Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Azrael9]

I don't disagree that apple shouldn't be using a fusion drive and that it totally sucks as a drive. I'm just explaining why it kinda works to my advantage. I can upgrade the current imac to make it much more of a 'today's tech' for infinitely less $ than apple would charge me. (and they don't even offer a 4tb ssd option in the iMac anyway - which is the size sata ssd I have in mine).

Trust me, in this next generation imac, when it's ssd only, and they DO offer a 4tb ssd, that'll be a $2000 bto option.

Apple will ream the user now for anything that's beyond mediocre. Or even if it is mediocre.

There's 3rd party for external storage.

...be nice if Apple did accessible internal storage...but the iMac isn't really that machine. It's not designed for it. But of course, some may want to do the 'fandango' to 'upgrade' it.

They use to. With the Mac Pro when it used to cost under £2k. Pull drive out. Put new drive in.

But they've locked stuff down...gradually upsold the decent stuff at ever higher prices to keep shareholders happy with teh higher profits. The difference between iMac tiers is nominal. But those prices aren't.

Azrael.
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I don't disagree

Good. I like you already Nicole.

You'll fit in well around here...

Azrael.
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Another day, another disappointment.

View attachment 936687

Half a jedi.

Azrael.
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We are all in a abusive relationship based on the memories of MacOS not being Catalina.
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It started to feel that way a while back...

Azrael.

 

[anthony13]

So next week is their earnings call? And I can’t recall them ever updating hardware before during that, so we really are now looking at Fall for this update? I really dont know what to buy. Is a 2019 iMac better than a 2017 iMac Pro? There’s really not a lot of Great options here. Freaking Apple.

 

[DrRadon]

I can upgrade the current imac to make it much more of a 'today's tech' for infinitely less $ than apple would charge me.

Thats why it's going away.
Not saying that i like it, but they have been doing this with MacBook Pro for how many years? They have a proof of concept as a 1,5 trillion dollar company. Because when they chose to make more money of of their customers not enough of them away.

The issue is not even fusion drive or not. The SSD in current iMacs is also upgradable. Samsung Eva will set you up with a ton more speed than any SATA SSD, the connector is there. The issue will be the T2 Chip wich will come, you can already see it in MacPro. SSD stays easy to upgrade, but the upgrade will only work with Apple Hardware. So you don't even need to argue the prices, they are already there, just look at the MacPro and you see exactly what iMac will be IF they redesign it (most certainly once ARM hits). All only for your security of cause.
With Thunderbold you at least can have external SSDs that are well up to speed, check out Samsung T5 and T7 SSDs, they are not cheap and it sucks that you have them dangling outside of your computer IF you only want them to be on that computer, but they are faster than a SATA connected SSD so they are a valid option.

 

[jetjaguar]

And nothing says 'I don't care' more than a 12 year old design.

Or taking 6 years to make a 'new' tower.

Azrael.
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If you have the budget and that's what you want. There's no denying the engineering in it is beautiful.

I'd rather there was a headless option between the mini and the 'Mac Pro'. *(Remembers when Mac Towers cost £1350-...)

But I won't hold my breath waiting for one nor buying the £6000 for specs that could be got on a PC for around £1250-1500 quite easily. £6k is really pushing the 'Because MacOS is worth it' argument.

Azrael.

I agree that a pc can be built for a fraction. But the case and engineering is gorgeous. Plus Mac OS and it is the only option to run your own monitors etc.

iMac is nice but running multiple monitors with it drives my OCD insane.
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So next week is their earnings call? And I can’t recall them ever updating hardware before during that, so we really are now looking at Fall for this update? I really dont know what to buy. Is a 2019 iMac better than a 2017 iMac Pro? There’s really not a lot of Great options here. Freaking Apple.

I’d say no. Apparently the 2019 i9s are loud and run hot. The iMac Pro cooling is much better.

 

[DrRadon]

So next week is their earnings call? And I can’t recall them ever updating hardware before during that, so we really are now looking at Fall for this update? I really dont know what to buy.

They had big news this week, there is little chance of anything happening next week. Look at the first week of august with a maybe. But there are no signs besides a reliable leaker giving us a vague "very very soon" that got clarified as "days or weeks".

 

[Azrael9]

Maybe, but it's more for the principle of not buying old tech in an overpriced 2019 machine (which is, we know, far older than 2019, with a Q4'18 CPU, Q2'17 GPU and 2012 display/design), voiding your warranty straight out of the box if you do it yourself, while still knowing you get inferior performance (even if you cannot see it over naked eyes). It's a big no-go for me.

