Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015?

[goMac]

ironically a future nMP may wind up the first ARM-based Mac, if Apple wants to accelerate that transition.

There is absolutely no reason to move the Mac Pro to ARM. There are a lot of very good reasons not to. I don't think this will ever happen. There's no CPU that's going to get 32, 64, or 128 gigs of RAM on die.

I don't think there are any goods reasons to move any Mac to ARM.

Expect the next release by the end of the year, but just a spec-bump with minor upgrades across the board; no form-factor changes (including no TB3), and quite possibly a quiet spec bump, e.g. with little-to-no time during any of the remaining stage-shows this year.

This is absolutely nutty. Thunderbolt 3 will at least be coming. Other manufacturers are already releasing Broadwell based machines with Thunderbolt 3.

 

[flat five]

Up to now nobody could explain to me what's the benefit of the propiertory connector

benefit for who? apple?

it means nobody modifies their apple computer without apple making a cut.

in the past, apple would make very very little when someone upgraded their mac.. probably only one or two cents for this logo usage:




....
but now, they make money off the connectors.. if you buy an ssd upgrade from owc, apple is making a lot.. or, a lot more than they would if using standard connectors..

this:


...apple makes a lot of money off stuff like that now.. they let that company make lightning connectors.. further, they have control over who can make what.. for instance, it's possible owc could make a 4GB ssd for mac pro but apple says no, only 2GB for now.. and if you use our proprietary connector in a way we don't authorize, we'll sue you.(or whatever)

for us? it means all these types of accessories cost us more.. they have apple tax added even though apple isn't making them or selling them.

 

[pat500000]

is this thread still about whether if mac pro will come out in 2015?

 

[fuchsdh]

is this thread still about whether if mac pro will come out in 2015?

Generally, yeah

 

[flat five]

is this thread still about whether if mac pro will come out in 2015?

still having a tough time realizing nobody here knows the answer?

 

[pat500000]

still having a tough time realizing nobody here knows the answer?

LOL I hear you. I have a good feeling that it won't be far away from releasing update mac pro. Just recently heard intel bringing out skylake for underpowered computers..but who knows.

 

[filmak]

There is absolutely no reason to move the Mac Pro to ARM. There are a lot of very good reasons not to. I don't think this will ever happen. There's no CPU that's going to get 32, 64, or 128 gigs of RAM on die.

I don't think there are any goods reasons to move any Mac to ARM.

This is absolutely nutty. Thunderbolt 3 will at least be coming. Other manufacturers are already releasing Broadwell based machines with Thunderbolt 3.

Dear goMac, I'm very sorry but I have never ever wrote about Arm adoption, the post you have quoted is not mine and I really don't know how this appears to be my post....

My thoughts about ARM are your words exactly: I don't think there are any goods reasons to move any Mac to ARM.

 

[fuchsdh]

Dear goMac, I'm very sorry but I have never ever wrote about Arm adoption, the post you have quoted is not mine and I really don't know how this appears to be my post....

My thoughts about ARM are your words exactly: I don't think there are any goods reasons to move any Mac to ARM.

I understand the ARM stuff, because it gives Apple more control and pundits who are bored with the petering out, unsexy world of Intel processors just want to grab onto something new, and the constant massive improvements each generation of ARM processors brings *is* sexy, and we've reached the point where the processors are actually competitive with certain Intel computer chips.

But yeah, I've never seen an "Apple should move to ARM" think piece that came from someone who actually seemed terribly invested in or needed what an ARM chip can't give us today and won't give us five years from now.

