Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Homy]

I put together the specs for the whole AMD Pro 5000-series in MBP/iMac/Mac Pro for comparison. I also included specs for RX cards that pc users buy or you can use as eGPU with Mac. Many tests on Youtube for example show the result for RX cards which are faster than Pro cards in Macs. The specs are from AMD's website.


5300 in iMac is like 5500M in MBP in terms of TFLOPS. 5500XT is like 5600M in MBP. The more I think of it the more disappointed I feel about the GPU options in these new iMacs. I'm not even a serious gamer, but a casual gamer that plays games even with 20 fps with my iMac 2011 Radeon 6750 512MB, but as it is now the only option for us that want to buy a decent and somewhat future proof gaming Mac is to spend 3500-3800 dollars (in Sweden) on a iMac 27" with Radeon 5700/5700XT. That's a lot for me.

For God's sake Apple, Radeon 5300 is the worst card in the 5000-series. You can't even buy it in the retail stores or from AMD. You can't even now pay a bit extra to get a better GPU like 575X vs 570X. You can't even choose storage size for the first 27" model. You're stuck with 256GB. You must go all the way up to the top model to get 5500XT, the cheapest and most underpowered GPU in the 5000-series on the market which manages about 40-50 fps in 1440p TODAY. That for ca $3100!

After almost three decades of owning Macs even I’m starting to agree that Apple plays cheap and Macs are overpriced toys, at least GPU wise. I think this update is one of the worst with least options for those without a pocket full of money. Even with money I couldn’t justify $3800 to get good GPU performance. $400 extra for 5700 when it costs ca $160 extra for RX5700 in stores? $660 extra for 5700XT when RX5700XT costs ca $220 extra in stores? I know you can’t get 16GB in stores but still…

Instead of giving 5300 to iMac 21.5" they gave it to 27" and didn't do a thing with 21.5". The base 27” should start with 5500XT. There would still be several options for the other models. For example, what happened to 5600 and 5600XT? Tier 2 iMac 27” could have 5600 and the top 27” could start with 5600XT, with 5700 and 5700XT as option. Or it could be like 5500XT, 5600XT and 5700 with 5700XT as BTO, but 5300 in both cheaper models? Come on, I’m not that much of a fanboy.

My only hope now is that Apple gets its act together and at least offers decent GPUs in AS iMacs. Otherwise I don’t know what to do. PC, Xbox and PS5 is not an option. Just give me decent GPUs Apple in all your iMacs, not only the top model. Btw, don’t put your money on the 10-core i9 for gaming. Better to buy the 8-core with higher base frequency.

 

[jetjaguar]

There is nothing wrong with reevaluating decisions. Hold out for which product..?

AS iMac .. larger one .. so
I know I will have to wait until next year but could pick up AS laptop to hold me over until then

 

[Martinpa]

For the other people in the thread with 2012 or later Macs, I would just say wait. However, for you, it's more difficult since your machine doesn't seem so reliable, so it may make sense for you to buy now.

In fact, it may make sense just because some of your software might not be well supported on Apple Arm chips for a while, depending upon who makes it.

Most of what I use is Adobe, which should be good on AS, then sometimes DaVinci (I don't think they'll take a long time to move to AS either, but I could be surprised) or Apple's own FCPX/Motion/Compressor/LogicProX. It's more so Photoshop Plug-Ins I would be worried losing when we move to AS, but I still doubt it, since I only use a few, that are pretty widespread. But, yeah, since my iMac is pretty unreliable now, I think I'll go for it. When the AS ones come out (which is likely in a year's time IMO for the 27 equivalent) I'll can take my time to see what people say and decide if I want to switch, at which point the 2020iMac shouldn't have lost too much value, especially considering it'll be the last intel one, and some people will surely want to hang on to those.

How on earth did you survive using an older computer with 8K Raw footage?

The AS processors won't be hitting it right out of the gate immediately matching a 10 Core CPU and 5700XT GPU. Designing GPU is no easy feat and NVIDIA & AMD have been doing it for a long time.

I have no idea when Phase One, Adobe, Blackmagic, Maxon will be updating their software to run on AS natively. So for me it is going to be an Intel iMac for the interim.