Yeah...old tech' in an over priced 2019 machine...which is old of date by another year and half...

...with a design that's 12 years old...

...with gpu tech' that's 3 years old...

...with for fusion (nearly mistyped..) sake tech' that's 8 year's old.

Nom, nom, nom...

Lurvlee...£1750...(gotta go up a tier or two...to get me...dat...old...Vega 48 for £450...)

As the Scottish football fans may chant...

'You're takin' the pish...you're taking the PISH...oh...APPLE...you're TAKING THE pIsh...) *(Helps if you've had a few pints , some PC owning buddies...and a somewhat leery...swagger...)

Azrael.
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I’d say no. Apparently the 2019 i9s are loud and run hot. The iMac Pro cooling is much better.

Initial reports had the 2019 running cool.

But many user testimonials say it runs hot.

Having seen 'Luke's' YouTube testimonial of the iMac Pro's cooling, I'd say you're on the mark there.

They really should be bringing that standard of cooling to the consumer iMac along with teH sExY space grEy...

Azrael.

 

[Nicole1980]

HDD and SSD. It's night and day.

Umm, just to clarify, we're talking about a SATA SSD vs an NVME SSD. No one is (or should be) defending an HDD or even a Fusion drive in this day and age.

 

[Azrael9]

But the case and engineering is gorgeous.

It's the most beautiful thing they've done. Truly an engineering marvel.

But £6k for crap specs to run MacOS.

They can dream on.

Azrael.
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Umm, just to clarify, we're talking about a SATA SSD vs an NVME SSD. No one is (or should be) defending an HDD or even a Fusion drive in this day and age.

I like you even more now.

We don't like For Fusion Sake Drives around here... *(suspicious looks...)*

REMEMBER THE JOBS!

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

Umm, just to clarify, we're talking about a SATA SSD vs an NVME SSD. No one is (or should be) defending an HDD or even a Fusion drive in this day and age.

Month ago i posted a video here of some writer, i think financial times, who bought a 2019 iMac with HDD (i think there still was one that even came without a fusion drive) and it was legit slower than his 2013 iMac. MacOS is to demanding for HDDs, thats why they need to stop selling it in iMac like they did with absolutely everything else they offer. There has not been a HDD in MacBooks since...???

 

[Nicole1980]

I guess there had to be one person on the planet that finds removing the gaffer tape and re-cellotaping the screen 'easier' than the magnet version... I knew one day you'd come...)

Why thank you. I'm not the only one by far ... but I'm flattered none the less

 

[Azrael9]

They had big news this week,

Yeah...so big...they had to put iEarth on the front page of Apple.com.

I thought they'd released another planet for us...or a gignormous iMac with a screen as big as planet Earth...

Azrael.

 

[Nicole1980]

Yep. I'm this guy.

That's what my 2011 compute workstation still works fine and my Late-2013 MBP is still my daily driver. Bought it when the technology was brand new and they still last me 9/7 years after.

Ok, then I'm confused. Given this, it's particularly vexing that you said 'we just value new technologies'. I would assume 'we' includes you, and if you are happy with your 2011 and 2013 computers then how on earth could you be included the in the 'I value new technologies' camp?

 

[DrRadon]

Yeah...so big...they had to put iEarth on the front page of Apple.com.

I thought they'd released another planet for us...or a gignormous iMac with a screen as big as planet Earth...

Azrael.

They had a big announcement and it got a lot of press. We had smaller stuff like back2school (grande i had years were i was waiting for that to start) in the two week news cycle in the past couple of month. But i actually believe by now the 2030 climate goal is the biggest announcement since ARM at WWDC.
And what was theist big thing before that?
Better GPU Ram in MacBook 16? It's awesome, but rather late, rather nich and rather expensive.
The new MacBook 13? I suppose people were waiting for that.
Probably iPhone SE is the biggest thing Apple had this year asides ARM.

Come to think of it. Everything Apple released this year product wise was low end. SE, MacMini, 13 Inch MacBook and MB Air. There really has been no hog.

 

[iPadified]

Native running geekbench on developer kit, A12Z 4 cores (out of eight)

New benchmarks and details about iPhone and iPad apps emerge from Apple Silicon Macs - 9to5Mac

At WWDC last month, Apple officially detailed its plans to transition the Mac lineup to custom Apple Silicon processors. As...

