Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[askunk]

AMD NAVI 23 graphics processor gets GFX1032 ID - VideoCardz.com AMD Navi 23 is confirmed Decoding AMD graphics chips is not an easy task. The more products AMD releases, the more likely they are to overlap with different architectures. Not all products are always up to date, so despite being the latest they actually feature last-gen architecture (such as...

Perhaps the 5600M and the 5600M (Mac) differ for the use of HBM in the Mac version.

For a moment my mouth started watering at the thought of a 5700XT with HBM...
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Anyway, the article show clearly that apart from some mobile mid and high range, there is no mid and low range for desktops in sight, based on RDNA2. Just perhaps the 6500XT... but it would not give coherence to the rest of the iMac range.

 

[gusping]

Perhaps the 5600M and the 5600M (Mac) differ for the use of HBM in the Mac version.

For a moment my mouth started watering at the thought of a 5700XT with HBM...
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Anyway, the article show clearly that apart from some mobile mid and high range, there is no mid and low range for desktops in sight, based on RDNA2. Just perhaps the 6500XT... but it would not give coherence to the rest of the iMac range.

RDNA2 is almost certainly not happening for the standard iMacs, or whatever is announced on Monday. It's a shame, because Apple is always a day late and a dollar short to the GPU game.

 

[gusping]

Hoping for some good iMac chat this weekend, everyone. Hype train is picking up speed, the brakes are faulty, and there is no stopping. Let’s go!

Night all.

 

[G.McGilli]

I'm taking a gamble 🤣

I've just sold my iMac Pro - hoping there will be an announcement in a few days for a large screen iMac - and not just an announcement - but availability soon! All my TB3 audio gear is now just sitting here... waiting 🤣

 

[Azrael9]

Hoping for some good iMac chat this weekend, everyone. Hype train is picking up speed, the brakes are faulty, and there is no stopping. Let’s go!

Night all.

Night Gusping.

It's gone very quiet.

Non-disclosure agreements galore?

Azrael.

As i’m app developer, i think iMac is perfect to be first mac for Arm transition rather than MacBooks because.

1 To develop/compile an app, developer needs a desktop machine (Fast enough to compile ARM binary of their app, which may be include large project) not a small MacBook type machine.
2 Desktop market is lot smaller than Laptop market, they can started a transition with lower risk.


ps. FYI iMac is the first retail intel mac. (ADT kit private)

True enough that the iMac would be a decent dev' machine with it's large screen.

But wouldn't a Macbook Pro 'ARM' Mac be able to plug into a large monitor? (eg. The XDR that can rotate to see a nice long portrait length of code...?)

The last transition did start with the Mac Pro Intel dev' machine. A desktop, of course.

But it came 1st to Macbook and iMacs as consumer machines?

If you're going to do a consumer transition, I'd expect for Apple to target the biggest selling mainstream Mac demographic.

These days? That's laptops. Back then? I'm sure the ratio was a lot closer. And in their 'thrust' of being a mobile company...all their marketing is primarily laptop with the desktops de-emphasized.

Tellingly. The 'Hello' is on the WWDC poster with laptops... I'm guessing the iPad's elusive A14x...will be quite a surprise package.

With a Beta Mac ARM laptop...Apple could have them there to buy on the day (surprise!) and walk away with them and get started.

Azrael.
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I'm taking a gamble 🤣

I've just sold my iMac Pro - hoping there will be an announcement in a few days for a large screen iMac - and not just an announcement - but availability soon! All my TB3 audio gear is now just sitting here... waiting 🤣

You sold your iMac Pro?

Well. You'll get a sexy new iMac. But the 'new' iMac is only going to be 8-10 core, I'm not sure what your advantage will be.

The iMac Pro is already what the new iMacs 'should' be bar the design...? It's already got what the iMac is going to bring in terms of spec, cooling, sound etc.

Azrael.
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RDNA2 is almost certainly not happening for the standard iMacs, or whatever is announced on Monday. It's a shame, because Apple is always a day late and a dollar short to the GPU game.

True. And there is little evidence from recent history that Apple is going to offer a cutting edge 'this year' gpu such as the RDNA2 in a mainstream product like the iMac. We've had to wait 'this long' for a 'last year' gpu for the Macbook Pro. Respectable though the 50w envelope performance is of the 5600M. I'd expect the iMac to follow suit with the 5700XT (BTO.)

I think the Videocardz link clearly outlines the Ampere/Nv and Radeon RDNA1 and 2 line.

It's basically RDNA1 variants. Which we already know about. And likely destination being the 27.

