Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[sublunar]

It may not be so much about "sensitivity" as "experience". Folks buying 2TB or 3TB Fusion Drives likely are doing so because they have large amounts of data that relatively immune to the access and transfer speeds of the media hosting it - items like photos, music and video.

128GB seems laughably small to those of us who have 512GB or larger SSDs (I have been 1TB for my last two iMacs), but if that is enough to hold the OS and the productivity applications those users predominately access, then they are getting the speed they need for the applications they interact with.

This is why while I support the concept of Fusion Drives, I continue to pillory Apple for reducing the size of the companion SSD on the 1TB model to 24GB (and then 32GB) from 128GB. That I see as a willful attempt to punish an end-user for their choice.

One small fix that Apple can do is to restore the SSD portion of the Fusion Drive to 128Gb, and the amount of SSD in a Fusion drive is important if the iMac is likely to be fitted with as much as 128Gb of RAM. In that case they should actually increase the SSD segment of the Fusion drive to 256Gb which should make performance much better.

But in any event, Apple should be looking at bumping the standard RAM and/or CPU to at least Coffee Lake Refresh 9th generation if there is no will to use the Comet Lake CPUs this time around.

I would like to see Apple drop the 256GB option from the iMac line-up and just offer 512GB as the base model because I think 256GB is too small (I can accept it on the Air and the Mac mini for their markets). But since they still offer 256GB as the base storage for the 2020 MacBook Air and 2020 Mac mini, I am not holding my hopes up - doubly so since the 24" iMac is supposed to be "cheaper" which scares me on a number of levels and not just storage.

Put it this way, Apple are now selling MacBook Pros with 16Gb of RAM as standard, starting with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD, for $1799.

For $1499 you can have an 8Gb RAM, 512Gb SSD storage MacBook Pro 15w product.

You have to go all the way down to the base $1299 MacBook Pro 15w SKU to get just 256Gb storage.

So while 512Gb SSD would be the very least amount of SSD that a stock iMac should be rocking, there is now significant argument that the 27" iMac should now come with 16Gb RAM as standard since that also starts at $1799.

I wonder how cool Alder Lake really well be, since they are rumored to be taking the Apple approach of having a mix of "low power" (low-heat) cores and "high power" (and likely high-heat) cores. I mean it should be better than Comet Lake and Rocket Lake, but then by the time they actually ship in a PC, Apple might already have "desktop class" ARM CPUs (at least "desktop class" for running macOS and macOS apps).

I wonder if that's the ultimate purpose of Pro Mode as well. This sounds like an admission that the base clock of standard 'high performance' cores is too hot for so called small enclosures. I'm not talking just about Macs but about the Small Form Factor PCs. If Intel have to actually turn off high performance cores in favour of more efficient (low power) cores I can't imagine Apple will be too pleased at the hoops Intel are jumping through in order to catch up to AMD.

Perhaps my solution - to abandon the S CPUs and go to the H CPUs in a smaller 'Air' enclosure is too far fetched for Apple.

No wonder Apple may be pulling the trigger on ARM soon.
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AMD has officially stated that RDNA2 will come out first for PCs and then for the PS4 and XBX.

It would be quite embarrassing to introduce new iMacs with more than one-year-old GPUS in September right when AMD is introducing new cards.

Problem is, hype aside, it looks like it's going to be priced high. If it's that good I would not be surprised.

 

[DrRadon]

I would never deny that fusion drive was a nice thing (though, i never used one). The emphasis just is on "was". It had it's purpose in a time were SSDs were a lot more expensive.

I don't know how many fusion drive iMacs are being sold or if they are only the bait to push a higher price on customers in the sales pitch.

And than there is stuff like this xD

 

[krell100]

Wow that's kind of embarrassing and interesting

 

[Freida]

And you know what is the sad part? That people on this forum still defend spinning drives. Insane!

I would never deny that fusion drive was a nice thing (though, i never used one). The emphasis just is on "was". It had it's purpose in a time were SSDs were a lot more expensive.