9to5mac.com

single score 1098
multiscore 4555
metal 12610

CPU score like a 7700K on a two year old iPad chip! So use all eight cores and you will probably reach 6000-7000 corresponding to an MBP16 top model. This Benchmark needs to be verified from another source before we can believe fully. However, under Rosetta the score was 800/2600 so perhaps not completely unreasonable.

With a node shrink and higher clock, it would reach 9900k territory. The rumored 8P+4E chip would do nicely.

They need to do something about the GPU...but scaling to 24-32 cores should be doable. Perhaps the tile cache memory helps as well.

It seems reasonable that the 24 inch will have top iMac 27 performance and be passively cooled and they can deliver this chip easily this year as the A12Z is two years old.

Yes please (and who cares if the Intel Macs are humiliated)!

 

[DrRadon]

BTW. i had my iMac finder freeze the third time today, catalina really is the worst OS they ever gave us. The incapability to fix this on their limited range of devices is such a joke. Luckily on my MacBook it was fixed month ago....

 

[ondert]

It seems reasonable that the 24 inch will have top iMac 27 performance and be passively cooled and they can deliver this chip easily this year as the A12Z is two years old.

Yes please (and who cares if the Intel Macs are humiliated)!

If something like this happens then I'd probably buy an AS Mac Mini instead of an iMac assuming the mini will perform the same.

 

[Freida]

You completely missed the point. Its not that we are offended that you want to upgrade ssd. Thats all fine and well.
We are offended that Apple is offering Fusion drive in the first place. A user shouldn't upgrade the machine at home to make it current. It should already come from Apple.

I can upgrade ssd or anything myself. I used to build computers as a kid. However, that doesn't mean that I SHOULD nor that Apple will dumb down the product just so that you can 'fix' it at home.

Its plain and simple. You can do whatever you want but you should see why we are offended and in theory you should be on our side. If you are not then no surprise that Apple is still doing this crap if you support them with your wallet.

Thats all

LOL, "It shouldn't be happening!".

It really kind of astounds me that there's people that seem offended that I prefer to take a little effort and do the ssd upgrade. That I DARE to take a little effort to add incredible value to the machine and removes the one thing that sucks about it - the fusion drive.

All the people at iFixit and the many who love that site would be rolling their eyes at all of you.

 

[jetjaguar]

When you guys are talking about performance .. you mean with Apple apps .. right?

 

[DrRadon]

When you guys are talking about performance .. you mean with Apple apps .. right?

When you post you mean QQ right? Because QQ is all i have been seeing you post.

 

[ondert]

Yeah...so big...they had to put iEarth on the front page of Apple.com.

I thought they'd released another planet for us...or a gignormous iMac with a screen as big as planet Earth...

Azrael.

lol... that iEarth page was a total preparation for an iPhone box with no power brick and EarPods. They'll tell some tales and use pollution as a reason.

 

[CWallace]

Is a 2019 iMac better than a 2017 iMac Pro? There’s really not a lot of Great options here.

If I had to buy a new iMac right this moment, I would buy the iMac Pro because it has much better cooling, better graphics and greater expandability. The only thing it cannot do a 2019 iMac can is run a Pro Display XDR at 6K, but I don't plan to buy an XDR so...

 

[Freida]

I would assume we mean overall as that kinda is what Apple needs to deliver

When you guys are talking about performance .. you mean with Apple apps .. right?

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I've been on that thought also. Mac Mini + XDR would be great. What would be even better is if Apple relased cheaper version of XDR that is not that expensive and doesn't have all the stuff. Most of us don't need it anyway and all we need is good quality Apple display.

If something like this happens then I'd probably buy an AS Mac Mini instead of an iMac assuming the mini will perform the same.

 

[jetjaguar]

I would assume we mean overall as that kinda is what Apple needs to deliver


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I've been on that thought also. Mac Mini + XDR would be great. What would be even better is if Apple relased cheaper version of XDR that is not that expensive and doesn't have all the stuff. Most of us don't need it anyway and all we need is good quality Apple display.

Mini with XDR would be nice. Current mini doesnt drive the XDR i believe but hopefully the new one will be able to. It would be amazing if Apple released a cheaper 32" XDR monitor.. I hope they do.

 

[ksodell]

iFixit aren't running Apple.

The iMac 24 inch was doable. Magnets and all.

