Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[CWallace]

If price was no object, I'd like to see:

21.5" panel replaced with a 24" with 5K resolution
27" panel replaced with a 32" panel with 8K resolution

That way you remain Retina at HDPI and you can connect a secondary QHD (for the 24") or a 4K (for the 32") display and have the same equivalent resolution.

 

[jasoncarle]

I would love to see the new iMac Pro take the form factor of the XDR display, an 8K panel would be absolutely nuts, the 5K is already insane. I expect it won't be more than the 6K of the XDR though. I hope they dont put Xeons in it though, and give us a BTO option of the Dual GPU card from the Mac Pro. I have faith they can do that. My dream iMac Pro would most likely canibalize some low end Mac Pro sales, but I think the people that actually need the Mac Pro aren't buying the low end version anyway.

 

[krazzix]

If price was no object, I'd like to see:

21.5" panel replaced with a 24" with 5K resolution
27" panel replaced with a 32" panel with 8K resolution

That way you remain Retina at HDPI and you can connect a secondary QHD (for the 24") or a 4K (for the 32") display and have the same equivalent resolution.

This actually makes a lot of sense. With MacBooks, apple can get crazy with resolutions, because any external monitor is going to be bigger anyway. But with the iMac, there is a big chance they have to stay with commonly used sizes, like 4K and 5K, to be able to match a second monitor.

So my guess is: They stay with the 4K 21.5 and 5K 27 inch (just smaller bezels), and add a bigger 6K 32 inch, that matches the XDR display. Maybe there will be a 4K and 5K iMac, and also a 5K and 6K iMac Pro. It will also force the 6K iMac Pro users to buy a XDR screen if they need a second display, because there are no other 6K displays around.

 

[sublunar]

If price was no object, I'd like to see:

21.5" panel replaced with a 24" with 5K resolution
27" panel replaced with a 32" panel with 8K resolution

That way you remain Retina at HDPI and you can connect a secondary QHD (for the 24") or a 4K (for the 32") display and have the same equivalent resolution.

The issue here is that Apple's Retina resolution seems to be set as 218PPI.

Dell's 32" 8k UP3218K is 280ppi which means windows will NOT be the same size when dragged from, for example, a Pro Display XDR.

The Pro Display XDR 32" is 6k and 218ppi though. If you look back at my post a little earlier in the thread a 24" monitor would be roughly 4.6K (4608x2592) and crucially stays compatible with Apple's definition of retina at the same dot pitch - 218/219ppi. And with the same dot pitch windows would remain the same size when dragged between displays.

An 8k display could not be economical, nor would it be in Apple's interests at the moment as an external one (to match the main one) would need 2 DP1.4 cables which is not elegant. Dell's 32" 8k monitor needs 2 DP1.4 cables and there's a Thunderbolt 3 solution that does the same assuming a Titan Ridge controller - which the iMac Pro doesn't have.

2 DP1.4 cables is not an elegant Apple solution - something for Thunderbolt 4 (which should double the TB3 bandwidth again) to solve I think.

In the meantime, though, with that theory in mind, we can safely assume a 32" iMac Pro would use a 6k panel as we have an obvious precedent.

But I wager the mere mortals amongst us would be far more interested in a 4.6k 24" iMac - especially if Apple want to take the iMac range into full SSD territory while still maintaining price points.

 

[CWallace]

The issue here is that Apple's Retina resolution seems to be set as 218PPI.

Yes, both the 4K and 5K panels Apple uses in the iMacs are 218ppi. And this is why I expect the iMacs to stay at 21.5" and 27" (if the iMac Pro is staying at 27", they will not offer a larger iMac display).

Dell's 32" 8k UP3218K is 280ppi which means windows will NOT be the same size when dragged from, for example, a Pro Display XDR.

PPI has no effect on window sizing, just sharpness.

An 8K display in HIDPI mode would have an effective resolution of 3840x2160, which is the same resolution of consumer 4K displays. So windows would be of identical size, they would just look sharper on the 8K display due to the higher PPI.

You are correct in that a window on an 8K HIDPI display would resize when moved to a 6K HIDPI display (like the Pro XDR). But the XDR display is aimed at a particular market segment and likely in a single-display configuration connected to a Mac Pro or 16" MacBook Pro. As such, I would not expect anyone connecting a Pro XDR display to an 8K 32" iMac or iMac Pro just as I would expect no one to do so with a 5K 27" iMac / iMac Pro.

