Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Freida]

Doesn't the upgrade break the warranty? I mean, you are going inside the machine which is sealed, isn't there a seal that says that breaking that will void warranty?

I'm not sure about this so asking.

I'll answer your 2nd point first. The NVME drive is faster in transfer speeds, but thats not very noticeable in real world use unless you're transferring truely giant (100gb plus sized files). What really makes an SSD 'feel' faster in average use are the virtually instantaneous access times, which ALL ssd's have, even 'lowly' SATA ssd's.

Back to your first point, I've upgraded drives on several imacs, including twice on friends 2017 imacs, so for me, doing the upgrade is not a problem. iFixit rates the difficulty as 'moderate'. So even they dont think its that difficult.

Why not just attach an external drive? For one, to me that somewhat defeats the beauty of having an 'all-in-one', and again, since I dont find doing the upgrade hard at all, I figure why not just go internal.

 

[pldelisle]

The NVME drive is faster in transfer speeds, but thats not very noticeable in real world use unless you're transferring truely giant (100gb plus sized files). What really makes an SSD 'feel' faster in average use are the virtually instantaneous access times, which ALL ssd's have, even 'lowly' SATA ssd's.

Everything is better with a PCI-Express NVME drive. Not only sequential speeds (and no, it doesn't take 100 GB file to appreciate the speed boost), but also random read/writes and access time which are usually 5 times lower than using the SATA bus.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12670/the-samsung-970-evo-ssd-review compares NVME drives with previous gen Samsung and Crucial SSDs. The results are impressive.

No, you might not greatly notice at naked eye the access time between SATA and NVME drive, but it's the principle. When buying a new computer in 2020, I would likely get rid of any storage that rely on SATA 6gbps. Even my 2013 MBP is in NVME PCI-Express. We are not in 2013 anymore. SATA is correct for HDDs, little storage servers, little NAS, but not for a new 2020 daily driver computer. We pushed NVME to market for this reason. We didn't invent NVME for fun. We need to take advantage of it.

But if you want to stay in old tech with an overpriced 2019 computer to which you void the warranty (because you are likely an individual, not an authorized Apple repair service), your choice. Can't do much for you.

 

[MacFather]

Another day, another disappointment.

View attachment 936687

 

[DrRadon]

Why are you on a Mac forum then?

We are all in a abusive relationship based on the memories of MacOS not being Catalina.
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Doesn't the upgrade break the warranty? I mean, you are going inside the machine which is sealed, isn't there a seal that says that breaking that will void warranty?

I'm not sure about this so asking.

If a apple approved repair workshop dos it its all fine.

 

[Nicole1980]

It's been fall this year to early next.

Azrael.
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No HDD.

Ancient tech'.

Azrael.
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Apple aint going to drop anything substantially.

They don't do price cuts.

3rd party retailers might.

Azrael.
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It will come. We're look at September for the CPU and GPU kit required. Stuff that hasn't and won't be released until September.

Both are more heat efficient options.

Patience testing. Ofc. As it means 'a bit longer' wait.

Azrael.
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Fusion drive is dead tech'.

And will be 'dodo'd' with the new iMac.

Azrael.

I agree the fusion drive sucks. But as I said in my post, I like them because that gives me a slot to upgrade to a huge ssd that apple doesnt even offer, and if they did would cost 4x more.
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Everything is better with a PCI-Express NVME drive. Not only sequential speeds (and no, it doesn't take 100 GB file to appreciate the speed boost), but also random read/writes and access time which are usually 5 times lower than using the SATA bus.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12670/the-samsung-970-evo-ssd-review compares NVME drives with previous gen Samsung and Crucial SSDs. The results are impressive.

No, you might not greatly notice at naked eye the access time between SATA and NVME drive, but it's the principle. When buying a new computer in 2020, I would likely get rid of any storage that rely on SATA 6gbps. Even my 2013 MBP is in NVME PCI-Express. We are not in 2013 anymore. SATA is correct for HDDs, little storage servers, little NAS, but not for a new 2020 daily driver computer. We pushed NVME to market for this reason. We didn't invent NVME for fun. We need to take advantage of it.