I've been editing 6K and then 8K footage out of RED cameras since I got my 2013 iMac. Always just made proxies overnight (or over two nights depending on the project) in REDCINE-X. Even if it could run 8K RAW flawlessly, I would probably still make proxies; while it does that, I can read over the script, read scipty notes, or start the project in Premiere and organize things as they finish transcoding. My work environment doesn't demand super fast turnaround, so I'm okay with working like that.

Even though there is a lack of enough thunderbolt ports for me, I am going to aim for the top most spec iMac. The machine needs to fly especially when I am dealing with ProRes 422 HQ files.

I'm hesitant to upgrade the CPU and GPU... I want to keep the cost low, while having a good enough machine. My 2013 iMac was an quad-core i7, so I figured I don't need to pay the extra for the i9 (unless there's something about the i9 I don't know?). As for the GPU, the upgrades are pretty expensive, and I figured even with the base 5500 XT it would be an upgrade over my NVIDIA 780M...

 

[Freida]

If your usage is that light, save yourself the money and upgrade the ram. That will give you much more noticeable difference than the gpu.
add at least 8 (or ideally 16) for total of 16gb or 24gb respectively. Ram will allow you to have more open tabs, apps etc.
8gb is just not enough.
But if your usage is super light then maybe even 8gb will be ok.

I use my computer for very light home usage but I do need 1T possibly for photos and files. Not a gamer.

For this usage, would I notice enough difference between these two to pay the extra $300 ?

 

[DQ11]

* Can you pay some off right away and finance the rest? I can pay it all at once, I was just wondering, so I could build more credit history.

I can't seem to find much info on the site...it seems to make me want to do apple pay but I'd rather just use my own credit or debit card.

How is that i7 compared to the last gen i9?

** What ram do I buy for this model? Is it the same as the 2019?

 

[Martinpa]

Placed my order, and felt my heart sink. My boss owes me some money he's late on, so I'll just view my bank account as awaiting balancing from his payments.

 

[Synna]

I also posted this in another thread, but maybe the many people here can also help me with my decision. I am currently torn between

iMac 27"
3,6 GHz 10‑Core Intel Core i9
32GB RAM
Radeon Pro 5700 XT (16GB)
1TB SSD

and

iMac Pro
3,0 GHz 10-Core Intel Xeon W
32GB RAM
Radeon Pro Vega 56 (8GB)
1TB SSD

which amounts to roughly the same price in my region. Plus, I now somehow read more and more posts about it being better to just wait for an AS iMac, as these two might drop support quite soon, but if I am paying that much money for an iMac, I want to be able to use it around 5-7 years. Is that realistic/possible?

 

[The_Lord_of_Apple]

Placed my order, and felt my heart sink. My boss owes me some money he's late on, so I'll just view my bank account as awaiting balancing from his payments.

So what did you end up ordering!!!

I had to read your previous reply 3 times. You seem to be doing some heavy editing!!

 

[Martinpa]

So what did you end up ordering!!!

I had to read your previous reply 3 times. You seem to be doing some heavy editing!!

I got what I listed before, basically the most expensive base model, with the only upgrade being the SSD (i7, 8GB RAM (I’ll buy an upgrade somewhere else... do we know if the 8GB pre-installed is 1x8 or 2x4? I’ll get 2x16GB but if there’s a third available slot, I’ll get an 8GB also), 5500 XT, 1TB SSD and I picked the Magic Trackpad instead of the Magic Mouse). Didn’t want to go over 4000$ CAD, and knowing I’ll probably sell it in a year or two, didn’t want to go overkill.

I used to do more heavy stuff. I’m working on corporate gigs at the moment, but when I get the chance, I’ll get back to short films, hopefully moving up to features.

 

[krell100]

I also posted this in another thread, but maybe the many people here can also help me with my decision. I am currently torn between

iMac 27"
3,6 GHz 10‑Core Intel Core i9
32GB RAM
Radeon Pro 5700 XT (16GB)
1TB SSD

and

iMac Pro
3,0 GHz 10-Core Intel Xeon W
32GB RAM
Radeon Pro Vega 56 (8GB)
1TB SSD

which amounts to roughly the same price in my region. Plus, I now somehow read more and more posts about it being better to just wait for an AS iMac, as these two might drop support quite soon, but if I am paying that much money for an iMac, I want to be able to use it around 5-7 years. Is that realistic/possible?

