been quite customized designs.
I think the costs of the nMP might even be cheaper than the cMP. What is different is the price we pay for the Mac Pro. This is the figure which did actually increase.
American labour costs though. Made in USA.
 
Question: correct me if I'm wrong but the nMP GPUs don't have ECC mem, right? In spite of being labeled FirePro I believe the installed mem is not ECC capable. That and using regular desktop chips makes it a cheaper design, and still seem like a pro card.
I'm glad it's made in the USA though, even if it's more expensive.
Still, it's too expensive, and with the price increases recently it's really overkill.
No good skimming on the parts though, I don't think it would lower that much, and you'd get a not so pro machine, that's not their intent.
 
MacBooks remain the laptops to beat, but Apple's current desktop lineup is a slap in the face.

Base Minis and iMacs have 5400rpm HDD's in them. Three years ago they all had 7200rpm HDD's. Upgrades to decent storage (SSD) come at extortionist prices. I can't think of any reason why Apple would downgrade their default desktop storage, other than pure greed.

As for the nMP, while I like it from a design POV, I think the upsell isn't really worth it. I would have to buy a 4-slot Thunderbolt bay for my HDD's, and I'm not very confident that Apple and Intel will continue to develop/support Thunderbolt if wider adoption doesn't happen.

Their latest computer does not have Thunderbolt. Just sayin'...
 
Yeah, they launched also the enterprise drives (15TB - wow) but also the 953.
Now I believe we'll have the 2TB option for nMP, if Apple so wants.
Let's hope they'll find some other place to fit it in there, not again on one of the GPUs. That was a serious bad decision. Instead od only one SKU and identical parts, having different cards was really stupid. Or maybe there's a good reason for it, I guess Apple doesn't make all that bad decisions just because.
 
Yeah, they launched also the enterprise drives (15TB - wow) but also the 953.
Now I believe we'll have the 2TB option for nMP, if Apple so wants.
Let's hope they'll find some other place to fit it in there, not again on one of the GPUs. That was a serious bad decision. Instead od only one SKU and identical parts, having different cards was really stupid. Or maybe there's a good reason for it, I guess Apple doesn't make all that bad decisions just because.
It would be tough to fit in the current nMP design. The big heat sink on the PM953 is there for a reason. When SSD writes at that speed the chips get very hot.
 
That's why they have to figure out another spot to place it... :)
Let's wait for the reviews. Availability should not be immediate.

OS X 10.10.5 out now, as well as iOS 8.4.1, the end of Yosemite? Last update before El Cap?
 
Yeah, they launched also the enterprise drives (15TB - wow) but also the 953.
Now I believe we'll have the 2TB option for nMP, if Apple so wants.
Let's hope they'll find some other place to fit it in there, not again on one of the GPUs. That was a serious bad decision. Instead od only one SKU and identical parts, having different cards was really stupid. Or maybe there's a good reason for it, I guess Apple doesn't make all that bad decisions just because.

I was actually thinking about this. What makes a GPU a "mobile" variant?

Typically some functional units cut off, clocks lowered, RAM reduced. And then placed on a PCB with edge connector and no direct display outputs on card.

Is this not in fact what is already in nMP?

Why not just use MXM boards? Use nMP proprietary daughter cards, and have them allow Mxm to attach and pass heat through to fins. Since MXM already has no output ports, would be pretty easy to incorporate into the silly "must have display output" rule for TB.

As has been shown, there are no shipping AMD top tier cards that are even within spitting distance of nMP GPU power/heat compromises, this would allow much greater options in future.

BTW, I'm not even suggesting that this is likely, it would make far too much sense and give users WAY too much control, but it would be an honest, though less pretty solution.
 
