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When do you expect an iMac redesign?

  • 4rd quarter 2019

    Votes: 34 4.1%
  • 1st quarter 2020

    Votes: 23 2.8%
  • 2nd quarter 2020

    Votes: 119 14.5%
  • 3rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 131 15.9%
  • 4rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 172 20.9%
  • 2021 or later

    Votes: 343 41.7%

  • Total voters
    822
  • Poll closed .

Freida

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Oct 22, 2010
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Yes it is not good enough. You can't just cherry pick one thing that is good and make a case.

We all know that the GPU is the weak factor here. How weak? That is remain to be seen.
But if it has under 3 TFlops and RDNA has 4x more and RDNA2 even more than that then its fair to call it - not good enough.

In the presentation, Apple focused on the CPU comparision and called it the fastest CPU. Its all good.
However, when it came to GPU, they only compared it to integrated graphics. So, that told us that they are not ready (with this chip) to even play with the big boys (AMD & Nvidia).

So, as this was for low end computers it kinda makes sense. There has to be another chip (lets call it M1 PRO) that will tackle this important factor also. It may be around march event or we will have to wait for WWDC. Either way, it is simply not good enough to have either of those machines to replace your 2020 iMac with Radeon 5700XT.

Its impressive for the iToys notebooks though but not for the rest. So lets wait and see when next 6-9 months will bring :)



Editing 8K Prores Raw is not good enough?
 

Freida

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Oct 22, 2010
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I agree with Fireguy286. Introducing numbers to M1 is just too confusing. Just looking at the options you've listed and my head already hurts. There will be distinction but it will be worded I assume and it will be simple.

So either M1X or M1 Pro or M1 Power or anything like this. I think X makes the most sense as they will keep the same with iPad and it will just be simple.

M (the chip) 1,2,3,4,5,6.....etc. (the generation) + any naming (to distinct between lite and pro version of that chip)

ie.

A14 and A14X

Thats what I think Apple will do. Keep it simple

The iPad store pages don’t list the number of cores in the specs, but the new AS Macs do. I think it likely Apple will focus on the number of cores to differentiate the higher spec models rather than clock speed (which isn’t mentioned).

It is also interesting that they list the counts for 3 types of core: CPU, GPU, Neural Engine. I think they might be upping the counts for all three.

My guess is we will end up with the current chip named something like M1-32 (because of 8 CPU, 8 GPU, 16 NE cores) when there are more variants released, with higher models as such as M1-48, M1-64 and M1-128.
 

Moonjumper

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2009
2,746
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Lincoln, UK
I agree with Fireguy286. Introducing numbers to M1 is just too confusing. Just looking at the options you've listed and my head already hurts. There will be distinction but it will be worded I assume and it will be simple.

So either M1X or M1 Pro or M1 Power or anything like this. I think X makes the most sense as they will keep the same with iPad and it will just be simple.

M (the chip) 1,2,3,4,5,6.....etc. (the generation) + any naming (to distinct between lite and pro version of that chip)

ie.

A14 and A14X

Thats what I think Apple will do. Keep it simple
Naming can be very confusing. Which is better in your example, Pro or Power?

M1 and M1X might be OK, even M1Z if there is a third family, and would follow their iPhone and iPad naming convention. But they have already shown signs of treating Mac differently by listing the number of cores in specs, and what happens if there are more than three levels? For Intel they have had i3, i5, i7, i9, and Xeon processors, some of those replicated across desktop and laptop versions, and different levels within i5 especially. I believe there will be fewer levels on Apple Silicon, but it could easily be more than three. For example, we already have low end. There is likely to be a higher end laptop level, a desktop level for iMac, and another for the Mac Pro, maybe even options within those. The one thing that seems certain is there is a need for a bigger performance differential between the top end and low end on Mac than iPhone or iPad. M1, M1W, M1X, M1Y, M1Z doesn't work.

Processor generation followed by core count is more flexible, and both have higher numbers as better. I'm not saying it will happen, but I can see why it would.
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
12,528
11,544
Seattle, WA
Talking about a redesign: all three new products with M1 soc didn't get a external redesign...

I'm afraid that the first M1(x) iMac won't get a redesign either...

That we did not get an iMac announcement makes me believe that the ~24-inch model will have a new form factor and probably a more powerful SoC (M1X / M2) with more cores (CPU and GPU), more connectivity (USB/TB ports) and a higher unified memory limit (32GB+).
 