The iMac 21.5" is also now effectively a single-display configuration now with the loss of the LG 21.5" 4K display (I am guessing they sold very few of them as I would expect the majority of 21.5" iMacs are purchased due to space considerations so they would not have room for a second display).

The Pro Display XDR 32" is 6k and 218ppi though. If you look back at my post a little earlier in the thread a 24" monitor would be roughly 4.6K (4608x2592) and crucially stays compatible with Apple's definition of retina at the same dot pitch - 218/219ppi. And with the same dot pitch windows would remain the same size when dragged between displays.

A 32" 6K iMac and the 24" 4.5K iMac would effectively be single-display configurations as there would be no third-party display options unless Apple or LG offered them (I don't see Apple doing so, but admit LG might as they did in the past for the 4K and 5K panels though they would be many times more expensive than a consumer non-Retina display of the same effective resolution). This would probably work for most people, but if any Mac is used in a dual-display configuration, I imagine it is the 27" model since it can connect to a 27" QHD display and both would have the same effective resolution (with the 5K display being sharper thanks to it's higher PPI).

I have - and generally need - two displays for my iMac, so if they did go 32" 6K on the iMac, I'd either pay through the nose for the Apple / LG companion 6K display or hold my nose and live with the window resizing. Though to be honest, I would rather do neither. I have a very nice high-end ASUS 27" QHD gaming monitor that I use as my 5K iMac's second display as well as the main display for my Windows Gaming PC and I would hate to have to toss it.

An 8k display could not be economical, nor would it be in Apple's interests at the moment as an external one (to match the main one) would need 2 DP1.4 cables which is not elegant. Dell's 32" 8k monitor needs 2 DP1.4 cables and there's a Thunderbolt 3 solution that does the same assuming a Titan Ridge controller - which the iMac Pro doesn't have.

An 8K display would be expensive, but Apple shipping scores of thousands a month would help knock that cost down fairly quickly. Notice how in 2014 Apple could sell a 5K display with a computer on it for the same price Dell wanted for just the 5K display - Apple's greater purchasing power knocked the price they paid down compared to what Dell was paying for much lower volumes.

As for cost, the current 8K display as Dell uses might very well be cheaper than the 6K display Apple uses in the XDR due to the extra features the XDR offers. Apple can "de-content" the XDR display I am sure, but I still expect it to be expensive enough that they could never hit the $1999 price point (and probably a $2499 one). Of course, an 8K display might very well be equally hard to hit (it retails for $4000 at Dell). Which is why I think we're going to see the 5K 27" continue.

As for connectivity, inside an iMac Apple would just create their own custom timing controllers for an 8K display like they did for the 5K display in 2014. I would not expect Apple to offer an 8K standalone display, but if LG does, it would work with a single DP1.4 lane over TB3. And the 2020 iMac Pro will certainly update the onboard TB3 controller to Titan Ridge.

 

[Moonjumper]

Many people use Macs with two different sized screens because MacBook Pros get paired with a desktop monitor. That is what I used to, 15" MBP + 27" QHD monitor. I then swapped the MBP for a 5K 27" iMac, so I got to sample having two monitors with the same workspace. It is nice, but not so much different. It affected me so little that I had no hesitation rotating my external screen to landscape as that is better for my workflow (although it does mean the top of the screen is too high). Adding the step of an "Alt-green icon" button press makes little difference to swapping most apps between screens.

I doubt not having equivalent sized monitor availability is a major consideration for any future iMac screen sizes. 5K screens are rare, and macOS font rendering means non-retina screens are thought of as important, so 27" QHD screens matching a 5K 27" doesn't seem relevant either.

Yes, matching screen sizes are nice, but I don't think they will limit where the iMac goes next. One possibility is Sidecar extends to Macs, so you could get another iMac of the lowest spec for the size as your second monitor. Even better would be if the 2nd iMac could be configured to act as an external GPU and screen (hopefully making use of the CPU as well).

 

[Shackss]

I went ahead and ordered the base 27 iMac, discounted to €1,845 , taxes included. Got an external thunderbolt SSD and I'll boot up from it + bought some cheap RAM. After the warranty expires, probably I'll switch the internal HDD with an SSD.

Knowing Apple, I am afraid that the next iMac, while might have a larger screen and a better CPU, the ability to remove RAM will disappear and frankly, they would just introduce a base 256GB SSD, so you might end up paying more for that RAM and SSD upgrade.