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But every Mac Pro from the 1,1 to the 5,1 had custom design. The logic board was custom, as was the CPU raiser card. The fan casings are custom as was the case itself. The CPU cooler was custom and I guess, the power supply was customized, too.
The only thing Apple did additionally customize for the Mac Pro 6,1 are the GPUs. And this strange SSD connector (which I bet we will not see in the Mac Pro 7,1 again). But otherwise, I think from a production point of view, all the Mac Pros have been quite customized designs.
I think the costs of the nMP might even be cheaper than the cMP. What is different is the price we pay for the Mac Pro. This is the figure which did actually increase.
cmp was a lot easier/faster to manufacture than the new one.. it was sheet metal fab.
nmp-- not so easy.. multiple steps per object.. fine finish fine detail. etc

 
.
Edit duh was thinking of enterprise drives, too expensive

Unless you're actually in an enterprise.

I think that $580 for a 1.2 TB 10K dual port 12 Gbps SAS drive with a 3 year warranty is a steal!

My current bargain price for 30TB disk drives (arrays) is about $800/TB ($24K).

The 30TB array is 25 1.2 TB disks at $580, ($14.5K) plus a dual controller, dual power supply, 12 Gbps SAS switch and chassis. It can be daisy-chained on dual 48 Gbps SAS links for 7 to 31 cabinets. (That's 960 TB...)

No, there isn't a T-Bolt dongle for it - T-Bolt is simply too slow....
 
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cMP has both Al and Steel, and also has a painted finish

Toss in the VAST quantity of more materials (i.e., your $2500 literally bought you "more computer") and the MONUMENTAL savings on shipping and I think the new one is cheaper. I also would expect that new one gets damaged in shipping a lot less, fewer boards to shake out of slots and landing can rarely crush it from it's own weight like cMP can do to it's own legs.
 
Question: correct me if I'm wrong but the nMP GPUs don't have ECC mem, right? In spite of being labeled FirePro I believe the installed mem is not ECC capable. That and using regular desktop chips makes it a cheaper design, and still seem like a pro card.
I'm glad it's made in the USA though, even if it's more expensive.
Still, it's too expensive, and with the price increases recently it's really overkill.
No good skimming on the parts though, I don't think it would lower that much, and you'd get a not so pro machine, that's not their intent.
If you have shared virtual memory and the system has ECC you don't need in fact ECC on VRAM. OpenCL 2.0 has it.
 
If you have shared virtual memory and the system has ECC you don't need in fact ECC on VRAM. OpenCL 2.0 has it.

Huh?

If data is copied from ECC RAM to non-ECC VRAM, how can the GPU tell if the non-ECC VRAM has a corrupt copy?

It can't, only ECC VRAM will let you answer that question.

These GPGPU systems are not chipset mobile solutions with shared memory. My Titan X cards aren't sharing memory (or at least they work hard to move the currently active data to local memory).
 
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cMP has both Al and Steel, and also has a painted finish

Toss in the VAST quantity of more materials (i.e., your $2500 literally bought you "more computer") and the MONUMENTAL savings on shipping and I think the new one is cheaper. I also would expect that new one gets damaged in shipping a lot less, fewer boards to shake out of slots and landing can rarely crush it from it's own weight like cMP can do to it's own legs.

so basically.. apple is spending less on building the mac pro now .. spending less on shipping.. less on damage.. but charging 20% more than the previous version.
?

the entry nmp should cost ~$2300 if apple used their typical markups which are high to begin with.. then they said "screw it.. let's charge another $700 for the thing"
?
 
so basically.. apple is spending less on building the mac pro now .. spending less on shipping.. less on damage.. but charging 20% more than the previous version.
?

the entry nmp should cost ~$2300 if apple used their typical markups which are high to begin with.. then they said "screw it.. let's charge another $700 for the thing"
?

Yep, that pretty much sums it up
 
haha. ok mvc.
i believe you

glad you've become more reasonable

I happen to have it on good authority that Colt 45 Malt Liquor had extra capacity for 40 OZ cans. Apple bought the machinery for a song, doubled the radius, and the Trash Can Pro was born !

Some people have even got machines with the flip top opener still attached.

It's an aluminum can. Only the Germans (or Apple) could find a way to make production of large aluminum cans expensive.

(and before I get any hate from Germans, my last 4 cars have been German. Anyone else who has worked on them can agree that if there is a way to make something more complicated yet appear simple on outside, the Germans can)

Al itself is around 1/2 of it's price from 2008-9
 
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