But if you want to stay in old tech with an overpriced 2019 computer to which you void the warranty (because you are likely an individual, not an authorized Apple repair service), your choice. Can't do much for you.

The transformational jump is going from any fusion/hdd to pretty much any ssd. I use all sorts of computers with both nmve and sata ssds and for me at least, the difference is not noticable.
I have two computers that i use a lot, one has an nvme with 2100mbs transfer speeds (blackmagic disk speed test) and then one with just the sata ssd. Never once when I use the one with a sata ssd do I think 'hmm, this feels slower'.
So you can throw all the numbers around you want, but if you have two comps like I do and use them alternatively, you might start to agree with me.

 

[pldelisle]

I agree the fusion drive sucks. But as I said in my post, I like them because that gives me a slot to upgrade to a huge ssd that apple doesnt even offer, and if they did would cost 4x more.
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The transformational jump is going from any fusion/hdd to pretty much any ssd. I use all sorts of computers with both nmve and sata ssds and for me at least, the difference is not noticable.
I have two computers that i use a lot, one has an nvme with 2100mbs transfer speeds (blackmagic disk speed test) and then one with just the sata ssd. Never once when I use the one with a sata ssd do I think 'hmm, this feels slower'.
So you can throw all the numbers around you want, but if you have two comps like I do and use them alternatively, you might start to agree with me.

Maybe, but it's more for the principle of not buying old tech in an overpriced 2019 machine (which is, we know, far older than 2019, with a Q4'18 CPU, Q2'17 GPU and 2012 display/design), voiding your warranty straight out of the box if you do it yourself, while still knowing you get inferior performance (even if you cannot see it over naked eyes). It's a big no-go for me.

 

[Freida]

Precisely. Anyone buying with Fusion is either average person that doesn't know or simply doesn't care (or both).

Sensible person would never get this. In fact, I even tested it as Apple store ONLY stock Fusion drives and I wanted to test drive the iMac. Oh man, that drive is pure insult to any customer and the clicking noise that comes from the head of the HDD is even worse. I can't understand why its still there and how come Apple doesn't stock any models with SSD.

That goes to show how they value us as customers.

Maybe, but it's more for the principle of not buying old tech in an overpriced 2019 machine (which is, we know, far older than 2019, with a Q4'18 CPU, Q2'17 GPU and 2012 display/design), voiding your warranty straight out of the box if you do it yourself, while still knowing you get inferior performance (even if you cannot see it over naked eyes). It's a big no-go for me.

 

[pldelisle]

Precisely. Anyone buying with Fusion is either average person that doesn't know or simply doesn't care (or both).

Sensible person would never get this. In fact, I even tested it as Apple store ONLY stock Fusion drives and I wanted to test drive the iMac. Oh man, that drive is pure insult to any customer and the clicking noise that comes from the head of the HDD is even worse. I can't understand why its still there and how come Apple doesn't stock any models with SSD.

That goes to show how they value us as customers.

But the point here is to buy it, open the iMac's box, put the iMac on a desk, tear it down right away, and change the drive for a SATA SSD. Which is still a no-go for me in 2020.

But totally agree. Buying an iMac with Fusion Drive AND use it straight with it is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

 

[Nicole1980]

Maybe, but it's more for the principle of not buying old tech in an overpriced 2019 machine (which is, we know, far older than 2019, with a Q4'18 CPU, Q2'17 GPU and 2012 display/design), voiding your warranty straight out of the box if you do it yourself, while still knowing you get inferior performance (even if you cannot see it over naked eyes). It's a big no-go for me.

As far as voiding the warranty, like I said I've done the ssd update on several imacs (probably 7 in all) and never had an issue with them - they all work just fine and never needed repair on them in warranty, or even once they were out of warrantly.
Maybe I'm just lucky ... or maybe I'm just that good

 

[xgman]

From a macrumors story today, is this Kuo prediction below for the imac pro still valid? Has Kuo said anything about the normal Intel imacs?

Apple has six mini-LED products in the works that are set to debut in 2020 and 2021, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. Apple is said to be debuting the technology in a 12.9-inch ‌iPad Pro‌ for launch later this year, followed by a 27-inch iMac Pro, a 14.1-inch MacBook Pro, a 16-inch ‌‌‌MacBook Pro‌‌‌, a 10.2.-inch iPad, and a 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini.

