Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[sublunar]

It's getting discontinued probably because Samsung and GlobalFoundries are abandoning 14nm process node and moving toward 7nm fabrication process.

But for a marketing point of view, current iMac Pro with Vega 64 does 24 TFLOPs Half, 12 TFLOPs single precision. Because 14nm Vega 48/56/64 are discontinued, that means only two GPUs can be put in iMac Pro : Radeon Pro Vega II released end of last year with Mac Pro, still on CGN5.0 but on 7nm fabrication process and does 28 TFLOPS half, 14 TFLOPs Single precision (actually a small increase over actual Vega), and W5700X which does 18.9 TFLOPs Half, 9.4 TFLOPS single precision, an actual decrease from Vega 64 while being newer generation. I don't know for you, but for me, it's a bit strange... There is no other offering at AMD for now. And supporting two generations of a GPU in an iMac Pro which GPU is soldered on board and requires different hardware implementation is a non sense. iMac Pro can only have one GPU architecture in it.

Does that suggest to you that the iMac Pro as a proof of concept is a dead product and that a T2 all SSD iMac is in line to replace it even if it 'only' has Comet Lake S and RDNA GPU series?

Or is the iMac Pro about to come down market and accept the 'lesser' GPUs on offer for the moment?

 

[pldelisle]

I think there is still place for the iMac Pro in Apple's lineup, but in reality, maybe it was only a one generation product for waiting for a better Mac Pro. Now, Mac Pro is released so Apple may not need the iMac Pro anymore.

This is sad, because power users like me still find a use in the iMac Pro with Xeon CPUs. But yeah, it might already be dead and we just don't know it ... My friend at Apple says he rarely ever see someone walking out with an iMac Pro and he personally thinks it's a dead product.

But if they abandon it, the 27" iMac must ship with 10 cores, up to 128 GB RAM (max of Comet Lake S), 4-8 TB SSD, 1080p FaceTime camera, Bluetooth 5.0 and a really capable GPU like a Radeon Pro 5700 or something like that (Navi 10 XT). And having no Xeon is sad ...

 

[sublunar]

I think there is still place for the iMac Pro in Apple's lineup, but in reality, maybe it was only a one generation product for waiting for a better Mac Pro. Now, Mac Pro is released so Apple may not need the iMac Pro anymore.

This is sad, because power users like me still find a use in the iMac Pro with Xeon CPUs. But yeah, it might already be dead and we just don't know it ... My friend at Apple says he rarely ever see someone walking out with an iMac Pro...

But if they abandon it, the 27" iMac must ship with 10 cores, up to 128 GB RAM (max of Comet Lake S), 4-8 TB SSD, 1080p FaceTime camera, Bluetooth 5.0 and a really capable GPU... ! And having no Xeon is sad ...

If it is to be Comet Lake S in an all new iMac 27", T2, SSD, and (controversially) locked in RAM starting at 16Gb (up to 128Gb as you say) then all of it could be feasible If the plan is to discontinue the iMac Pro.

The cooling system would certainly need to have been reworked - but they've already proved that they can do that. Maybe they could even figure out a way to throw in 4 Thunderbolt ports with Titan Ridge controllers to further soften the loss of the iMac Pro.

And make it Space Grey...

 

[pldelisle]

Totally agree. Need 4 thunderbolt ports out from 2 Titan Ridge controllers. Z490 chipset has enough PCI-Express lanes for that.

 

[CWallace]

I think there is still place for the iMac Pro in Apple's lineup, but in reality, maybe it was only a one generation product for waiting for a better Mac Pro. Now, Mac Pro is released so Apple may not need the iMac Pro anymore.

I've believed that Apple would update the iMac Pro before Ming-Chi Kuo issued his rumor guidance that there would be a Late 2020 iMac Pro update.

Intel announced upgrade CPU parts in Late 2019 (W-2200 Series Xeon) so now the wait is likely on AMD to ship RDNA2 GPUs and fingers crossed they can do so by the end of the year (though Apple could fall-back on the AMD Radeon Pro W5700X and/or AMD Radeon Pro Vega II as used in the 2019 Mac Pro if they had to.