As we know, the RDNA2 variants are a couple of months away. If we get them previewed, it suggests a preview of the iMac Pro line. The RDNA2 cat is already out of the bag re: PS5. We've had 'big' tech' previews of the iMac Pro and Mac Pro before.

It depends on how broad the iMac announcement is going to be. Just the 27. 27 plus the 23 shipping later. Or 23, 27 and the iMac Pro.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Perhaps the 5600M and the 5600M (Mac) differ for the use of HBM in the Mac version.

For a moment my mouth started watering at the thought of a 5700XT with HBM...
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Anyway, the article show clearly that apart from some mobile mid and high range, there is no mid and low range for desktops in sight, based on RDNA2. Just perhaps the 6500XT... but it would not give coherence to the rest of the iMac range.

The 5500XT for the 23 inch iMac?

The 5600XT and 5700XT for the 27 iMac?

6500XT. I'd like that as a top end BTO RDNA2 option for iMac. Maybe it will be added later. There is also the 6600M RDNA2. (Mac.) For a Macbook Pro? Later this year?

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Some are demanding an iMac Pro Killer at an 80% discount

Pricing rumours. I guess that is part of this thread. So let's have a look at it.

Nobody is demanding an iMac Pro 'Killer' at an 80% discount.

Let's start with real life examples.

The current iMac Pro is discounted anywhere between 10% £500 off to 20% for a £1000 off to around £4000 and some have been seen for around 30% for £1500 off...for an inducing £3500-£3600. 30% then?

If you configure the 'standard' iMac, you can pretty much get what the entry tier 1 iMac Pro 8 core and Vega 56 equivalent for around £3560 (for the machine I specced out but didn't buy...) About the same price as the discounted (and aged...) iMac Pro entry tier.

So that's around 30% off. Without the bells and whistles of the iMac Pro's sound/speakers, space grey paint and face time camera and yes. Superior cooling system.

The question is. Will 8 core come as standard to the iMac range with a 10 core BTO option being muted by the new generation of INtel cpus?

If Apple offered a 6 core for the £1750.
...an 8 core for the £1945 option...with a 5600, 16 gigs of ram and a 512 gig SSD you're pretty much getting the thrust of the entry tier of the iMac Pro's performance for...

£3000 off.

That equates to the substantial performance boost we've been hearing about. It's not like this is 3 years overdue for the iMac range any how.

Impossible? Not really. Like I say. The tech' on the iMac Pro is...'old.' And Apple don't do price cuts...but they DO add relative value for their price points...every once in a blue moon. We know we're getting SSD, gpu and cpu improvements as standard with a likely boost to 16 gigs of ram. The £5k iMac isn't cutting edge anymore. So any (!) iMac improvement will blow past the Tier 1. Which equates to a massive price cut for 'iMac Pro' like performance.

Therefore? It's 60% off. 'Effectively.' ! ! !

Sure, it's not 80% off . But I don't recall anyone asking for that.

And, in addition, we'll get a sexy new 'Space Grey' iPad XDR design hybrid...likely borrowing the iMac Pro's sound and cooling refinements and that 1080 facetime. So that only compounds the case that the iMac Pro is getting a massive price cut to make the iMac the performer it should be.

...and should have been a while ago.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

I'm ok to wait till fall so that will give Apple plenty of time to get RDNA2. Its also the timeframe for updates so I wouldn't mind having iMac revealed on monday with iMac Pro previewed. After all, the market for iMac Pro is smaller and previewing won't hurt sales as no one in their right mind would by iMac Pro right now. If someone does then I would call that person a Fusion Duck. Sorry but that literally would be the case.
Someone who needs the power of iMac Pro is also someone that knows what tech etc. is on the way and value too. So if the same person buys it now then duck me.
Sorry but there are just no other words.

So Apple has the luxury to preview it and won't hurt anything. In fact, Apple can gain as those machines are often for business purchases also and we all know how businesses like to prepare.

Waiting for the 'fall' was originally my battle plan before my iMac's gpu became fried chicken.

Why? All the convergence of tech' gpu wise, at least, was pointing to the back end of this year with the consoles tug boating the PC gamer towards RDNA2 levels of performance. And if PC gamers were getting the RDNA2...then that had implications for the Mac...in some form. (Though my gnarly cynicism had this down for Summer 2021 for Macs. )

So, anyone who can wait, should ofc (Mad Ducks included...) wait until WWDC to see how the 'new' iMac design effects the iMac range. It may have implications for the iMac Pro. It may not.

But if the iMac Pro isn't mentioned and the RDNA2 isn't mentioned either then 'Ming' maybe correct with a late this year/early next year iMac Pro. With the RDNA2 being likely to follow along with it.

