Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Azrael9]

If I had to buy a new iMac right this moment, I would buy the iMac Pro because it has much better cooling, better graphics and greater expandability. The only thing it cannot do a 2019 iMac can is run a Pro Display XDR at 6K, but I don't plan to buy an XDR so...

There have been some who have got a good deal on the iMac Pro. £3000, or close to it would be ok.

...and maybe apply another type of discount to get it into the £2000's territory.

It's the ultimate iMac.

At around £2500.

Azrael.
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lol... that iEarth page was a total preparation for an iPhone box with no power brick and EarPods. They'll tell some tales and use pollution as a reason.

Really? *innocent look.

Better to not make an iPhone at all (all that mineral extraction from the iEarth...) and just give the customer the empty box for £600-£1000. iAir.

Good for the planet.
Great for shareholders.
Super for customers' carbon footprint.

Azrael.
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Ok, then I'm confused.

Don't worry. We'll help you wit dat.

Everybody is confused.

iMac cabin fever.

Azrael.
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If something like this happens then I'd probably buy an AS Mac Mini instead of an iMac assuming the mini will perform the same.

Yes. The mini AS could be dark horse...performance champ.

Outside bet I may even do this also.

Azrael.
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They had a big announcement and it got a lot of press. We had smaller stuff like back2school (grande i had years were i was waiting for that to start) in the two week news cycle in the past couple of month. But i actually believe by now the 2030 climate goal is the biggest announcement since ARM at WWDC.
And what was theist big thing before that?
Better GPU Ram in MacBook 16? It's awesome, but rather late, rather nich and rather expensive.
The new MacBook 13? I suppose people were waiting for that.
Probably iPhone SE is the biggest thing Apple had this year asides ARM.

Come to think of it. Everything Apple released this year product wise was low end. SE, MacMini, 13 Inch MacBook and MB Air. There really has been no hog.

iCrumbs.

Azrael.
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Yes please (and who cares if the Intel Macs are humiliated)!

Not I said he.

Azrael.

 

[DQ11]

Yeah. Sort of like a hybrid solution, taking over iMac Pro.

exactly...then they can re-introduce a new imac pro in 2023 that is something different if they want or just get rid of it and make the imac...the imac pro.
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The next iMac will be the last and phased out within a few years. I really do not see the point of a major redesign for a product line that is phased out. If you think Apple did not know that the AS for Macs worked until WWDC 2020, you are wrong. They have known for years and planned the iMac path of updates accordingly.

The rumoured iPad Pro design of iMac fits AS thermal envelope very well and would signal a new product line with ties to the iOS devices. A minor tweak of the iMac Pro case is sufficient for a new iMac such as smaller bezels (will do very little for thermal).

BTO iMac time is now reduced to 1-2 weeks unless you want the i5 and 2Tb options. iMac Pro BTO 5-7 days. There has obviously been a component restraint and an updated iMac might be affected as well.

my 27" imac still says Sep 28th-Oct5th

 

[Freida]

Just in time. Hahahhaahhahahahahahaahhahaha

Intel delays rollout of 7-nanometer chips by six months | AppleInsider

Intel has delayed the rollout of its 7-nanometer CPUs by six months and is instead shifting focus to 10nm-based products.

appleinsider.com

Seriously Intel, just give up. You can't innovate anymore

 

[Azrael9]

Intel confirms 10nm Alder Lake launches in the second half of 2021 - VideoCardz.com

Alder Lake is Intel’s first 10nm desktop CPU Intel has confirmed today in 2020’s second-quarter earnings press release that their 7nm product is delayed by approximately a year. In the same document, the company has also confirmed that Alder Lake, which is now set to launch in the second half of...

videocardz.com

Azrael.

 

[OldCorpse]

To some degree you gotta think about how Apple reaches their marketing decisions when picking specs. This is in the Apple DNA all the way back to the days of Jobs. How often have we heard this: users complain about something removed, or something being not present (bluray) and the response is very often "we found that very few of our customers want this feature" or "it's a bag of pain and a technology that is soon going away" or whatnot.

This is how to think about the SATA SSD - if nobody notices a speed (or any other) difference, and it's rare that anyone wants something else, you will not see Apple pursue it.

