Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Manfredi]

That could simply be down to issues with production and sales, look at the iPad Pro. The shipping dates for that are longer (here in the U.K anyway) it's now into July. That in itself doesn't mean there is a redesigned iMac coming.

i've just checked iPad Pro.... here in Italy the same....
you're right

 

[Dave245]

i've just checked iPad Pro.... here in Italy the same....
you're right

I'm not saying that you are wrong, i'm really hoping they do announce a redesign at WWDC. I'm just trying to keep my hopes and expectations down, in case it doesn't happen.

 

[DrRadon]

That could simply be down to issues with production and sales, look at the iPad Pro. The shipping dates for that are longer (here in the U.K anyway) it's now into July. That in itself doesn't mean there is a redesigned iMac coming.

The machines currently sold will be over 460 days old by the time the WWDC keynote hits. SOMETHING will be coming very soon. If it is redesigned and at WWDC like many current rumors suggest or not.

iPad Pro hast just been released and is probably still in it's biggest demand period (and that completely colliding with Covid as it has been released 90 days ago). No one claims there will be a new one next week. I doubt a 27 Inch iMac that is going on to be 15 month old is suffering from to much demand for almost a month now.

 

[Dave245]

No one claims there will be a new one next week. I doubt a 27 Inch iMac that is going on to be 15 month old is suffering from to much demand for almost a month now.

Sonny Dickson has said there will be one at WWDC

 

[krell100]

This thread is the embodiment of hope over experience.

 

[iPadified]

This thread is the embodiment of hope over experience.

...and the corresponding Mac Pro, MBP, iPad Pro, Mac mini, iPad mini, iPhone SE are not?

It is the point of the whole thread and similar threads.

 

[DrRadon]

Sonny Dickson has said there will be one at WWDC

View attachment 924514

Edit: And btw. i was referring to a new iPad Pro that is not expected next week.


Original post:
You got to decide if you want to lower expectations of people or if you want to bring them up. What you are doing right now is egalitarian moving from "people should not get their hopes up" when you see people fantasizing about a redesign and now telling me this after i said "Who knows, might not be more than just a new bump after all".

Non of us here knows anything by fact, all we do is interpretations of leakers and fantasizing about what we, as individuals, desire in a new machine.

 

[krell100]

...and the corresponding Mac Pro, MBP, iPad Pro, Mac mini, iPad mini, iPhone SE are not?

It is the point of the whole thread and similar threads.

Absolutely.. Apple fans sure are an optimistic bunch. It's like the battered wife syndrome of the electronics world. No matter how many times we're kicked in the nuts we keep coming back for more..

 

[Dave245]

Edit: And btw. i was referring to a new iPad Pro that is not expected next week.


Original post:
You got to decide if you want to lower expectations of people or if you want to bring them up. What you are doing right now is egalitarian moving from "people should not get their hopes up" when you see people fantasizing about a redesign and now telling me this after i said "Who knows, might not be more than just a new bump after all".

Non of us here knows anything by fact, all we do is interpretations of leakers and fantasizing about what we, as individuals, desire in a new machine.

My overall point isn't to stop people thinking that there won't be a redesign at WWDC, my original post was that some people are getting their hopes up way too much. It's ok to think that there will be, Sonny Dickson is a reliable leaker.
I just don't want to get my own hopes up so much that IF it doesn't happen next week, i will be really disappointed.

 

[DrRadon]

I´d imagine that, if we move away from iMac 21.5 and iMac 27 inch to:
iMac (24 inch, or 23 inch)
and
iMac Pro (all 27 inch)

that iMac Pro will have a much lower ceiling since for the 7000 - 15.000 iMac Pro (2017) machines there now is the "new" Mac Pro.

So maybe the old iMac Pro will just die. I somehow can't imagine a iMac Pro lineup that starts with "ok for consumer" prices and confuses everyone that just wants to "max out" without having to think about spending 10k on something with xeon processors most average prosumers never heard of.
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My overall point isn't to stop people thinking that there won't be a redesign at WWDC, my original post was that some people are getting their hopes up way too much. It's ok to think that there will be, Sonny Dickson is a reliable leaker.
I just don't want to get my own hopes up so much that IF it doesn't happen next week, i will be really disappointed.

I secured funding for a new computer over a month go by now, i am disappointed in general that there is no new iMac yet because i need it. xD
I'll take whatever unless it's horrendously stupid/massively ups the price.


