Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015?

[ManuelGomes]

The process of making a soda can and the nMP is not exactly the same. Taking a solid block, pressing it and machining it to final shape is not the same as taking a sheet of Al and molding it into shape. The process speed and unit count should also be different. Still, pretty much both are factory automation solutions that I know.
MVC, I happen to work for a German company and I know what you mean. German products are usually more expensive than most, but also very high quality. We have this problems competing with other brands, and if you factor in the Asian manufacturers, worse yet. But I appreciate the German way of working very precisely and timely. The drawback (most would say) is that they won't move an inch from what is planned nor give it an extra minute - we here are very flexible and the rigid way of the Germans sometimes is not very well understood.

3500€ (here) for base model is indeed a ton of money, at least for the current gear.
It's hard to justify such a high price for "old" hardware, maybe they have kept and even increased prices to make up for the investment in the US factory, maybe they didn't brake even yet. But that surely must not be helping sales.

You can do ECC in "software" at the expense of some of the memory and a performance penalty.

TSMC started FinFET 16 mass production. For A9 first maybe?

 

[coccosoids]

3500€ (here) for base model is indeed a ton of money, at least for the current gear.
It's hard to justify such a high price for "old" hardware, maybe they have kept and even increased prices to make up for the investment in the US factory, maybe they didn't brake even yet. But that surely must not be helping sales.

Yes. This! Many do not realize how expensive the mac pro is anywhere else outside of the USA.

In the meantime, I've found this on youtube:

Maybe relevant?!

 

[koyoot]

There is a slight chance that Apple would not update the Mac Pro design in so long because they were busy making it... working properly(see the threads with posts where things are not working well in nMP), and... Water Cooling.

I remember back in 2013 where there was a argument about new Mac Pro in a thread started by someone who was declaring that he knew someone from Apple, and was discussing the principles of the new Mac Pro, the inspiration from SR77 Blackbird etc, etc. And he mentioned that there is a possibility that in future Mac Pro would be water cooled.

From my perspective if they would make it working with no maintenance for long time - yes, please from me.

But that is only my pure dream for next update of Mac Pro.

 

[deconstruct60]

Question: correct me if I'm wrong but the nMP GPUs don't have ECC mem, right? In spite of being labeled FirePro I believe the installed mem is not ECC

The installed physical memory on AMD FirePro cards isn't ECC either. ECC is a layered on top of VRAM by the memory controller. Virtual ECC. It means having more raw RAM than what the user sees. [ I don't recall at the moment if Nvidia does it the same way but probably does. GDDR5 memory is smaller subset of the RAM memory market and the "computational" GPGPU cards is an even smaller niche of that nice. ]

For storage drives like HDD and SSD it is a similar thing. The raw storage media itself doesn't do the ECC. The controller sitting on top of the media adds that functionality.

This is a 'Pro' feature that is switched on in the variants that AMD uses but left switched off in the implementations Apple is selling.

That and using regular desktop chips makes it a cheaper design, and still seem like a pro card.

The drivers , certifications, and testing are primary drivers of the "Pro" graphics card mark up. Apple's don't have the full set as the AMD cards but they also don't have the full price either. What do get is the "Pro" version of the Windows drivers and certifications ( on OS X and/or Windows).

 

[deconstruct60]

...
It's hard to justify such a high price for "old" hardware, maybe they have kept and even increased prices to make up for the investment in the US factory, maybe they didn't brake even yet.

Apple owns no USA factory for Mac Pros. It is made by contract manufacturer just like how Apple hires folks to make stuff in China. One of the few factories Apple has left is in Ireland and I think that is a subset of the iMac line up for certain regions. ( probably hooked to enabling the Double Irish with Bermuda twist followed by a Ilse of Man backflip tax shelter they have set up more so than any innate desire to actually make anything. i.e., viewed as cost of buying the tax shelter. )

Apple doesn't take any currency exchange trading risks. If it looks like dollar might fall against currency X then they just remove the risk of revenue shortfall sooner rather than later. On dollar gains they are slower on unwinding that ( because any 'mistake' means more money anyway... so little to no risk ).