That's how one can think about the size of the iMac screen - is there really a BIG ENOUGH demand for something bigger than 27"? You might want it - I certainly would love it! - but if the reality is that we represent 0.5% or 2% of customers, Apple may not have the incentive or economic return to go to larger panels which are always much more expensive and technologically challanging. So I'd love a bigger screen, but whether I'll get it is all down to $ and customer demand. If it didn't cost much to make it larger, then Apple might do it for differentiation purposes even if the customer demand is only 2%, but if it's expensive and there is little demand, forget it.

I do think it would be nice to have something bigger than 27" - if indeed they go to 24" from 21" then it would make sense to make the 27" bigger, otherwise you're only looking at a 3" difference between 24 and 27 vs the old 6" 21 vs 27.

But I fear that Apple might just look at this as a cost saving opportunity. They could shave the bezels and chin, and fit a larger screen into not much larger chassis than the 27". But they may go the other way too - shrink the bezels and chin and shrink the whole chassis while still maintaning the 27", and save a ton of $ on materials and be "greener" overall - I fear greatly that this is the path Apple will go down. Too bad Timmy doesn't have something else that Jobs had and that was Apple goes "premium" and even if there isn't demand from the consumer now, there will be once they see how good the product is. It's like that story about I think it was Ford, the car maker, he said that he makes the car and expects th customer to come, instead of asking what the customer wants - as he put it, if I asked my customers what they wanted, they'd tell me "a faster buggy horse". This is what Timmy is missing. Unfortunately, Timmy strikes me as exactly the kind of supply chain costs guy who would jump on the opportunity to save money on materials than dictate a premium product for customers to catch up - instead it's cheaper mediocre products at premium prices.

That said, I hope I'm wrong. Wouldn't it be great if we got a 30"-32" AS iMac?! Yeah, I can dream, but...

 

[CWallace]

I like 27" at 5120x2880 because it maps directly to the 27" 2560x1440 of my second display.

So 27" 5K would remain my preference, but provided it's Retina, I'll roll with something larger if I have to.

 

[ksodell]

It won't be the 1st time Apple did a 'side grade' in iMac 'performance.'

Still...that had to hurt...

Azrael.
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*Bats eyelids.*

Why...thankyou, ksodell.

As you may have noticed. I don't 'necessarily' buy into the Apple marketing of 'Mac community' 'group think' or find a willingness to throw myself on their altar of the Mac Church 'to defend' Apple.

(iWheels, the low end Mac Pro at £6k..., Mac Desktops with £1500-£3000 price barren of even last year's mid range GPU... Apple didst throw their grains of Mac desktop corn on rocky barren land...and...expensive weeds grew hither...to...)

T'was after all...our founding father, High Priest of 'putting the boot in'...Steve Jobs who taught 'his flock' that we should look at the craftsmanship of the 'back of cupboards...'

...and getting flagship performance for a fair price.

He did even sayeth..., 'That money wasn't everything.' *inane, cult like stare from Azrael's eyes.

Miss hearing Steve Job's words. Tim Apple thought that 'Money WAS everything...' and proceeded to skimp on specs, use later year's specs and bump up prices of products, nickle and diming BTO options with 'great' prices...' After all, why bump up the price a little bit when you can increase it by 50% or even double it in the case of the Mac Mini...or even triple it in the case of the Mac Pro and pad it out with classic components. Or ship a flagship phone with out an adapter...true innovation. In profiteering. And padding shareholder's feathered nest at the expense of customers.

In fact, this year...Apple will go with a new marketing slogan. 'Paying excessive prices for old tech'.'

Why 2019? Why indeed. It is over half way through 2020...

'Our tech' is that great...we don't need to update the iMac ever again. You get a great low end gpu...a fusion (for) sake drive...and a terrific 6 core...you don't need more cores than that...because these ones are classic...in fact...the entire spec is classic...along with that great oil tanker bezel you know and have loved for 12 years. Don't forget that great ispace heater we've included 'free' of charge.'

Azrael.

Well said, on all counts.

"He did even sayeth..., 'That money wasn't everything.' *inane, cult like stare from Azrael's eyes... Miss hearing Steve Job's words."

