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When do you expect an iMac redesign?

  • 4rd quarter 2019

    Votes: 34 4.1%
  • 1st quarter 2020

    Votes: 23 2.8%
  • 2nd quarter 2020

    Votes: 119 14.5%
  • 3rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 131 15.9%
  • 4rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 172 20.9%
  • 2021 or later

    Votes: 343 41.7%

  • Total voters
    822
  • Poll closed .

762999

Cancelled
Nov 9, 2012
891
509
Ports doesn't matter. Thunderbolt ports are universal, speedy, carries every single type of media into one cable, and charges. This is more than enough. For old things there are docks. This is not something I first check when buying a computer, it's the last one !

And oh, f*** touch screens. I have an iPad Pro for this. My laptop must be clean. I'm a software engineer. Don't talk to me about touchscreen. What's the point of having a P3 color calibrated, Retina resolution, a superb panel with fingerprints on it. Nope, not for me and not for 95% of professionals.

With minor exceptions, Apple computers are quality product. I prefer macOS and UNIX underneath it more than any other OS (and I tried a LOT). Costly, but reliable when taken care of (MacBook Pro 15 Late-2013 High end here is still my daily driver, even if I'm a software engineer in data science). I wouldn't hesitate to buy any new MacBook Pro now, even if it's costly. I know it will last for long.

Glossy touch screen is a mess but matte touch screen is perfectly fine. Touchscreen also mean that you can use a pen on it (for signature and other stuff). You have the right to prefer an iPad that cost more than a laptop + the cost of a laptop that cost more than a desktop to do this simple thing. I'm sure that many of that 95% of the people would prefer no dongles. They are solid and have plenty of design flaws (lookup the Louis Rossman videos on youtube). They do have a nice ecosystem that I like, but I don't like the current state of things right now.

I prefer to buy devices than I can clean (ie: fan) and update. But I'm still curious, maybe they will surprise us with someething better someday.
 

Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
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I agree, this will happen but I don't think I will buy another one.

The following config already cost : $5,408.42 (in Canada, including taxes). This is nothing but a joke. I know I know, you can buy the ram elsewhere, but it's also make a point that Apple laughs at everyone by overpricing everything they can.

27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display
  • 3.6GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
  • 32GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
  • Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
  • Magic Mouse 2

You have my sincere sympathies. $5408? And you get a low end gpu with that. If you want the mid range Vega 48 you have to unEarth another 400$ or so. So you'd be close to $6k. So I understand customers saying Apple is pricing them out.

Deary me. Joke pricing there. :/ I thought it was just me that was that had issues with Apple's wacko pricing.

As soon as Apple doubled the price of the Mac Pro and added a £1000...I said, 'I'm out.' So I'll be going dual Mac/PC from now on. No way I or many can access that price for a Mac tower or justify it. For £2500 (UK pricing...) I could have done it. (I could get a PC tower that will brutalise the Mac Pro entry model for that...) But they're beyond reality with a lot of their price to spec to product design these days.

...and doing the ridiculous £1k for the monitor stand thing. Pretty much sums the current Apple up.

I remember when you could get the G3 blue and white towers. Now. They were good deals.

Azrael.
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Yep :( It's sad. While the laptops are correctly priced versus the built and general software quality and performance, the Mac desktops are overpriced for what they have. For 5400$ CAD, I admit I could build a hell of a workstation with that. But you can save like 600$ by buying RAM from Crucial or Kingston.That drastically drop the price. +500$ for the 8 core CPU is also a joke. +585$ for a discontinued Vega GPU is also a joke. And then you get a 2 generation old GPU ... in a 4000$ CAD desktop.

Yeah. New money for old rope.

Just the +500 cpu and the +585 for the Vega. Here in the UK you can build a pre-built PC that will get you a 12 core Ryzon and a Radeon 5700XT for a bit more than that.

Azrael.
 