And i have some legit fears when it comes to a redesign just looking at the MacBook Pro. I just saw a video last night on how that redesign started 2016 (i believe). Keeping the old MacBook Pro around in the lowest price Tier. The mid price tier with no TouchBar, two USB-C Ports instead of every port you would ever need and magsafe, a display that lost it's coating and a keyboard that was universally hated for the upcoming four years, only 256gb of space ect.... Redesign dos not mean "all is better" at Apple... sadly. We can only hope that... if this iMac is a redesign, they don't screw it up.

 

[krell100]

I'll take whatever unless it's horrendously stupid/massively ups the price.

I'd suggest under specced and over priced is a given. It's Apple...

 

[DrRadon]

I'd suggest under specced and over priced is a given. It's Apple...

Check my edit on that post throwing my hands up in the air about the MacBook Pro redesign in 2016 in the final paragraph.

But than again. Technically my iMac 2012 also was a redesign, i think it was the first one with 5mm edge design and i suppose asides the HDD being dead (and Apple replacing it for free despite being out of Apple care at that point) i can't really complain.
It's not that everything is bad initially. I just don't have the trust in Apple that they don't screw a new design up.

 

[The Phazer]

So maybe the old iMac Pro will just die. I somehow can't imagine a iMac Pro lineup that starts with "ok for consumer" prices and confuses everyone that just wants to "max out" without having to think about spending 10k on something with xeon processors most average prosumers never heard of.

Ultimately if the new iMac chassis it built with thermals in mind and the cooling is as good as or better than the system in the iMac Pro there is not much reason for the iMac Pro to exist. It was always a stopgap until the Mac Pro was available - now it is, and a new iMac might well support or exceed it's hardware configuration anyway.

 

[kazmac]

I personally don't feel too much pushed into paying for their services. But this may vary with personal perception.



But for anything at Apple you need an iCloud account. I don't think Apple tracks *you*, but your general usage. Data is anonymized and I personally think Apple is the best in Silicon Valley to anonymize data it collects from users.



But this is fine. New versions comes with security fix and usually less bugs than before. And this is a trust mechanism, a security feature. This is perfectly fine.



I do too. I have a NAS for this. And it works perfectly within the Apple ecosystem. I mount it as a SMB share and that's it. Audirvana is a wonderful audio player, way more powerful than anything Apple could ever build and works perfectly fine with your personal music library stored on remote drives. Don't have to be on iCloud, or you are not limited to the Music app and paid subscription.



I think you dramatize a bit... If you use your devices the way Apple wants it (using iCloud for example), it still work like magics. I hardly ever had a problem in the last few years with iCloud or any services from Apple.

But I use Spotify. And it works with all my devices, including my Watch (okay, it took time for this one).

I though it was more a developer point of view.

Hardly Magic here, but hey that is what difference of opinion is.

No dramatics, I’ve had several issues with my Mac and iDevices, especIally in the last three years.

And when I did finally use iCloud for one back up recently, it was such a mess, I decided I wouldn’t do that again unless this job demands it. And the Apple rep swore the iCloud contacts back up wouldn’t be deleted, it was.

No desire for Apple Music, iCloud, Apple TV, Apple Pay etc. I just want Apple tech that works and stays out of my way. I know Windows 10 has its own share of problems, but I could deal with some of Apple’s shifts if they gave a fig about their hardware and software build quality.

Not trying to derail this thread, I’d love a new iMac that works as great as my last two, but I am skittish.

 

[Azrael9]

And since it’s a custom part, its manufactured in small quantities, thus leading to a skyrocketing price...

Looking at the benches...

MacBook Pro

MacBook Pro laptop with M4, M4 Pro and M4 Max chips. Built for Apple Intelligence. Up to 24 hours of battery life. Liquid Retina XDR display.

www.apple.com

And the BTO options. Apple's usuaual 'you want the best' here's a price 'you'll pay through the nose or lump...'

The 5600M is three times faster than a somewhat anaemic, medicore gpu that Apple put in there as standard. An empty marketing boast.

The sweet spot is the 5500M with 4 Gigs of Ram for £100. (£200 for the 5500M 8 gigs...)

You got most of the performance of the 5600M for 1/8th of the price. I'm not seeing £800 worth of extra performance there. It's a decent improvement over a so-so base card.

Not sure how these perform compared to the eg. Nv 2080 mobile variants.