Yeah, it's amazing that a Yank would actually say those words. We Colonists tend to like our greenbacks. I love it that Maharaja Jobs cared more about happy customers AND great, utilitarian design AND well-built things that 'keep them coming back for more' than he did the almighty dollar. *sigh* Gone are the days...

But Bottom Line Tim has a chance to redeem himself and AppleCo by killing it with a great AS-based iMac with ALL of the bells and whistles. I'm willing to give him another chance (as I pull my wallet out, again).

 

[ksodell]

To some degree you gotta think about how Apple reaches their marketing decisions when picking specs. This is in the Apple DNA all the way back to the days of Jobs. How often have we heard this: users complain about something removed, or something being not present (bluray) and the response is very often "we found that very few of our customers want this feature" or "it's a bag of pain and a technology that is soon going away" or whatnot.

This is how to think about the SATA SSD - if nobody notices a speed (or any other) difference, and it's rare that anyone wants something else, you will not see Apple pursue it.

Yes, but..... keeping antiquated parts and selling them at new-tech prices is NOT the same as getting rid of something that is seldom used. We could have kept spoked wheels on cars (which, by the way, slow down the system of driving) because "nobody would notice." But we moved to what we have now because people wanted to drive faster than what spokes would allow. Could you imagine if all of the car companies would ignore customers and just give them what the corporation wanted (cheap, spoked wheels but charged them exorbitantly)? The first company that would say, "Wait! Maybe we should ask our customers what they want, and GIVE IT TO THEM" would be flush with new, happy customers... and money.

That's how one can think about the size of the iMac screen - is there really a BIG ENOUGH demand for something bigger than 27"? You might want it - I certainly would love it! - but if the reality is that we represent 0.5% or 2% of customers, Apple may not have the incentive or economic return to go to larger panels which are always much more expensive and technologically challanging. So I'd love a bigger screen, but whether I'll get it is all down to $ and customer demand. If it didn't cost much to make it larger, then Apple might do it for differentiation purposes even if the customer demand is only 2%, but if it's expensive and there is little demand, forget it.

Yes, there is a big enough demand for it. "If you build it, they will (buy)." I vividly remember working on a 9" Mac screen, in black and white. I also remember 17", 19", and 21" monitors. And I remember that HUGE 27" iMac screen. And now it's time to make it larger. People will buy, just like they did the 65", 75", etc. TV's that adorn our homes.

But I fear that Apple might just look at this as a cost saving opportunity. They could shave the bezels and chin, and fit a larger screen into not much larger chassis than the 27". But they may go the other way too - shrink the bezels and chin and shrink the whole chassis while still maintaning the 27", and save a ton of $ on materials and be "greener" overall

I don't care how large the shell is. I care about the viewable screen size that will contain all things macOS. If they fit 30" into the existing (although long in the tooth) 27" case, I'm fine with that! Higher resolution and larger viewable screen size is what sells. Micro$oft figured that out when they built the Surface Studio.

Too bad Timmy doesn't have something else that Jobs had and that was Apple goes "premium" and even if there isn't demand from the consumer now, there will be once they see how good the product is. It's like that story about I think it was Ford, the car maker, he said that he makes the car and expects th customer to come, instead of asking what the customer wants - as he put it, if I asked my customers what they wanted, they'd tell me "a faster buggy horse". This is what Timmy is missing. Unfortunately, Timmy strikes me as exactly the kind of supply chain costs guy who would jump on the opportunity to save money on materials than dictate a premium product for customers to catch up - instead it's cheaper mediocre products at premium prices.

Ahh!!!! Just when I thought you were siding with Tim €ook, that last paragraph proved me wrong! Yes, there's a difference between producing outdated somethings because "nobody will notice" or "they don't know what they want" , than producing something NEW and IMPROVED that people will WANT, but just don't know it yet. Example: iPad. Heck, I thought it was a stupidly named product that nobody would buy - we have computers, for Fusions Sake! Boy, was I wrong.

That's the difference between Steve and Tim - vision.
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Just in time. Hahahhaahhahahahahahaahhahaha

Intel delays rollout of 7-nanometer chips by six months | AppleInsider

Intel has delayed the rollout of its 7-nanometer CPUs by six months and is instead shifting focus to 10nm-based products.

appleinsider.com

Seriously Intel, just give up. You can't innovate anymore

Hahaha! Wow! Now THAT is funny! Put a fork in Intel, they're done.

