I’d like it if that means new iMacs are imminent, but maybe the reason is parts and labor were not available due to Covid?
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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
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What have you been smoking? The old design looks fine? Are you going mad, or have not seen monitors, AIOs, etc, in the past few years?
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ARM chips will not be replacing i7 and i9 CPUs in 2021... Low end stuff, sure. But not mid to high end chips.
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Not if Apple discontinue the iMac Pro. It may just have been a stopover until the Mac Pro. They could then allow the normal iMac to be specced fairly generously to cover all bases, e.g. 10-core i9s, etc.
But 10 cores is still far from what Cascade-Lake Xeon-W can offer 
With AVX512 (ftw).
Am I the only fervent defender of AVX512 ? ahahah
With AVX512 (ftw).Am I the only fervent defender of AVX512 ? ahahah
True, maybe not many people bought the high core count models (14/18) which would justify that move. Ultimately, if the Mac Pro wasn’t so overpriced, there would be no reason for the iMac Pro to exist.But 10 cores is still far from what Cascade-Lake Xeon-W can offer
Am I the only fervent defender of AVX512 ? ahahah
But these Xeon chips are soooooo pricey. And Apple doesn't get volume discount on these for sure. But when the single Xeon chip costs more than 1500USD, the iMac Pro itself doesn't have choice to be pricey.
I’ll through that other company in the mix again, AMD. Intel are a joke with their CPU prices, especially for the high core count parts.
Either way, the iMac Pro is currently a dead Mac walking as far as i am concerned. I don’t know who would buy one, unless you really hate Catalina (understandable)... I just don’t know if it is worth Apple upgrading it. A lower specced Mac Pro would make much more sense Imo.
Interesting thought experiment: I wonder if the pandemic and the seeming continuation/permanence of folks working from home will lead to an uptick in iMac sales (and desktop computers at large). I understand this is about a 2020 iMac redesign (which wouldn't have time to be a reaction to the pandemic, but this is a fun path to go down so bare with me).
If I don't need to carry my MBP back and forth on the train to work each day then I can get a lot more bang from my buck in buying an iMac. Apple's got a lot more freedom in how they change the design when fitting into laptop sleeves isn't a consideration, making an iMac update a far more exciting prospect. Apple's designers would probably also LOVE having design and engineering problems besides ultra-thin keyboards and battery/thermal constraints.
If we assume that things won't quite go back to the old normal (who knows... people *do* have short memories), then the dynamics of what people want might have really changed here. Desktop computer with large screen, WAY more emphasis on video conferencing (built-in ring light? higher resolution FaceTime camera? Different placement for more natural eye contact?). I wonder what else would change.
If my kids are going to have workstations to home school in perpetuity (FAR less likely or widespread than adults working from home from now on, but still... what if) then I want a sort of school desk Peloton. Maybe easy switching between the FaceTime camera and the ShowTime camera (by your keyboard) so you can show and tell more than holding up to your face. Everything needs to be push-button appliance easy because despite Google Classroom and Zoom getting easier, it's not quite appliance level right now. I realize this more when I help my kids and mom with their videoconferences/retirement group chats/classes. The software isn't easy enough.
If I don't need to carry my MBP back and forth on the train to work each day then I can get a lot more bang from my buck in buying an iMac. Apple's got a lot more freedom in how they change the design when fitting into laptop sleeves isn't a consideration, making an iMac update a far more exciting prospect. Apple's designers would probably also LOVE having design and engineering problems besides ultra-thin keyboards and battery/thermal constraints.
If we assume that things won't quite go back to the old normal (who knows... people *do* have short memories), then the dynamics of what people want might have really changed here. Desktop computer with large screen, WAY more emphasis on video conferencing (built-in ring light? higher resolution FaceTime camera? Different placement for more natural eye contact?). I wonder what else would change.