HMB2 is 'nice and all' as a technology with some good bandwidth. I recall it being '4' gigs on the relaunched 'Rage' Radeon that was supposed to usher in 4k gaming. But apparently, 4 gigs of vRAM wasn't enough at the time for leading edge games.

But it's expensive. Ergo GDDR6. Most of the speed without most of the expense I'm guessing.

'So?'

I'd get the 5500M (if I was inclined to be a laptop buyer) and pile the rest...

...into an RDNA2 eGPU that will 'smash' it in teraflops for £200 more than the 5600M. (Flagship RDNA2 being muted at around £999. With ray tracing. And runs 50% efficient than current RDNA1 architecture.)

I'd rather take use this for gpu rendering or gaming at that to a 'LAN' gaming party...

Azrael.

 

[gusping]

What time yesterday was the news about the 16in MBP GPU released? Hoping for something today and tomorrow to keep me going until WWDC....

 

[Azrael9]

Price, of course.

But how much quality would Apple have to sacrifice to get the price down to the point they could sell 10 million a quarter?

Apple were never the cheapest.

But when I say... G5 Tower at £999. Or iMac at £595. These have been historical lows for those products.

Did they suffer in quality other than Apple's usual skimping on entry products? (Eg. Ram.)

Strangely, the closest anecdote I have is a guy at a 'Mac' store (3rd party) saying he'd pick up one of those £595 iMacs for his daughter. Price to go, eh?

Apple were heading towards 6 million Macs a quarter. But a casual observation says that sales pulled away from that when Apple starting jacking up prices.

I think they'd be at 6 million at least.

But no entry level Mac Mini as we knew it. No iMacs below £1k.

And no sane Mac Pro at £1500-£3k.

A £1k. Isn't cheap. Neither is £1500. £2k. Or £3k. Neither was the Apple display at £1k. (With it's outdated resolution. All they had to do was bump it to 4k.)

People like affordable. That doesn't mean 'cheap.'

Azrael.
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Hardly Magic here, but hey that is what difference of opinion is.

No dramatics, I’ve had several issues with my Mac and iDevices, especIally in the last three years.

And when I did finally use iCloud for one back up recently, it was such a mess, I decided I wouldn’t do that again unless this job demands it. And the Apple swore the iCloud contacts back up wouldn’t be deleted, it was.

No desire for Apple Music, iCloud, Apple TV, Apple Pay etc. I just want Apple tech that works and stays out of my way. I know Windows 10 has its own share of problems, but I could deal with some of Apple’s shifts if they gave a fig about their hardware and software build quality.

Not trying to derail this thread, I’d love a new iMac that works as great as my last two, but I am skittish.

I'd like Apple to get back to 'Snow Leopard' stability.

As for their rent ware. They can keep it. Or anyone else for that matter.

As for iCloud data. I don't want my data stored on someone else's hard drive.

Eg. Adobe. I don't want 'my' artwork stored on 'their' hard drive.

I don't want to pay a 'direct debit' to access my data...or my art.

Rent ware. Debt slave. On their hamster wheel. No thank you.

Want Apple to get back to making reliable software and hardware. With modern design.

Skittish. Why not. It's not like Apple's desktop line of Macs has draped itself in glory over the last 10 years.

Product. Design. Value: specs vs price. Software.

Mere shadow compared to the Jobs era.

Azrael.
[automerge]1592312455[/automerge]

Ultimately if the new iMac chassis it built with thermals in mind and the cooling is as good as or better than the system in the iMac Pro there is not much reason for the iMac Pro to exist. It was always a stopgap until the Mac Pro was available - now it is, and a new iMac might well support or exceed it's hardware configuration anyway.

It's not going to take much to eat up the tier 1 iMac Pro.

How so?

Any improvement to the speakers, cooling cpu, gpu, included ram and ssd as standard with a new design (and it should include all those things...) milestone and the iMac Pro at £5k (at least the entry 8 core version or even the 10 core...) will be rendered mute.

The line might be consolidated which could be done around Xeons scaling 8 core to 18 core to justify the £5k+ prices.

Azrael.
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I'd suggest under specced and over priced is a given. It's Apple...

OUch. True, though. They always were a bit 'greedy.' And they've certainly got greedy-er. I could take it when they were about 20% more than the competition...

Reap what you sow, Apple.

Azrael.

 

[gusping]

Apple were never the cheapest.