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pldelisle

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May 4, 2020
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But almost nobody needs a tower Mac Pro. The iMac and Mac Mini are there for all the rest. Why people are so focused on the Mac Pro price which is relatively correctly priced if you compare with other workstations of this caliber.
Mac Mini is a nice all around desktop. iMac offers more power on its top tier if needed and with a GPU. Mac Pro is a niche.

nobody needs a tower. What you were getting in a G3 tower as you said is now miniaturized in a Mac Mini.
 

Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
2,287
1,835
We gonna have to wait guys
But almost nobody needs a tower Mac Pro. The iMac and Mac Mini are there for all the rest. Why people are so focused on the Mac Pro price which is relatively correctly priced if you compare with other workstations of this caliber.
Mac Mini is a nice all around desktop. iMac offers more power on its top tier if needed. Mac Pro is a niche.

nobody needs a tower. What you were getting in a G3 tower as you said is now miniaturized in a Mac Mini.

They do. They need a Mac Pro. They need Macs are reasonable bang for buck.

iMac's are limited by the choice of specs Apple want to or can put in its design. Push them and their components fry.

Mac Mini. When you get to £1-2k upsell without a dGPU? 'Joke.'

I need a mid-tower for £1500 inc VAT with 8 core and a medium GPU aka 5700XT.

19 years and counting. It isn't going to happen. But it's what I need.

Plenty of PC towers are sold. They're hardly 'niche.' Niche is a relative term.

Macs are niche compared to iOS. Or PCs. Or Gaming Macs are 'niche.'

There's plenty of money to be made there. But Apple's success with the iPod and iPhone have twisted their focus.

All eyes on the iMac 'next.'

Azrael.
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I seriously don't care I can't upgrade my Mac.

And I still can open it to clean it. Such screwdrivers exist outside Apple's walls.

Well, it's a shame you can't. Apple makes them that way in their interests rather than those of their customers.

I think that is cynical.

Azrael.
 

pldelisle

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2020
2,248
1,506
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I understand your point. Having a Mac Pro-like tower with simple Core i5-7-9 and decent GPU still miss to Apple line up and yes, it's sad.

iMac's are limited by the choice of specs Apple want to or can put in its design. Push them and their components fry.

Eeeehmmm... No. I have never heard of a desktop iMac being "fried" after extended usage. My friend works in an Apple store, repairing everything Apple makes, and iMacs are the rarest thing that appears on its desk. And when it does, it's for changing a mechanical HDD, which is the only mobile piece in this. This would happen in any computers.

The biggest problem were the butterfly keyboards. That was a mess. The guy at Apple that created this ****** mechanism must be fired. He made Apple loose a ton of money. Otherwise, since like 2012-2013-ish, it's mostly physical damage that people bring their stuff for repair. Unless the keyboard, there is not any major, recurring, problem since the 2011 AMD GPUs.

Mac Mini. When you get to £1-2k upsell without a dGPU? 'Joke.'

Most people doesn't need a GPU. People buy the Mac mini for home usage on a budget. If you don't do a lot of photo/video/whatever, you don't need a GPU. Memory is upgradable, which is nice too.

I need a mid-tower for £1500 inc VAT with 8 core and a medium GPU aka 5700XT.

I think we are going to find this in the next iMac. No, it won't be 1500 euros. But you don't get a 27 inch P3 calibrated 5K displays in a 1500 euros setup. Be realistic.


Plenty of PC towers are sold. They're hardly 'niche.' Niche is a relative term.

PC towers are for geeks, gamers. People who work with their computer don't care about that. They are going to buy a Lenovo/Dell desktop or simply a laptop. Very few people cares about what's inside a computer, literally.


Well, it's a shame you can't. Apple makes them that way in their interests rather than those of their customers.

I think that is cynical.

Not at all. I bought my MBP 15 late-2013 in April 2014. I chose it with 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, and 2.4 GHz Core i7. And all that still suffice these days. Why ? Because I chose a computer that fits my need, and my need barely evolved in the last 6 years.
BUT, during those 6 years, I carried a lot my laptop. Every day. I did a part of my college, university and my master with it. I saved in weight all these days because it doesn't have "upgradable" RAM. It's thinner, less heavier, better adapted to me because of that. Did I ever thought about upgrading it ? No ! Never ! I configured it with what I needed ! Yes, today I would pick one with 32 GB of RAM, because I know that in a couple of years it's going to be much needed. That's it !
 