 

[pldelisle]

I've believed that Apple would update the iMac Pro before Ming-Chi Kuo issued his rumor guidance that there would be a Late 2020 iMac Pro update.

Intel announced upgrade CPU parts in Late 2019 (W-2200 Series Xeon) so now the wait is likely on AMD to ship RDNA2 GPUs and fingers crossed they can do so by the end of the year (though Apple could fall-back on the AMD Radeon Pro W5700X and/or AMD Radeon Pro Vega II as used in the 2019 Mac Pro if they had to.

Radon Pro Vega II’s TDP is way too high to fit into an iMac form factor (475w). The highest GPU that can sit into an iMac Pro is the W5700X (235w I think), which is lower spec than Vega 64.

 

[CWallace]

Radon Pro Vega II’s TDP is way too high to fit into an iMac form factor (475w). The highest GPU that can sit into an iMac Pro is the W5700X (235w I think), which is lower spec than Vega 64.

Fair enough, though Apple could under-clock it to reduce the thermal load and the iMac Pro thermal system is currently weighted towards lower noise over raw cooling ability so they could have headroom (at the cost of more noise) for those willing to make that tradeoff.

 

[pldelisle]

That would be a hell of a downclock ahahah

But i don’t think it’s the real TDP. Techpowerup says 475w, but this is the theoretical power draw. The mac pro has a 1.4kW PSU and can be loaded with two Radeon Pro Vega II Duo, Afterburner board, 28 core CPU and 1.5 TB of RAM. Considering each board drawing 500w, that would leave 400w for the whole system, including a 165W+ cpu. So probably the Vega II Is drawing 250-275W peak, but it’s still old generation hardware.

 

[iPadified]

MBP 13 inch update (will not call this a new MBP) was less ambitions than the iPP 2020 update. At any rate, the BTO lead time is still very long for 27 and has been for two weeks so something is up. They may simply chose to sell their stock before an update.

The easiest update of the 27 would be to give it iMP cooling and the strongest possible components as discussed above. iMP can easily be differentiated with a 27 inch miniLED XDR like screen and higher core counts and all the other goodies. 21 inch can transform into an 23 inch "air" using laptop components. That does not translates into "cheap" though.

If the (intel) Mac was dead to Apple, the MP and the XDR screen would not have happened. I believe iMac/iMP users are the same kind that uses MP, that is they depend on MacOS (terminal, file management) and x86 compatibility although with less hardware requirement.

Until the iPad challenge the iMac in form factor (large screen), true window multitasking for productivity, complex software and CPU/GPU power, the iMac still has a place. I do not expect that to happen for a considerable time so investing some resources to design the "last" iMac case should be OK. It is currently some laptops that currently challenged by the iPad and has so increasingly for some time.

 

[sublunar]

I've believed that Apple would update the iMac Pro before Ming-Chi Kuo issued his rumor guidance that there would be a Late 2020 iMac Pro update.

Intel announced upgrade CPU parts in Late 2019 (W-2200 Series Xeon) so now the wait is likely on AMD to ship RDNA2 GPUs and fingers crossed they can do so by the end of the year (though Apple could fall-back on the AMD Radeon Pro W5700X and/or AMD Radeon Pro Vega II as used in the 2019 Mac Pro if they had to.

All the parts are there for a refresh on RDNA lines - the presence of the W5700X makes a compelling choice for an update now. I guess the iMac Pro is probably less sensitive to potential AMD delays than the iMac is though.

My original plan would be to reconfigure the iMac Pro line to cater for high end iMac 27" buyers using a lower priced entry level model - perhaps with 6 cores, 12 threads.

Lower end 27" buyers would be shepherded towards a 23" 4.6k solution which would be able to start at a lower cost and potentially using Comet Lake parts.

Discontinuing the iMac Pro would be a loss of a significant halo product in the Mac line, keeping it around even for a relatively low number of buyers might be in Apple's interests.

 

[DrRadon]

Please Tim be good ?

View attachment 912019

I also saw this. Guy is trust worthy. I hope that means it's days or weeks away rather than month.
Considering he leaked nothing about it at all i would assume a specs bump wich would be great.

