Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[deconstruct60]

It is very interesting that by adding the T2 chip they did a complete (?) redesign of the internals. If this is the last intel iMac, why bother with so much effort and resources? Is there any chance that we are going to have more intel iMacs in the future? even rarely?

With the iMac Pro already on T2 how much effort is required here? Apple also already has "in the bag completed" Mac Mini T2 , and Mac Pro T2. The rest of the entire desktop line up was already on T2. Where is the "Moonshot, rocket science, Buck Rogers" project here ? ( the Pro 5300 , 5500 , 5700 have been used in other Macs at different clocks to so no "bleeding edge" GPU driver work here either. ) Yes, there is some work to do here (different socket , different PCH, hodge-podge T2 NAND layout ). However, it really shouldn't be that complicated though that they hadn't done previously on other systems. .

The board layout is a bit different. There are fewer TB controllers to deal with. They can pilfer the 1 vs 10 Gb/E solution from the Mac Mini. The camera is off the iMac Pro; a camera from practically the same case. The updated SD Card reader was going to be show stopper problem?

This design should have be almost done last June-July ( in 2019 ). Pretty good chance Apple has just sat on it for more than several months. Even more so if they know they won't have a large scale iMac class Apple Silicon SoC to go to in most of 2021. (i.e,, the 21-24" iMac will use a different SoC than the 27" ). In that context, they would have even bigger motivation to 'slow roll' this as they have to fill in a gap.

If Intel and/or AMD delivered the binned parts a bit later and there were hiccups due to the pandemic ... the slide to this point isn't very surprising at all.

 

[Whiteman007]

Question everyone:

when I get this new iMac is it a good idea to pop the RAM in first or set everything up, shutdown, then install RAM?

Thanks!

I’m going to install ram first but I don’t know if I should do what you said first

 

[deconstruct60]

Update on the SSD situation: per reports from people with access to the official Apple Repair Manuals, the 2020 iMac uses socketed SSDs with proprietary connectors (like the iMac Pro and Mac Pro do).

So looks like reports of the SSDs being soldered on were incorrect.

Well a bit of "worst" of both.... It is a hodge podge of which sub configuration you choose.

New 27-Inch iMac's Storage Affixed to Logic Board, 4TB and 8TB Configurations Have Expansion Connector

Following a report from German blog iFun.de that claimed the new 27-inch iMac's flash storage is soldered to the logic board, MacRumors has...

www.macrumors.com

It is unless choose configuration X and Y then it isn't . ( or worse than a mix of both. )

 

[DrRadon]

Sure you can put in RAM. It's there or it's not.

 

[sco]

I‘m going to boot the machine and run through the initial setup and then run a benchmark or two to stress the machine before upgrading the RAM to check the machine is OK as supplied. That way if there’s any issues I know it’s most likely the new RAM. But nothing wrong with installing it first — just a couple of extra steps to troubleshoot if there is an issue.

 

[henry72]

Another great review

 

[Freida]

I think you are wrong. Apple will be the king in few years. Intel is done!
AS will demolish anything on the market as no one will be able to compete with such a complete eco system.
If you build your hardware + software you always have advantage. Apple showed it with iOS devices - still no one can beat that after all these years. Same will be with AS.
Buy bye Intel, you sucked and you crippled innovation for us.
Sorry but not sorry

Apple doesn't have 2 Trillion dollars. Apple stockholders have $1-2T. None of that directly funds R&D at all. Zip. nada. nothing.

Apple also in part has lots of money because they don't do "everything". The notion that they are going to try to go blow for blow with Intel across Intels whole line up is loopy. In part that is where AMD made their chance. They stopped trying to go blow-for-blow across the whole line up. Even now where they have more cash ttey still are not.

Apple doesn't "have to win" because their Scrooge McDuck money pit is deeper. It is pretty doubtful Apple is going to charge head first into the zone where Intel and AMD are competing heaviest. More likely they'll do a 'good enough' Mac Pro / iMac Pro SoC for the largest systems relative to the current Mac Pro. Better Mac Pro as oppose to "king of the world" system. Apple is very probably going to throw as sizable transistor budget at doing Mac specific things whereas Intel and AMD are not. Similarly the packaging is likely going to be smaller and cheaper ( one reason Apple has more money is that they spend less and keep more of the margin. ) That is a dual edged sword. It will be a better contemporary Mac, but probably not a better "King of the world" system. That is OK because it will be a Mac.

 

[craigrusse11]

 

[Patchwork]

So no big changes in internal design with only one fan, so will have similar thermal issues to previous iMacs. Also the SSD isn’t removable which isn’t great.