Sun Tau said, "The skillful leader subdues the enemy’s troops without any fighting.” Intel apparently did the work for Apple.

 

[elicash]

Too bad Timmy doesn't have something else that Jobs had and that was Apple goes "premium" and even if there isn't demand from the consumer now, there will be once they see how good the product is. It's like that story about I think it was Ford, the car maker, he said that he makes the car and expects th customer to come, instead of asking what the customer wants - as he put it, if I asked my customers what they wanted, they'd tell me "a faster buggy horse". This is what Timmy is missing. Unfortunately, Timmy strikes me as exactly the kind of supply chain costs guy who would jump on the opportunity to save money on materials than dictate a premium product for customers to catch up - instead it's cheaper mediocre products at premium prices.

This is the modern Apple, Timmy is not our friend or an innovator except in a marketing sense.

You go into an apple store, and might get told to go away till they message you when they're ready. Then when you come back they'll ask you to go away again and say there was a problem with their appointment system. Then when you come back and tell them a brand new product isn't working, they won't swap it out, they'll insist that you sit down while they 'test it'. Like you couldn't possibly be right and have hours to burn to enjoy the privilege of owning an apple device you did pay a lot of money for (and should work out of the box).

I love Apple. But they are bloated, and making decisions that seem more pharma-bro than serial innovator.

I was looking at refurbished Macs this past week. I noticed after a few visits, the online store limited my access to what was available. So I'd see a truncated version of Macs on sale there, and have less choice and feel things were selling out quickly.

I could literally go to another browser, and get 3 times the choice on a refurbished 27" iMac.

Lame as hell.

The lack of serious care for innovation and making products as cutting edge as possible, is indicative of a mentality to squeeze every last cent out of everything, and focus instead on brand prestige and a kind of 'fear of missing out' type loyalty or status.

I think most would agree that Apple has long diverted resources away from being a computer engineering company who wanted to give consumers the best possible, in favour of them being a marketing company wanting to sell a brand. The popularity of the iPod, iPhone etc. haven't helped our cause either.

It sucks that I like them as much as I do. But I am now mindful of the price increases, and how they monetise every last tiny detail of spec to milk my wallet, and I spend accordingly.

Maybe if we all do this, things might change. But I think enough folks are on board with the brand, not the product, that it really doesn't matter for now at least. Unless another slick marketing guy comes along with a product that can compete.

The door is always open to that happening when you get lazy on the innovation front, and lose your point of difference though. Right now Apple is on the nose in this department.

 

[pldelisle]

Ok, then I'm confused. Given this, it's particularly vexing that you said 'we just value new technologies'. I would assume 'we' includes you, and if you are happy with your 2011 and 2013 computers then how on earth could you be included the in the 'I value new technologies' camp?

Sorry for delay. I was out.
It’s just that I’m a poor master student. I don’t have the money for changing more frequently. And I use my things until they break, loose support or goes dead. All my devices are still supported so I’m happy.
But when I buy, I buy bleeding edge. I don’t buy the previous model. I don’t buy a computer with a SATA SSD. I wouldn’t buy something that was already old tech when I bought my previous computer. I buy the one that just came out, with the latest tech in it. Because I know it will last long, I will be profitable over the long time I will use it. Proof is in my workstation. It was bleeding edge when I bought it, workstation grade hardware, and it served me well and still do.

 

[rbfinch2]

Just a thought but maybe some of you are right on the August release. The very first iMac was announced in 8/15 and two other launches. Legit just clinging on to hope lol

 

[DQ11]

My Theory:
* August / September = 27" imac update with new i9-10core chips, no fusion drive, slightly updated GPU, and possibly faster ram. = Old Style / look
* October / November = 24" imac with new AS chip and new look.

2021:
* New AS 27" imac in Fall 2021 = New look/style

2022:
* New 32" imac Pro with new updated AS 16-core chips, 4-8 TB SSD drives, better cooling. = New Look/style + New color option.

That is my guess.