Greece playing "let's blow up the Euro to get a better deal " games isn't helping the prices of Apple products in Europe.

You can do ECC in "software" at the expense of some of the memory and a performance penalty.

There isn't necessarily a performance penalty if there is fixed function hardware to encoding/decoding and a wide enough stream to read/write both data and code at same time. Many SSD controllers can compress and encrypt data at 'wire speed' with no slow down when have dedicated hardware to doing the work.

RAM ECC is just same thing with the fixed function pushed down closer to the media on the DIMM card.


Why it is flipped off on GPGPU cards is more so that the addition raw GGDR5 storage is expensive ( in power and cost ) more so than slower. Folks want more textures cached in memory with possible bit errors in them that no one likely will notice than incrementally lower in number but 100% bit accurate textures.

TSMC started FinFET 16 mass production. For A9 first maybe?

Is A9 on TSMC? It would make alot more sense for AMD to go where Apple and Qualcomm are not trying to buy up all of the wafers for months at a time.

TSMC just starting? Er Samsung has been running.....
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8981/samsung-announces-14nm-finfet-for-exynos-7

Throw in you are suppose to be able to offload to Samsung or Global Foundries (ex IBM) fab (since they are 'sharing' same process techniques ) and there really should not be a "stand in line behind the megabuck wafer hoarding folks" problem. There is more than one fab player at this node size.
If Apple and Qualcomm both run to Samsung/Global Foundries then TMSC may be a better option.

 

[sigmadog]

Over 1500 posts in this thread. I'm hoping when we get to 2015 the thread title can be changed to "Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015 posts?"

Personally, I no longer care about the new Mac Pro, having upgraded to a 5,1 12core / 3.46GHz / 64Gb RAM, and Nvidia G-Force 680, all for less than the base-model nMP. This is all I need for work and play.

 

[tomvos]

… [ I don't recall at the moment if Nvidia does it the same way but probably does. GDDR5 memory is smaller subset of the RAM memory market and the "computational" GPGPU cards is an even smaller niche of that nice. ]…

They do the same. You can enable ECC for certain Quadro Graphics Cards in the nVidia Driver Manager Control Panel. It does reduce the available VRAM, so it's the same software based ECC as AMD does.

 

[koyoot]

TSMC started FinFET 16 mass production. For A9 first maybe?

There is no meaningful difference between 16 nm and 20 nm between the fact that front end of Transistor is 16 nm, and back end of it is 20 nm. A little fake, but its true.

Second thing. A9 will be made on 14 nm Samsung Process.

 

[BillyBobBongo]

Personally, I no longer care about the new Mac Pro, having upgraded to a 5,1 12core / 3.46GHz / 64Gb RAM, and Nvidia G-Force 680, all for less than the base-model nMP. This is all I need for work and play.

Last year I purchased a Thunderbolt display with a view to picking up a nMP at some point this year. As time has gone by I too have decided to put my money in to a 5,1...especially given the weakness of the Euro / Apple's choice to raise the price on the nMP.

I wonder how many others are making the same decision.

 

[fuchsdh]

Given how Apple has never particularly been interested in upgrading their machines for every minor revision, I guess the bigger question is whether they would produce a new Mac Pro with TB3 without Skylake, or whether they'd pair them together... ostensibly it's all a matter of controllers so the processor wouldn't particularly matter would it?

 

[Thunderbird]

Over 1500 posts in this thread. I'm hoping when we get to 2015 the thread title can be changed to "Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015 posts?"

Personally, I no longer care about the new Mac Pro, having upgraded to a 5,1 12core / 3.46GHz / 64Gb RAM, and Nvidia G-Force 680, all for less than the base-model nMP. This is all I need for work and play.

The sooner the 2015 nMP arrives, the sooner we can start a "Will there be a New Mac Pro in 2016?" thread.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Yes. This! Many do not realize how expensive the mac pro is anywhere else outside of the USA.