But when I say... G5 Tower at £999. Or iMac at £595. These have been historical lows for those products.

Did they suffer in quality other than Apple's usual skimping on entry products? (Eg. Ram.)

Strangely, the closest anecdote I have is a guy at a 'Mac' store (3rd party) saying he'd pick up one of those £595 iMacs for his daughter. Price to go, eh?

Apple were heading towards 6 million Macs a quarter. But a casual observation says that sales pulled away from that when Apple starting jacking up prices.

I think they'd be at 6 million at least.

But no entry level Mac Mini as we knew it. No iMacs below £1k.

And no sane Mac Pro at £1500-£3k.

A £1k. Isn't cheap. Neither is £1500. £2k. Or £3k. Neither was the Apple display at £1k. (With it's outdated resolution. All they had to do was bump it to 4k.)

People like affordable. That doesn't mean 'cheap.'

Azrael.

It's funny. When I younger and the trashcan Mac Pro was around, I thought, "Gosh, what an expensive Mac". Now, I'd happily dump £2,500 on a headless Mac. I suppose times have moved on, and now I need 10 times that to spec up a Mac Pro...

 

[Azrael9]

I´d imagine that, if we move away from iMac 21.5 and iMac 27 inch to:
iMac (24 inch, or 23 inch)
and
iMac Pro (all 27 inch)

that iMac Pro will have a much lower ceiling since for the 7000 - 15.000 iMac Pro (2017) machines there now is the "new" Mac Pro.

So maybe the old iMac Pro will just die. I somehow can't imagine a iMac Pro lineup that starts with "ok for consumer" prices and confuses everyone that just wants to "max out" without having to think about spending 10k on something with xeon processors most average prosumers never heard of.
[automerge]1592301833[/automerge]


I secured funding for a new computer over a month go by now, i am disappointed in general that there is no new iMac yet because i need it. xD
I'll take whatever unless it's horrendously stupid/massively ups the price.


And i have some legit fears when it comes to a redesign just looking at the MacBook Pro. I just saw a video last night on how that redesign started 2016 (i believe). Keeping the old MacBook Pro around in the lowest price Tier. The mid price tier with no TouchBar, two USB-C Ports instead of every port you would ever need and magsafe, a display that lost it's coating and a keyboard that was universally hated for the upcoming four years, only 256gb of space ect.... Redesign dos not mean "all is better" at Apple... sadly. We can only hope that... if this iMac is a redesign, they don't screw it up.

I think a price rise for the 27 inch is on the cards. Hope not. But precadent is there to make us nervous. It had better be darn good value.

Hopefully they'll hold their price. (Not that the current 27 incher at £1750 starting is 'cheap.' Hardly.)

I can understand your reservations re: design after the Macbook keyboard and 'touch meh' strip debacle where Apple jacked up and jacked up the prices. Horrible double whammy. And there were screams about it being too thin for it's own good. And then...losing all the ports. A dumpster fire release.

At the time M$ launched the Surface Studio. And I just shook my head. It seemed like a changing of the guard.

With any luck, Apple will make good on the rumoured 'affordability' of the 23 inch iMac.

I'd like to see one at £799 and £999 with two further models at £1250 and £1500.

For the iMac rebranded to 'pro' starting at £2500 I'd be wanting that 32 inch 6k display.

Azrael.
[automerge]1592313369[/automerge]

It's funny. When I younger and the trashcan Mac Pro was around, I thought, "Gosh, what an expensive Mac". Now, I'd happily dump £2,500 on a headless Mac. I suppose times have moved on, and now I need 10 times that to spec up a Mac Pro...

History. Context. Important stuff.

The same 'because it's pro, bro' arguments were used to justify the price rise to £2.5k Intel Mac Pro (up from the G3, 4 and 5 towers...) as the current £6k price. ('Dude...pros don't mind paying £40k for a pro' machine because...') Yet. Ironically, the 40k pro tower buyers are screaming because it's going to be legacy under Mac ARM.

Sure. But was the G3 tower market of £1350-£2.8k any less pro'? Or the G5 tower that started at £1500-1750? Or the Intel Mac Tower at £2.5k? All of those 'cheap' prices, eh?

The new iMac will make the Mac Pro at £6k seem like what it is. A computer that says, 'Duvet.'