 

[sublunar]

Radon Pro Vega II’s TDP is way too high to fit into an iMac form factor (475w). The highest GPU that can sit into an iMac Pro is the W5700X (235w I think), which is lower spec than Vega 64.

A generous price cut would probably help a lot of people who might be disappointed with a relative loss of GPU compute. Otherwise Apple could double the storage, double the RAM and throw a couple of extra cores in for a refresh at no additional cost.

That should soften the blow of the loss of a few TFLOPS.

They could also wait for an RDNA2 part I guess. It would certainly differentiate an iMac Pro from iMac.

 

[Migranya]

More rumors. Maybe new iMac release this week?

 

[Azrael9]

I think there is still place for the iMac Pro in Apple's lineup, but in reality, maybe it was only a one generation product for waiting for a better Mac Pro. Now, Mac Pro is released so Apple may not need the iMac Pro anymore.

This is sad, because power users like me still find a use in the iMac Pro with Xeon CPUs. But yeah, it might already be dead and we just don't know it ... My friend at Apple says he rarely ever see someone walking out with an iMac Pro and he personally thinks it's a dead product.

But if they abandon it, the 27" iMac must ship with 10 cores, up to 128 GB RAM (max of Comet Lake S), 4-8 TB SSD, 1080p FaceTime camera, Bluetooth 5.0 and a really capable GPU like a Radeon Pro 5700 or something like that (Navi 10 XT). And having no Xeon is sad ...

Fair comment.

The iMac Pro is £2k over right now. (It's already $3,500 in some sales right now.)

It's a £3k product, tops. It makes more sense to consolidate it as the 'new' iMac with a bezel trim.

It doesn't cost £5k to get an 8 core PC with an old, mid range GPU in PC land. You can even get a 12 core system for far less than £2k.

You can spec the iMac out with 8 core and the so-so middle of the road Vega 48 for far less. Only Apple has the affrontary to keep selling stuff like the iMac Pro at full whack. 3 years. It's old.

The current iMac is a year old.

The design is too old.

Lose the Xeons to the Mac Pro.

Azrael.
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A generous price cut would probably help a lot of people who might be disappointed with a relative loss of GPU compute. Otherwise Apple could double the storage, double the RAM and throw a couple of extra cores in for a refresh at no additional cost.

That should soften the blow of the loss of a few TFLOPS.

They could also wait for an RDNA2 part I guess. It would certainly differentiate an iMac Pro from iMac.

*chokes. Apple, price cut?

You've convinced me, though.

Just put the iMac Pro in a £3k sale for the entry model to clear the inventory out.

I'm quietly confident the new iMac will embarrass it further.

Azrael.
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More rumors. Maybe new iMac release this week?

A tease, then? As a 'Mac-less' denizen of the 'can't (or won't) afford the Mac Pro under-class...I'm wristful of an iMac update to make Steve Jobs himself proud.

It's pretty obvious that the 'new' (if precedent of this year so far...) spec bumped iMac must be imminent. We had the Mac Pro upated on it's 6 year cycle. The Macbooks have followed. The 'it's not dead' update to the Mac Mini (minimal update...)

All we need now is another 'toxic' update to the desktop Macs.

Naturally, I'm dreaming of a 6k 32 incher with internals to humble the iMac Pro. A 'paint job' to 'pro' grey (gray for my US cousins...) Even hoping for a gpu that has launched within the last year...and bezel trimming. BzzzzzZZZzzzz. *(sound of chainsaw.)


Azrael.

 

[762999]

I think there is still place for the iMac Pro in Apple's lineup, but in reality, maybe it was only a one generation product for waiting for a better Mac Pro. Now, Mac Pro is released so Apple may not need the iMac Pro anymore.

This is sad, because power users like me still find a use in the iMac Pro with Xeon CPUs. But yeah, it might already be dead and we just don't know it ... My friend at Apple says he rarely ever see someone walking out with an iMac Pro and he personally thinks it's a dead product.