 

[ManuelGomes]

flat, that is so true but by controlling the accessories it should give you some sort of assurance as to the quality of the product. Usually, if that control isn't happening, all sorts of bad quality gear pops up, and for those that only look at the price tag, it usually goes south, stuff breaks easily and you end up buying a better one anyway. I don't like to spend more money on anything of course, but I rather buy decent stuff from the get go than having to waste my time changing bad parts all the time.
And Apple needs to make a buck to support their R&D, right? ;-)

ARM is at the moment no alternative to Intel chips, at least at this level. However, rumors from quite a while back have Apple thinking about the issue. Having a complete solution, top to bottom, of processors based on ARM. iDevices already have them, laptops and workstations could be next. But that might be far off still, performance is not there yet.
I wish Intel (and HP) had made stronger efforts with the Itanium processor, and replace the ancient x86 arch at the time. It was a good proc, slow cause of the emulation and all, but it would have been a great opportunity to get rid of the legacy, decades old arch. Moving down from the server platform to the client space would be possible with the proper segmentation. Software was the problem? Well, didn't everyone adapt to ARM as well in no time?
Anyway, I miss the good old RISC days - Alpha, MIPS... even the 68k :-(

Regarding the nMP, I don't think Apple will skip TB3 now, it seems stupid to not consider it once it's available now. Even if with only 1 controller, or a compromise solution. The problem is exactly that, whatever solution they come up with, it will always be some sort of compromise due to bandwidth limitations. Still, it would be very un-Apple not to be the pioneer with TB3, which is already becoming a fact really.
Again, they're loosing the trend setter train again.

 

[ManuelGomes]

TB is really an Apple thing, the other just join the bandwagon cause Apple has it too, right? The PC world never cared much for these things, only doing it eventually to follow suit.
TB3 is something that fits well with the Apple way.

Skylake at IFA...
Will there be new rMBPs soon? I guess only next year.

 

[deconstruct60]

I understand the ARM stuff, because it gives Apple more control

What control? Control just for control sake .... that's isn't Apple. The allusions to control are typically arm flapping allusions to vague benefits.

Going back to "ROM dongles" to stifle clones? Signed and authenticated boot loaders would do effectively the same thing and feature is already present in Intel CPU+chipsets.

Apple makes them? They don't make ARM chips.

As long as Intel is a responsive contractor to Apple requests there is little to no "control" to be gain by trying to compete head-to-head with Intel on their home turf.

Apple has a tenuous advantage in phones because they purposely made a phone optimized CPU+GPU package. Qualcomm went to market with largely the basic ARM reference design and is having some problems. ARM isn't magically good. Nor is it magically competitive to Intel in base home zone.

and the constant massive improvements each generation of ARM processors brings *is* sexy, and we've reached the point where the processors are actually competitive with certain Intel computer chips.

Competition is a two way street. Intel is also more competitive with ARM. Where they overlap there is alot more competition now than before. For the majority of the Mac line up though, there is no overlap at all. ARM isn't even as good as AMD is in that zone on non corner-case synthetic workloads.

As to the massive improvements ... well there was a boatload of stuff that ARM designs typically left out. The products used in the Mac range of performance already have that stuff and are working on the nth generation improvement, not the first implementations.

 

[deconstruct60]

flat, that is so true but by controlling the accessories it should give you some sort of assurance as to the quality of the product. ...

Intel CPUs are failing in Mac products at a substantial rate now ? Intel products have a spotty quality assurance rate?
What control issue is even remotely present here? Quality control is highly lacking in evidence.

How many iPhone 6's is Apple dealing with QA component issues with this year and how many Macs are having the same issue with Intel components?

 

[goMac]

Dear goMac, I'm very sorry but I have never ever wrote about Arm adoption, the post you have quoted is not mine and I really don't know how this appears to be my post....

My thoughts about ARM are your words exactly: I don't think there are any goods reasons to move any Mac to ARM.

Sorry, I think the wrong person got tagged.

I understand the ARM stuff, because it gives Apple more control and pundits who are bored with the petering out, unsexy world of Intel processors just want to grab onto something new, and the constant massive improvements each generation of ARM processors brings *is* sexy, and we've reached the point where the processors are actually competitive with certain Intel computer chips.

ARM is not competitive with Intel right now. Intel's CPUs for laptops and desktops are much better than what's on the ARM side. They just didn't have phone CPUs until a few years ago (not counting Xscale.)