 

[Voyageur]

It can be viewed as deeper than that. Marketing is huge to Apple, and understanding how they may wish to market these things is a key to understanding how their product lineups will evolve.

They’re not going to make a product that they can’t market. They won’t make it enthusiastically, at least.

This is important for developers as marketers. I'm talking about ordinary users.

27" panel replaced with a 32" panel with 8K resolution

Too much load on the GPU, which, in addition to everything, is far from top solutions.

 

[CWallace]

I doubt not having equivalent sized monitor availability is a major consideration for any future iMac screen sizes. 5K screens are rare, and macOS font rendering means non-retina screens are thought of as important, so 27" QHD screens matching a 5K 27" doesn't seem relevant either.

I agree. Apple is gonna do what they want to do and I'll roll with it when they do.

But I still think we're going to see the same 21.5" and 27" sizes for the 2020 release.

(8K is t)oo much load on the GPU, which, in addition to everything, is far from top solutions.

For general productivity work the dedicated GPUs will be capable of handling it. And Apple would offer more powerful workstation-class ones on the iMac Pro for more specialized work.

 

[MadMitch89]

I really hope a new iMac comes out soon. I want something in-between the 21.5 and the 27. For me, a retina 24 inch iMac with a better look (I like the chin! Don't like the huge bezels) is the investment I want to make as I work from home during the COVID lockdown. Hopefully we get some news soon.

 

[VJNeumann]

Slapping 8K on what is essentially a mid-range machine just seems gratuitous at this point. It's a solution in search of a problem.

You're taking a huge hit to component price, GPU and thermals for what is essentially diminishing returns. The difference between 5K and 8K is nothing like the difference between 2K and 5K. I would understand 6K at 32 inches just to keep the pixel density the same, of course, but anything higher is unnecessary.

Far better to spend that extra headroom investing in higher impact features like HDR, etc.

 

[dapa0s]

So the only rumor so far has basically been from CoinX a few weeks ago?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1235240148452782080

 

[Voyageur]

I want to say that people need to face reality. For professionals, the most top-end solution from Apple has just appeared and this is 6K XDR. It will be the maximum standard for a loooong time. It makes no sense to amuse yourself with illusions and fantasies that in a mass-consumer computer like iMac they will install the same monitor in quality, and even more - superior to the Pro XDR in resolution quality.

 

[jasoncarle]

I want to say that people need to face reality. For professionals, the most top-end solution from Apple has just appeared and this is 6K XDR. It will be the maximum standard for a loooong time. It makes no sense to amuse yourself with illusions and fantasies that in a mass-consumer computer like iMac they will install the same monitor in quality, and even more - superior to the Pro XDR in resolution quality.

I can easily see an iMac Pro inside the 6K XDR display.

 

[Moonjumper]

I want to say that people need to face reality. For professionals, the most top-end solution from Apple has just appeared and this is 6K XDR. It will be the maximum standard for a loooong time. It makes no sense to amuse yourself with illusions and fantasies that in a mass-consumer computer like iMac they will install the same monitor in quality, and even more - superior to the Pro XDR in resolution quality.

I wouldn't be surprised if a top model iMac got the XDR LCD panel, but with a much simpler backlight to keep the cost down.

 

[CWallace]

I wouldn't be surprised if a top model iMac got the XDR LCD panel, but with a much simpler backlight to keep the cost down.

Well the rumors are the 2020 iMac Pro will get a 27" panel with miniLED backlighting (such backlighting is used in the Pro Display XDR). I don't expect peak or sustained brightness at XDR-levels, it should offer HDR and better performance than the current iMac Pro 27" display.

 

[A_ardvark]

Have we missed the release window for a spring release? Is WWDC the next likely date?

I'm keen to trade in my MacBook (2018) for an iMac. I don't travel nearly as much as I used to and I'd like to switch to an iMac asap. I've been looking at refurbs, but the lack of an ssd is a no go. I'd rather not pay full price for a new model if new ones are likely on the horizon.

 

[724699]

Wondering as well, I'm in need of a new system and am still rocking a late 2015 iMac with the 395x and a Thunderbolt Display. Not that it's not working great for what I need - but 2x Apple retina displays have been on my waiting list for at minimum 2 years now. Getting impatient

 

[sublunar]

At this stage they could release something at any point - even up to the week before WWDC or during that event.