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Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
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'Eeeeeerrmmmmm.' Maybe you didn't hear of it because it never happened to you. :p But my iMac gpu fried with little provocation. Couldn't hack an old game from 2004. :p The only time I pushed it 'moderately' beyond Pages use in its 7.3 years life time.

People do care about their use case. It may not match yours or mine. Apple have become increasingly rigid in their products and their upsell. Based on profit not on customers. They're marketing. Not product guys.

PC towers. In your opinion. They are widely used for creative work stations, YouTube videos, gaming, streaming...pick any use case. Hardly just for geeks.

£1500 for an Apple tower. That's the example I used. It's unlikely though. And sure, let's be 'realistic.' You can get a PC tower for £1300 with a 5700XT and 12 core Ryzen that will smash the iMac or Mac Pro entry model. So I gave Apple's old 'bit extra' room for error. As they used to sell said G3 tower and G4 Towers and even G5 towers for 'said' give or take.

As for the iMacs they've sat on those screen sizes for years. The rest of the computer they offer is of mediocre value. So I think they should be cheaper. The put out a nominal update last year. The modest minimum.

It's still a shame that most Mac users can't maintain their computers without wrestling with designed obselete.

Most people do need a gpu. It powers the screen, drives the interface, games, creativity etc. The Mac Mini has junk iG in it. If YouTube is anything to do by more and more people are calling upon GPU power for the reasons outlined. We've always needed graphics power from the C64 to the Amiga to the Mac to the modern consoles which show gpu power is mainstream. And the Ps5 will only sell or the XBox if they DO show that increasing GPU power. So people do need it. Even if they don't know it. Or why move on with any tech'? Just because Apple is lame with their gpus and reaming the customer with the upsell gpus. You can't get a decent, modern high end gpu from Apple for less than £6k.

Reality warping.

Hardly a badge of honour for the 'creative' platform of choice. With price tag that isn't matched by the substance of that marketing message. That's the kind of thinking that kept Intel on 4 cores for years whilst they and Apple between them premiumed the pricing of their old rope until AMD came into kick Intel's butter with cores, efficiency and value. And Apple still can't pass that value onto customers? It's not like Ryzen was just introduced in the last few months. Which tells me more about Apple's motivations.

During the last 6 years, Apple's desktops have become more user hostile and lazy in their update schedule.

*shrugs. It is what it is.

Azrael.
 
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pldelisle

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May 4, 2020
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If you are not happy, just get out of here. Nobody forces you to like Apple. I like them, I like the spirit of this company and the products they make. Nobody forces you to do so.

But I think you are way too pessimist. Yes, the line up is old. But did Intel or AMD released something ? Intel *JUST* released its new CPU. NAVI 10 XT was released after March 2019 update, and the rest of AMD line up finished to be released on January this year. Let them the time to build something new ?‍♂️ .

And no, most people don't need a GPU. Most people buy this Mac Mini for web surfing, programming, emails, social networks, basic things. Even music creation, which do not require any GPU. Apple has to do with Intel SKUs. The Mac mini can power 3 4K screens, that's pretty good. Pretty sure that if Intel would make full power desktop CPUs with Iris Plus graphics they would pick them up.

And once again, no. Apple is committed too much with Intel. I really doubt they can shift to AMD when ARM is on the table.
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
12,526
11,543
Seattle, WA
We gonna have to wait guys

I don't see Apple needing to wait until WWDC to announce new consumer iMacs. They've already announced new Mac portables via press release so they can do the same with the iMacs.

MCK says the 2020 iMac Pro won't release until Fall so if it is the only iMac getting a miniLED display, they can announce it at WWDC (perhaps along with a 16" MBP refresh with miniLED and 10th Generation CPUs).
 

Freida

Suspended
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
The delay is even for basic thing such as RAM so I doubt it has anything to do with refresh and more to do with the current situation that complicates things.

