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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
- Thread starter krazzix
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Yes looks like a "large" iMac type, middle performance computer type of chip. CPU performance will be what? Near 10.000 Geekbench (?), which is sufficient. If it is shared with the MBP16, expect and almost iMac24 thin case and space grey/silver options with black bezels, some legacy ports at the edge of the case.Finally a "reliable" source. This is what we'll be getting in a 29.5" or bigger iMac. 10 CPU cores are more than enough (8 performance cores vs 4 in M1). All that matters this time is those 16-32 GPU cores.
Redesigned MacBook Pro Models With 10-Core Apple Silicon Chip Said to Launch as Early as This Summer
Apple plans to launch new 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro models with an improved iteration of the M1 chip as early as this summer, according to...www.macrumors.com
I extrapolated some gaming benchmarks for M2 and it will be impressive (1260p is for iMac 24"):
- M1 GPU 8 cores: Borderlands 3 1080p Ultra 22 fps - medium 30 fps (1260p 19-26, 1440p 15-23)
- M2 GPU 16 cores 1440p 30-46 fps, 32 cores 1440p 60-92 fps
- M1 GPU 8 cores: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided 1080p Ultra 24 fps (1260p 20, 1440p 18)
- M2 GPU 16 cores 1440p 36 fps, 32 cores 72 fps
- M1 GPU 8 cores: Shadow of the Tomb Raider 1080p Medium 24 fps (1260p 20, 1440p 18)
- M2 GPU 16 cores 1440p 36 fps, 32 cores 72 fps
- M1 GPU 8 cores: Metro Exodus 1080p medium 25-45 fps (1260p 21-38, 1440p 19-35)
- M2 GPU 16 1440p 38-70 fps, 32 cores 76-140 fps
MiniLED for the 29.5+ screen? Perhaps as a BTO for the Pro crowed that also need 64Gb RAM and 8TB SSD.
I wonder what the transistor count will be on that one? I think it will be too high for a single chip.So the report says super duper new mac pro will arrive in 22. I wonder if that means the big imac will have to wait till then as well.
Redesigned Mac Pro with up to 40 Apple Silicon cores coming in 2022 | AppleInsider
Apple is reportedly readying a new Mac Pro desktop that could include a new faster Apple Silicon chip with up to 40 processing cores and 128 graphics cores for launch in 2022.appleinsider.com
Yes sooner rather than later would
The M1 is about 75% of the size of a Core i7 and about 60% the size of a Core i9 so Apple should have no issue expanding the die size of the "M1X" to add more CPU and GPU cores.
We also have the rumors of Apple making their own GPU ( Lifuka ) which could be an "external" GPU for applications like the Apple Silicon Mac Pro which could have only CPU cores (up to 32) on the main SoC and then Lifuka would be "external" - so off-die, but maybe still on-package like the RAM in the M1 - with up to 128 GPU cores.
The M1 is about 75% of the size of a Core i7 and about 60% the size of a Core i9 so Apple should have no issue expanding the die size of the "M1X" to add more CPU and GPU cores.
We also have the rumors of Apple making their own GPU ( Lifuka ) which could be an "external" GPU for applications like the Apple Silicon Mac Pro which could have only CPU cores (up to 32) on the main SoC and then Lifuka would be "external" - so off-die, but maybe still on-package like the RAM in the M1 - with up to 128 GPU cores.
That is die size in mm^2 you refer to, yes? Transistor count is 11 billion on M1 and on larger NVIDIA GPU 28 billion is ifremember correctly. If wee assume that all or near all transistors need to function, the more transistors the lesser the yield.
I agree that the off die but on package GPU seem most likely.
and then there is this:
www.macrumors.com
this is nice: up to 64GB of RAM and four Thunderbolt ports
Apple Working on High-End Mac Mini With Additional Ports and More Powerful Chip From Next-Gen MacBook Pro
Apple is working on a high-end version of the Mac mini, featuring a more powerful Apple silicon chip and extra ports, according to Bloomberg's...
www.macrumors.com
this is nice: up to 64GB of RAM and four Thunderbolt ports
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Apple's TB controllers only support one port as opposed to the two ports that Intel's do so it sounds like the "M1X" will have four TB controllers compared to the two on the M1.
Nvidia is on an inferior node. Die size is what matters for yields not so much transistor size.
The M1 is tiny compared to other chips, but that doesn’t mean Apple will be able to make massive chips either because you need a more mature node for that. But a ~200mm M1X should be no problem on 5nm.
Is it better to have separate controllers per port?
I imagine the GPU cores have the highest transistor counts so they may be the most likely to see a "yield failure" as with the A12X and the 7-core M1s.
We could also see a mix of on-die and on-package GPU cores like we have now with the Intel iGPU and AMD dGPUs.
more bandwith. The imac pro for instance has 2 controllers and 2 ports each (4 total) I believe, where the regular imac has 1 and 2.
I expect the 24" model to remain as a "consumer" model so it will not have the performance of it's "big brother" with performance improvements will come with updates to the baseline M-series SoC (M1 to M2 to M3...).
So what is the over under on a mini-led option in the forthcoming larger iMac update? I know it's probably not realistic based on the limited capacity due to production issues, but are we thinking there is even a remote possibility? Would it perhaps be a built to order option? I am planning on waiting a few generations to upgrade because I have a great 2020 iMac, but i will admit a mini-led option might budge me to reconsider.
