Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Moonjumper]

As people have mentioned that the most appropriate components for the iMac Pro are not available until much later in the year (especially the GPU), it creates problems if an updated iMac overlaps the performance too much. I could see Apple waiting until WWDC to release saying here is the iMac. We wish we could release a new iMac Pro, but these are the components it will have, but they are not ready until later in the year, when you will see the new model (they did an advance notice of the original iMac Pro at WWDC). If Apple also announce Arm Macs are on the way, this is one of the reasons why.

On the tower issue that has come up, I would absolutely love a mythical xMac. The Mini does not have enough power, the Pro is too expensive. There is a massive gap. The iMac is in that performance range, but it means updating the screen and computer at the same time, and has less flexible options. Some want a 32" screen, some 24", 27", etc. I like the screen on my iMac, but it doesn't have height adjustment (it is too high for me before anyone says put a riser underneath, the top of the screen should be at eye level for correct ergonomics), so isn't my first choice.

 

[sublunar]

I can't help myself, but £250 for 16GB of low-end RAM (Apple always uses ****, low speed RAM). This wouldn't change when it came to Ryzen. £120 is fine for 3200Mhz.

I conflated motherboard together with RAM for brevity - and yes Apple don't aways use top notch Intel chipsets but they do add Thunderbolt controllers. I wasn't about to get into that argument as you may have noticed.

The point of the PC building wasn't to prove how much it cost individually but to illustrate that Azrael's pricing was generally way off if the aim was to build a PC that would match a Mac for external quality of life.

I wasn't even attempting very hard to get directly equivalent PC parts since it's accepted that Apple price their PCs competitively if you do your parts analysis in the first month after a product launches. They just evidently don't choose parts that seasoned PC builders would choose.

And in any case, a lot of PC builders I notice spend peanuts on the case silencing and cooling solutions. They'd rather get the RGB lights in which really annoys me almost as much as people comparing the cheapest non cached QLC SATA rubbish with top class SLC/MLC M.2 PCIe NAND.

The RAM argument is actually important in this case since Ryzen is more affected by slower RAM and lack of dual channel paired sticks than Intel is. Apple do use commodity RAM for their Macs but it doesn't matter as much on Intel CPUs - if you're having Joe Public insert any old mismatching RAM into a 27" iMac you can be sure it'll be fine if a bit slower. That might not be so easy on a Ryzen model where I have read articles about certain RAM just not working.

And I'll swing for anyone who thinks that a £25 steel PC case with 'free' 350w PSU is going to be better than a PROPER noise baffled and filtered PC case with decent airflow and quality PSU capable of not blowing up your £2k PC. Yes, I do not blink at case/PSU combos costing north of £300 - and this is before I've even looked at the custom CPU cooler after ditching the free one that comes with most CPUs.

I'll get off my soap box now

 

[Paratriplel]

Apple don't really make a Mac for me. A good iMac (with the above items fixed) or a mid-range tower (£2-3k) would be perfect. Given the ******** that is now Apple software, especially Catalina, I tempted more than ever to build a PC (Ryzen 3700X and 5700XT). A bloody decent machine for £1300 or so. I can't even say I want to use a Mac for the OS, because I bet I'd have less headaches with Windows 10, and that's saying something....

That could just sa well have been written by me.
I’d so badly want Apple to offer something like a “Mac”, no fancy screens, no ultra high end CPU’s or GPU’s but please make few stock models and let us have a few BTO options so that this “Mac” that is a Mac tower aimed towards people needing something more than the “high end” Mac Mini but not nearly needing the power of your new Mac Pro.
If a tower isn’t appleish enough, make it an Apple product and give it your design tweaks but please please cool it properly.

I myself need something for music production on hobby/semi level and 3D Modeling on hobby level. The high end 2019 iMac 27” did not do it for me, I did however just try the 3,7 GHz i5 because I need a quiet machine and I noticed the fans a few times during music production and the 3D software actually crashed several times. My 2015 MacBook Pro 15” seems to handle the work load of music production almost as good but of course a lot louder but to my surprise it handles 3D modeling a lot better so I sent it back and I’m extremely glad I did.

If Apple doesn’t acknowledge the people that are inbetween, I’ll maybe get a 16” (second hand just to protest) and / or build myself a powerful PC tower and maybe I’ll not give the hackinto an a try but instead begin my transition away from the Mac world have some friends that have been on me about it and teased me long enough and I’m starting to see their point after there’s years.

I hope it doesn’t come to this because I don’t mind paying a 500 Apple tax but over that it just becomes silly I must say that Tim will really be known as the person that made Apple the most money but at the same time drove the company to the bottom, doesn’t matter how much money you’ve made a company when the core base leaves you and will never forget what you did against them and the rest of the people just fine the next shiny thing to spend their cash on. Well I might be wrong and they have started to make some right decisions lately but it’s a lot more that needs to be done right in my opinion.