I'd love new 27" (ideally 30+) iMac but I feel we might not see it before WWDC. If we do then its not going to be as substantial as rumoured and we will just get ****** spec bump and nothing else.


Jon Prosser appears to have said pretty much the same. The 27" iMac situation remains 3-4 weeks away in the US (21.5" is 6-8 days, iMac Pro is 2-3 Weeks). In the UK (where dates are more precise): iMac Pro is slipping (May 13-14 for base config, May 27-Jun 2 for BTO), as is iMac 27" (June 2 to June 9), while the 21.5" iMac BTO is showing May 19-21.

It's looking more like the 21.5" is getting the light touch refresh like the Mac mini and 15w MacBook Pro.

The 27" is the one to look at - it's been solidly BTO June for a few days now, while the iMac Pro is hard to call, slipping into late May

I would say we're looking at a press release refresh just before WWDC or just after.
 
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Manfredi

macrumors member
Apr 20, 2020
63
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The delay is even for basic thing such as RAM so I doubt it has anything to do with refresh and more to do with the current situation that complicates things.

I'd love new 27" (ideally 30+) iMac but I feel we might not see it before WWDC. If we do then its not going to be as substantial as rumoured and we will just get ****** spec bump and nothing else.
unfortunately i think you're right..... still more than one month to WWDC and i think that apple will introduce new iMac via press release and this menas that (for sure) they will have same design as previous.... :( this would be very very sad and in this case i gonna change my purcheases... :(
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I don't see Apple needing to wait until WWDC to announce new consumer iMacs. They've already announced new Mac portables via press release so they can do the same with the iMacs.

MCK says the 2020 iMac Pro won't release until Fall so if it is the only iMac getting a miniLED display, they can announce it at WWDC (perhaps along with a 16" MBP refresh with miniLED and 10th Generation CPUs).
they will NEVER NEVER NEVER introduce miniLed this year.... (unofrunately)
let's bet on it!? ;)
 
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gusping

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Mar 12, 2012
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'Eeeeeerrmmmmm.' Maybe you didn't hear of it because it never happened to you. :p But my iMac gpu fried with little provocation. Couldn't hack an old game from 2004. :p The only time I pushed it 'moderately' beyond Pages use in its 7.3 years life time.

People do care about their use case. It may not match yours or mine. Apple have become increasingly rigid in their products and their upsell. Based on profit not on customers. They're marketing. Not product guys.

PC towers. In your opinion. They are widely used for creative work stations, YouTube videos, gaming, streaming...pick any use case. Hardly just for geeks.

£1500 for an Apple tower. That's the example I used. It's unlikely though. And sure, let's be 'realistic.' You can get a PC tower for £1300 with a 5700XT and 12 core Ryzen that will smash the iMac or Mac Pro entry model. So I gave Apple's old 'bit extra' room for error. As they used to sell said G3 tower and G4 Towers and even G5 towers for 'said' give or take.

As for the iMacs they've sat on those screen sizes for years. The rest of the computer they offer is of mediocre value. So I think they should be cheaper. The put out a nominal update last year. The modest minimum.

It's still a shame that most Mac users can't maintain their computers without wrestling with designed obselete.

Most people do need a gpu. It powers the screen, drives the interface, games, creativity etc. The Mac Mini has junk iG in it. If YouTube is anything to do by more and more people are calling upon GPU power for the reasons outlined. We've always needed graphics power from the C64 to the Amiga to the Mac to the modern consoles which show gpu power is mainstream. And the Ps5 will only sell or the XBox if they DO show that increasing GPU power. So people do need it. Even if they don't know it. Or why move on with any tech'? Just because Apple is lame with their gpus and reaming the customer with the upsell gpus. You can't get a decent, modern high end gpu from Apple for less than £6k.

Reality warping.

Hardly a badge of honour for the 'creative' platform of choice. With price tag that isn't matched by the substance of that marketing message. That's the kind of thinking that kept Intel on 4 cores for years whilst they and Apple between them premiumed the pricing of their old rope until AMD came into kick Intel's butter with cores, efficiency and value. And Apple still can't pass that value onto customers? It's not like Ryzen was just introduced in the last few months. Which tells me more about Apple's motivations.