But anyone who gets the 'new' iMac and it's 'substantial' overall raft of performance and design improvements can still buy, presumably, an RDNA2 via an eGPU caddy *this* September. And include that thermal brute performer without trying the patience of the AiO enclosure.

It will be a further waiting game to see how the iMac Pro can differentiate itself from the 'new' iMac range.

Sure, 14-18 cores are more than the likely top end BTO 10 core(?) of the new Intel cpu destined(?) for the iMac. And the RDNA2 is certainly a 'league' ahead of the RDNA1 variants likely included in the 'new' iMac. Possibly a 27 inch micro LED as well? ERm. For some that will be sufficient to pay the higher entry price. Perhaps Apple will boost the iMac Pro's SSD size and included ram further...?

I'm struggling to see how the iMac Pro and new iMac value equation doesn't narrow. Most of the iMac Pro's performance exclusivity is coming to new iMac. And that will come even further below the £3560 price for the 2019 iMac I'd specced out but balked at due to the old design, the old thermals and the 'realming' BTO upsell.

And for me, that's the way it should be. The current iMac isn't nearly ambitious enough with it's platter drives masquerading as Fusion drives (for FUSION SAKES, GUYS...IT'S BEEN 8 FUSION'ING YEARS!!! GUYS!! GUYS!!!! FUSION ME!!! Say it in a Gordon Ramsay voice. And once more with feeling...) piddly amounts of SSD buffers and paltry amounts of standard ram and 'mere' 6 core processors which are already standard in sub £1k towers. As is a 256 gig SSD...and 16 gigs of ram...and a 2060 NV GPU.)

The 'new' iMac. For some it will be instant buy. For others. Wait and see.

I, alas, can wait no longer. I'll pick up some RDNA2 variant via an eGPU caddy later.

Azrael.

 

[The_Lord_of_Apple]

I think the Videocardz link clearly outlines the Ampere/Nv and Radeon RDNA1 and 2 line.

I am just piecing together what I come across from a variety of "questionable" sources including this screenshot about GPU strings. All open to interpretation!

I wouldn't be surprised if the new iMac draws parallels from how the MacBook Pro 16" is configured.

My other crazy idea was if the new iMac chassis was large enough to incorporate a 5700xt MPX module.

 

[Azrael9]

I am just piecing together what I come across from a variety of "questionable" sources including this screenshot about GPU strings. All open to interpretation!

I wouldn't be surprised if the new iMac draws parallels from how the MacBook Pro 16" is configured.

My other crazy idea was if the new iMac chassis was large enough to incorporate a 5700xt MPX module.

...and according to this link...

AMD NAVI 23 graphics processor gets GFX1032 ID - VideoCardz.com

AMD Navi 23 is confirmed Decoding AMD graphics chips is not an easy task. The more products AMD releases, the more likely they are to overlap with different architectures. Not all products are always up to date, so despite being the latest they actually feature last-gen architecture (such as...

videocardz.com

Navi 21 is RDNA2! :O

Well done on the sleuthing, Lord of the Apple!

Could...it...be?

...that would be...two RDNA2 models (XTA and XLA) for the new iMac...

...and a further two (designed 'Pro') for an iMac Pro?

This would effectively make the new 27 inch iMac and the iMac Pro the eGamer Macs (upto £5k, it said...)
we've heard about back in Dec' last year.

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

I am just piecing together what I come across from a variety of "questionable" sources including this screenshot about GPU strings. All open to interpretation!

I wouldn't be surprised if the new iMac draws parallels from how the MacBook Pro 16" is configured.

My other crazy idea was if the new iMac chassis was large enough to incorporate a 5700xt MPX module.

I feel like if you are looking at the highest of the high end you need to consider MacPro first.
We had a pretty long list of GPUs for Mac already a while back by two leakers. I doubt we will see four "PS5 level" cards in Apple devices on monday, half a year before PS5 drops. Thats just not Apple.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1264160851365376001

https://twitter.com/x/status/1264156678842396672

https://twitter.com/x/status/1264165040216698887

 

[CWallace]

RDNA2 is almost certainly not happening for the standard iMacs, or whatever is announced on Monday. It's a shame, because Apple is always a day late and a dollar short to the GPU game.

Yes, let us complain about Apple not using an AMD GPU in June that AMD themselves have said won't be released until many months later...

Navi 21 is RDNA2! :O

I've only been saying that for weeks in this thread.

The issue is that Navi 21 is like a 500+ mm die and will draw like 500 watts of power so good luck getting that into anything other than a 2019 Mac Pro and keeping it cool.