In the meantime, I've found this on youtube:

Maybe relevant?!

Makes nMP look crap. Would make a great Steam machine.

 

[ManuelGomes]

cocco, Project Quantum seems to be just a show off, even AMD says it might not make it to production, unless someone picks up production. They had the heart to make it (mostly) available with Intel processors, due to performance, but you can have it with AMD procs also

WC Mac Pro seems unlikely, they'd have to overhaul the design once more. Maybe later on?

dec, not so sure about that. ECC requires additional chips for the correct codes, and that exists in same boards. The soft ECC is available in many cards, including NVidia. The same holds true for modern SSDs, where part of the capacity is reserved for additional functionality.
The main argument for Pro cards is indeed certification with ISVs, optimized drivers and "special" functionality, which usually can enable or disabled in software.

I didn't say Apple built a factory, it is in fact owned by Foxconn in Texas, but there must have been a great deal of investment from Apple as I don't believe Foxconn would convert the facility just because Apple wants them to. At least some sort of compromise must have been reached. Although we all know that Apple pushes their suppliers out of their pants...

Both 14nm and 16nm are the same, 20nm really, only measured from different points. It's just marketing bulls#%t to make it look like a smaller node, and in fact it's 20nm all along. Intel has the advantage still, they go with the real deal.
Still not sure if Apple will go TSMC or Samsung, everyday you see rumors of both I guess. They'll probably split, Apple doesn't like to be dependent on any one supplier anyway.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Capitan, why crap? Would you want one of those? Steam might even make them, AMD might try to persuade them to. And then you can buy yourself one.
To me, it looks more like a console, and if games are your thing, this is definitely for you.

Apple is tied up in developing the self driving car it seems, and the 6S as well, so no time for the nMP. OK, we'll have the same talk as before, it's not the same tam, but still the priorities are well defined I guess.

 

[zephonic]

Apple owns no USA factory for Mac Pros. It is made by contract manufacturer just like how Apple hires folks to make stuff in China. One of the few factories Apple has left is in Ireland and I think that is a subset of the iMac line up for certain regions.

I didn't say Apple built a factory, it is in fact owned by Foxconn in Texas, but there must have been a great deal of investment from Apple as I don't believe Foxconn would convert the facility just because Apple wants them to. At least some sort of compromise must have been reached.

http://******.com/?q=mac+pro+manufacturing+usa#

From MacRumors:

Apple's Mac Pro manufacturing facility is run by Flextronics as part of an initiative to bring manufacturing of some Apple products back to the United States. While it is currently a limited effort given the relatively low volume of Mac Pro production, it has received considerable attention.

Flextronics' Mac Pro facility is roughly a mile from Apple's new Austin campus, which is actually an expansion of the company's long-standing operations campus in the city. The campus expansion is major effort that will see Apple investing $300 million to add at least 3,600 workers at the site by 2021. The overall project will encompass roughly one million square feet of space, with the just-opened first phase including two out of a planned six buildings on the site.

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/06/cook-visits-mac-pro-factory/

And:

Cook on Tuesday settled the question of where, telling the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations that the assembly facility would be located in Texas.

"We're investing $100m to build a Mac product line here in the US," Cook said, according to All Things Digital. "The product will be assembled in Texas, include components made in Illinois and Florida, and rely on equipment produced in Kentucky and Michigan."

http://allthingsd.com/20130522/apples-made-in-usa-mac-will-be-built-in-texas/

Latest supplier responsibility support:

http://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/our-suppliers/

 

[mattspace]

Yes. This! Many do not realize how expensive the mac pro is anywhere else outside of the USA.

In Australia, once currency differences and sales taxes are taken into account, the base nMP started, in real terms, at around AU$1000 more than the American price, and the gap widened from there. For perspective, that price gap was the (cheap) cost of my 2nd hand stock 2009 dual. I've also never seen a refurb nMP offered here, my suspicion is they all get shipped back to the US market.