I don't know how many fusion drive iMacs are being sold or if they are only the bait to push a higher price on customers in the sales pitch.

And than there is stuff like this xD

 

[pldelisle]

That’s incredibly long. Even Windows 10 boots faster on a spinning HDD. That’s embarrassing. Apple really needs to lower overhead and ressource usage on macOS.

 

[CWallace]

That’s incredibly long. Even Windows 10 boots faster on a spinning HDD. That’s embarrassing. Apple really needs to lower overhead and ressource usage on macOS.

I have used Windows 10 with 16GB on a spinner HDD installations that generally take upwards of four to five minutes to get in a useable state so 93 seconds is not bad.

 

[krell100]

I read somewhere that AFPS is optimised for SSD drives, maybe that is the reason?

 

[Mr. Warbles]

Proud owner of a mid 2010 27” iMac but I am finally ready for a new iMac ASAP so I’m hoping for this month...really don’t want to wait for fall. I’m in music production and can no longer update Logic, plus the left side backlight just died.

other than that this iMac has served me well. Even now I can work in a Logic Pro X flawlessly tracking and bouncing huge files on a 10 year old machine...if I could just update the darn thing I’d keep going with it.

so all this talk about spinning drives and foolish decisions by Apple Has it’s place but in the end they make pretty great long lasting machine. Always room for improvement though. Either way my next machine will have an SSD, 2 TB drive and hopefully thinner bezels.

 

[mindquest]

Proud owner of a mid 2010 27” iMac but I am finally ready for a new iMac ASAP so I’m hoping for this month...really don’t want to wait for fall. I’m in music production and can no longer update Logic, plus the left side backlight just died.

other than that this iMac has served me well. Even now I can work in a Logic Pro X flawlessly tracking and bouncing huge files on a 10 year old machine...if I could just update the darn thing I’d keep going with it.

so all this talk about spinning drives and foolish decisions by Apple Has it’s place but in the end they make pretty great long lasting machine. Always room for improvement though. Either way my next machine will have an SSD, 2 TB drive and hopefully thinner bezels.

Why can’t you update Logic Pro? If it was because of your OS X just updated my iMac 27 inch (late 2009 ) to Mojave using http://dosdude1.com/mojave/

 

[krell100]

Wow Logic X on a 2010 iMac, I assume you're not a heavy user of VST (AU) instruments, plugins etc as I can flatline a 6,1 MacPro pretty easily. Audio only is relatively low load but yeah, modern plugins can be brutal, hence the need for top of the line processors with as many cores as you can afford.

 

[Mr. Warbles]

Wow Logic X on a 2020 iMac, I assume you're not a heavy user of VST (AU) instruments, plugins etc as I can flatline a 6,1 MacPro pretty easily. Audio only is relatively low load but yeah, modern plugins can be brutal, hence the need for top of the line processors with as many cores as you can afford.

I use plugins but I don’t go crazy. I have a lot of effects, EQ & compression in rack and pedal gear so I get most of my final sound before it hits the computer. But, yes I do use some plugins. No issues but I have a pretty clean system.
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Why can’t you update Logic Pro? If it was because of your OS X just updated my iMac 27 inch (late 2009 ) to Mojave using http://dosdude1.com/mojave/

didn‘t know you could do that. Is it stable? Even so I still have the backlight issue and it’s time for something new.

 

[scotttnz]

Sorry but fusion drive is the worst thing that was ever invented. Avoid at all cost!

Worse than hydrogen filled airships, helicopter ejection seats, and inflatable dartboards? That is certainly a matter of opinion.

Fusion drives serve a purpose. I quite liked mine in my 2012 Mac Mini, but that was in 2012, and I probably wouldn’t buy one in 2020, and certainly not one with a 24 or 32GB SSD. But I’ve shifted my bulk storage to an external NAS which is all SSD for noise reasons rather than performance. Now I only need enough Internal SSD for the OS, apps, and active data. 512GB is plenty for me.

 

[ducknalddon]

Yeah. We're (UK) paying more for the iPhone 'cheapo' than the US now.