Kuo hasn't given projected launch dates for the other devices with the exception of the ‌‌‌iMac Pro‌‌‌, which Kuo expects to launch in the fourth quarter of 2020, and the 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini, which he says will launch in 2020.

 

[Freida]

Exactly! And no, upgrading shouldn't be the first thing you do unless its ram and you have ram door.
The whole marketing of Apple from the very start was : 'It just works' and that is not the case (honestly) today.
Sure, someone can argue that it works but its the same like arguing that having Intel Core 2 Duo Pentium today just works. Its an insult and it shouldn't be coming from Apple.

Regardless how easy or not the upgrade is its just not a valid excuse and it shouldn't be happening. In fact, Azrael invented a new swear word about that : FOR FUSION SAKE! and that thing is really valid.

Sorry, but we shouldn't even be defending this crap. FFS is ancient tech and shouldn't be present in products (or discussions for that matter) in 2020.

They can teach this in IT history. Shame on Apple for this crap.

When I buy iMac I expect it to open the box, put it on the desk and have a great machine. Not a machine that is crippled by the bloody drive! Especially at the price tag it comes with. Pure insult from Apple!

But the point here is to buy it, open the iMac's box, put the iMac on a desk, tear it down right away, and change the drive for a SATA SSD. Which is still a no-go for me in 2020.

But totally agree. Buying an iMac with Fusion Drive AND use it straight with it is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

As far as voiding the warranty, like I said I've done the ssd update on several imacs (probably 7 in all) and never had an issue with them - they all work just fine and never needed repair on them in warranty, or even once they were out of warrantly.
Maybe I'm just lucky ... or maybe I'm just that good

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I really hope we will get 12.9 iPad Pro this year. I really want to treat myself and I really don't want the bendy ones with almost no update.
So I hope this will solve it all. Stuff A12Z - give me A14 and make the structure more rigid. If you do that I will buy on day one. Simple as that.

From a macrumors story today, is this Kuo prediction below for the imac pro still valid? Has Kuo said anything about the normal Intel imacs?

Apple has six mini-LED products in the works that are set to debut in 2020 and 2021, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. Apple is said to be debuting the technology in a 12.9-inch ‌iPad Pro‌ for launch later this year, followed by a 27-inch iMac Pro, a 14.1-inch MacBook Pro, a 16-inch ‌‌‌MacBook Pro‌‌‌, a 10.2.-inch iPad, and a 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini.

Kuo hasn't given projected launch dates for the other devices with the exception of the ‌‌‌iMac Pro‌‌‌, which Kuo expects to launch in the fourth quarter of 2020, and the 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini, which he says will launch in 2020.

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Also, iMac Pro - hmmm, that could be interesting if they make the entry price a bit better and the specs will be awesome. Or make it redesign with bigger screen and I might be in also. Xmas might be expensive this year

 

[Kjs100]

From a macrumors story today, is this Kuo prediction below for the imac pro still valid? Has Kuo said anything about the normal Intel imacs?

Apple has six mini-LED products in the works that are set to debut in 2020 and 2021, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. Apple is said to be debuting the technology in a 12.9-inch ‌iPad Pro‌ for launch later this year, followed by a 27-inch iMac Pro, a 14.1-inch MacBook Pro, a 16-inch ‌‌‌MacBook Pro‌‌‌, a 10.2.-inch iPad, and a 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini.

Kuo hasn't given projected launch dates for the other devices with the exception of the ‌‌‌iMac Pro‌‌‌, which Kuo expects to launch in the fourth quarter of 2020, and the 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini, which he says will launch in 2020.

7 May MiniLED iMac Pro may have slipped to 2021.
21 June Intel iMac in Q3.
22 June 24" ARM iMac Q4.

Ming-Chi Kuo: Rumors from a Reliable Apple Analyst

Ming-Chi Kuo articles on MacRumors.com

www.macrumors.com

 

[pldelisle]

From a macrumors story today, is this Kuo prediction below for the imac pro still valid? Has Kuo said anything about the normal Intel imacs?