 

[AidenShaw]

The sooner the 2015 nMP arrives, the sooner we can start a "Will there be a New Mac Pro in 2016?" thread.

More likely that the title of this thread will be changed to "Will there be a New Mac Pro in 2016?" than an nnMP in 2015.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Zeph, my mistake. Great supplier list link, thanks.
Most suppliers are from China, no surprise there. There is one local supplier, Vishay. Don't know what they supply from here or for what devices.

Aiden, looks more and more like 2016 will be the year of the nnMP. If not 2017, but that would be too much, even for Apple and Mac Pro.

 

[Bradleyone]

Next week's Intel Developer Forum might help the tea leaves crystallize?

There could be a small chance of something that could help Apple with an imminent update. Even though the E3-1500v5 platform has been thoroughly demolished as having anything to do the Mac Pro, at least it showed Intel can surprise.

If nothing else the IDF might show if Broadwell-EP is on track, hinting at a 2016 Q1 release, or abandoned, suggesting Apple could do a better-than-waiting-forever October 2015 release with currently shipping tech.

 

[coccosoids]

In Australia, once currency differences and sales taxes are taken into account, the base nMP started, in real terms, at around AU$1000 more than the American price, and the gap widened from there. For perspective, that price gap was the (cheap) cost of my 2nd hand stock 2009 dual. I've also never seen a refurb nMP offered here, my suspicion is they all get shipped back to the US market.

I don't know how much is the AU$, but I can tell you that the retail price of the entry Mac Pro, once converted back into US$ is 4129.78 roughly (this is Europe, Romania). Which is sad. I was considering buying a nMP for my personal workstation, even with the performance differential. I was going to call it the 'sanity premium', for the os and really the aesthetics of the product. Which, even if not that impressive are still a lot better than much of the PCs out there.

But now I am seriously reconsidering, since the performance gap is too much to be ignored for me - and, for my needs the AMDs really serve no purpose.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I don't know how much is the AU$, but I can tell you that the retail price of the entry Mac Pro, once converted back into US$ is 4129.78 roughly (this is Europe, Romania). Which is sad. I was considering buying a nMP for my personal workstation, even with the performance differential. I was going to call it the 'sanity premium', for the os and really the aesthetics of the product. Which, even if not that impressive are still a lot better than much of the PCs out there.

But now I am seriously reconsidering, since the performance gap is too much to be ignored for me - and, for my needs the AMDs really serve no purpose.

Don't buy it ever. It will only encourage Apple to make more overpriced underspecced in un-upgradable machines. If we wanted a desktop iPad we would buy an iMac.

 

[ixxx69]

I don't know how much is the AU$, but I can tell you that the retail price of the entry Mac Pro, once converted back into US$ is 4129.78 roughly (this is Europe, Romania). Which is sad. I was considering buying a nMP for my personal workstation, even with the performance differential. I was going to call it the 'sanity premium', for the os and really the aesthetics of the product. Which, even if not that impressive are still a lot better than much of the PCs out there.

But now I am seriously reconsidering, since the performance gap is too much to be ignored for me - and, for my needs the AMDs really serve no purpose.

That's fair enough, but you could say that about all Apple products... the base Mac Mini is 33% higher in Romania as well.

 

[ixxx69]

Don't buy it ever. It will only encourage Apple to make more overpriced underspecced in un-upgradable machines. If we wanted a desktop iPad we would buy an iMac.

Right, because it doesn't fit your needs, no one should buy it.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Right, because it doesn't fit your needs, no one should buy it.

It doesn't fit anyone's needs except a science lab that needs error correcting memory and has the budget for it. It's pointless for multimedia or gamers. I even take the position that the machine is completely pointless as you can build a PC with same or better specs and expand ability for less. I'm not going to debate this. Just go back to the last 1000000000 comments of this forum and see the the criticism it already got.

 

[flat five]

Just go back to the last 1000000000 comments of this forum and see the the criticism it already got.

not really saying much.. the 1000000000 comments are from the same 100 people saying the same thing 10million times each.
; )