My hope is AMD can have Navi 22 ready for the iMac Pro by the end of the year so Apple can ship a refreshed/updated model. Then we can have Navi 23 in the 2021 iMac refresh.

 

[Azrael9]

I've only been saying that for weeks in this thread.

The issue is that Navi 21 is like a 500+ mm die and will draw like 500 watts of power so good luck getting that into anything other than a 2019 Mac Pro and keeping it cool.

My hope is AMD can have Navi 22 ready for the iMac Pro by the end of the year so Apple can ship a refreshed/updated model. Then we can have Navi 23 in the 2021 iMac refresh.

Good Evening Gentlemen,

Master Wallace and I note the DrRadon is in town.

You have, indeed, CWallace. Credit where it's due.

The two tiers of RDNA2 mentioned could reference the iMac Pro and Mac Pro, ofc.

With...

iMac 21.5" or 23" - Pro 5300, Pro 5500XT
iMac 27" - Pro 5700, Pro 5700XT

Being the likely way of things. From where the iMac has come historically, I take a Pro 5700XT in my next iMac. This gives it decent interior graphics.

...and teh mouth watering prospect of adding an RDNA2 variant later.

That said. We know the RDNA2 'Big Boy' 500+ die size is likely 1st out the gates in September... (Flagships 1st...) Nvidia is racing to meet them. I think this will pile on the pressure to get the rest of the RDNA2 stack out as soon as possible. AMD leadership have stated it's a full stack of RDNA2. And that's alot of money left on the table and Radeon normally targets the £££ of the mainstream PC tower market.

So whilst the 6900XT will be 1st? That isn't the bell curve of the £££ market? But I, for one, will welcome AMD Radeon back to the high end gpu market.

Azrael.
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The issue is that Navi 21 is like a 500+ mm die and will draw like 500 watts of power so good luck getting that into anything other than a 2019 Mac Pro and keeping it cool.

...in a Mac Pro. Most certainly. (Shame we don't have Mac Towers of the mainstream variety. ...)

500 watts of power. Sounds like the Ampere and RDNA2 flagships will draw some considerable power.

...but I'm wondering how the 50% efficiency of RDNA2 will hold up.

But we can add RDNA2 via an eGPU caddy...? It will finally allow iMac owners to finally enjoy high end gpu power.

And on any 23 or 27 inch iMac, that's going to be darn sexy.

There's your gaming Mac.

Now...we just need some games to play on it.

Apple Arcade Crissy Crossy, anyone?

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

iMac right now has eight GPU options including the intel ires on the most low end model and one possible upsell on both of the highest price models (vega 20 and vega 48 i believe).
So there would be room for more, four would only fit if we in fact only upgrade the 27 inch and the 21,5 to 23 inch transition happens later.

 

[asb1]

Here's my thought for the day:

In the iPhone and iPad lines, the lower tier (iPad, iPhone11) has only one size. The Pros (iPad Pro, iPhone 11 Pro) have two sizing options.

What if the iMac line goes that direction too? Maybe the 24" size we've been hearing about will become the only "iMac", and a larger size/sizes become iMac Pro? This would also line up with the one new model number. One new "iMac" at WWDC, and iMac Pros (maybe 27", 32" options) in the fall perhaps.

I hope this does NOT happen, myself- I need at least 27" and don't have $4,999 to spend!

 

[CWallace]

iMac 21.5" or 23" - Pro 5300, Pro 5500XT
iMac 27" - Pro 5700, Pro 5700XT

Seems logical to me, hopefully they will be the Navi 10+ versions.

That said. We know the RDNA2 'Big Boy' 500+ die size is likely 1st out the gates in September... (Flagships 1st...) Nvidia is racing to meet them. I think this will pile on the pressure to get the rest of the RDNA2 stack out as soon as possible. AMD leadership have stated it's a full stack of RDNA2. And that's alot of money left on the table and Radeon normally targets the £££ of the mainstream PC tower market.

NVidia's moves could and would matter to AMD, but not Apple. That being said, I agree with you in that I hope that AMD can get Navi 22 (the middle "Big Navi") out in time for Apple to put it into the iMac Pro. We know the "iMac Pro Refresh" CPUs are ready (and have been since Late 2019) so one assumes / hopes that Apple is waiting for a (much) better GPU to put in the machine which is why we've had to wait effectively an extra year for said "iMac Pro Refresh".