Apple has six mini-LED products in the works that are set to debut in 2020 and 2021, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. Apple is said to be debuting the technology in a 12.9-inch ‌iPad Pro‌ for launch later this year, followed by a 27-inch iMac Pro, a 14.1-inch MacBook Pro, a 16-inch ‌‌‌MacBook Pro‌‌‌, a 10.2.-inch iPad, and a 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini.

Kuo hasn't given projected launch dates for the other devices with the exception of the ‌‌‌iMac Pro‌‌‌, which Kuo expects to launch in the fourth quarter of 2020, and the 7.9-inch ‌‌‌iPad‌‌‌ mini, which he says will launch in 2020.

I doubt Kuo on this.
iPad events are usually in March. No iPad requires an upgrade right now or by the end of the year.

iMac Pro seems unlikely with AS platform. Apple will likely have a 24 iMac and 30-32 iMac with higher specs.

I think 14.1 MBP and 16 MBP will have MiniLED display by the end of next year when AS will be ready for both laptops. This will be a selling advantage for helping AS adoption.
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I really hope we will get 12.9 iPad Pro this year. I really want to treat myself and I really don't want the bendy ones with almost no update.

I don't know why you are focusing on iPad 12.9 bending, because it is not. At least not mine. I don't pitch it everywhere neither sit on it. I pay attention to my things. If you do so, you will never have any problem with it.

 

[CWallace]

It should be noted that Apple can’t simply drop in a new Intel CPU and AMD GPU in the 2019 design and call it a day. If the 2020 model includes a semi-custom Comet Lake S CPU as the leak suggests, then it would require a new motherboard with a new chipset. IOW, the 2020 Intel would likely require a partial redesign anyway, so why not just put it a new case too?

The new systemboard could have the same component layout as the existing one, however, to use the existing cooling of the current 5K iMac case.

The main reason for not using the (eventual) Apple Silicon case design for the Intel+AMD refresh is that the AS iMac will likely have a System TDP significantly below that of the I+A model so it would use a completely different cooling system design and layout.

 

[EugW]

The new systemboard could have the same component layout as the existing one, however, to use the existing cooling of the current 5K iMac case.

The main reason for not using the (eventual) Apple Silicon case design for the Intel+AMD refresh is that the AS iMac will likely have a System TDP significantly below that of the I+A model so it would use a completely different cooling system design and layout.

IMO, the current case is most appropriate for a 65 W TDP, despite utilizing 95 W chip at the top end. The machines with the 95 W chips ramp up the fan far too quick. Apple will use lower power chips for Arm, but I suspect they may target much higher wattages than the 30 W some in this thread suggest.

Just as important is the fact that Apple has previously used vastly different internal designs in differing models with the same external design. Interestingly enough, this is best exemplified by the iMac.

To be clear, my guess is that the new Intel iMac will use the old chassis, but my point here is those claiming it MUST use the old chassis for XYZ reasons aren't necessarily correct.

 

[Nicole1980]

Regardless how easy or not the upgrade is its just not a valid excuse and it shouldn't be happening. In fact, Azrael invented a new swear word about that : FOR FUSION SAKE! and that thing is really valid.

LOL, "It shouldn't be happening!".

It really kind of astounds me that there's people that seem offended that I prefer to take a little effort and do the ssd upgrade. That I DARE to take a little effort to add incredible value to the machine and removes the one thing that sucks about it - the fusion drive.

All the people at iFixit and the many who love that site would be rolling their eyes at all of you.

 

[pldelisle]

LOL, "It shouldn't be happening!".

It really kind of astounds me that there's people that seem offended that I prefer to take a little effort and do the ssd upgrade. That I DARE to take a little effort to add incredible value to the machine and removes the one thing that sucks about it - the fusion drive.

All the people at iFixit and the many who love that site would be rolling their eyes at all of you.

We just value new technologies. Not old one. A SATA SSD is still old technology.

 

[Nicole1980]

We just value new technologies. Not old one. A SATA SSD is still old technology.

Oh please. As I explained earlier, for me at least, the difference between a sata ssd in terms of real world speed and any nvme one is negligable.