 

[filmak]

With the iMac Pro already on T2 how much effort is required here? Apple also already has "in the bag completed" Mac Mini T2 , and Mac Pro T2. The rest of the entire desktop line up was already on T2. Where is the "Moonshot, rocket science, Buck Rogers" project here ? ( the Pro 5300 , 5500 , 5700 have been used in other Macs at different clocks to so no "bleeding edge" GPU driver work here either. ) Yes, there is some work to do here (different socket , different PCH, hodge-podge T2 NAND layout ). However, it really shouldn't be that complicated though that they hadn't done previously on other systems. .

The board layout is a bit different. There are fewer TB controllers to deal with. They can pilfer the 1 vs 10 Gb/E solution from the Mac Mini. The camera is off the iMac Pro; a camera from practically the same case. The updated SD Card reader was going to be show stopper problem?

This design should have be almost done last June-July ( in 2019 ). Pretty good chance Apple has just sat on it for more than several months. Even more so if they know they won't have a large scale iMac class Apple Silicon SoC to go to in most of 2021. (i.e,, the 21-24" iMac will use a different SoC than the 27" ). In that context, they would have even bigger motivation to 'slow roll' this as they have to fill in a gap.

If Intel and/or AMD delivered the binned parts a bit later and there were hiccups due to the pandemic ... the slide to this point isn't very surprising at all.

These are all fine, the parts and knowledge were already present, no surprises or anything new here, no bleeding edge tech for sure.
But, think about it, Tx is present for how many years? about 4? Since then we had the 2017 and 2019 iMacs with no Tx chip inside, only the iMac Pro got it which had a new design internally because of the components and the cooling system used.
Fusion drives may be a reason, but they could also just leave an entry model with it, just like now.
They delayed 4 years to fix the MBP keyboards, they forgot the Mac Pro for 6 years, the mac mini for many years too...

So, if the iMac is a dying product, because of the AS coming, why bother after all these years? Why offer a matt display option?
In general they paid too much attention than usual for this one, it is a bit strange...

It could also be a sign that the iMac Pro is dead for good.

 

[fireguy286]

I think you are wrong. Apple will be the king in few years. Intel is done!
AS will demolish anything on the market as no one will be able to compete with such a complete eco system.
If you build your hardware + software you always have advantage. Apple showed it with iOS devices - still no one can beat that after all these years. Same will be with AS.
Buy bye Intel, you sucked and you crippled innovation for us.
Sorry but not sorry

I know deep super Apple folks feel superior by everything they do and AS will be great but AS is not the death of Intel. Sorry. It wasn’t the death of Qualcomm or other ARM processors either. Mac is 6% of computing and less than 5% of Intel’s revenue. Perhaps you should look at where they make they money - most of it in areas Apple will never ever be.

They have challenges and have screwed up their roadmap but done? Get a grip.

Apple doesn't have 2 Trillion dollars. Apple stockholders have $1-2T. None of that directly funds R&D at all. Zip. nada. nothing.

Apple also in part has lots of money because they don't do "everything". The notion that they are going to try to go blow for blow with Intel across Intels whole line up is loopy. In part that is where AMD made their chance. They stopped trying to go blow-for-blow across the whole line up. Even now where they have more cash ttey still are not.

Apple doesn't "have to win" because their Scrooge McDuck money pit is deeper. It is pretty doubtful Apple is going to charge head first into the zone where Intel and AMD are competing heaviest. More likely they'll do a 'good enough' Mac Pro / iMac Pro SoC for the largest systems relative to the current Mac Pro. Better Mac Pro as oppose to "king of the world" system. Apple is very probably going to throw as sizable transistor budget at doing Mac specific things whereas Intel and AMD are not. Similarly the packaging is likely going to be smaller and cheaper ( one reason Apple has more money is that they spend less and keep more of the margin. ) That is a dual edged sword. It will be a better contemporary Mac, but probably not a better "King of the world" system. That is OK because it will be a Mac.

careful now you’ll ruffle feathers in here with actual logic and analysis of Apple philosophy and not fanboi silliness. (But louder for the people in the back. )

 

[sco]

So no big changes in internal design with only one fan, so will have similar thermal issues to previous iMacs. Also the SSD isn’t removable which isn’t great.

But room there for a mod... how long until someone drills a lot of holes and puts in a bigger fan???

 

[The_Lord_of_Apple]

So no big changes in internal design with only one fan, so will have similar thermal issues to previous iMacs. Also the SSD isn’t removable which isn’t great.

Hang on to your horses!! Wait a couple of weeks for some reviews from a couple of guys on this thread. I know @Azrael9 won't hold back if he finds thermal issues. He is a massive apple fan but he does give both sides to the story. Also waiting for Max Yuryev's review too.

 

[Homy]

iMac 2020 Reviews And Benchmarks - The Last Intel iMac

iMac 3.8 8-core 5500XT

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Kjs100]

"There should be some big changes on the inside".

Yes there should. 😆

 

[Kjs100]

I know deep super Apple folks feel superior by everything they do and AS will be great but AS is not the death of Intel. Sorry. It wasn’t the death of Qualcomm or other ARM processors either. Mac is 6% of computing and less than 5% of Intel’s revenue. Perhaps you should look at where they make they money - most of it in areas Apple will never ever be.