My first choice would be to wait on an AS iMac if you possibly can, probably looking at mid-late 2021 though. If you absolutely positively must have one now.. tricky. The iMac seems to be the slightly better buy but depending on workflow that i9 will get mighty toasty so would prefer the iMP for that reason.. no right answer I'm afraid.

 

[Synna]

My first choice would be to wait on an AS iMac if you possibly can, probably looking at mid-late 2021 though. If you absolutely positively must have one now.. tricky. The iMac seems to be the slightly better buy but depending on workflow that i9 will get mighty toasty so would prefer the iMP for that reason.. no right answer I'm afraid.

I definitely need some kind of a machine right now, as my current laptop has stopped working. My third option would be a 16" MacBook Pro, but in regards to AS, there's the same problem there.

The cooling solution is what makes me lean towards the iMP, but I don't know how well those 2017 components still hold up.

 

[yellow_lupine]

I have found something interesting in Apple Support tech specs for the new iMac: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP821?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

It seems that the noise levels are much lower then the 2019 iMac and they seem to be in line with iMac Pro, at least at the base config: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP771?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Apple definitely must have changed something in the cooling system...

 

[cltd]

I created a thread, but I guess it is getting lost in the slew of posts:

I have a 27" late 2013 iMac (3.5GHz quad-core i7, 8GB RAM + 2x8GB user-installed, 1TB fusion Drive and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M) that just came out of "repair". It basically died in March but because of COVID, I waited for the stores to reopen to get it checked out. They got it working, but the issue is the motherboard and they can't say how long it'll hold on (and it's 800$ to replace it, which at this point isn't worth it for a 7yo computer).

I'm a video editor and I do photography, and until problems with the HDD and then the motherboard, never had much issues (even with 8K raw files, I just did proxies. The only thing that caused hiccups was when I tried to stich really big panoramas in Photoshop and it would run out of RAM and HDD space). Because I had a NVIDIA GPU, to take advatange of CUDA, I was stuck at High Sierra, and the whole thing was a mess.

So now, with today's refresh, I'm tempted to upgrade. I've been working on the office's Windows PC (now in my room) and that thing isn't all that. For some reason there's input lag when working in Photoshop, and the fan runs 100% of the time. My room is always at least 3-5 degrees hotter than the rest of the place.

With the Apple Silicon/redesign coming, I'm hesitant though. I'm thinking of getting a "modestly" spec'd iMac (Standard glass, 3.8GHz 8-core i7, 8GB RAM (and buy a 2x16GB upgrade seperately, for 40GB total) Radeon Pro 5500 XT, 1TB SSD storage). With the student discount, it'd be CAD 3 675$ with the AirPod Pro. Then I'd also have the option of selling it when the redesign comes out.

Any thoughts? I have my cursor ready to click on Checkout, but I'm hesitant...

I know your pain because I'm totally in the same boat. I got the same iMac model like You and its GPU fried in February. I'm tempted to get mid-tier 27" (3.3GHz 6-core, 512 SSD), but afraid to pour money down the drain on declining technology. It's not my style, each time Apple made transition I made jump too: I bought PPC Mac (6200), then I bought C2D Mac (white iMac). Decisions, decisions...

 

[fokmik]

Asides the silent update on 21.5 (no more fusion drive)

Fusion drive still exists so the internal space inside is unchanged

 

[kaans]

So can this new iMac be used as an external screen?

 

[fokmik]

So can this new iMac be used as an external screen?

No , and i guess the apple silicone Will not either

 

[Azrael9]

AMD announces Radeon Pro 5000 'Navi' series for Apple iMac - VideoCardz.com

New AMD Radeon™ Pro 5000 Series GPUs Bring Exceptional Graphics Performance to Updated 27-inch iMac SANTA CLARA, Calif., Aug. 04, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) today announced availability of new AMD Radeon™ Pro 5000 series GPUs for the updated 27-inch iMac. The new GPUs power a wide...

videocardz.com

Here's a bit more information on the line up of GPUs released for the iMac.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Beast config, I looked at that, tempted. But that’s £3.5k in UK. Until I tapped in my 2017 i7 8GB 1TB Radeon 580 serial for a trade-in figure... it said £250 - laughable. It’s probably got more rare scrap metal in than that. Anyway I don’t _need_ an upgrade, I just _want_ one. WIll wait for AS step change.

