Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[DrRadon]

What have you been smoking? The old design looks fine? Are you going mad, or have not seen monitors, AIOs, etc, in the past few years?

It's a very well don design classic. There is a reason the iMac Design more or less has been around since 2004, only changing in color 2007, and overall weight and thickness of the machine over the years since than having the latest redesign 2017 in the iMac Pro. The black framing detaches the monitors contend from its surroundings without creating any of the drawbacks you have in a Laptop or even worse in a iPad/iPhone.
The bezel is around because it serves a purpose, the only time Apple ever diverted from it for a in-house desktop release was with the ProDisplay 2019.

Yeah, it's probably going to happen. It's going to be smaller next year around this time. I don't hate that. But that dos not make a design that was great for over a decade bad or even horrible. The next design refersh iMac is probably going to look a lot like this one... think about the screen size increase rumored to come with MiniLED... why do you need that screen size? If you remove the bezel you need more real estate in the back to still fit all the components while keeping the thing "appearing flat" as it has been since 2012. That will be your redesign. Smaller Bezel, bigger screen to fit all in the back that needs to. It's not going to be a unicorn doing yoga on a beach made of diamonds. If you want that buy Alienware.

 

[STC1709]

Just over 2.5 inches on my 2017, which would be identical to the 2019.




I guess it depends on how Apple implements ARM support. Catalyst seems to be the modern version of Universal Binaries (so both ARM and x86) so that would be one way, though I think we'd also see an x86 emulation layer ("Rosetta") so those apps could be run natively on an ARM CPU (especially if Apple can quickly improve the overall performance by throwing more cores on the dies and improving each core's performance).

Thanks. My 2009 is 3.25 so they did shrink it a bit.

 

[DrRadon]

You are quite correct to bring Apple's AiO design into the context of what is available from the rest of the computer market. Want to see what an AiO can look like? Hop on over to M$'s Surface Studio desktop AiO which is on version no.2 with even better specs and the design is drop. Dead. Gorgeous. Leaving the archaic iMac in the dust. If it ran Mac OS? I wouldn't buy Apple's iMac. Want to have good value? And see what CAN go in the AiO? Take a look at HP's AiO with 32 (!) inch 4k screen with a 2080 gpu driving it which will smash the cards available for the iMac. And the price? £3k with 32 gigs of ram and a 1TB SSD.

Ah, the age old argument of "look what you could get if you would not buy overpriced apple".
You do know better than that, common.
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Last week I nabbed a 2019 refub i9/Vega model because the Barclays promo was ending and I couldn't wait anymore to upgrade from my 2012. The machine is excellent, but the fan is still very loud and annoying. This wasn't what I really wanted to do but the circumstances kind of forced my hand. Other than the noise the machine is excellent (albeit the same design).

Nothing says "thats not what i really wanted" more than spending 4000+€ on a i9 Vega 27 Inch iMac.

 

[CWallace]

As I am not an artist standing over my desk to draw, the Surface Studio's design is anathema to me and if Apple turned the iMac into it, I'd no longer be an iMac customer.

 

[AlexGraphicD]

As I am not an artist standing over my desk to draw, the Surface Studio's design is anathema to me and if Apple turned the iMac into it, I'd no longer be an iMac customer.

I wouldnt want any touch or pencil support on an iMac, but I would welcome a portrait rotation of the screen.

 

[jonblatho]

It's a very well don design classic. There is a reason the iMac Design more or less has been around since 2004, only changing in color 2007, and overall weight and thickness of the machine over the years since than having the latest redesign 2017 in the iMac Pro. The black framing detaches the monitors contend from its surroundings without creating any of the drawbacks you have in a Laptop or even worse in a iPad/iPhone.
The bezel is around because it serves a purpose, the only time Apple ever diverted from it for a in-house desktop release was with the ProDisplay 2019.

Yeah, it's probably going to happen. It's going to be smaller next year around this time. I don't hate that. But that dos not make a design that was great for over a decade bad or even horrible. The next design refersh iMac is probably going to look a lot like this one... think about the screen size increase rumored to come with MiniLED... why do you need that screen size? If you remove the bezel you need more real estate in the back to still fit all the components while keeping the thing "appearing flat" as it has been since 2012. That will be your redesign. Smaller Bezel, bigger screen to fit all in the back that needs to. It's not going to be a unicorn doing yoga on a beach made of diamonds. If you want that buy Alienware.