So you're the kind of person who wants 'new' for the sake of 'new' - regardless the very limited value you actually get out of it, that's ok too.

 

[pldelisle]

So you're the kind of person who wants 'new' for the sake of 'new' - regardless the very limited value you actually get out of it, that's ok too.

Yep. I'm this guy.

That's what my 2011 compute workstation still works fine and my Late-2013 MBP is still my daily driver. Bought it when the technology was brand new and they still last me 9/7 years after.

 

[DrRadon]

Apple dos not care. Apples prefers to solder stuff to make it irreplaceable or enjoys a T2 chip to make it "only replaceable by the company" because it makes them ********s of money. It will be interesting to see how they move RAM along in ARM, since right now nothing on Apple Silicon has non soldered RAM.

I would be shocked if there would be SATA left in a redesigned intel iMac, i would be shocked if there was SATA left in any ARM Mac. If you don't like it, you got to buy now or you got to move away from Apple. There really is no argument on if thats needed or better. Just like i won't buy their MacBooks since they redesigned them to be slimmer instead of professional.

 

[Azrael9]

LOL, "It shouldn't be happening!".

It really kind of astounds me that there's people that seem offended that I prefer to take a little effort and do the ssd upgrade. That I DARE to take a little effort to add incredible value to the machine and removes the one thing that sucks about it - the fusion drive.

All the people at iFixit and the many who love that site would be rolling their eyes at all of you.

iFixit aren't running Apple.

The iMac 24 inch was doable. Magnets and all.

But the gaffer tape iMac with a guitar plectrum to hack off the screen? No thanks.

I don't think anybody is offended that you're trying to updgrade your machine. ('Good for you.') It's using yesteryear tech' and charging 'this year's' prices. It's easy enough to buy external drives, plug them into the ports, that run faster than Apple's antiquated bodge job. Better still, time for Apple to put in PCIE4 and a fast internal SSD.

Be much better if Apple made Desktop Macs user upgradeable like iMacs and Mini ghosts of the past or better, the Blue and White G3 tower which I did well fancy. It's just not the way the industry is going. It's SoC. Sealed. Lockdown. Throwaway. Buy a new one. iGreen.

I'd prefer a Mac Pro. But not at £6k with crap specs.

We're stuck with the iMac (formerly occupied by the Mac tower...in times past...) and all that goes with it. Because? Apple sat on the design under Cook and failed to galvanise the Desktop Mac Division to design stuff that gave better performance for the money.

For Fusions Sake.

Azrael.

 

[jetjaguar]

iFixit aren't running Apple.

The iMac 24 inch was doable. Magnets and all.

But the gaffer tape iMac with a guitar plectrum to hack off the screen? No thanks.

I don't think anybody is offended that you're trying to updgrade your machine. ('Good for you.') It's using yesteryear tech' and charging 'this year's' prices. It's easy enough to buy external drives, plug them into the ports, that run faster than Apple's antiquated bodge job. Better still, time for Apple to put in PCIE4 and a fast internal SSD.

Be much better if Apple made Desktop Macs user upgradeable like iMacs and Mini ghosts of the past or better, the Blue and White G3 tower which I did well fancy. It's just not the way the industry is going. It's SoC. Sealed. Lockdown. Throwaway. Buy a new one. iGreen.

I'd prefer a Mac Pro. But not at £6k with crap specs.

We're stuck with the iMac (formerly occupied by the Mac tower...in times past...) and all that goes with it.

For Fusions Sake.

Azrael.

I am considering it

 

[Azrael9]

Apple dos not care.

And nothing says 'I don't care' more than a 12 year old design.

Or taking 6 years to make a 'new' tower.

Azrael.
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I am considering it

If you have the budget and that's what you want. There's no denying the engineering in it is beautiful.

I'd rather there was a headless option between the mini and the 'Mac Pro'. *(Remembers when Mac Towers cost £1350-...)

But I won't hold my breath waiting for one nor buying the £6000 for specs that could be got on a PC for around £1250-1500 quite easily. £6k is really pushing the 'Because MacOS is worth it' argument.

Azrael.

 

[Nicole1980]

iFixit aren't running Apple.