Freida

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Oct 22, 2010
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I understand what you are saying but look at threads of people confused between i7 and i9 asking what to get.

Apple will simplify the line and it will be lite, medium and pro. No need for more and if the claim is correct and this 'lite' version is fastest cpu then its only limiting factor for the medium/pro line.

M1 for what we saw and then 2 more version max. There will be no xeon etc. The performance we will get will be insane. The way I see it is like everyone will get i9 in the 'mid' and Xeon like in the 'pro'. We just can't look at it like Intel and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 2 lines. M1 and M1 Pro. In fact, you would have 2 chips and the M1 Pro would be stackable so for Mac Pro you would go 2x M1 Pro.

Thats the way I see it. Super simple line of chips with max 3 variants. GPU might even be another chip which would/could make sense. If "Lifuka" is real then it may not be on the chip as I suggested before but actually separate chip on the logic board. We shall see but I doubt we will see much numbers confusion coming from Apple.

Few more months to find out :)




Naming can be very confusing. Which is better in your example, Pro or Power?

M1 and M1X might be OK, even M1Z if there is a third family, and would follow their iPhone and iPad naming convention. But they have already shown signs of treating Mac differently by listing the number of cores in specs, and what happens if there are more than three levels? For Intel they have had i3, i5, i7, i9, and Xeon processors, some of those replicated across desktop and laptop versions, and different levels within i5 especially. I believe there will be fewer levels on Apple Silicon, but it could easily be more than three. For example, we already have low end. There is likely to be a higher end laptop level, a desktop level for iMac, and another for the Mac Pro, maybe even options within those. The one thing that seems certain is there is a need for a bigger performance differential between the top end and low end on Mac than iPhone or iPad. M1, M1W, M1X, M1Y, M1Z doesn't work.

Processor generation followed by core count is more flexible, and both have higher numbers as better. I'm not saying it will happen, but I can see why it would.
 

Freida

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Oct 22, 2010
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I think we won't see M2 till next year fall again. I think we will be on the A14 A15 etc. cycle as I assume A chip and M chip share a lot so the development will be parallel with these two.

So back to your post, I think we see M1X (or however they will call it) and for M2 we will have to wait another year.

Unless Mac gets priority now and will get the newer chips before iPhones but that would be major mixup.

I think M2 next year based on A15 will be the mindblowing one. I almost wish to hibernate until then :D :D :D


That we did not get an iMac announcement makes me believe that the ~24-inch model will have a new form factor and probably a more powerful SoC (M1X / M2) with more cores (CPU and GPU), more connectivity (USB/TB ports) and a higher unified memory limit (32GB+).
 
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Cassandle

macrumors 6502
Jun 4, 2020
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I think we won't see M2 till next year fall again. I think we will be on the A14 A15 etc. cycle as I assume A chip and M chip share a lot so the development will be parallel with these two.

So back to your post, I think we see M1X (or however they will call it) and for M2 we will have to wait another year.

Unless Mac gets priority now and will get the newer chips before iPhones but that would be major mixup.

I think M2 next year based on A15 will be the mindblowing one. I almost wish to hibernate until then :D :D :D
M1x makes sense, as does a Spring release for the next level of Macs (entry-level iMac, next tier of the smaller MBP - these could both be redesigns too - here's hoping!) as that's when the iPad Pros generally get released too. It will be the A14x in those.

Perhaps the M1z for the 16" MBP and 27" iMac later in 2021?
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
12,528
11,544
Seattle, WA
The China Times did mention an "A14T / Mount Jade" that they believed would go into the iMac and would be a "desktop class" chip.

Apple could call this the M1X or they might call it the M2, depending on what's inside. We've been hearing rumors of a 12-core SoC for Macs so perhaps that is this "A14T". We also have the "Lifuka" GPU in development which could be part of "Mount Jade" (as in a more powerful GPU core design than what the A14/M1 use) or a discrete GPU package (which I believe is less likely).
 
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Moonjumper

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I understand what you are saying but look at threads of people confused between i7 and i9 asking what to get.

Apple will simplify the line and it will be lite, medium and pro. No need for more and if the claim is correct and this 'lite' version is fastest cpu then its only limiting factor for the medium/pro line.

M1 for what we saw and then 2 more version max. There will be no xeon etc. The performance we will get will be insane. The way I see it is like everyone will get i9 in the 'mid' and Xeon like in the 'pro'. We just can't look at it like Intel and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 2 lines. M1 and M1 Pro. In fact, you would have 2 chips and the M1 Pro would be stackable so for Mac Pro you would go 2x M1 Pro.