Azrael.
[automerge]1592313425[/automerge]

Absolutely.. Apple fans sure are an optimistic bunch. It's like the battered wife syndrome of the electronics world. No matter how many times we're kicked in the nuts we keep coming back for more..

*Puts golden frame around this post.*

Azrael.
[automerge]1592313526[/automerge]

This thread is the embodiment of hope over experience.

Speaking to the...

The 'human condition?'

Azrael.
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Sonny Dickson has said there will be one at WWDC

View attachment 924514

That's what we're getting.

I can live with that.

At current prices or a price trim would be nice.

Azrael.
[automerge]1592313701[/automerge]

I'm not saying it won't happen, i 100% want it to be true! i need to update from my 2012 iMac. However i remember getting my hopes up last year that they would redesign the iMac (it never happened).

I do believe Jon Prosser when he says that the iMac is ready to ship, i just don't know if it's redesign or a simple spec bump. With everything that has gone on in recent times, it could of easily messed with Apple's decision to release products.

My 2012 has 'walking dead' status.

Red alert.

'Time to buy.'

Last year, I did think we were going to get a redesign. It was over due then.

It's getting one now.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Are you guys willing to buy an iMac with the new Comet Lake CPUs? They’re called “10th Gen”, but they’re still the 5 year old 14 nanometer architecture. This seems ancient, especially looking forward to the 5 nanometer A14 CPU. The iPhone 12 will out perform every new iMac in single core performance and outperform at least the Core i3 iMac in multicore performance. It’s kind of embarrassing to have a desktop computer that performs worse than a cell phone.

Even if you compare it to other Intel CPUs, the MacBook Air/Pros are on 10 nanometer. AMD Ryzen is 7 nanometer. So to launch a new iMac with 14 nanometer is unfortunate.

Yup. You've got a 'phone cpu/gpu that is breathing down the necks of 90% of the world's cpus. Apple sell hundreds of millions of phones and anothe 16-20 million iPads a year. That's what's driving this. It's far bigger than the pc market.

As for buying an iNteL Mac now?

Yes. It's based upon need. My iMac is dead and a Mac ARM Intel isn't available right now. So the next Intel Mac update will more than do if it's a substantial all round and design update. It will make the 2019 model seem very dated...and the iMac Pro seem more expensive than it already is.

I have no doubt the Mac ARM chip is designed to toast Intel CPUs and that's the only reason Apple will do it. That will not effect my decision. Buy now. 'Got to.'

Why are Apple doing ARM? It's a Tsunami. Its where the tech' industry is going. There are more ARM chips out there. And Apple can control it's own timetable and destiny with ARM 'A' chips. And more profit.

Speed.
Efficiency.
Product.

That's why Intel are out. They're holding Apple back on all three. if Tim Cook says it cost Apple growth in 2019...you can bet that Intel were 'toast' (pun intelded.)

Any A14X (suspiciously absent from the recent iPad update...) in say...I dunno...a beta demo at WWCC / Mac ARM Macbook? Is going to give any Intel Macbook a right slapping.

Azrael.
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Are you guys willing to buy an iMac with the new Comet Lake CPUs? They’re called “10th Gen”, but they’re still the 5 year old 14 nanometer architecture. This seems ancient, especially looking forward to the 5 nanometer A14 CPU. The iPhone 12 will out perform every new iMac in single core performance and outperform at least the Core i3 iMac in multicore performance. It’s kind of embarrassing to have a desktop computer that performs worse than a cell phone.

Even if you compare it to other Intel CPUs, the MacBook Air/Pros are on 10 nanometer. AMD Ryzen is 7 nanometer. So to launch a new iMac with 14 nanometer is unfortunate.

Any Mac ARM A14x is going to make the Intel single core performance seem like what it is. A paper tiger. And...put into a product eg. Macbook Air? Macbook Pro? Will make the Intel cpu and the igpu crappics seem prehistoric.

Azrael.
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Cant see ARM chips in the iMacs for some time and it would be odd to release an updated design of the iMac if they were going to change processor in it.

The new design is to move 'Intel' iMacs 'now.'

Possibly A14x in laptops next year. (That's a four million per quarter Mac market...) With the A15 inbound for iPhone.

But as night follows day. The following year the iMac will get the A16x. I expect that chip to go into an iMac and kick some Intel Az.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

The sweet spot is the 5500M with 4 Gigs of Ram for £100. (£200 for the 5500M 8 gigs...)