The iMac 24 inch was doable. Magnets and all.

But the gaffer tape iMac with a guitar plectrum to hack off the screen? No thanks.

I don't think anybody is offended that you're trying to updgrade your machine. ('Good for you.') It's using yesteryear tech' and charging 'this year's' prices.

Azrael.

I don't disagree that apple shouldn't be using a fusion drive and that it totally sucks as a drive. I'm just explaining why it kinda works to my advantage. I can upgrade the current imac to make it much more of a 'today's tech' for infinitely less $ than apple would charge me. (and they don't even offer a 4tb ssd option in the iMac anyway - which is the size sata ssd I have in mine).

Trust me, in this next generation imac, when it's ssd only, and they DO offer a 4tb ssd, that'll be a $2000 bto option.

For a $1500 savings on the drive alone, I can live with slightly less than 'todays' tech.

P.S. as someone whose done upgrades on both the 'magnet' imacs and the current ones that use the sticky tape to hold the screen on, I actually find the current ones easier to deal with.

 

[Azrael9]

I would be shocked if there would be SATA left in a redesigned intel iMac, i would be shocked if there was SATA left in any ARM Mac. If you don't like it, you got to buy now or you got to move away from Apple. There really is no argument on if thats needed or better. Just like i won't buy their MacBooks since they redesigned them to be slimmer instead of professional.

We probably have to look at the iPad to see what the Mac AS will be.

It's not like the iMac is internally upgradeable now on Intel. Apple have locked it down at point of sale bar the RAM which (for now) you can upgrade after. You have the external ports for SSD and eGPU (for now.)

Azrael.
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I don't disagree that apple shouldn't be using a fusion drive and that it totally sucks as a drive. I'm just explaining why it kinda works to my advantage. I can upgrade the current imac to make it much more of a 'today's tech' for infinitely less $ than apple would charge me. (and they don't even offer a 4tb ssd option in the iMac anyway - which is the size sata ssd I have in mine).

Trust me, in this next generation imac, when it's ssd only, and they DO offer a 4tb ssd, that'll be a $2000 bto option.

For a $1500 savings on the drive alone, I can live with slightly less than 'todays' tech.

P.S. as someone whose done upgrades on both the 'magnet' imacs and the current ones that use the sticky tape to hold the screen on, I actually find the current ones easier to deal with.

I had a mechanical drive in the iMac. It was a moving part. And a point of failure. Which I had to crack open the magnet screened iMac to replace. Even I could do it. (But yeah, I guess there had to be one person on the planet that finds removing the gaffer tape and re-cellotaping the screen 'easier' than the magnet version... I knew one day you'd come...)

As for BTO. Apple's BTO prices are the stuff of legend. Or infamy if you prefer. But at least users can access cheaper external options than BTO'ing with Apple's Sith like upsell.

Apple can stick their 'sticky' (cheap skates, Apple...) where the sun don't shine...

The iMac wasn't made for the iFixit crowd. Anybody that can guitar plectrum that screen off without breaking it? *Gives out gold star.

iFixit. They won't be giving Apple high scores on Aunty Gladdyss being able to easily upgrade her iMac or Mac Mini or Macbook.

Dead and buried with the Jobs era.

Azrael.
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So you're the kind of person who wants 'new' for the sake of 'new' - regardless the very limited value you actually get out of it, that's ok too.

HDD and SSD. It's night and day.

Old Macbook duos and yes, iMacs that dumped the HDD and put an SSD in there had a new lease of life.

It's not 'newness' for 'newness' sake.

Archaic tech' to be putting in flagship iMacs. (Plug a HDD in externally if you must use them for 'storage.')

Or the junk £1050 iMac with core duo. Crap. Boot up torture.

Apple's marketing is boastful. Perhaps it should live up to that boast.

Removes legacy ports. But it's ok to leave legacy storage in there because £££. Even more insulting when they reduced the size of the SSD partition. (I'm one of the 'lucky' ones that got the 128 gig SSD partition on my for fusion's sake drive. Clearly profits 1st and product 2nd decision making.)

It was a kludge and hamfisted when first they did introduce it.

Azrael.