Thats the way I see it. Super simple line of chips with max 3 variants. GPU might even be another chip which would/could make sense. If "Lifuka" is real then it may not be on the chip as I suggested before but actually separate chip on the logic board. We shall see but I doubt we will see much numbers confusion coming from Apple.

Few more months to find out :)
I agree that the lineup will be simpler, but we will have to wait for how much simpler. I can see them only offering 1 CPU choice for each model with a message along the lines of giving us the fastest option as standard. But this simplification either leaves a lot of money on the table as there are no processor upgrades, or Apple raise prices and narrows their market.

I'll go with the simplification idea. The MBA / low-end MBP chip separation has gone, a fan being the only major difference (1 GPU core less on the cheapest MBA won't make that much difference), and that may be something replicated elsewhere. The high end small MBP might be upgraded to have the same chip as the larger model (possibly becoming 14" and 16"). At the top end the Mac Pro will probably have everything taken to the max (the rumoured halving of the size is maybe the result of replacing all the PCI slots with Lifuka slots).

This leaves the iMac, which is the biggest unknown (not the only thing, I believe we may get a new form factor, Mac Nano maybe). There are repeated rumours of a 24" model. Hopefully this is a larger version of the small model, and not just a complete simplification of the iMac down to one model. I don't think this will be the case, and we will see a larger model, maybe 30". Would both sizes have the same processor? or maybe only the larger size gets Lifuka, or there are different Lifuka tiers.

Now looking the other way. I assume there are already two M1 chip dies needed as the RAM is unified on the chip, and there are two RAM sizes available. Although the RAM could be present on all chips, but just disabled. However, I think that would be a bit weird, as disabling cores for differentiation would have been more likely than that. If different dies are already needed for different RAM options, package them with more cores to make the upgrades more alluring.

All this is just a thought experiment. Mac needs are different to iPhone / iPad needs, so there are few clues from there. And Apple Silicon is very different from Intel, so even fewer clues there. I expect to be surprised, but guessing is fun.
 

Freida

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O course it is. I am expecting a big surprise as so far they focused on beating Intel on the low end computers. High end needs to be even better + GPU has to match at least 5700 to start although I expect that Apple will want to go with a bang so we might be aiming for RDNA2 performance. I'm not talking about raw numbers but real performance though.

So if a game has this perfomance on 4k ultra settings on RDNA2 than M1X will match that.
Maya viewport will have this amount of fps on Nvidia as on M1X. Those are the numbers that I'm talking about.

Real world performance is what will Apple focus on. If Lifuka can pull same performance as RDNA or RDNA2 then that will be amazing start. Matching that with the improvements in the chip overall and we have an excellent computer that will shine in real world use cases.

No more spinning balls, no more wait times etc. Seamless experience we are all used to from iPads and iPhones.

Will we get that with first generation of GPU (Lifuka) is remain to be seen but I'm optimistic that Apple will surpass AMD fairly quickly.



I agree that the lineup will be simpler, but we will have to wait for how much simpler. I can see them only offering 1 CPU choice for each model with a message along the lines of giving us the fastest option as standard. But this simplification either leaves a lot of money on the table as there are no processor upgrades, or Apple raise prices and narrows their market.

I'll go with the simplification idea. The MBA / low-end MBP chip separation has gone, a fan being the only major difference (1 GPU core less on the cheapest MBA won't make that much difference), and that may be something replicated elsewhere. The high end small MBP might be upgraded to have the same chip as the larger model (possibly becoming 14" and 16"). At the top end the Mac Pro will probably have everything taken to the max (the rumoured halving of the size is maybe the result of replacing all the PCI slots with Lifuka slots).

This leaves the iMac, which is the biggest unknown (not the only thing, I believe we may get a new form factor, Mac Nano maybe). There are repeated rumours of a 24" model. Hopefully this is a larger version of the small model, and not just a complete simplification of the iMac down to one model. I don't think this will be the case, and we will see a larger model, maybe 30". Would both sizes have the same processor? or maybe only the larger size gets Lifuka, or there are different Lifuka tiers.

Now looking the other way. I assume there are already two M1 chip dies needed as the RAM is unified on the chip, and there are two RAM sizes available. Although the RAM could be present on all chips, but just disabled. However, I think that would be a bit weird, as disabling cores for differentiation would have been more likely than that. If different dies are already needed for different RAM options, package them with more cores to make the upgrades more alluring.