 

[jetjaguar]

My Theory:
* August / September = 27" imac update with new i9-10core chips, no fusion drive, slightly updated GPU, and possibly faster ram. = Old Style / look
* October / November = 24" imac with new AS chip and new look.

2021:
* New AS 27" imac in Fall 2021 = New look/style

2022:
* New 32" imac Pro with new updated AS 16-core chips, 4-8 TB SSD drives, better cooling. = New Look/style + New color option.

That is my guess.

I’d say that is a pretty good guess.

 

[iPadified]

The lack of serious care for innovation and making products as cutting edge as possible, is indicative of a mentality to squeeze every last cent out of everything, and focus instead on brand prestige and a kind of 'fear of missing out' type loyalty or status.

Two thing to consider.

1. As computers are now common appliances. You should look upon it as oven or a refrigerator type of product and be happy for that because that drives the prices down. If you have followed computer development since the late 70:th, you will find that most significant innovation was done 70th to 90th. All modular formats (internal and external), AIO (Original macintosh), portable, handhelds etc where tested at the time. Today we see refinements.

2. Look at Apple innovative performance in the light of the competition. I am not impressed by the performance of the others but perhaps you are?

It is curious that many here want a Mac tower (cheap), a concept that was introduced 30 years ago. The tower is just a vertical version of a desktop from the 80:th in order to remove it from the desk. A tower computer with the latest NVIDIA card might be cutting edge in terms of performance but the idea is 30 years old and hardly innovative.

"mentality to squeeze every last cent out of everything" = basics of fundamentalistic capitalism, which is worshipped globally and hardly an Apple invention.
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I’d say that is a pretty good guess.

I agree. I am little bit concerned about delays in COVID 19 times.

 

[DrRadon]

One week from today we reach 500 days.

Granted, the last two iMac refreshes had 600+ and 650+ days so these big cycles have been pretty normals since October 2015. 600+ product cycle right now would suggest November. 650+ would even be early 2021.

 

[iPadified]

I think most would agree that Apple has long diverted resources away from being a computer engineering company who wanted to give consumers the best possible, in favour of them being a marketing company wanting to sell a brand. The popularity of the iPod, iPhone etc. haven't helped our cause either.

Have you missed that mobile computing is one of the few areas where significant advancements has been made during the last decade? Be happy, mobile computing gave us highly efficient AS Mac SoC (well soon anyway) which is the key of moving traditional Mac computers further than they are today. Apple got it right: performance/power ratio rules. This has ben know in supercomputer world for a very long time.

 

[DrRadon]

Big fan of not praising stuff till it actually works. Especially if it's sold to you at a rather high premium. Lots of apple hard and software failing in the past 5 years that went way beyond intel.

 

[iPadified]

Big fan of not praising stuff till it actually works. Especially if it's sold to you at a rather high premium. Lots of apple hard and software failing in the past 5 years that went way beyond intel.

Very reasonable attitude but different from mine. I have worked with computers for so long time and with different platforms so I also know that the grass is not greener on the other side. Some things are better, some are not for a given platform. Just like anything else in the world. I buy Apple because their products looks good and the basic user interactions of MacOS and iOS just feels right for me. I do not expect them to be perfect, have higher quality or more functions despite the price which actually is not that much higher for a similar product.

Let's say I am not a big fan of black or the previously beige plastic or the blocky Win10 that is worshipped in the corporate worlds or the LED light decorating a gaming rig.

 

[elicash]

Have you missed that mobile computing is one of the few areas where significant advancements has been made during the last decade? Be happy, mobile computing gave us highly efficient AS Mac SoC (well soon anyway) which is the key of moving traditional Mac computers further than they are today. Apple got it right: performance/power ratio rules. This has ben know in supercomputer world for a very long time.

Can you show me where I can look on the apple store to reap the benefits as a user of Apple Computer hardware? I'm also curious if your opinion can change my experience as a user of Apple hardware over the previous 5-8 years or so vs. the 20 odd before this?

You know, prior to a 5k+ Macbook Pro, soldered in RAM, dwindling customer service and reliability/innovation in the tools I use for work.

But yes, I have an iPhone. Checkout the anecdote at the beginning of my post. I too am living in 2020 and wasn't frozen in Carbonite for any of the years previous to this one.