Oh and Azrael is spot on as always. I hope he never goes anywhere for as long as I continue to reading here!


Please make an awesome 30-32” iMac or give us a rightfully priced (well that doesn’t cost us over $5000) Mac-tower and we’ll be so satisfied with you Apple!

 

[spidertaker23]

Apple could easily make a modular tower PC like the Mac Pro, but for normal consumers but they don't for some reason. They probably don't think there is a big market for that type of PC. I imagine like everyone has said they feel this need is served by the Mac Mini and the iMac. I think it is most served by the iMac, but what about people who want good cpu, gpu and upgradable memory but they want to use 2 to 3 monitors or they want 1 giant 49" super ultra wide? I want a powerful mac that isn't locked into the display and thermals that Apple does with the iMac. Unfortunately, the Mac Mini with it's small size, poor thermals and integrated graphics aren't enough for me. I can't in good conscious as a veteran PC builder buy a PC that runs at 90 to 100C at sustained load. Thought about eGPU, but why spend $300 extra dollars for an eGPU enclosure to run a GPU that is throttled by the bandwidth of thunderbolt 3 and Apple doesn't support in Bootcamp and won't support Nvidia GPUs.

It is weird that Apple has completely ignored the consumer gaming industry. PC gaming is actually been on the rise in the last few years compared to consoles. They could stand to make some good money if they worked on a way of emulating DirectX on MacOS and sold gaming desktops in the $1,500 to $3,000 range. Even if they didn't concentrate specifically on gaming there is a market for prosumer PCs ... iMac or Mac Pro style, but in the aforementioned price range.

That being said if Apple releases a iMac with a good gpu like the 5700 this year for a reasonable cost that is not more than $2,500 I will probably just bite the bullet and buy it.

 

[pldelisle]

I have not seen any proof of the iMac being thermally throttled over extended usage.

 

[iPadified]

How on earth did a tower and PC sneak into the thread of a redesigned iMac?

Apple sells 80% non upgradable laptops. The majority of users do not open the computer and upgrade it. A reality check here, we who hang out here are NOT average users. Average users configure from start, plug in the power cord and start using the computer.

Be honest, the reason for the people wanting the RAM upgrade option is to avoid Apples RAM upgrade prices. Same goes for SSD. So how many customers are left that actually need to customise a computer post purchase? 100.000/year? The business reason for providing an xMac is none. I do not think the MP breaks even but it is halo product so OK.

 

[scotttnz]

Apple could easily make a modular tower PC like the Mac Pro, but for normal consumers but they don't for some reason. They probably don't think there is a big market for that type of PC. I imagine like everyone has said they feel this need is served by the Mac Mini and the iMac. I think it is most served by the iMac, but what about people who want good cpu, gpu and upgradable memory but they want to use 2 to 3 monitors or they want 1 giant 49" super ultra wide? I want a powerful mac that isn't locked into the display and thermals that Apple does with the iMac. Unfortunately, the Mac Mini with it's small size, poor thermals and integrated graphics aren't enough for me. I can't in good conscious as a veteran PC builder buy a PC that runs at 90 to 100C at sustained load. Thought about eGPU, but why spend $300 extra dollars for an eGPU enclosure to run a GPU that is throttled by the bandwidth of thunderbolt 3 and Apple doesn't support in Bootcamp and won't support Nvidia GPUs.

It is weird that Apple has completely ignored the consumer gaming industry. PC gaming is actually been on the rise in the last few years compared to consoles. They could stand to make some good money if they worked on a way of emulating DirectX on MacOS and sold gaming desktops in the $1,500 to $3,000 range. Even if they didn't concentrate specifically on gaming there is a market for prosumer PCs ... iMac or Mac Pro style, but in the aforementioned price range.

That being said if Apple releases a iMac with a good gpu like the 5700 this year for a reasonable cost that is not more than $2,500 I will probably just bite the bullet and buy it.

I find myself in a similar position. I nearly bought an egpu last week because lockdown and some upcoming games has got me wanting to have a go at boot camp gaming, and at first glance supplementing my MacBook Pro with an egpu seemed like a logical way to do this. It was also appealing partly because I need a bit of a project to occupy myself with, but the more I looked into it, the more I realised that it is really a niche solution, which is not very well supported. Getting an egpu to work in both MacOS and Windows requires hacks and compromises, and that isn’t what I’m looking for. So I’ll wait and see what an iMac refresh brings.

 

[Nugget]

Be honest, the reason for the people wanting the RAM upgrade option is to avoid Apples RAM upgrade prices. Same goes for SSD. So how many customers are left that actually need to customise a computer post purchase? 100.000/year? The business reason for providing an xMac is none. I do not think the MP breaks even but it is halo product so OK.