If Apple is dedicated to going MiniLED in the "iMac Pro Refresh", that could give AMD some room since rumors have said Apple is having issues sourcing MiniLED-backlit panels, though that appears to be more an iPad issue than a Mac issue (though we have yet to see the rumored 16" MBP with MiniLed even though the CPUs should be ready so guessing they are waiting to do Comet Lake / Navi12+ / MiniLED all in one fell-swoop)

But we can add RDNA2 via an eGPU caddy...? It will finally allow iMac owners to finally enjoy high end gpu power.

I imagine so since it would have the space to allow the multiple large cooling fans such a card would need and since Apple will be certifying the GPU for the Mac Pro, then macOS support should be there for an eGPU version, as well.

 

[pepperonibois]

So any (!) iMac improvement will blow past the Tier 1. Which equates to a massive price cut for 'iMac Pro' like performance.

Therefore? It's 60% off. 'Effectively.' ! ! !

He did it again, the absolute madman 🤣

 

[The_Lord_of_Apple]

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This would effectively make the new 27 inch iMac and the iMac Pro the eGamer Macs (upto £5k, it said...)
we've heard about back in Dec' last year.

yes!! I forgot to add the gaming part in my post but you are right. Some of the GPU related posts went straight over my head, too many numbers and it all looks the same.

I'm glad it has opened up a new discussion.

If the screen has an OLED type display as per the tweets from a couple of weeks ago, I will be over the moon.

But anyone who gets the 'new' iMac and it's 'substantial' overall raft of performance and design improvements can still buy, presumably, an RDNA2 via an eGPU caddy *this* September. And include that thermal brute performer without trying the patience of the AiO enclosure.

I would be happy with an eGPU option if my work warrants it. I am suspecting the 5700XT will be ample for my work. I would prefer if Apple provides more than 4 Thunderbolt3/USB C ports. I have way too many Thunderbolt drives to contend with if only given two ports.


Tuesday 3am can't come quick enough, the curse of being in the southern hemisphere.

 

[krell100]

Yeah the WWDC keynote timing is unfortunate for those downunder.

 

[gusping]

The 5500XT for the 23 inch iMac?

The 5600XT and 5700XT for the 27 iMac?

6500XT. I'd like that as a top end BTO RDNA2 option for iMac. Maybe it will be added later. There is also the 6600M RDNA2. (Mac.) For a Macbook Pro? Later this year?

Azrael.

If iMacs do contain RDNA1, i want ‘reasonable’ upgrade prices. £500 tops for a full fat 5700 XT. They are OLD now.

PS. Why were you up until 1:30am? Couldn't sleep due to all those iMac thoughts?
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...and don't have $4,999 to spend!

With Apple’s pricing, it looks like you will have to settle for a MBA...
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Tuesday 3am can't come quick enough, the curse of being in the southern hemisphere.

Ooft, that is grim. 6pm here in the UK. Lovely jubbly.

 

[gusping]

New topic for today, boys - CPUs.

The proper 10th gen CPUs (10600k/700k/900k) are all 125w parts right? Up from the previous 95w parts. An iPad Pro style design has me very worried for cooling, unless they make it at least 2 inches thick, which they won't due to aesthetics...

But... surely they won't dip down to all 65w parts?

 

[DrRadon]

Yeah the WWDC keynote timing is unfortunate for those downunder.

Its okay to just watch the replay in the morning, contend won't change.
Bonus, you get to skip the first 15 Minutes were they just celebrate themselfs, how amazing they are and that they make the world a better place and billions.

 

[Mikael H]

New topic for today, boys - CPUs.

The proper 10th gen CPUs (10600k/700k/900k) are all 125w parts right? Up from the previous 95w parts. An iPad Pro style design has me very worried for cooling, unless they make it at least 2 inches thick, which they won't due to aesthetics...

But... surely they won't dip down to all 65w parts?

For all the complaints against Apple they aren’t usually outright stupid when viewed from the perspective of an intended strategy.
And for all rumors, experience tells me they often lack detail compared to what fans make of them.

I think it’s entirely plausible that the design language of a new iMac may draw from the iPad Pro when seen from the front while retaining the necessary bulge required for component depth and cooling in the back. I think I would like to see it combined with Mac Pro style vents, but that may be incompatible with the Pro/Consumer design language differences.

 

[wba1990]

Been wanting an iMac for a few months but been holding off to see what WWDC would bring

Do we know what day any iMac stuff will be discussed/shown or is it just a guess of having to wait and watch each day?

 

[jjDevt]

Been wanting an iMac for a few months but been holding off to see what WWDC would bring

Do we know what day any iMac stuff will be discussed/shown or is it just a guess of having to wait and watch each day?

Keynote, first day, or nothing at all.