But if they abandon it, the 27" iMac must ship with 10 cores, up to 128 GB RAM (max of Comet Lake S), 4-8 TB SSD, 1080p FaceTime camera, Bluetooth 5.0 and a really capable GPU like a Radeon Pro 5700 or something like that (Navi 10 XT). And having no Xeon is sad ...

I think the iMP will go away. It was there because the MP was not ready. New iMac will probably get T2 and ssd storage (256gb) with new cpu refresh and that's it. I think they will milk the user another year if their new screen technology is not ready. At one point they will bring the iMP cooling over.

 

[pldelisle]

I think the iMP will go away. It was there because the MP was not ready. New iMac will probably get T2 and ssd storage (256gb) with new cpu refresh and that's it. I think they will milk the user another year if their new screen technology is not ready. At one point they will bring the iMP cooling over.

You are probably right. And personally, except the bezels, the current iMac is more than enough. Screen is nice.

 

[sublunar]

More rumors. Maybe new iMac release this week?

Jon Prosser appears to have said pretty much the same. The 27" iMac situation remains 3-4 weeks away in the US (21.5" is 6-8 days, iMac Pro is 2-3 Weeks). In the UK (where dates are more precise): iMac Pro is slipping (May 13-14 for base config, May 27-Jun 2 for BTO), as is iMac 27" (June 2 to June 9), while the 21.5" iMac BTO is showing May 19-21.

It's looking more like the 21.5" is getting the light touch refresh like the Mac mini and 15w MacBook Pro.

The 27" is the one to look at - it's been solidly BTO June for a few days now, while the iMac Pro is hard to call, slipping into late May

I would say we're looking at a press release refresh just before WWDC or just after.

 

[762999]

Jon Prosser appears to have said pretty much the same. The 27" iMac situation remains 3-4 weeks away in the US (21.5" is 6-8 days, iMac Pro is 2-3 Weeks). In the UK (where dates are more precise): iMac Pro is slipping (May 13-14 for base config, May 27-Jun 2 for BTO), as is iMac 27" (June 2 to June 9), while the 21.5" iMac BTO is showing May 19-21.

It's looking more like the 21.5" is getting the light touch refresh like the Mac mini and 15w MacBook Pro.

The 27" is the one to look at - it's been solidly BTO June for a few days now, while the iMac Pro is hard to call, slipping into late May

I would say we're looking at a press release refresh just before WWDC or just after.

it's possible that the 21" iMac wont get newer cpus (like the lower end macbook ). They will probably give new cpus to the 27". If there is a redesign it will be shown at WWDC otherwise it will be released prior to that. It would be useless to talk about it at wwdc if it's only a minor refresh.

 

[Azrael9]

Jon Prosser appears to have said pretty much the same. The 27" iMac situation remains 3-4 weeks away in the US (21.5" is 6-8 days, iMac Pro is 2-3 Weeks). In the UK (where dates are more precise): iMac Pro is slipping (May 13-14 for base config, May 27-Jun 2 for BTO), as is iMac 27" (June 2 to June 9), while the 21.5" iMac BTO is showing May 19-21.

It's looking more like the 21.5" is getting the light touch refresh like the Mac mini and 15w MacBook Pro.

The 27" is the one to look at - it's been solidly BTO June for a few days now, while the iMac Pro is hard to call, slipping into late May

I would say we're looking at a press release refresh just before WWDC or just after.

It feels 'close' and the hints are beginning to drop now. Looks like the 27 incher will be the one to watch.

I can live with that.

Azrael.

 

[762999]

It feels 'close' and the hints are beginning to drop now. Looks like the 27 incher will be the one to watch.

I can live with that.

Azrael.

I agree, this will happen but I don't think I will buy another one.

The following config already cost : $5,408.42 (in Canada, including taxes). This is nothing but a joke. I know I know, you can buy the ram elsewhere, but it's also make a point that Apple laughs at everyone by overpricing everything they can.