I don't think Apple is happy with Intel's repeated delays, but they aren't able to take on Intel in desktops or laptops.

 

[ManuelGomes]

dec
You missed my point, or I explained it wrong. I took flat's example with accessories that, if not somehow controlled, you could get low quality products.
Never did I mention Intel processors as being failure prone (they also fail but must have a very high MTBF) nor that iPhones break down due to component failure.
I always had (and still do of course) a high regards for Apple products, and they are great and reliable. If that was not my opinion I wouldn't buy a single screw from them, much less iPhones and MBPs like I did. And sure as hell I wouldn't be waiting for the 2015 nMP (?!) to get one.
What I said (or tried to say unsuccessfully it seems) is that Apple makes money on things they don't make (cables, connectors, accessories) but at least you can expect a good product, even from another manufacturer, since Apple controls the whole process, at least we should expect it to be so.
No need to come down so hard now, I hope this clarifies it. I read again my post and to me it seems clear that I was not bashing any Apple product, not even remotely, or Intel's for that matter - never mentioned Intel for a fact in that context actually.

 

[fusionid]

IMHO The new mac pro will have USB-C which will eventually fade thunderbolt plug out in the next 5 years or so.

Why?

http://appleinsider.com/articles/15...b-c-connector-transfer-speeds-of-up-to-40gbps

It will just be a TB3.

We will have to see what the imac upgrade will bring as that will set the pace. Looks like imacs will be updated early next year. I feel USB-C is a given due to adoption in the macbook.

 

[ManuelGomes]

TB2 uses mDP plug and TB3 uses USB Type C plug, all existing standard plugs and not specific to TB.
Apple might consider using both TB3 and TB2 controllers in the nMP as to allow people who have "legacy" TB2 hardware (think TBD, external drives...) to still use those. Or go all TB3 and provide adapters from mDP to USB Type C.
Skylake will be in full swing in Q1'16 so we can expect iMac and rMBP/rMB/MBA updates next year. nMP is still a mistery but hopefully Apple won't wait for Skylake Xeons.

 

[VirtualRain]

TB2 uses mDP plug and TB3 uses USB Type C plug, all existing standard plugs and not specific to TB.
Apple might consider using both TB3 and TB2 controllers in the nMP as to allow people who have "legacy" TB2 hardware (think TBD, external drives...) to still use those. Or go all TB3 and provide adapters from mDP to USB Type C.
Skylake will be in full swing in Q1'16 so we can expect iMac and rMBP/rMB/MBA updates next year. nMP is still a mistery but hopefully Apple won't wait for Skylake Xeons.

I was always skeptical of a Haswell refresh... The performance gains just weren't there. I think with Skylake now out, that kills any hope for a Haswell refresh for the Mac Pro. It would be perceived as obsolete at launch.

So in my opinion, the next likely update would be Broadwell-EP or Skylake-EP and the rumors suggest a delay and short life for Broadwell-EP so maybe it makes most sense to update on Skylake-EP?

http://m.fool.com/investing/general/2014/12/09/what-does-intel-corporations-broadwell-e-delay-mea

So, maybe this time next year?

 

[avkdm]

Mac Pro is dead in the water
http://gizmodo.com/heres-the-box-that-can-turn-your-puny-laptop-into-a-gra-1724958260
Its just a matter of time!
Once there is powerful graphics solutions outside the desktop, powerful portable laptops will be the go to machine. Its inevitable.
This may also explain Apples lethargy in providing high end graphics in their lineup of late.

 

[fuchsdh]

Mac Pro is dead in the water
http://gizmodo.com/heres-the-box-that-can-turn-your-puny-laptop-into-a-gra-1724958260
Its just a matter of time!
Once there is powerful graphics solutions outside the desktop, powerful portable laptops will be the go to machine. Its inevitable.
This may also explain Apples lethargy in providing high end graphics in their lineup of late.