Azrael.

Most of that will be exchange rate movements, I think something happened in 2016 which sent the pound down the *******.

 

[sublunar]

One story which slipped by me is the report that Intel have now discontinued the 8th Gen Coffee Lake S CPUs that are used in most of the the 2019 iMac lineup. The base 21.5" SKU uses a mobile 7th gen Kaby Lake CPU while the top 27" SKU is already on 9th generation Coffee Lake refresh CPUs.

Last orders can be made until December 18.

This makes you wonder if that counts for the Mac mini (which uses a B version of the Coffee Lake CPU) but also makes you wonder what Apple's reaction is given that they already had a refresh 'ready to ship' update and may have had advance notice of this.

The simplest update therefore seems to involve Apple replacing 8th gen with 9th gen processors in an unchanged line-up. With the lightest of changes to the parts bin Apple could at that point restore 128Gb of NAND into 1Tb Fusion Drives to add more value into the range.

If the 21.5" iMac can't handle the space heater Comet Lake S perhaps this will be the last hurrah for that range before a 23" model arrives later.

 

[sublunar]

Just a little addendum to posts referring to the early release of RDNA2, I wonder if AMD would be planning to rebrand high end RDNA GPUs to slot into a mid/entry level RDNA2 launch range?

Apple certainly wouldn't say no to a cheaper (rebranded) AMD 5650 Pro graphics solution for instance which was more of a 5700 than a 5500?

 

[gusping]

Most of that will be exchange rate movements, I think something happened in 2016 which sent the pound down the *******.

We don’t talk about that day, please don’t remind us... ?
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One story which slipped by me is the report that Intel have now discontinued the 8th Gen Coffee Lake S CPUs that are used in most of the the 2019 iMac lineup. The base 21.5" SKU uses a mobile 7th gen Kaby Lake CPU while the top 27" SKU is already on 9th generation Coffee Lake refresh CPUs.

Last orders can be made until December 18.

This makes you wonder if that counts for the Mac mini (which uses a B version of the Coffee Lake CPU) but also makes you wonder what Apple's reaction is given that they already had a refresh 'ready to ship' update and may have had advance notice of this.

The simplest update therefore seems to involve Apple replacing 8th gen with 9th gen processors in an unchanged line-up. With the lightest of changes to the parts bin Apple could at that point restore 128Gb of NAND into 1Tb Fusion Drives to add more value into the range.

If the 21.5" iMac can't handle the space heater Comet Lake S perhaps this will be the last hurrah for that range before a 23" model arrives later.

Chance of a new Mac mini? Count me in!

 

[Dave245]

I've noticed that delivery dates for the iMac have slipped to after June 22nd, ie the keynote date. But that is only for the 27" so far.

I do wonder if Apple will drop a new iMac before WWDC, maybe this upcoming week? Tuesday or Wednesday perhaps. If it's not a major redesign and we see a bezel reduction and improved specs, it might worth Apple just doing a press release and online launch, similar to what they did with this years MacBook Air and iPad Pro's. If they did that, I would buy a new iMac with thinner bezels and the 5K screen.

 

[Azrael9]

Most of that will be exchange rate movements, I think something happened in 2016 which sent the pound down the *******.

That is a contributing factor. But when it went the 'other' way, Apple were slow to readjust accordingly. I remember that much.

Azrael.

 

[ssong]

This tweet seems to suggest RDNA and Comet Lake-S chips

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264243697543114752

 

[Azrael9]

I've noticed that delivery dates for the iMac have slipped to after June 22nd, ie the keynote date. But that is only for the 27" so far.

The 27 inch is the true mainstream desktop flagship. So this ties in with the WWDC2020.

Radical redesign? Substantial respec.

The Fusion drive cast to the trash can where it belong (8 years. That's a disgrace.)

Power. Value.

Azrael.

 

[sublunar]

Chance of a new Mac mini? Count me in!