If my kids are going to have workstations to home school in perpetuity (FAR less likely or widespread than adults working from home from now on, but still... what if) then I want a sort of school desk Peloton. Maybe easy switching between the FaceTime camera and the ShowTime camera (by your keyboard) so you can show and tell more than holding up to your face. Everything needs to be push-button appliance easy because despite Google Classroom and Zoom getting easier, it's not quite appliance level right now. I realize this more when I help my kids and mom with their videoconferences/retirement group chats/classes. The software isn't easy enough.
iMac Pro is rumored to be getting miniLED and stay with a 27" panel size. Not sure if this means LG is developing an all-new 5K panel for Apple or if they are using the same panel, but now with miniLED backlighting. If a new panel, then there could be the option of 120Hz refresh and/or the return of Target Display Mode depending on how they implement the Timing Controller.
As to a new iMac being ready before the formal Intel announcement of Comet Lake S, Apple has been able to secure new Intel CPUs before other OEMs. Apple has also secured custom models of Intel CPUs (the B Series W-2100 Xeons in the iMac Pro) so with the K models at 125W, perhaps Apple secured models with slightly lower clocks to help with cooling, but still better than what the 65W models offer.
As an aside, if Apple had moved to the mobile Comet Lake H series, there would have been no reason to delay the launch as those were available for a March release, so I believe iMac is still on CL-S.
As to Apple announcing an ARM-powered iMac at WWDC, I don't see it unless it's a special Developer Model. And I would expect such a SDM to be in an existing chassis (maybe it will use the 21.5" chassis if a new ~24" Intel model launches as the consumer replacement).
As to a new iMac being ready before the formal Intel announcement of Comet Lake S, Apple has been able to secure new Intel CPUs before other OEMs. Apple has also secured custom models of Intel CPUs (the B Series W-2100 Xeons in the iMac Pro) so with the K models at 125W, perhaps Apple secured models with slightly lower clocks to help with cooling, but still better than what the 65W models offer.
As an aside, if Apple had moved to the mobile Comet Lake H series, there would have been no reason to delay the launch as those were available for a March release, so I believe iMac is still on CL-S.
As to Apple announcing an ARM-powered iMac at WWDC, I don't see it unless it's a special Developer Model. And I would expect such a SDM to be in an existing chassis (maybe it will use the 21.5" chassis if a new ~24" Intel model launches as the consumer replacement).
Gusping...well said.
The iMac design is dated, tired and stuck in a time warp. And prices have ridden up over the years.
You are quite correct to bring Apple's AiO design into the context of what is available from the rest of the computer market. Want to see what an AiO can look like? Hop on over to M$'s Surface Studio desktop AiO which is on version no.2 with even better specs and the design is drop. Dead. Gorgeous. Leaving the archaic iMac in the dust. If it ran Mac OS? I wouldn't buy Apple's iMac. Want to have good value? And see what CAN go in the AiO? Take a look at HP's AiO with 32 (!) inch 4k screen with a 2080 gpu driving it which will smash the cards available for the iMac. And the price? £3k with 32 gigs of ram and a 1TB SSD.
And why settle for an ancient Apple design when Apple's very own Pro Display XDR is pointing forwards with a more modern and aggressive styling.
The iMac Pro (whether it stays or goes away...) was clearly a stopover for the Mac Pro. Apple's flagship pro desktop was an absolute mess for 6 years. At least. The iMac Pro is 3 years out of date and a £1k price cut wouldn't make it any more attractive to me.
Bring it's refinements to the iMac and rebrand IT the 'Pro'. Essentially bringing the iMac Pro performance to the mainstream with more modern components. Yes, folks. Computer technology advances and becomes cheaper. But seemingly not in the Apple desktop universe.
8-10 core could quite easily cover the iMac 'Pro' at £1700-£3500. There's plenty of room there to 'Pro' the mainstream iMac. IS there any reason why the mini and the iMac don't share the same space grey?
Last year's iMac update was very lazy. It's due something substantial in design, spec and price value.
Azrael.