I’m not sure if you’ve seen the inside of an iMac, but nearly all of the space behind the left/top/right bezels and chin on the iMac is empty. The enclosure gets too slim to realistically do anything with it.

I’d be thrilled if they’d flatten out the back and make the sides thicker — think more like the shape of the Pro Display XDR. The iMac’s slim edges are a design gimmick, if for no other reason than above, and the strongly bulged back feels very out of step with basically Apple’s entire lineup at this point. It’d free up space to push both the display and the electronics closer to the edges of the enclosure, allow for possibly far better speakers, and afford an opportunity to really rethink the iMac’s cooling more than the iMac Pro did.

And, just for the record, I’m in favor of losing the chin. Sure, it’s iconic, but so is the Click Wheel, and basically no one’s clamoring for that to come back in 2020. Whenever Apple ships a redesign, it will still be abundantly clear that it’s an iMac from the front and back.

 

[pldelisle]

Keep in mind that Johny isn't there anymore. The "slimmer the better" mentality isn't there anymore

 

[sublunar]

Interesting thought experiment: I wonder if the pandemic and the seeming continuation/permanence of folks working from home will lead to an uptick in iMac sales (and desktop computers at large). I understand this is about a 2020 iMac redesign (which wouldn't have time to be a reaction to the pandemic, but this is a fun path to go down so bare with me).


If I don't need to carry my MBP back and forth on the train to work each day then I can get a lot more bang from my buck in buying an iMac. Apple's got a lot more freedom in how they change the design when fitting into laptop sleeves isn't a consideration, making an iMac update a far more exciting prospect. Apple's designers would probably also LOVE having design and engineering problems besides ultra-thin keyboards and battery/thermal constraints.

If we assume that things won't quite go back to the old normal (who knows... people *do* have short memories), then the dynamics of what people want might have really changed here. Desktop computer with large screen, WAY more emphasis on video conferencing (built-in ring light? higher resolution FaceTime camera? Different placement for more natural eye contact?). I wonder what else would change.

If my kids are going to have workstations to home school in perpetuity (FAR less likely or widespread than adults working from home from now on, but still... what if) then I want a sort of school desk Peloton. Maybe easy switching between the FaceTime camera and the ShowTime camera (by your keyboard) so you can show and tell more than holding up to your face. Everything needs to be push-button appliance easy because despite Google Classroom and Zoom getting easier, it's not quite appliance level right now. I realize this more when I help my kids and mom with their videoconferences/retirement group chats/classes. The software isn't easy enough.

This is a great theory, I would have said that Apple had a back room with a variety of ideas for refreshes and redesigns ready to go so the C-level folks could pull the trigger on which one to go with depending on what they gauge to the the way ahead.

How this translates to the idea about an iMac being 'ready to go' for weeks - and the reason for its current non appearance - now is clearly open to debate. What if an imminent launch was canned as the COVID situation became clearer and Apple decided to go with a redesign model?

Your camera idea about the iMac could be as simple as using the FaceTime HD camera from the iMac Pro.

For the video conferencing angle Apple would probably allow software that would light up a portion of the screen - very easy - but let's see if they decide to make FaceID a thing for a real update.

That iMac Pro case might well just get repurposed for the regular Comet Lake iMac with FaceTime HD camera, 4 Thunderbolt ports, and a lack of accessible RAM.

RAM wouldn't necessarily be a problem for the short to medium term if Apple went with 16Gb minimum as far as I am concerned.

Obligatory UK iMac stock check: The stock iMac 21.5" has suddenly jumped to June 1 with BTO anywhere from May 26 to June 3 (slightly more availability for the top SKU), the 27" is June 6-13 (BTO June 18-25).

The US store still has plenty of 21.5" stock up to 3 days away while 27" iMacs are still on the scale of weeks away so things effectively are unchanged.
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I guess it depends on how Apple implements ARM support. Catalyst seems to be the modern version of Universal Binaries (so both ARM and x86) so that would be one way, though I think we'd also see an x86 emulation layer ("Rosetta") so those apps could be run natively on an ARM CPU (especially if Apple can quickly improve the overall performance by throwing more cores on the dies and improving each core's performance).