27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display

• 3.6GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
• 32GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
• Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
• 1TB SSD storage
• Magic Mouse 2

 

[pldelisle]

Yep It's sad. While the laptops are correctly priced versus the built and general software quality and performance, the Mac desktops are overpriced for what they have. For 5400$ CAD, I admit I could build a hell of a workstation with that. But you can save like 600$ by buying RAM from Crucial or Kingston.That drastically drop the price. +500$ for the 8 core CPU is also a joke. +585$ for a discontinued Vega GPU is also a joke. And then you get a 2 generation old GPU ... in a 4000$ CAD desktop.

 

[762999]

Yep It's sad. While the laptops are correctly priced versus the built and general software quality and performance, the Mac desktops are overpriced for what they have. For 5400$ CAD, I admit I could build a hell of a workstation with that. But you can save like 600$ by buying RAM from Crucial or Kingston.That drastically drop the price. +500$ for the 8 core CPU is also a joke.

here with taxes the LOWER-TIER mbp13 is $3,103.18 ($3,446.95 with Applecare and taxes). I bought a 15" 4k thinkpad 2 years ago with 32gb and dual batteries ~1800$

Lower tier i7 MBP13

• 1.7GHz quad-core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz
• 16GB 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory
• 1TB SSD storage
• 13-inch Retina display with True Tone

Higher tier i7 MBP13 = 3333$ (taxes inc) or $3,676.90 with applecare and tax.

 

[pldelisle]

I like Lenovo, they are well built, yeah. Especially the P series. But overall, it's not as convenient to use as an Apple computer. It because a bit better when you put Ubuntu on it, but again, Ubuntu (with GUI) is far from the solidity of macOS. And the non P-Series screens are no where near Apple's quality.
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Best bang for the buck actually for a MBP13 I personally think. 3,676.90$ CAD tax in.

And don't forget : our Canadian dollar is currently freaking low. This reflects greatly in the price and this is not Apple's fault. The same model in the US is 600$ less, which is largely correct. There is quite a difference between a current 0.70$ vs a 0.78$ we had prior to COVID-19.

 

[762999]

I like Lenovo, they are well built, yeah. Especially the P series. But overall, it's not as convenient to use as an Apple computer. It because a bit better when you put Ubuntu on it, but again, Ubuntu (with GUI) is far from the solidity of macOS. And the non P-Series screens are no where near Apple's quality.
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Best bang for the buck actually for a MBP13 I personally think.

with taxes, your screenshot it $3,676.90 for an i5 CPU and only 512GB of storage. I agree It's an appropriate machine but not for the price (at least in Canada).

I own a thinkpad P serie! and a Yoga (for Wife). The P serie is bulkier than the macbook (I had the rMBP 15" 2013) but have many ports and dual batteries. The Yoga is very enjoyable and mac like. I actually prefer it since it has touchscreen and pen which I find more and more interesting the more I use it. It's very lightweight and powerfull, i5 16gb and got it ~1300 with taxes.

PS:
I also have a Dell 13 inspiron (touchscreen also) but I don't really like it because of the fan noise that kicks to maximum speed with around 30% cpu usage.

 

[pldelisle]

Ports doesn't matter. Thunderbolt ports are universal, speedy, carries every single type of media into one cable, and charges. This is more than enough. For old things there are docks. This is not something I first check when buying a computer, it's the last one !

And oh, f*** touch screens. I have an iPad Pro for this. My laptop must be clean. I'm a software engineer. Don't talk to me about touchscreen. What's the point of having a P3 color calibrated, Retina resolution, a superb panel with fingerprints on it. Nope, not for me and not for 95% of professionals.

With minor exceptions, Apple computers are quality product. I prefer macOS and UNIX underneath it more than any other OS (and I tried a LOT). Costly, but reliable when taken care of (MacBook Pro 15 Late-2013 High end here is still my daily driver, even if I'm a software engineer in data science). I wouldn't hesitate to buy any new MacBook Pro now, even if it's costly. I know it will last for long.

A Lenovo P53 configured with an 8-core CPU, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Quadro 4000 is priced at 3800 CAD + tx. Similarly configured MacBook Pro 16 is 4300 +tx. 500$ difference. Worth every penny. P53 is not a bad machine. It's the best of Lenovo, literally, but doesn't run macOS.