I guess since there was never a genuine 2020 Mini in March we could see one drop using Comet Lake CPUs which would make it 2 years since the 2018 was released. It could get delayed until 2021 as we're still not sure there's a BGA (soldered) version of the 65w desktop CPUs. In my opinion give the extra heat these CPUs put out it makes more sense to put 45w Comet Lake H into the Mini although Rocket Lake H or Tiger Lake H with PCIe 4.0 lanes would make a more compelling upgrade to me.

I've noticed that delivery dates for the iMac have slipped to after June 22nd, ie the keynote date. But that is only for the 27" so far.

I do wonder if Apple will drop a new iMac before WWDC, maybe this upcoming week? Tuesday or Wednesday perhaps. If it's not a major redesign and we see a bezel reduction and improved specs, it might worth Apple just doing a press release and online launch, similar to what they did with this years MacBook Air and iPad Pro's. If they did that, I would buy a new iMac with thinner bezels and the 5K screen.

The 21.5" has been more readily available than the 27" for weeks now. It could well be on the chopping block and ready to limp on until, say, October when a 23" with a cooling system capable of handling Comet Lake could launch.

If the iMac was an unimportant spec bump any time would be fine but if there's a new design in the offing it makes sense to make a bigger deal of it during WWDC - but how does that tally with the story of it being ready to launch at the same as the Mac mini storage bump which did happen? Was there a change of mind at the 11th hour?

 

[Azrael9]

This tweet seems to suggest RDNA and Comet Lake-S chips

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264243697543114752

Good catch.

・CPUはComet Lake-S ・GPUはRDNA GPU →5300/5500 XT/5700/5700 XT →GDDR6 →Navi 10（TSMC N7） ・まもなく登場 ・Wi-Fi 6サポート？（チップセット） ・RAMは最大2933MHz（i7/i9） ・23インチ（年末登場？） ・Not ミニLE

What's this? Comet Lake-S. And? Navi 5300/5500 XT/5700 (and probably the 5700XT BTO.)



Hopefully the ram is 16 gigs. And the SSD options are 256, 512 and 1TB.

The Mini and Macbook Pros point to better value coming from the iMac.

Azrael.
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I guess since there was never a genuine 2020 Mini in March we could see one drop using Comet Lake CPUs which would make it 2 years since the 2018 was released. It could get delayed until 2021 as we're still not sure there's a BGA (soldered) version of the 65w desktop CPUs. In my opinion give the extra heat these CPUs put out it makes more sense to put 45w Comet Lake H into the Mini although Rocket Lake H or Tiger Lake H with PCIe 4.0 lanes would make a more compelling upgrade to me.

If the iMac was an unimportant spec bump any time would be fine but if there's a new design in the offing it makes sense to make a bigger deal of it during WWDC - but how does that tally with the story of it being ready to launch at the same as the Mac mini storage bump which did happen? Was there a change of mind at the 11th hour?

Good point re: the Mac Mini's cpu upgrade path (rather than Apple waiting another two years or four...) There's an upgrade path there. And it would be nice if they could get better iG or a dGPU in there. The current ig in the Mac Mini is simply atrocious. ie. A GENUINE upgrade. (The March release was tepid.)

With the new kit going into the iMac...it's time to bite the bullet, banish the 21 inch (long overdue in my book...should be a 24 incher...) and make the 27 inch better value for the premium coin charged.

That means better cooling. A new design.

Azrael.
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We don’t talk about that day, please don’t remind us... ?
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Chance of a new Mac mini? Count me in!

New (sorry, APple...a NEW(!)...) Mac Mini would be great. Get an 8 core in there. ANd.

...for the LOVE...of GOD...a better IG and a BTO dGPU on the higher end model.

Azrael.
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I've noticed that delivery dates for the iMac have slipped to after June 22nd, ie the keynote date. But that is only for the 27" so far.

I do wonder if Apple will drop a new iMac before WWDC, maybe this upcoming week? Tuesday or Wednesday perhaps. If it's not a major redesign and we see a bezel reduction and improved specs, it might worth Apple just doing a press release and online launch, similar to what they did with this years MacBook Air and iPad Pro's. If they did that, I would buy a new iMac with thinner bezels and the 5K screen.