Doesn't mean any computer is dead in the water, it means that in the future people might spring for eGPUs instead, especially if they want to swap around their GPU power. I know I'd probably take a hard look at an eGPU to swap between my desktop and laptop depending on where I'm working, because if you're servicing two or more computers then it might make some configurations more feasible.

It's still a matter of pack-in versus add-on, though—Thunderbolt peripherals were always a good fit for the sort of stuff my studio does, but if you've got dedicated boxes with PCIe cards that are always going to be leveraged the same way or you have enough money to outfit every computer, then their advantages are greatly lessened.

In this case, your use case would have to justify the possibly-$1K expansion chassis cost.

 

[displayator]

I am worried that the market for these eGPU is too small to justify a company building it.
Gamers with the budget to afford a TB3 eGPU could probably afford an Alienware/home pc.
The market for such a product are the MacBook , MB Air & MB Pro 13" . Get an ultra portable for going to classes / clients but keep a proper gpu for the home. A game or photoshop performance would also end up being limited by the CPU too (possibly the PCI latency/bandwith as well). Would an eGPU really offer so much benefits over the new skylake iGPU to be worth the extra cost (probably in the $700/1k ) and hassle to enough people to make it a viable product for a company?

 

[goMac]

The market for such a product are the MacBook , MB Air & MB Pro 13" . Get an ultra portable for going to classes / clients but keep a proper gpu for the home.

That's a lot of people.

A game or photoshop performance would also end up being limited by the CPU too (possibly the PCI latency/bandwith as well).

Laptops are shipping with fast dual or quad core chips. No problem at all.

Would an eGPU really offer so much benefits over the new skylake iGPU to be worth the extra cost (probably in the $700/1k ) and hassle to enough people to make it a viable product for a company?

eGPUs are much faster than the Skylake iGPUs, and are cheaper than buying a desktop with the same GPU.

 

[Arron Rouse]

Doesn't mean any computer is dead in the water, it means that in the future people might spring for eGPUs instead, especially if they want to swap around their GPU power. I know I'd probably take a hard look at an eGPU to swap between my desktop and laptop depending on where I'm working, because if you're servicing two or more computers then it might make some configurations more feasible.

It's still a matter of pack-in versus add-on, though—Thunderbolt peripherals were always a good fit for the sort of stuff my studio does, but if you've got dedicated boxes with PCIe cards that are always going to be leveraged the same way or you have enough money to outfit every computer, then their advantages are greatly lessened.

In this case, your use case would have to justify the possibly-$1K expansion chassis cost.

The eGPU idea is not a new idea.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1027197/atis-radeon-to-move-to-separate-case
Note the author and the date

In my opinion, it's the logical conclusion. If you need CPU power but not graphics power, stack up the NUCs. If you need graphics power but not CPU power, stack up the eGPUs.

 

[aloshka]

Sorry I didn't go through the entire thread, 80 pages is a lot. I also used search but didn't find anyone asking the question.

Can Haswell-EP be used with TB3 and USB-C? Or only the next gen Xeon can do that?

 

[RoastingPig]

Sorry I didn't go through the entire thread, 80 pages is a lot. I also used search but didn't find anyone asking the question.

Can Haswell-EP be used with TB3 and USB-C? Or only the next gen Xeon can do that?

skylake-e for usb-c all features/t3...usb-c data transfers only can be done on all mac pros with add in card to pcie or a thunderbolt to pcie box

 

[Stacc]

Sorry I didn't go through the entire thread, 80 pages is a lot. I also used search but didn't find anyone asking the question.

Can Haswell-EP be used with TB3 and USB-C? Or only the next gen Xeon can do that?

Haswell-EP can use thunderbolt 3/USB-C. However, bandwidth limitations from the processor may limit how many thunderbolt controllers and ports can be used. This same limitation exists for Haswell-EP's successor Broadwell-EP that is rumored to be released in Q1 2016.