During the last 6 years, Apple's desktops have become more user hostile and lazy in their update schedule.

*shrugs. It is what it is.

Azrael.
I agree with everything you say, in particular:
1) The iMac has a great screen, but that's where it ends for the most part. The CPU is ok, but runs at a million degrees under a light tickle. The GPUs are meh. Lets not mention the Fusion drive. And... it needs a HUGE redesign.
2) On the GPU more generally, even a low-end one makes things easier. I have a 2018 Mac mini. A full on eGPU is a waste of money on me, just to drive multiple hi-res monitors, but the iGPU barely does the job.

Apple don't really make a Mac for me. A good iMac (with the above items fixed) or a mid-range tower (£2-3k) would be perfect. Given the ******** that is now Apple software, especially Catalina, I tempted more than ever to build a PC (Ryzen 3700X and 5700XT). A bloody decent machine for £1300 or so. I can't even say I want to use a Mac for the OS, because I bet I'd have less headaches with Windows 10, and that's saying something....
 
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pldelisle

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May 4, 2020
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On the GPU more generally, even a low-end one makes things easier. I have a 2018 Mac mini. A full on eGPU is a waste of money on me, just to drive multiple hi-res monitors, but the iGPU barely does the job.

Why do you say it barely does the job ? How do you justify ?

I'd have less headaches with Windows 10, and that's saying something...

Ahah let me doubt.
 

gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
2,020
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Why do you say it barely does the job ? How do you justify ?



Ahah let me doubt.
Two 4k screens and a bit of scaling = lag at times on the Mac mini. Simple as that. It's a widespread issue. 95% of the time it's not a huge problem to me, but a low-end dGPU would help greatly. I know it's not as simple as that (complete chases redesign etc), but it would be nice.

I'm only half joking on the latter point, haha. I'm debating building a gaming PC anyway. We shall see....
 
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Voyageur

macrumors 6502
Mar 22, 2019
262
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I agree with everything you say, in particular:
1) The iMac has a great screen, but that's where it ends for the most part. The CPU is ok, but runs at a million degrees under a light tickle. The GPUs are meh. Lets not mention the Fusion drive. And... it needs a HUGE redesign.
The display is good, but no more. to be honest, the last time a fundamental change was 6 years ago + if I'm not mistaken 1-2 small improvements in the quality of the. I repeat, the display is still good, but not for an advanced company that installs the best hardware in their computers. with GPU of average lousiness they always had trouble, but the display? The display should have already received dramatic improvements for a long time, OR in this way the cost of the current ones should drastically decrease.
 
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sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
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I don't see Apple needing to wait until WWDC to announce new consumer iMacs. They've already announced new Mac portables via press release so they can do the same with the iMacs.

MCK says the 2020 iMac Pro won't release until Fall so if it is the only iMac getting a miniLED display, they can announce it at WWDC (perhaps along with a 16" MBP refresh with miniLED and 10th Generation CPUs).


£1500 for an Apple tower. That's the example I used. It's unlikely though. And sure, let's be 'realistic.' You can get a PC tower for £1300 with a 5700XT and 12 core Ryzen that will smash the iMac or Mac Pro entry model. So I gave Apple's old 'bit extra' room for error. As they used to sell said G3 tower and G4 Towers and even G5 towers for 'said' give or take.

A 5700XT 8Gb card costs between £400-600. A 12 core, 24 thread Ryzen 3900X costs £440 (not my choice you you did say 12 core, I assume you're not going after a Threadripper). I wouldn't spend under £100 on a PSU which I believe to be one of the most important parts of the system, a good motherboard and 16Gb of quality RAM (because we've picked Ryzen we can't pick cheap rubbish RAM) is probably going to be £250. Samsung 970 Pro 1Tb NVME M2 (not SATA 3 rubbish) is about £300. So that's just about reached your £1300 limit.