You can be sure Apple gets a nice discount on the W-Series Xeons and the new W-2200s that would be used in a 2020 iMac Pro retail for close to half the price of the W-2100s in the current iMac Pro thanks to pricing pressure from AMD. So a 2020 iMac Pro that was just a spec-bump could be significantly cheaper, but I expect Apple will keep it at $4999 and offer new goodies like a 27" 5K miniLED HDR display to justify keeping the price as-is.
I'd seriously consider buying a 2020 iMac Pro with a 5K HDR display. And the current iMac Pro seems to be quite popular with app/software developers and audio / video engineers (podcasts / YouTube) because it offers plenty of performance with a great display.
The Mac Pro engineering is too expensive to really drop it's price based on how many it sells. And yes, I realize it sells less because it costs so damn much. But a $4000 Mac Pro with the same specs as an iMac Pro connected to an LG UltraFine 5K display would probably not be as popular because the UF display is generally not as good as an Apple iMac display due to Apple both taking the best panels for themselves and doing more calibration so that their is more uniformity across panels.
Promotion. Maybe so. If the iMac Pro 'stays' then it will need to distinguish itself from the iMac's pending 'substantial' release which will see it draw level and pass the iMac Pro in terms of specs for a much cheaper price. The current top end iMac pulls close and beats it in some benches. Whether all the iMac Pro's refinements make it to the iMac? They should. £1700-£3560 is a lot of money to oven bake your components at that price. And the iMac speaker were never any better (to me) than the ones they replaced in the iMac 24 incher. Plenty to improve. And give a it a paint of Space Grey. If the iMac Pro stays we can't rule out it getting an XDR design shift.
As for the CPUs. Apple can under volt/clock them?
Azrael.
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If Apple were really that concerned with the best tech at the best prices they'd put the AMD cpus in the iMac.
The 'new' incoming iMac will torpedo iMac Pro sales. Why bother buying one when the 'substantial' update is going to the iMac?
The iMac Pro is essentially going to go mainstream. In its place? Put a £2500-£3500 Mac Pro with i10 cpu etc. There's no good reason to not have a tower in your line up in the £2k price range for those that need to go that route. It's artificial upsell.
Azrael.
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Apple can piggy back Intel's premium to add their own premium. It's more about profit than offering a customer a good deal.
Xeon Chip at 1500£. You can have a 12 core AMD for around £400.
*shrugs at Xeons.
An excuse to price the iMac Pro way higher than it needs to be.
Azrael.
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But 10 cores is still far from what Cascade-Lake Xeon-W can offer
Am I the only fervent defender of AVX512 ? ahahah
Threadripper. Did I dream that bit about AMD going 64 cores?
Azrael.
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The shadow of darkness swirls around the 27 incher.
Come on, Apple...pull your finger out.
Azrael.
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So all the 125-watt Comet Lake S chips do TDP down to 95-watts and I would expect Apple to run them at those speeds. That takes the 8-core to 3.5GHz from 3.8GHz and the 10-core to 3.3GHz from 3.7GHz.
Rather than having CPU speeds fluctuate from base clock to 'Wahay!' out burney...and then hit the brakes and down clock again in a yoyo fashion.... I think to down volt(?) clock them then you'll be able to run them at a sustained clock vs the capability to cool them. That's what makes sense to me.
So I'd expect TDP down to 95-watts. If that means the 8 core is down to 3.5 gig but it's all core all the time without the fans taking off to the sun aka icarus...then that's an engineering/performance compromise.
I'm pretty sure this is done with the current 8 core machines as per one review I watched which stated the fans on the 2019 don't kick up despite the increased demands because the cpus was 'pegged' lower. A 2019 iMac owner would have to confirm that the fans don't work as hard as my eg. 2012 late iMac. And 2019 iMac didn't adopt the iMac Pro cooling.
That being the case. I wish Apple wouldn't charge the full premium on top of Intel's premium when they down clock components but offer a cheaper price.
That or put the iMac Pro's cooling and teH huge heat sink in there.
Azrael.
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Unfortunately, still far from being that big ...
But still...?
No, I don't play games with that.