Modular PCs have been particularly attractive for the past decade because CPU performance improvements have lagged so far behind every other relevant technology. Over on the PC side of things you can have a pretty decent gaming and general purpose computing experience with a six year old 4790 CPU and a current graphics card. That's a great value proposition for users -- upgrade only the parts that will benefit from upgrades. I can totally understand why Apple have little interest in catering to that type of user. Both because they'd be chilling new system sales, but also because they also want the ability to drive new technologies and retire old ones. A world with modular Xmacs is a world where Apple can't sell as many new computers. But it's also a world where Apple can't as easily kill off Thunderbolt 2 and move their entire user base to Thunderbolt 3.

I wish it weren't so, but I understand it.

 

[iPadified]

Modular PCs have been particularly attractive for the past decade because CPU performance improvements have lagged so far behind every other relevant technology. Over on the PC side of things you can have a pretty decent gaming and general purpose computing experience with a six year old 4790 CPU and a current graphics card. That's a great value proposition for users -- upgrade only the parts that will benefit from upgrades. I can totally understand why Apple have little interest in catering to that type of user. Both because they'd be chilling new system sales, but also because they also want the ability to drive new technologies and retire old ones. A world with modular Xmacs is a world where Apple can't sell as many new computers. But it's also a world where Apple can't as easily kill off Thunderbolt 2 and move their entire user base to Thunderbolt 3.

I wish it weren't so, but I understand it.

You have a point by I view it a little bit different as this is an iMac thread:

Modular PC has been popular from the day IBM PC was conceived and I agree that the GPU improvements has been a good example of why modularity was important. Disk drives came before that where rapidly increase in sizes was observed. Also in these days, most towers were upgraded. The modularity existed but was not used. The rise of laptops and less successful so AIO, Mac mini type of computers (MP 2013!) was a reaction towards this waste.

MacOS is not a strong platform for games, 3D software and many scientific softwares and therefore GPU upgrades are less of interest and their Mac lineup reflects this. Apple focus on video editing for its high power computing that can be GPU accelerated but video also relies on CPU, memory speed and SSD speed for fluent editing and hence nearly a new machine is required to have a state of the art experience. Current iMac and iMP are more than fine for vector editing, photo editing, music production in the vast majority of the cases and for office work, iMacs are overpowered but a chosen because of that great screen and tidy package.

At some point soon GPU improvements also reach a plateau as apparent by this thread as significant improvement for Vega 48 is difficult find. For each GPU performance increase, fewer and fewer will need it just like CPU improvement get more and more irrelevant for the majority of people. Hence, an xMac get less and less relevant every year. Start saving for the MP!

 

[ArmouredBear]

When I last bought a new 27" iMac (in 2010), the design was fresh and modern, the screen was top of class and the value for spec/screen quality was solid. However, it has slowly but surely fallen behind. To be once it once was, it needs a re-design and significant improvements to the Facetime cam (same resolution since 2011), screen and to sort out the cooling properly. I got lots of life from my iMacs but the GPU died in both and in the case of the 2009 model, I had the screen replaced a couple of years out of warranty (good service) but the same problem happened again as it was a cooling design flaw.

I'm now macless as my desktop and laptop are dead and I'm desperate to buy replacements that I can be happy with, that are good value, quality and futureproof.
C'mon Apple, don't just announce a speedbump, same design update.

 

[Abazigal]

If the MBA and MBP refreshes are any indicator, we will likely get the same iMac form factor with updated internals (ie: new processors, cheaper storage options, maybe some minor tweaks here and there?).

 

[Migranya]

If the MBA and MBP refreshes are any indicator, we will likely get the same iMac form factor with updated internals (ie: new processors, cheaper storage options, maybe some minor tweaks here and there?).

I hope you are wrong haha But I need an iMac and I'm going to buy it anyway. I'll be very happy if they put, in the high-end 2,600€ 27-inch model: 10-gen Intel processors, 1080p webcam, 16 of RAM, 512GB SSD and better graphics card at "start price".

 

[ArmouredBear]

If the MBA and MBP refreshes are any indicator, we will likely get the same iMac form factor with updated internals (ie: new processors, cheaper storage options, maybe some minor tweaks here and there?).

So, like every update in the last 8 years?

The MBA and MBP weren't as desperately in need of a real update as the iMac, I'm sure it will be as you say.

 

[Abazigal]

So, like every update in the last 8 years?

The MBA and MBP weren't as desperately in need of a real update as the iMac, I'm sure it will be as you say.

I read somewhere that 80% of Macs sold by Apple are laptops. Even their most popular Macs still sport the same form factor 4 years in a row, I don’t think it bodes well for their less popular desktop lineup.