But crucially, I'm not going to cheap out on a case because a £50 rattly thing isn't ever going to match a decent Mac for build quality. I'm going to select a Fractal Design case costing about £150 because I like my quiet cases. And 'll probably do away with the stock cooler because I want a name brand heatsink on the CPU for silent running for that's another 50 quid (at the very least, for a Noctua).

Oh yes, I haven't put Windows 10 Pro on it yet, so that's an extra £100. I'll pass on the garish RGB, onboard sound is probably good enough for most people but I had a top class Soundblaster in my last PC and my sound card is now external.

Total price? Over £2.1k. And I have to build it myself. If were inclined to go to town silencing my PC more than I already have I could easily spend a lot more.

And yes, this will cane the average Mac even in my chosen price bracket. But it's not a Mac.

In all my years of building PCs and upgrading Macs, the main thing I did with the Macs was put hard drives into the internal drive bays and maybe upgrade the RAM later when I could afford it and where there were free slots. Occasionally I bought PCI expansion to add USB2 ports to a G4. The only thing I ever did to my G5 was fill it with hard drives and RAM so the slots in there generally went to waste.

Same story with the PCs, except I added sound cards too but nowadays I have an external USB sound cards which I have transferred between various Macs and PCs.

My point is, once the RAM was bought and drive bays filled I really didn't tinker with the insides of my machines. What I really appreciated with the PCs was the ability to replace standard parts when they failed. Luckily, this was a rare event. I had one power supply go on me in a personal PC - hence my latter-day preference for name brand quality PSUs. Otherwise I never really tinkered.

I did like the idea of being able to clean the dust filters on the PC and keep the inside clean and running efficiently. More on this later.

So a modern Mac mini probably ought to be up my street, right? I could spend 20 minutes upgrading a Mini to 64Gb and call it a day.

I'll grumble about having to put my external storage into (expensive) NAS drives and not have it directly connected any more (I will laud the flexibility offered by the NAS drives to have decentralised storage available though.)

I don't like the idea of spending hundreds of quid on an eGPU only for the experience to be sub-par by many accounts. While I do edit video I don't think it's worth the money it would cost to expand a Mini with an eGPU even if I could - theoretically - upgrade the GPU with an AMD card off the Apple support page.

Essentially, most users who buy a desktop PC aren't really going to fill their PCI slots with anything other than a graphics card. If I could source a silent and vibration free PC case with tons of drive bays I've happily unretire some of my old hard drives for use as cheap PC storage.

Back on topic with the iMacs though, with their on board GPU, excellent screens, and decent storage options. The 27" currently (see what I did there? :)) has upgradable RAM which is nice. What stops me from getting it is the prospect of not being able to easily clean the insides which get dusty.

I'm never going to play games on a Mac though, that's what a PC or games console would be bought for. So I can understand why the iGPU would be enough for most people using their Mac for the most basic of stuff. When I'm just browsing Safari or doing some non video editing work the iGPU is just fine on a couple of 1440p screens. I appreciate that daily driving higher res panels could mean a bit of lag.

And a dGPU will speed up rendering on Final Cut Pro - no complaints there. But I'm hardly going to spend hundreds on an eGPU to enable that. I'd rather buy an iMac if it became an issue, but I'm now thinking about iPads and ARM, especially with Apple possibly porting that software over to iOS.
 

gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
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A 5700XT 8Gb card costs between £400-600. A 12 core, 24 thread Ryzen 3900X costs £440 (not my choice you you did say 12 core, I assume you're not going after a Threadripper). I wouldn't spend under £100 on a PSU which I believe to be one of the most important parts of the system, a good motherboard and 16Gb of quality RAM (because we've picked Ryzen we can't pick cheap rubbish RAM) is probably going to be £250. Samsung 970 Pro 1Tb NVME M2 (not SATA 3 rubbish) is about £300. So that's just about reached your £1300 limit.
I can't help myself, but £250 for 16GB of low-end RAM (Apple always uses ****, low speed RAM). This wouldn't change when it came to Ryzen. £120 is fine for 3200Mhz.

Side question, do Apple just buy the GPU PCB, and then wedge it in (poorly) to the iMac?
 
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