 

[dapa0s]

True, but the complete lack of rumors is kinda hinting at no redesign and a refresh coming later this year, if anything.

 

[724699]

I'm sort of feeling the same here; that there may be something hinted at or announced at WDDC but nothing available until the fall. IMO the main focus to me would have to be on an updated iMac Pro.

From what I can gather, there's only really small spec bumps available for the regular iMac, but room for a solid upgrade on the Pro between updated graphics, CPU, memory and TB3 controller mated to a new screen.

 

[_Skyfire_]

I'm sort of feeling the same here; that there may be something hinted at or announced at WDDC but nothing available until the fall. IMO the main focus to me would have to be on an updated iMac Pro.

From what I can gather, there's only really small spec bumps available for the regular iMac, but room for a solid upgrade on the Pro between updated graphics, CPU, memory and TB3 controller mated to a new screen.

I'll be very surprised if we won't get a redesign. However if so, wouldn't categorize a Navi GPU as a "really small spec bump"

 

[sublunar]

I'm sort of feeling the same here; that there may be something hinted at or announced at WDDC but nothing available until the fall. IMO the main focus to me would have to be on an updated iMac Pro.

From what I can gather, there's only really small spec bumps available for the regular iMac, but room for a solid upgrade on the Pro between updated graphics, CPU, memory and TB3 controller mated to a new screen.

Actually, all the components are in place for a major update.

1. Exterior case design now well overdue. The current 5k 27" model has been around since late 2014 and 4 iterations (Late 2014, Late 2015, Mid 2017, Early 2019) have been released. This compares with 4 iterations of the maligned MacBook Pro with Butterfly keyboard which Apple are quietly consigning to history - I fully expect 14" MacBook Pros later this year - perhaps even at WWDC - to complete the transition back to the 'Magic' Keyboard as soon as suitable Iris Pro equipped 28w Intel CPUs are announced.

2. Comet Lake CPUs - due this year - add back the multithreading that was removed with the Coffee Lake 2019 models - this will add a massive bump to multithreaded workflows and benchmarks. Obviously there's a discussion to be had about which Comet Lake CPUs will get used - logically it would be Comet Lake S desktop class CPUs but I have argued for a move to Comet Lake H (for the MacBook Pro 16") for design, supply chain, and feature reasons. We haven't had it confirmed that Intel will offer the S class CPUs in a format suitable for Apple to solder to their motherboards but given that Intel produced custom Ice Lake parts for the 2020 13" MBA it's not out of the question for Intel to look kindly on requests from Apple.

3. NAVI GPUs (AMD 5x00 series) are a significant upgrade over the old Vega and Polaris GPUs on offer from AMD. And Navi 2 - aka RDNA2 - is on the horizon and will be incorporated into Sony PS5 and Xbox Series X next gen consoles by the end of the year). So RDNA2 is probably going to arrive too late for Apple unless they have a special order in holiday season too.

4. Even without all the new technology available to Apple, a redesign for them would be the logical point at which they do away with hard drives - go 'Pro' for want of a better word - and put T2 and SSD into a redesigned model.

5. iMac Pro parts are read to go now assuming they stick with AMD RDNA parts for the graphics - the AMD5700 for example. If there's a form factor change coming then it could get introduced in a video at a virtual WWDC alongside a redesigned iMac range. It's even more likely that both get relaunched at the same time if there's going to be a product line realignment - I also mooted this in suggesting that Apple could leave a couple of SKUs of the 21.5" 4k model, introduce a 24" 4.6k iMac Air and lower the starting price of an all-new 27" iMac Pro.

 

[macpro2000]

iMac Air??? You’re funny.

 

[Shackss]

So I just got the base 27 iMac 2019. Couldn't be happier. I couldn't wait anymore for a refresh.

1. Maybe it's me, but I think the screen is better than Macbooks. Maybe because it's so large. Such a beautiful screen, so much contrast, luminosity. I used 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2018 macbooks. I'm just blown away by the iMac.
2. I can't hear this damn thing fans. You got the have a defective unit or problems if fans seem loud to you.
3. Mounted 2 external thunderbolt SSDs. One for boot, one for Time machine. Partitioned the internal Fusion Drive for Windows so I can play some games.
4. I still think it's beautiful with bezels.
5. Performance wise, it just flies, plugged in an ethernet cable, I can't believe how rapid this thing is.

After two years maybe I'll take down the screen to replace the internal HDD, but so far, this has been a great deal.