But the gaffer tape iMac with a guitar plectrum to hack off the screen? No thanks.

I don't think anybody is offended that you're trying to updgrade your machine. ('Good for you.') It's using yesteryear tech' and charging 'this year's' prices. It's easy enough to buy external drives, plug them into the ports, that run faster than Apple's antiquated bodge job. Better still, time for Apple to put in PCIE4 and a fast internal SSD.

Be much better if Apple made Desktop Macs user upgradeable like iMacs and Mini ghosts of the past or better, the Blue and White G3 tower which I did well fancy. It's just not the way the industry is going. It's SoC. Sealed. Lockdown. Throwaway. Buy a new one. iGreen.

I'd prefer a Mac Pro. But not at £6k with crap specs.

We're stuck with the iMac (formerly occupied by the Mac tower...in times past...) and all that goes with it. Because? Apple sat on the design under Cook and failed to galvanise the Desktop Mac Division to design stuff that gave better performance for the money.

For Fusions Sake.

Azrael.

This gets my vote for best post on this forum! (... at least for today. ) So much truth here. Yes, we applaud your willingness to tear into your iMac and replace the 'boat anchor' Fusion drive with an SSD. Heck, many of us have done that!

But why buy an iMac at 2020 prices, yet receive 2019 or older internals? (Fusion = 2009 technology? Older?) Afterward, pay MORE hard earned money to install 2020 parts in it to replace said old tech? I'd just buy a used iMac for less money, and throw an SSD into it. No voided warranty. No paying excessive prices for old tech. Etc.

 

[Azrael9]

Month ago i posted a video here of some writer, i think financial times, who bought a 2019 iMac with HDD (i think there still was one that even came without a fusion drive) and it was legit slower than his 2013 iMac. MacOS is to demanding for HDDs, thats why they need to stop selling it in iMac like they did with absolutely everything else they offer. There has not been a HDD in MacBooks since...???

It won't be the 1st time Apple did a 'side grade' in iMac 'performance.'

Still...that had to hurt...

Azrael.
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This gets my vote for best post on this forum! (... at least for today. ) So much truth here. Yes, we applaud your willingness to tear into your iMac and replace the 'boat anchor' Fusion drive with an SSD. Heck, many of us have done that!

But why buy an iMac at 2020 prices, yet receive 2019 or older internals? (Fusion = 2009 technology? Older?) Afterward, pay MORE hard earned money to install 2020 parts in it to replace said old tech? I'd just buy a used iMac for less money, and throw an SSD into it. No voided warranty. No paying excessive prices for old tech. Etc.

*Bats eyelids.*

Why...thankyou, ksodell.

As you may have noticed. I don't 'necessarily' buy into the Apple marketing of 'Mac community' 'group think' or find a willingness to throw myself on their altar of the Mac Church 'to defend' Apple.

(iWheels, the low end Mac Pro at £6k..., Mac Desktops with £1500-£3000 price barren of even last year's mid range GPU... Apple didst throw their grains of Mac desktop corn on rocky barren land...and...expensive weeds grew hither...to...)

T'was after all...our founding father, High Priest of 'putting the boot in'...Steve Jobs who taught 'his flock' that we should look at the craftsmanship of the 'back of cupboards...'

...and getting flagship performance for a fair price.

He did even sayeth..., 'That money wasn't everything.' *inane, cult like stare from Azrael's eyes.

Miss hearing Steve Job's words. Tim Apple thought that 'Money WAS everything...' and proceeded to skimp on specs, use later year's specs and bump up prices of products, nickle and diming BTO options with 'great' prices...' After all, why bump up the price a little bit when you can increase it by 50% or even double it in the case of the Mac Mini...or even triple it in the case of the Mac Pro and pad it out with classic components. Or ship a flagship phone with out an adapter...true innovation. In profiteering. And padding shareholder's feathered nest at the expense of customers.

In fact, this year...Apple will go with a new marketing slogan. 'Paying excessive prices for old tech'.'

Why 2019? Why indeed. It is over half way through 2020...

'Our tech' is that great...we don't need to update the iMac ever again. You get a great low end gpu...a fusion (for) sake drive...and a terrific 6 core...you don't need more cores than that...because these ones are classic...in fact...the entire spec is classic...along with that great oil tanker bezel you know and have loved for 12 years. Don't forget that great ispace heater we've included 'free' of charge.'

Azrael.