They will probably support Intel until the last Intel machine becomes vintage (5 years after last sold) and then for two more years after that with security patches. I'm not concerned as these machines last ages.

 

[CWallace]

I’m not sure if you’ve seen the inside of an iMac, but nearly all of the space behind the left/top/right bezels and chin on the iMac is empty. The enclosure gets too slim to realistically do anything with it.

I expect the volume is used to help the cooling fans move air so thickening those edges again would improve the internal cooling volume which would be a good thing.

With the iPad Pro going back to "slab sides" and the iPhone 12 rumored to be doing the same, I'd be fine if the iMac returned to that, as well.

 

[Al Bundy]

Gusping...well said.

The iMac design is dated, tired and stuck in a time warp. And prices have ridden up over the years.

You are quite correct to bring Apple's AiO design into the context of what is available from the rest of the computer market. Want to see what an AiO can look like? Hop on over to M$'s Surface Studio desktop AiO which is on version no.2 with even better specs and the design is drop. Dead. Gorgeous. Leaving the archaic iMac in the dust. If it ran Mac OS? I wouldn't buy Apple's iMac. Want to have good value? And see what CAN go in the AiO? Take a look at HP's AiO with 32 (!) inch 4k screen with a 2080 gpu driving it which will smash the cards available for the iMac. And the price? £3k with 32 gigs of ram and a 1TB SSD.

The Microsoft Surface Studio desktop is a beast ! If only Apple made an iMac like that, as powerful with a decent price range, they would just dominate the market... Every Apple i've had, i always had a feeling of "not quite there yet"... Always a step behind...

 

[CWallace]

If the Surface Studio 2 is a "beast" with a lower-resolution screen (though at least it has an acceptable DPI), a slow 8th generation 4-core mobile CPU, a slow SATA hybrid-SSD and is "decently priced" at $4199, then the 2017 iMac Pro is a "Gojira-class" monster and an absolute steal of a deal at the $3800 you can get one for today, much less the $3500 it was recently available for.

(And yes, I know the iMP price is for a refurb, but having owned many, they're as good as new and MS does not have any SS2s in their refurb store).

 

[Mike The Soundguy]

If the Surface Studio 2 is a "beast" with a lower-resolution screen (though at least it has an acceptable DPI), a slow 8th generation 4-core mobile CPU, a slow SATA hybrid-SSD and is "decently priced" at $4199, then the 2017 iMac Pro is a "Gojira-class" monster and an absolute steal of a deal at the $3800 you can get one for today, much less the $3500 it was recently available for.

ipowerresale was at 3699 now 3999 I'm curious when or if they drop again maybe before next month ? Then I would a jump on one . No tax either so thats another $$ save

 

[sublunar]

I expect the volume is used to help the cooling fans move air so thickening those edges again would improve the internal cooling volume which would be a good thing.

With the iPad Pro going back to "slab sides" and the iPhone 12 rumored to be doing the same, I'd be fine if the iMac returned to that, as well.

Don't forget there's also got to be accommodation for increased fan speed. I would say that there's a engineering reason to go with the current shape as well as marketing excuses to describe it as extremely thin at the edges. It makes it easier to grab the sides to turn it I guess.

It's just a shame that Apple's AIOs make it very hard to clean dust out.

 

[gusping]

If the Surface Studio 2 is a "beast" with a lower-resolution screen (though at least it has an acceptable DPI), a slow 8th generation 4-core mobile CPU, a slow SATA hybrid-SSD and is "decently priced" at $4199, then the 2017 iMac Pro is a "Gojira-class" monster and an absolute steal of a deal at the $3800 you can get one for today, much less the $3500 it was recently available for.

(And yes, I know the iMP price is for a refurb, but having owned many, they're as good as new and MS does not have any SS2s in their refurb store).

I nearly just collapsed. My god, you are right. 4 cores for £3-4k here in the UK. Bloody hell.... I am speechless. The whole design looks even more compromised than an iMac, so I guess they can't put anything more in without a redesign (sounds familiar....).
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Unfortunately, still far from being that big ... But still...

?

No, I don't play games with that.

View attachment 917377

Gotta love Noctua fans!
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It makes it easier to grab the sides to turn it I guess.

This shouldn't be a factor on a desktop computer... EVER. Any desktop computer engineer who puts that argument forward should be sent to the gulags. I'm not saying anyone at Apple has, it just shouldn't factor into the equation.