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I'm pretty sure this is done with the current 8 core machines as per one review I watched which stated the fans on the 2019 don't kick up despite the increased demands because the cpus was 'pegged' lower. A 2019 iMac owner would have to confirm that the fans don't work as hard as my eg. 2012 late iMac. And 2019 iMac didn't adopt the iMac Pro cooling.
That being the case. I wish Apple wouldn't charge the full premium on top of Intel's premium when they down clock components but offer a cheaper price.
That or put the iMac Pro's cooling and teH huge heat sink in there.
Azrael.
Last week I nabbed a 2019 refub i9/Vega model because the Barclays promo was ending and I couldn't wait anymore to upgrade from my 2012. The machine is excellent, but the fan is still very loud and annoying. This wasn't what I really wanted to do but the circumstances kind of forced my hand. Other than the noise the machine is excellent (albeit the same design).
Rather than having CPU speeds fluctuate from base clock to 'Wahay!' out burney...and then hit the brakes and down clock again in a yoyo fashion.... I think to down volt(?) clock them then you'll be able to run them at a sustained clock vs the capability to cool them. That's what makes sense to me.
So I'd expect TDP down to 95-watts. If that means the 8 core is down to 3.5 gig but it's all core all the time without the fans taking off to the sun aka icarus...then that's an engineering/performance compromise.
I'm pretty sure this is done with the current 8 core machines as per one review I watched which stated the fans on the 2019 don't kick up despite the increased demands because the cpus was 'pegged' lower. A 2019 iMac owner would have to confirm that the fans don't work as hard as my eg. 2012 late iMac. And 2019 iMac didn't adopt the iMac Pro cooling.
That being the case. I wish Apple wouldn't charge the full premium on top of Intel's premium when they down clock components but offer a cheaper price.
That or put the iMac Pro's cooling and teH huge heat sink in there.
Azrael.
I think Apple should put in iMac Pro's cooling. 10900K shows to want over 250-watts at full load anyway. But I fully expect down-clocked at premium prices. I look forward to being wrong and surprised!
The 2020 iMac Pro will offer 12, 14 and 18-core CPUs while the iMac will offer only 6 and 10. The iMac Pro will also offer more powerful GPUs (more powerful models of the Radeon 5000 family and/or RDNA2). It will also offer 10Gb Ethernet and considering that Apple has not yet adopted Wi-Fi 6, it could be an iMac Pro exclusive. And it can take more RAM (1TB vs 256GB) and could have better SSD speeds thanks to being RAID 0 (even if the iMac does get T2, they could still be only single SSD blades). And if it does get a miniLED display, that would allow better HDR.
So plenty of reasons why an iMac Pro can hold its own in the product matrix.
Yes I am strongly considering a 2020 iMac Pro if it has a miniLED HDR display (base model - hoping it is 10 cores instead of the current 8) as it should effectively last me until 2030.
Exact. My current MBP lasted me 7 years.
But something tells me that Apple, if switching to ARM, won't support macOS on Intel x86 for *that* long.
And I don't even know if I would like to be on x86 for that long too. As a dev, I'd be willing to be in the firsts switching to ARM Mac. It will definitively work better I think than actual macOS on x86.
But something tells me that Apple, if switching to ARM, won't support macOS on Intel x86 for *that* long.
And I don't even know if I would like to be on x86 for that long too. As a dev, I'd be willing to be in the firsts switching to ARM Mac. It will definitively work better I think than actual macOS on x86.
Just over 2.5 inches on my 2017, which would be identical to the 2019.
I guess it depends on how Apple implements ARM support. Catalyst seems to be the modern version of Universal Binaries (so both ARM and x86) so that would be one way, though I think we'd also see an x86 emulation layer ("Rosetta") so those apps could be run natively on an ARM CPU (especially if Apple can quickly improve the overall performance by throwing more cores on the dies and improving each core's performance).
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Last time, with Universal Binaries and Rosetta, Mac OS stopped supporting PowerPC after about 4 years (but obviously security updates continued for years after that)