All this is just a thought experiment. Mac needs are different to iPhone / iPad needs, so there are few clues from there. And Apple Silicon is very different from Intel, so even fewer clues there. I expect to be surprised, but guessing is fun.
 

Homy

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Jan 14, 2006
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One upside of M1 is that when you choose more RAM at purchase you automatically upgrade your VRAM too. So an iMac with 32 GB can have 20-30 GB VRAM. :)
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
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It will be interesting to see how the Lifuka GPU handles RAM. Will it be part of the on-die package like the M1 and share the memory with the compute cores or will it have it's own RAM like a discrete GPU?

Discrete GPUs have access to their own high-speed RAM with wider buses and I have a feeling Apple might be going this route (or needing to go this route) with Lifuka to achieve comparable performance to a discrete GPU.

So I think we could see Mt. Jade (the higher-performance M series for the iMacs) with its own on-package RAM (32GB+) and then Lifuka and its own on-package RAM and maybe some special high-speed interconnect between the two packages that has higher bandwidth than PCI.

Which makes one wonder if Mt. Jade will have GPU cores, or will that die space be used for more compute cores?
 
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Freida

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I literally cannot wait. I was waiting for this M1 event to see if I want to get the latest iMac or wait for ARM and I think I'll just wait. My 2017MBP might be a bit slow these days but it will still do the job so I can manage to wait another 6-9 months.
Also, I thought about it. The reason why we didn't get redesigned on any of the products is simply because we are getting redesigned iMac and we all know how Apple does redesigns - usually one at a time so this whole thing makes sense. I think spring event might be too early as I feel we will get new iPad Pros but i think WWDC is where we see the new 24&30" iMacs.

With the thermals etc. this is going to be huge upgrade. No bezels and no nonsense - the design will most likely be in the stand and some part of the frame. Apple will have to be careful to make it look like a computer and not just a monitor so this is where the tricky part is.
Lets see next week what the benchmarks are on the current low level chips but I'm more and more excited for next year. 2020 was crap year anyway so 2021 could (and should) be awesome :)


It will be interesting to see how the Lifuka GPU handles RAM. Will it be part of the on-die package like the M1 and share the memory with the compute cores or will it have it's own RAM like a discrete GPU?

Discrete GPUs have access to their own high-speed RAM with wider buses and I have a feeling Apple might be going this route (or needing to go this route) with Lifuka to achieve comparable performance to a discrete GPU.

So I think we could see Mt. Jade (the higher-performance M series for the iMacs) with its own on-package RAM (32GB+) and then Lifuka and its own on-package RAM and maybe some special high-speed interconnect between the two packages that has higher bandwidth than PCI.

Which makes one wonder if Mt. Jade will have GPU cores, or will that die space be used for more compute cores?
 

pldelisle

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2020
2,248
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hi old friends !!!

A quick word to tell you I've finally finished and submitted my master thesis. And already started a new job !

But the new job is offering me a completely locked down HP Elitebook laptop (banking level security). So I don't have enough place for an iMac with my setup (see photo). But I saw this week the new Mac mini M1. This is going to be my next Mac :) Buying it in a couple of weeks for sure. Will take the 512 GB / 16 GB unified memory config.

I was really, really excited and I thought to you all while watching keynote. The next iMac with Apple Silicon will definitely be the most impressive Mac (and computer) of the next decade, nothing less !

My setup is still under improvement. I've bought a sit-stand mechanism from Ergonofis and I have ordered a much larger top and a tablet for speaker amp in walnut from local wood shop. I also have to paint the walls, change location of a speaker, cable job... But as you will notice, an iMac cannot fit. So I will rather buy in the coming weeks the Mac mini which I will mount underneath and two Dell U2720Q monitors to replace my actual 23-24 inch Dell. The Elitebook goes on the MacBook Pro stand during the week and has a thunderbolt docking station for connecting everything.

So, it was the news !

Oh, and working all week long on Windows is such a pain you can't imagine... ahahaha !

IMG_0666.jpeg
 
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Freida

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Oct 22, 2010
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Awesome, love it! Yeah, I think next iMac will be insane. M1 seems like a solid start and thats just the beginning on low end.

How happy are you with the stand-sit desk please? I'm currently researching one and can't decide.
Debatting if I want Vertdesk v3 or something else. So many options.
Any feedback is super appreciated by anyone, please. :)



Hi old friends !!!

A quick word to tell you I've finally finished and submitted my master thesis. And already started a new job !