 

[sublunar]

If the Surface Studio 2 is a "beast" with a lower-resolution screen (though at least it has an acceptable DPI), a slow 8th generation 4-core mobile CPU, a slow SATA hybrid-SSD and is "decently priced" at $4199, then the 2017 iMac Pro is a "Gojira-class" monster and an absolute steal of a deal at the $3800 you can get one for today, much less the $3500 it was recently available for.

(And yes, I know the iMP price is for a refurb, but having owned many, they're as good as new and MS does not have any SS2s in their refurb store).

I'm not going to defend the Surface Studio 2 here but you have just largely ignored the touch screen element of a 4.5k 3:2 display.

Yes the rest of the PC shows an unusual choice of components by Microsoft but I think they were going for the quiet and civilised performance angle.

And, yes, the price appears to be a joke, but how much did you think a 28" iPad was going to cost?

They are aiming this thing at artists, not video editors so the iMac Pro is always going to win if you were going to try editing a Premiere Pro video on the two machines.
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This shouldn't be a factor on a desktop computer... EVER. Any desktop computer engineer who puts that argument forward should be sent to the gulags. I'm not saying anyone at Apple has, it just shouldn't factor into the equation.

Who said the engineers had final say on anything at Apple? Clearly, the designers have the first say. The engineers have to make it fit - Butterfly keyboard anyone?

And yes, that means I'm not necessarily supporting these decisions but I am understanding them.

 

[CWallace]

I'm not going to defend the Surface Studio 2 here but you have just largely ignored the touch screen element of a 4.5k 3:2 display.

Yes I did ignore the touch screen element and I did for a number of reasons:

1. macOS does not (yet) support touch;
2. Unless you are standing over it and drawing on it, you're not going to be using touch as your primary interface so for a general purpose computer user, touch is a gimmick - and paying a significant sum for a gimmick is not a good use of one's money. I mean we laugh at $700 wheels for a 2019 Mac Pro, but at least the wheels do allow you to roll the thing around the office.

Yes the rest of the PC shows an unusual choice of components by Microsoft but I think they were going for the quiet and civilised performance angle.

It's more because as much as we complain about the cooling capacity of the iMac due to its thinness, the Surface Studio is even worse with that little base it has.

And, yes, the price appears to be a joke, but how much did you think a 28" iPad was going to cost?

I'd figure around $2000.

They are aiming this thing at artists, not video editors so the iMac Pro is always going to win if you were going to try editing a Premiere Pro video on the two machines.

If I was doing anything other than draw pictures, the iMac Pro is going to win.

 

[sublunar]

If I was doing anything other than draw pictures, the iMac Pro is going to win.

There's no argument there, but why are comparisons being drawn between these two devices just because they both have high DPI large displays? I'm in no position to comment on the Surface Studio from an artistic point of view - but at least Microsoft have given it a go.

It's almost as pointless an argument as the apparent gamers in this thread complaining that a 5k iMac doesn't in fact sport a CPU and graphics card combination that's capable of smashing 95% of PCs into the ground for a fraction of the cost of said PCs if they actually had some build quality.

 

[DrRadon]

I’m not sure if you’ve seen the inside of an iMac, but nearly all of the space behind the left/top/right bezels and chin on the iMac is empty. The enclosure gets too slim to realistically do anything with it.

I’d be thrilled if they’d flatten out the back and make the sides thicker — think more like the shape of the Pro Display XDR. The iMac’s slim edges are a design gimmick, if for no other reason than above, and the strongly bulged back feels very out of step with basically Apple’s entire lineup at this point. It’d free up space to push both the display and the electronics closer to the edges of the enclosure, allow for possibly far better speakers, and afford an opportunity to really rethink the iMac’s cooling more than the iMac Pro did.

And, just for the record, I’m in favor of losing the chin. Sure, it’s iconic, but so is the Click Wheel, and basically no one’s clamoring for that to come back in 2020. Whenever Apple ships a redesign, it will still be abundantly clear that it’s an iMac from the front and back.

You do realise that with smaller black frame you move the unusable to flat area more inwards and that apple won't do "thicker" unless forced after years of failing product (see MacBook keyboards) even if it would make sense (again, see macbook without magsafe and dongle mania).
All in all, with loosing the chin on top... you don't really seem like you want an apple product.