4 GB of VRAM is unacceptable today. In a laptop of that price, 8 GB should be standard. Especially when the probability for this laptop to drive 2 4K display is really high.
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As for iCloud data. I don't want my data stored on someone else's hard drive.

Lol. Ahhh europeans ....

There is a big mentality shift between euro and US. I think cloud is no evil here, of at least a way less than it appears to be in Europe.

iCloud a very secure cloud service. And I love how it works. How its magics operate to optimize storage, how it syncs, no third party app, it just works. Never had any problem in my last 10 years of Apple user. But it sometimes requires some tweaks, yeah. Might not be as magic as I describe for a newbie.

But I acknowledge for Adobe. I wouldn't want to be tied up with their own cloud service for something as precious as artwork.

 

[Azrael9]

Kuo reckoned in March that ARM was coming to desktops in 2021. Whether that schedule has slipped due to Covid is anyone's guess.

Kuo: Apple to Launch Several Macs With Arm-Based Processors in 2021, USB4 Support Coming to Macs in 2022

Apple plans to launch several Mac notebooks and desktop computers with its own custom designed Arm-based processors in 2021, analyst Ming-Chi Kuo...

www.macrumors.com

Interestingly this guy thinks ARM will come to lower end machines first:-

"Don't expect the first Arm-based Macs until at least 2021 — and these will almost assuredly be on lower-end machines.".

If Apple announces a move to Arm, should you still buy a new Intel-based iMac?

If Apple is announcing a new processor architecture that will obsolete current Macs, should you still buy a current-model Mac, which is shipping with that soon-to-be-obsolete architecture? We help you decide.

www.zdnet.com

It's about what sells the most units.

Intels went into the Macbooks and iMacs back then when the disparity between the desktop and laptop sales wasn't as great.

Now?

With laptop sales in the Mac 4 million range.
And desktops around 1 million range?

The priority would be to get the Mac ARM into something laptop. eg. Macbook Air which probably accounts for most of the laptop sales. And it's here where an A14x could be transformational over the comparatively miserable Intel chip it it...not to mention the iG crappics. The Macbook 'ARM' Air with A14x in it? Fly off the shelves. They could trim the prices to build market adoption at £799 and £999.

We can't rule out the iMac '24' incher getting an 'A' chip next year. But I suspect the year after when the A16X launches. That chip should be the one to put the boot into Intel.

I'd say desktops (given comparative sales...) a year later.

Azrael.

 

[xgman]

Ultimately if the new iMac chassis it built with thermals in mind and the cooling is as good as or better than the system in the iMac Pro there is not much reason for the iMac Pro to exist. It was always a stopgap until the Mac Pro was available - now it is, and a new iMac might well support or exceed it's hardware configuration anyway.

I have a feeling that other than xeon, ECC, etc, the big difference looking forward in the imp may be a more pro line display in comparison to the new imac display. there is still going to be a pretty big jump from imac to mac pro, so I think there is still room for a bridge product like a imp. Anyway, this is all conjecture till we see what will come. And as far as ARM, I still need to be able to work x86 for some time to come, so it won't be for everyone, at least for a while during transition.

 

[pldelisle]

Absolutely.. Apple fans sure are an optimistic bunch. It's like the battered wife syndrome of the electronics world. No matter how many times we're kicked in the nuts we keep coming back for more..

THIS IS SOOOOOOOO TRUEEEEE !!!

And we like it

 

[Azrael9]

4 GB of VRAM is unacceptable today. In a laptop of that price, 8 GB should be standard. Especially when the probability for this laptop to drive 2 4K display is really high.
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Lol. Ahhh europeans ....

There is a big mentality shift between euro and US. I think cloud is no evil here, of at least a way less than it appears to be in Europe.

iCloud a very secure cloud service. And I love how it works. How its magics operate to optimize storage, how it syncs, no third party app, it just works. Never had any problem in my last 10 years of Apple user. But it sometimes requires some tweaks, yeah. Might not be as magic as I describe for a newbie.

But I acknowledge for Adobe. I wouldn't want to be tied up with their own cloud service for something as precious as artwork.

Depends if you trust corporations. Or *not.* Or 'banks' to 'look after' your money. (*Points to 2008...*)

We wait 6 years for a Mac Pro...and they jack the price to £6k. If I was that creative Mac tower market. I'd feel stabbed in the back.

A real Judas moment, Apple. Hope you enjoyed your 6k pieces of silver...

Azrael.