 

[DrRadon]

Very reasonable attitude but different from mine. I have worked with computers for so long time and with different platforms so I also know that the grass is not greener on the other side. Some things are better, some are not for a given platform. Just like anything else in the world. I buy Apple because their products looks good and the basic user interactions of MacOS and iOS just feels right for me. I do not expect them to be perfect, have higher quality or more functions despite the price which actually is not that much higher for a similar product.

Let's say I am not a big fan of black or the previously beige plastic or the blocky Win10 that is worshipped in the corporate worlds or the LED light decorating a gaming rig.

You can buy apple because you are a fan. But even your soccer club can have a bad run of seasons despite you supporting them. 4000€ is a pretty steep price for a season ticket though.

 

[iPadified]

You can buy apple because you are a fan. But even your soccer club can have a bad run of seasons despite you supporting them. 4000€ is a pretty steep price for a season ticket though.

It's not a soccer game. Let's elaborate a little. I use "like" not "love" or "hate" associated with soccer club fans. If liking Apple products in general makes me a fan in you eyes - fine, you are welcome. What I really like is novelty i computers. The latest NVIDIA/AMD card stuck in a tower is not novel or ground breaking. The mobile fields, a field Apple is strong in, is much more interesting and the spillover to AS Mac chips is very exciting (which is not the same thing as loving!!!). I like what Apple is doing overall regarding computer paradigms (iPad, iPhones etc) because classical computers are not alone anymore in the playing field and Apple is excellent to make these computer platforms working together.

Can you show me where I can look on the apple store to reap the benefits as a user of Apple Computer hardware? I'm also curious if your opinion can change my experience as a user of Apple hardware over the previous 5-8 years or so vs. the 20 odd before this?

The exact question can be put for a PC. What is the benefit of using PCs? Cheaper - yes but you really get what you pay of ran the low end, more reliable - hardly, more upgradable - only a few models the rest are are un-upgradable as any Mac, thermally contained - many or most models just like Apple. Are PC more likely to adapt new components quickly - yes but considering the 5-10% increase in performance between generations, what does a few month do in the end? It is not black and white.

Apple does not have an affordable tower for DIY upgrades, which is a valid complaint. However, towers are not as popular anymore because there are computers of many sizes and thermal envelopes to people can chose from and as it turned out, towers are not the dominating form factor anymore.

 

[bigtomato]

Now that intel admitted its delayed chips, apple should adopt AMD for the next 5 years...

 

[DrRadon]

Now that intel admitted its delayed chips, apple should adopt AMD for the next 5 years...

WWDC felt like apple is going to do GPU all by themselfs as well.

 

[bigtomato]

It will be overpriced, they will be even more of a monopoly and no options...look at what they charge now for rx5600 mobile option on 16" MacBook Pro...$1,000...seriously it doesn't cost AMD much more than $75...

 

[DrRadon]

It's not a soccer game. Let's elaborate a little. I use "like" not "love" or "hate" associated with soccer club fans. If liking Apple products in general makes me a fan in you eyes - fine, you are welcome.

It is about liking something that is not in your hands yet what makes you a fan.
You are not seeing the flaws in your club while you are getting exited about the young, unproven, player that has just been signed for millions. Thats what fans do.

Realists might be more like. This sounds promising. But there is also this, that and those things that first need to be worked out both within the clubs current structure and in the development of that new player. Lets see were this actually goes.

I can't reiterate enough how willingly apple sold ****** products in the past few years. The 12 inch MacBook being the pinical of the overprices horrible (and the macbook lineup in general being disliked by my personal preference while the iMac still is rocking fusion drive even in it's 2500€ models).
Wait and see. If the first gen turns out bad or badly/glitchy supported by software apple (hopefully) will just sell something better years later at the same premium price while you sit there with your 4000€ machine you got all hyped about and now see it clearly distinguished as the introduction model (think the first iPad, think the first Apple Watch).

Unless you got tens of thousands of euro sitting in your bank account to be spend carelessly, it's okay to be careful with those sums of money. These big companies are not on your side, they are on the side of their stock holders. (just think about how google dropped "don't be evil" from their company code and switched it to "do the right thing" - the right thing for who? )