They have challenges and have screwed up their roadmap but done? Get a grip.




careful now you’ll ruffle feathers in here with actual logic and analysis of Apple philosophy and not fanboi silliness. (But louder for the people in the back. )

Yes all this intel is dead, buried etc is wearing thin. And this is from people with intel devices on their desks and still buying them. So much for gratitude. Intel was the best available option. Could Apple have done better? Maybe, but they haven't. They will likely do in the future, but people aren't working in the future.

 

[DrRadon]

Another great review

Bah golly she is the sweetest.
BUT as soon as she said Apple gave her a advance testing dealio i knew the review was over.

 

[DrRadon]

There is just a crazy amount of open space and it is even more apparent now with no SSD and SATA area.

 

[elicash]

There is just a crazy amount of open space and it is even more apparent now with no SSD and SATA area.

Novice question: does the lower effective thermal mass/heat production from the absent drives in there combined with the extra space have scope to make the existing fan more effective, and also allow the aluminium shell to transfer more heat out of there? Some early reviews have noted less fan activity.

 

[John90976]

Moved up from the 19th to the 14th to now the 13th, honestly feel like it could get here before that. I was looking forward to the BTO model potentially being assembled in Cork, Ireland. I heard a while ago that the BTO models of some category were assembled there, I guess this isn't it.

 

[sco]

Novice question: does the lower effective thermal mass/heat production from the absent drives in there combined with the extra space have scope to make the existing fan more effective, and also allow the aluminium shell to transfer more heat out of there? Some early reviews have noted less fan activity.

I don't think it will help much. Air is being sucked from the bottom - over the boards to the fan then it looks like it is channelled out via the heatsinks then out the exhaust port above the RAM door. Feeling the back of my 2017 iMac the heat in the case is centred around the exhaust port - not much to be felt away from that so I don't think the case will be radiating much. But I'm no expert.

 

[yellow_lupine]

Anybody there who works with an 2019 i9 iMac in audio production and could tell us how is the fan noise at high CPU usage? My only tested device in this regard is an i9 MacBook Pro 15" whose fans screams for sustained time during music editing... very annoying.

 

[wave84]

Warning: This is gonna be a long rant.

Wow... so they actually removed the HDD and simply left a gigantic hole there. Would it have killed them to use the iMac Pro chassis for this last iteration? How much could it have cost them? To have that technology at hand and simply decide not to use it, and recycle the same old cooling design, is so... cynical. It's consumer hostile.

For me, this decision is the apogee of a very long list of weird, nonsensical choices and design decisions made by the mac divison at Apple since roughly 2013. And you can't blame Intel for all of them.

For instance, both me and my wife were huge fans of the original, super popular Air from its 2011 days. Back then, Apple had managed to build the perfect computer. Super light, reasonably fast, versatile, with a nice selection of ports, a great battery, great screen, it had everything for its time. It was so good that I used it as my main computer for more than 3 years, including gaming (WoW). All they had to do was update and improve it. And that's where it began: they started to neglect it. Kept the same bezels, same screen for so many years until it started to feel old. At one point (about 2015 I think) they also forgoed the yearly updates and just kept it around, with old CPUs and everything. The thing was so popular, people were still buying them, even with such old tech.

ALL they had to do is replace the screen with a nice, bezeless (probably 14inch), retina display and replace the old Thunderbolt 2 port with a 3. That's it. And it would have been the most popular computer even today, in 2020. Not Apple, though. Instead... they gave us the Macbook. Which we all know how it turned out. Too small, weird keyboard, bad port selection, slow... it wasn't a proper replacement, if any.

And then they when they finally remade the Air... it was also compromised as hell. Bad keyboard, slower CPUs, bad port selection, and on top of it all noisy like a jet. Even today, after all the "fixes", the Air is still not a worthy successor to the legendary old Air. It uses slower, Y series CPUs and it's far noisier, because apparently heatpipes should be reserved for "Pro" computers only

The 2013 Mac Pro was also a kind of a trainwreck. Nicely designed, but they left it without updates for oh so many years. Then the 2020 Mac Pro came, but at a price point few could afford.

I could go on and on, but I think I made my point. Every computer Apple makes these days seems to be some sort of weird compromise. With all the products they make, it's like they tease you but they want you to suffer.

Back to our subject, where does that leave us? You can get the new iMac, with bad cooling and new tech, or the iMac Pro, with nice cooling but 3 year old components - at the same price, of course. Which, in my country, is exactly 6356 US dollars, and that's because it's discounted a bit. Worth it for a Vega 56?

 

[anthony13]

Order update: my BTO now estimated for Monday!

 

[Whiteman007]

Order update: my BTO now estimated for Monday!

wow nice what one you order?

my 10 core 5700 GT has an updated delivery to thursday