There's nothing wrong with your 2017. Had I had that? I would have waited.

AS isn't 'that' far away.

And it will bury the machine I just ordered.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Good for you. I'm not buying anything until I see reviews for noise and heat with different configs.
Also, going to Vancouver next week so I hope to see XDR in person (hopefully) and the iMac nano thing too if possible.
Lets see.

Also, do you feel that resale of this last 27" iMac will be bad in few years time as we will all be on AS or will it actually be better as some will still look for Intel? I lean towards terrible resale value. You?

The Good.

10 Core.
5700XT (With 16 gigs of GPU memory.)
SSD (finally...)
100% Intel compatible.
Boot Camp gives a darn good PC as well as a darn good iMac.

The Bad.

Cooling..?
iStale design.

The Ugly.

Legacy Resale price.

(But even before the move to AS, Apple and retailers would give you peanuts for your old rig. Selling it 2nd hand is an option but it will take some hit as Intel will be a legacy platform. I find it best to use machines until they drop. And get full use out of them.)

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

And now i can't order because my vendor has not gotten price lists from apple yet.

 

[fokmik]

And now i can't order because my vendor has not gotten price lists from apple yet.

maybe its a sign
Do not buy it do not buy it
kidding of courseee

 

[DrRadon]

The Ugly.

Resale price.

I don't think it's ugly.
And the flipping horrible 12 inch MacBook still sells for over 500€. Apple Computers hold value despite all flaws. The Fanboy is your reselling friend.

 

[wardie]

There's nothing wrong with your 2017. Had I had that? I would have waited.

AS isn't 'that' far away.

And it will bury the machine I just ordered.

Azrael.

That’s what I figured too... obviously it’s not only got the factory-ordered 8GB RAM in it currently. One pain with my current machine is the lack of many USB-C ports as most things I buy today to add on seem to be TB3 or USB 3.1g2. I’ve got a USB3.1 hub to partly solve that. But they didn’t change that with the latest issue. I don’t mind the glossy screen if you’re careful with bright lights directly behind seating.

 

[wave84]

I have found something interesting in Apple Support tech specs for the new iMac: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP821?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

It seems that the noise levels are much lower then the 2019 iMac and they seem to be in line with iMac Pro, at least at the base config: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP771?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Apple definitely must have changed something in the cooling system...

I am 1000% sure that the new 27" iMac has 2 fans. Probably smaller than the ones on the Pro, but 2 nonetheless.
Why?

1. yellow_lupine's observation
2. The fact that they kept the fusion drive as an option for the 21 but not on the 27. There's no explanation for that, not unless they wanted to free the space for something else on the 27 (a fan).
3. Both the 5700XT and the 10th gen CPUs are power hungry. The old iMac was already struggling with temperature control. Including these was the tipping point to improve the cooling system, at least a bit.

The fact that they kept the RAM door tells me that the heatsink and fans aren't as large as the ones on the iMac pro, though. So my guess is the 2020 iMac design is a mix between the Pro and the old iMac.

 

[DrRadon]

I am 1000% sure that the new 27" iMac has 2 fans. Probably smaller than the ones on the Pro, but 2 nonetheless.
Why?

1. yellow_lupine's observation
2. The fact that they kept the fusion drive as an option for the 21 but not on the 27. There's no explanation for that, not unless they wanted to free the space for something else on the 27 (a fan).
3. Both the 5700XT and the 10th gen CPUs are power hungry. The old iMac was already struggling with temperature control. Including these was the tipping point to improve the cooling system, at least a bit.

The fact that they kept the RAM door tells me that the heatsink and fans aren't as large as the ones on the iMac pro, though. So my guess is the 2020 iMac design is a mix between the Pro and the old iMac.

This is super news.
But from what little i understand this is at the lowest level of load (25 websites?)
Might it just be a more modern single fan? A bit less watt? A bit more smooth?
Non the less, more silent is welcome. Looking forward to seeing the first teardown, probably by the weekend or even as early as tomorrow for non BTO.

Do i understand this properly? -3dB means it is half as audible?