So after talking with another poster, in terms of the SoC, I believe we're going to see one with 8 performance cores, 2 efficiency cores and then 16 GPU cores as the baseline with 32 GPU cores as an option. All of these cores will be on-die as they are on the M1 (it will be a physically larger chip).
I am presuming the SoC with 32 GPU cores is "Jade-C Die" and then "Jade-C Chop" is the one with 16 cores, either by electrically disabling half the cores of the 32 model or using a different mask that only has 16 cores.
I believe these will be A14/M1 class cores: "Firestorm" for performance and "Icestorm" for efficiency. I believe this because the China Times reported that the SoC Apple was developing for the iMac (now iMac Pro) and MacBook Pro was to be called the "A14T" and had the code name "Mt. Jade".
I am presuming the SoC with 32 GPU cores is "Jade-C Die" and then "Jade-C Chop" is the one with 16 cores, either by electrically disabling half the cores of the 32 model or using a different mask that only has 16 cores.
I believe these will be A14/M1 class cores: "Firestorm" for performance and "Icestorm" for efficiency. I believe this because the China Times reported that the SoC Apple was developing for the iMac (now iMac Pro) and MacBook Pro was to be called the "A14T" and had the code name "Mt. Jade".
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I haven’t followed this entire 400+ Page thread, but I wonder if Apple might just delay the 30” model for at least 6 months to give the 24” time in the spotlight.
Surely a more capable and better spec 30” iMac announced say at WWDC, would kill sales of the current 24” model.
So late October 2021 is my guess.
Surely a more capable and better spec 30” iMac announced say at WWDC, would kill sales of the current 24” model.
So late October 2021 is my guess.
I imagine the significant majority of people waiting for the 30" iMac are people not excited about the 24" iMac for whatever reason (too small a screen, not enough cores, not enough RAM, not enough storage) and therefore would not buy the 24" iMac, regardless. The 24" iMac has everything I want - except a 27" or larger screen. So I am not going to buy one (at least for the moment).
Of the rest, they may be interested in the 24" iMac, but are not in a position where they have to buy it and can wait to see what else is on offer: not just the larger iMac, but also the more powerful and expandable Mac mini and the 14" and 16" MacBook Pro. So again, they would not be buying a 24" iMac right now, anyway.
If the product is differentiated enough, a 30-inch (or thereabouts) new iMac would probably not hurt sales of the new 24. In that respect the previous poster is largely correct. But where there is product overlap, a new iMac would risk cannibalizing sales of the 24, and the 24, if cheaper as seems likely, would cannibalize sales of the new model.
It's a long time since Apple was careless enough to make that kind of mistake - and they paid heavily then for doing it, which is why they typically leave plenty of space for product roll-outs and take-up before a new model release that might notably impact it.
Late year is not untypical for Apple's iMac upgrades, and that's when I would expect this time too, though the move to Apple silicon does make it a bit less predictable.
My personal view is that Apple have plenty of room in the roadmap to leave a new iMac waiting a bit, and focus instead on larger or more potent and advanced models of the MacBook Pro this summer, possibly also Mac Pro or top-end mini. But I have no knowledge, just guesses like everyone else.
I think it's possible in the Fall, but the fact that they updated the iMac at all last year tends to make me think they were digging in with the intel model knowing there was a wait until we'd see the larger apple silicon iMac. While the situation remains fluid due to the pandemic and chip shortages, I tend to think we're looking at early next year until we see the new large iMac. But I do hope I'm wrong.
Never understood the argument of staggered releases killing sales. An iMac is not a fashion item. Look at iPhones, the high end and “low” ends are released simultaneously so people can chose.
The 24 inch is for office work, point of sale, students and home use.
The 30 inch will be for enhanced productivity and with an associated higher price tag.
I see very little overlap. The one it reason the 30 inch is not here yet is that they higher performance chips is not available.
The 24 inch is for office work, point of sale, students and home use.
The 30 inch will be for enhanced productivity and with an associated higher price tag.
I see very little overlap. The one it reason the 30 inch is not here yet is that they higher performance chips is not available.
What do you think will be a realistic starting price for a bigger iMac? If you upgrade the 24" to be suitable for medium strong workloads (16GB / 1 TB SSD) you're already coming in the range of the current 27". $2,099 vs. $2,399. My guess will be that it will be targeted a lot more in the direction of iMac Pro and will start with $1,999.
Yes.
Though now seeing John Siracusa's mockups and hearing that Apple has been working on interconnecting multiple SoCs I am starting to think that "M1X" will have the 16/32 GPU cores on die and that the Mac Pro will use either two or four "M1X" SoCs linked together in a multi-SoC arrangement for 20/64 or 40/128 CPU/GPU configurations.
A large part of the reason is churn. iPhones are broadly taken to be disposable items, so users replace them fairly regularly, which creates a lot of sales and product space in the market. Competing products don't create notable levels of cannibalization in that situation - though there is some.
Macs don't fit that pattern at all, so churn in the market is pretty low. A user will buy one product, once per 5-6 years rather than 1 in 1-2 years (at a guess), and where there is cannibalization, it costs $1500 per sale, rather than $500.
I suspect Apple are a bit more sensitive to cannibalization since this is what almost tanked the entire company at one point, when they were producing multiple self-competing products.
Which is why I believe Apple has differentiated their product lines since the "pre-Steve" times to better align a product family and configuration within that family to a customer. This increases customer confidence that they chose the "right" product for them based on their needs/wants/desires so when a different option is made available within six months or so, they do not feel they made a bad choice because that option does not meet their needs/wants/desires as well.
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