But the new job is offering me a completely locked down HP Elitebook laptop (banking level security). So I don't have enough place for an iMac with my setup (see photo). But I saw this week the new Mac mini M1. This is going to be my next Mac :) Buying it in a couple of weeks for sure. Will take the 512 GB / 16 GB unified memory config.

I was really, really excited and I thought to you all while watching keynote. The next iMac with Apple Silicon will definitely be the most impressive Mac (and computer) of the next decade, nothing less !

My setup is still under improvement. I've bought a sit-stand mechanism from Ergonofis and I have ordered a much larger top and a tablet for speaker amp in walnut from local wood shop. I also have to paint the walls, change location of a speaker, cable job... But as you will notice, an iMac cannot fit. So I will rather buy in the coming weeks the Mac mini which I will mount underneath and two Dell U2720Q monitors to replace my actual 23-24 inch Dell. The Elitebook goes on the MacBook Pro stand during the week and has a thunderbolt docking station for connecting everything.

So, it was the news !

Oh, and working all week long on Windows is such a pain you can't imagine... ahahaha !

View attachment 1668273
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
12,528
11,544
Seattle, WA
Awesome, love it! Yeah, I think next iMac will be insane. M1 seems like a solid start and thats just the beginning on low end.

Just saw the Front Page article noting that even in Rosetta emulation the M1 has a higher Geekbench single core score than every Intel-powered Mac, including the i9 in the 2020 iMac.
 
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pldelisle

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2020
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How happy are you with the stand-sit desk please?
I'm stunned by the quality of Ergonofis. I only bought the mechanism because the whole walnut desk was simply too expansive. Current top is an Ikea top for 50$ 60''x30''. It's high quality motor, the electronics is high quality single board design and it doesn't make too much noise when going up or down. It's very, very nice, and productivity increased with it. It's very noticeable in the afternoon when sun is going down, you feel a bit sleepy... You push the button, get up and it gives you a little boost of concentration. Really like it. It's a game changer for a programmer. I do my scrum meetings on the morning always standing. You need to be quick, fast, efficient in those meetings and making them standing is noticeably better. Don't hesitate no more, you will like it for sure.

I saw this website too : https://www.workwhilewalking.com/best-standing-desk-workstation-reviews

Ergonofis is not listed, but this site recommends the same electronics Ergonofis use because of its very high quality (LogicData). It's not a cheap Autonomous desk. And it's made in Canada.

The top will be made by https://directdlashop.ca.
 
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Freida

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Thank you so much, I'll look into it. Really appreciate the input. :)

And on topic: seeing the numbers from M1 its almost tempting to buy Mac Mini and use that in the meantime before we get the iMac. As certainly it does give me the impression that it will be much faster than my aging 2017 15" MBP

I can't even comprehend what we will get with the mid/upper range of M chips :)

I'm stunned by the quality of Ergonofis. I only bought the mechanism because the whole walnut desk was simply too expansive. Current top is an Ikea top for 50$ 60''x30''. It's high quality motor, the electronics is high quality single board design and it doesn't make too much noise when going up or down. It's very, very nice, and productivity increased with it. It's very noticeable in the afternoon when sun is going down, you feel a bit sleepy... You push the button, get up and it gives you a little boost of concentration. Really like it. It's a game changer for a programmer. I do my scrum meetings on the morning always standing. You need to be quick, fast, efficient in those meetings and making them standing is noticeably better. Don't hesitate no more, you will like it for sure.

I saw this website too : https://www.workwhilewalking.com/best-standing-desk-workstation-reviews

Ergonofis is not listed, but this site recommends the same electronics Ergonofis use because of its very high quality (LogicData). It's not a cheap Autonomous desk. And it's made in Canada.

The top will be made by https://directdlashop.ca.
 

Freida

Suspended
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
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Please, get it fixed. Batteries are no fun and you really don't want to get home and see your place on fire. :)

Also, I've sent you a DM if you have time, please have a look (so we don't go off-topic here with the desk) :)



Don’t turn the knife in the wound... I’m still on my soon-battery-exploding 15 inch MBP Late-2013.
Amazed by how the swelling battery can still handle it ??
 

Freida

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Oct 22, 2010
4,077
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Shhh, adults talking. No kids allowed here :p :p :p

OK, so I (and 342 others to be sure) won the poll about when the iMac redesign will occur. 2020 is no longer an option so 2021 must be it. I’m expecting checks (cheques, if you will) in the mail please, and thanks for playing.
 
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