There's plenty of latitude to boost screen size and keep a similar foot print.

24 and 30/32 inches?

I want the iMac 'infinity' display...

TVs, Dells, HPs...M$...most everything has smaller bezels these days...whilst the iMac is lumbering with those thick panda bagel bezels.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Just a little addendum to posts referring to the early release of RDNA2, I wonder if AMD would be planning to rebrand high end RDNA GPUs to slot into a mid/entry level RDNA2 launch range?

Apple certainly wouldn't say no to a cheaper (rebranded) AMD 5650 Pro graphics solution for instance which was more of a 5700 than a 5500?

AMD Big Navi to arrive before next-generation consoles - VideoCardz.com

AMD Big Navi is a “halo product” AMD has confirmed that their upcoming Big Navi graphics processor will be the first product based on RDNA 2 architecture. This means that the next-generation gaming consoles (Play Station 5 and XBOX Series X), which are also officially featuring RDNA2 based...

videocardz.com

Big Navi. Across the entire product stack.

The rebranded RDNA1 make occupy the very cheaper end of the product stack. Some rumours have suggested they will slot in under the Big Navi as die shrunk rebrands. Occupying that Polaris price range. That would make sense.

Whilst the:

6700 XT Middle.
6800 XT High End.
6900 XT Super High End.

£450, £600, £900?

I expect the £450 to disrupt 4k gaming. AFterall, a PS5 is going to smash 4k gaming real soon.

Azrael.
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I think something happened in 2016 which sent the pound down the *******.

Britain needs a good trade deal with the US and others (as has been muted by the current leader of the USA. After the last leader said 'remain' or be prepared to 'get to the back of the queue.')

Azrael.

 

[Dave245]

Mark Gurman said the iMac was getting a "substantial" update in one of his Tweets a few weeks back. I think WWDC is where we will see a new iMac with the following:

thinner bezels making the 21.5" to 23" but keeping the 27" iMac screen and reducing the footprint
better specs, processors, graphics and so on
possibly updated speakers (Apple's audio team have been killing it lately)
Maybe an update to the screen? still keeping 4K and 5K but maybe improving the colours/accuracy
Space grey option.

IF this is what Apple ends up doing, I will order a 27" iMac 5K to replace my late 2012 iMac! I really hope Apple does this and we see it at WWDC. C'mon Apple make me happy

 

[Azrael9]

Worse than hydrogen filled airships, helicopter ejection seats, and inflatable dartboards? That is certainly a matter of opinion.

Fusion drives serve a purpose. I quite liked mine in my 2012 Mac Mini, but that was in 2012, and I probably wouldn’t buy one in 2020, and certainly not one with a 24 or 32GB SSD. But I’ve shifted my bulk storage to an external NAS which is all SSD for noise reasons rather than performance. Now I only need enough Internal SSD for the OS, apps, and active data. 512GB is plenty for me.

'Served.' Past tense. 2012? That was a long time ago.

Worse that SSD. Worse than the value of a Mac Mini. The Macbook Pro. Even the Macbook Air has SSDs...

Every Mac now has SSD. So there is no excuse in Apple's convoluted Marketing smack talk for the iMac.

Yeah, Mac users can argue for the Fusion Drive and paying money for old rope. It's their money. THIS Mac user will be arguing otherwise.

The Fusion Drive was a transitional kludge when it 1st arrived. It has ancient platters in miniature or compact designs that are ill kitted for such nonsense. Problem is, 128 gigs of SSD fills up real quick then you're left with a slow drive. Or if you're one of the bought in ignorance Mac users who got the iMac with the Fusion Drive after apple inexplicably whittled down the SSD portion down to something miniscule...then what can I say?

People get what they accept. And those buying from Apple Stores with the shiny lights in their eyes maybe didn't know better.

'Here, buy our 8 year old junk...' Apple marketing with a straight face.

Azrael.