 

[Spungoflex]

Now with the newer DisplayPort standards allowing for single-stream 6K/5K/4K that might be possible again with a new native 60Hz+ Retina panel that does not need an external timing controller (which is what broke TDM on the 4K and 5K iMacs back in 2014/2015).

I’m confused. Apple’s website says you can use any iMac with Thunderbolt as an external display. I always thought you couldn’t do this.

What is target display mode? Could you ever hook up a PlayStation or XBOX to the iMac?

 

[CWallace]

There's no argument there, but why are comparisons being drawn between these two devices just because they both have high DPI large displays?

The Surface Studio was brought up as something Apple should aspire to emulate with the iMac line because of its supposed power and value.

I disagreed and stated why.

I’m confused. Apple’s website says you can use any iMac with Thunderbolt as an external display. I always thought you couldn’t do this.

If we are referring to this website, Apple notes only specific iMac models can be used as an external display and explicitly notes that the Retina 4K and 5K models cannot.

What is target display mode? Could you ever hook up a PlayStation or XBOX to the iMac?

Target Display Mode was only meant to be used with other Macs.

 

[iPadified]

iMP delivery time seem to jump back and forth nearly from day to day (as is the 21.5!). By contrast iMax 27 delivery is consistently pushed one day at a time forward in time. I say the former behaviour is consistent with limited supply of a component. The latter behaviour is consistent with a complete lack of a component. Why is the iMP delivery time recovered and the iMac 27 not. Is it not the same screen?

"Ready to ship" could just mean that "it is ready to ship when the last lacking component is available". Intel CPU is my guess. The "just in time" management of resources is really problematic when delivery get erratic. Has impacted the car industry and many others industries in these times.

 

[scotttnz]

iMP delivery time seem to jump back and forth nearly from day to day (as is the 21.5!). By contrast iMax 27 delivery is consistently pushed one day at a time forward in time. I say the former behaviour is consistent with limited supply of a component. The latter behaviour is consistent with a complete lack of a component. Why is the iMP delivery time recovered and the iMac 27 not. Is it not the same screen?

I believe it is the same screen. It is possible that Apple has very limited supply of the screen, so is prioritising the lower volume, higher margin iMac Pro over the standard iMac, but I prefer to think, for purely selfish reasons, that it is because a new iMac is imminent.

 

[jonblatho]

You do realise that with smaller black frame you move the unusable to flat area more inwards and that apple won't do "thicker" unless forced after years of failing product (see MacBook keyboards) even if it would make sense (again, see macbook without magsafe and dongle mania).
All in all, with loosing the chin on top... you don't really seem like you want an apple product.

The hell? They’ve shipped a product that, at its crux, almost perfectly matches what I’ve described: thin bezels, no chin, thicker and flat sides, flat back. While I don’t expect Apple to borrow the Pro Display XDR’s design for the iMac by any means (even though I’d buy the living hell out of it if they did), that’s just…a confusing argument at best.

If the back is flat or flatter, there’s no reason why the enclosure would get so thin that the area becomes unusable as in the current design. (It does allow for some airflow, but it’s far from the main event in cooling the electronics.)

As for Apple not doing thinner devices unless forced, iPhones — Apple’s flagship product — have been getting thicker every 1–2 years since the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, which remain the thinnest iPhones to date. Even if this year’s iPhones are thinner than last year’s iPhones, they’re not going to be thinner than the iPhone 6 series.

 

[DrRadon]

Just that there is no computer in that monitor....

 

[iPadified]

I believe it is the same screen. It is possible that Apple has very limited supply of the screen, so is prioritising the lower volume, higher margin iMac Pro over the standard iMac, but I prefer to think, for purely selfish reasons, that it is because a new iMac is imminent.

It is possible that the volumes of the screens are so low that they need to chose iMP over iMac. This would indicate they still are able sell the "stop gap and outdated" iMP. My egoistic self wishes the same; we will get a new iMac very soon.

10900k is available at Amazon but on another outlet they says 22 Jun.
10900 (65W) will be "released" (available) the 28:th of May on amazon and is not available on the other outlet at all.

This suggest the parts are not widely available. If they use the 65W parts which is not unlikely (although some here do not like that), we need to wait til next week at least.