Still, I am okay with the current all-in-one design of the iMac. I just look forward to the day when it will be financially feasible to get an iMac with all flash storage and not feel like I am paying through the nose for it.

 

[tomwilson]

If the MBA and MBP refreshes are any indicator, we will likely get the same iMac form factor with updated internals (ie: new processors, cheaper storage options, maybe some minor tweaks here and there?).

Maybe, but both of those are much newer designs than the iMac. MBA is like 1 year old and MBP since 2016.

iMac hasn't physically changed in appearance since 2012. And even that was basically just making the tapered sides so it ends thin.

 

[askunk]

Every mac which has ditched the HDD has gone through a major redesign. I would be very surprised to see an identical iMac with completely redesigned internals, after all these years.
[automerge]1588761664[/automerge]
Re the Comet Lake H, I don't see it remotely happening. It would be a downgrade from the current models, sporting desktop class CPUs. The iMac has been progressively leaving behind mobile parts as soon as lower TDP desktop parts were available. CPU first, then GPUs. Very hard to see Apple taking a U-turn with the next model.

 

[scotttnz]

Every mac which has ditched the HDD has gone through a major redesign. I would be very surprised to see an identical iMac with completely redesigned internals, after all these years.
[automerge]1588761664[/automerge]
Re the Comet Lake H, I don't see it remotely happening. It would be a downgrade from the current models, sporting desktop class CPUs. The iMac has been progressively leaving behind mobile parts as soon as lower TDP desktop parts were available. CPU first, then GPUs. Very hard to see Apple taking a U-turn with the next model.

Not every Mac. Other than being Space Gray the current Mac Mini looks exactly the same as it did in 2012. Or even 2010 apart from loosing the DVD slot.

 

[iPadified]

Smaller bezel and slightly smaller chin and there you go - more modern. The basic design is very good so some smaller changes are sufficient. It is much more interesting if we see a iMP cooling system in the "new" iMac.

 

[sublunar]

Jon Prosser says the iMac is ready to ship. It's just a question of timing.

If this is the case and CoinX was right as far back as March then the argument for a mild spec bump is there. The Mini was an easy decision (double the storage SSD sticks). The iMac is more complicated to get right but it would seem that Apple are happy to segment between 21.5" and 27" if we look at the MacBook Pro 13" as an example.

I'm leaning towards eliminating 4Gb RAM sticks from the supply chain by going with 16Gb across the board though.

Of course the Comet Lake S CPUs might have been ready all along and waiting for Intel to launch them formally

If the miniLED panels are definitely not ready then Apple may have decided to let existing stocks and BTO parts for the iMac run down before pulling the trigger.

 

[08kx250f]

I'm going to be really disappointed if there isn't a redesign. Just slim the thing up. Does tru tone exists on the latest imac?

 

[jseq]

It´s coming!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258004593784623106

 

[Dave245]

It´s coming!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258004593784623106

In that case i'm guessing it's not a redesign, i can't see Apple announcing a complete redesign of the iMac without some sort of event (online at the moment). If there is a redesign i'm guessing WWDC at the earliest.

 

[08kx250f]

In that case i'm guessing it's not a redesign, i can't see Apple announcing a complete redesign of the iMac without some sort of event (online at the moment). If there is a redesign i'm guessing WWDC at the earliest.

Maybe, maybe not. We're in strange times.

 

[NewUsername]

Jon Prosser says the iMac is ready to ship. It's just a question of timing.

If this is the case and CoinX was right as far back as March then the argument for a mild spec bump is there. The Mini was an easy decision (double the storage SSD sticks). The iMac is more complicated to get right but it would seem that Apple are happy to segment between 21.5" and 27" if we look at the MacBook Pro 13" as an example.

I'm leaning towards eliminating 4Gb RAM sticks from the supply chain by going with 16Gb across the board though.

Of course the Comet Lake S CPUs might have been ready all along and waiting for Intel to launch them formally

If the miniLED panels are definitely not ready then Apple may have decided to let existing stocks and BTO parts for the iMac run down before pulling the trigger.

Yes, but what with the T2 chip? It has already been in all other Macs for such a long time.

 

[gusping]

In that case i'm guessing it's not a redesign, i can't see Apple announcing a complete redesign of the iMac without some sort of event (online at the moment). If there is a redesign i'm guessing WWDC at the earliest.

I also get the feeling it's not a redesign, in which case count me out. It needs to adapt or die as far as I am concerned. It's desperately in need of a good shake up (slimmer bezels and maybe a thicker depth to allow for proper cooling).

It could well simply be a 10th gen CPU and SSD upgrade across the board. Can you imagine that after how long we've been waiting. I would laugh, and then cry for a few weeks.