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Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?


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Apple must be getting weary with all this non-stop dancing :D

Never fear, though: The ITA contingent will be along shortly to explain to all us scare-mongering Neanderthals how everything is just fine and nobody need worry.

Meanwhile, my exodus from Apple began today in earnest: Just got back home with the Garmin watch that will likely replace my Apple Watch.

Which Garmin did you get?
 
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Which Garmin did you get?
Venu Sq. So far I think it'll do. It's no Apple Watch, but it has what I need. The health and fitness app on the phone I actually like a lot more than Apple's app.

The pulse oxy measurement is wildly off. Wasn't surprised by that. So I won't bother with it.

I was hoping it'd link up with my ancient Polar HRM's chest band, but it must not be an ANT+ sensor. That wasn't surprising, either. (When I write "ancient," I mean as in I've had it since 2005 :p ) Maybe I'll snag a modern chest band to use with it. That would be great for when I'm doing HIIT.

I'm still figuring my way around it.
 
Apple must be getting weary with all this non-stop dancing :D

Never fear, though: The ITA contingent will be along shortly to explain to all us scare-mongering Neanderthals how everything is just fine and nobody need worry.

Meanwhile, my exodus from Apple began today in earnest: Just got back home with the Garmin watch that will likely replace my Apple Watch.
Let me know how that works out. Message me if you can. I am using an inexpensive generic watch at the moment. I wanted to see if this whole watch thing was worth while. I sort of like it and have been looking at upgrading to perhaps a better or more powerful one.
 
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Except that camera wouldn't report anything unless the footage matched exactly to footage they already have on file, which wouldn't be possible unless you specifically had that exact footage and played it in front of the camera. Nice try though.
The question was, would you want a camera constantly watching you and having to trust that it was only doing what was claimed. Most people would not want that.
 
Let me know how that works out. Message me if you can.
Will do. If I forget: Ping me.

Make no mistake: I'll miss my Apple Watch. But, well... So I wanted something upon which I could clearly see date and time, and preferably would keep track of my heart rate. This does a lot more than that--incl. current weather, shows me up-coming calendar events, etc.
 
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Will do. If I forget: Ping me.

Make no mistake: I'll miss my Apple Watch. But, well... So I wanted something upon which I could clearly see date and time, and preferably would keep track of my heart rate. This does a lot more than that--incl. current weather, shows me up-coming calendar events, etc.
The watch I am using is called DaFit... It only cost about $30 but it does weather, news, connects with my Android phone and does messages, email, and app alerts. Onedrive can talk to it and it informs me whenever a calender event occurs. For health it does heart rate, oxygen, blood pressure, sleep tracking, and various excercises, to include counting steps. All that for $30 was a pretty good deal.
 
The question was, would you want a camera constantly watching you and having to trust that it was only doing what was claimed. Most people would not want that.
What else am I supposed to do? Hasn’t it been this way since the beginning? All we can do is trust that Apple is doing what they say they’re doing. Same as it has always been. Has anything changed?
 
What else am I supposed to do? Hasn’t it been this way since the beginning? All we can do is trust that Apple is doing what they say they’re doing. Same as it has always been. Has anything changed?
That’s the point, they haven’t always done this. They were the chosen one; the champion of privacy. And now we have this. You trust them, I don’t anymore. Clearly I never should have at least for the last few years.
 
LMAOOOO every other day they have to release some new information to counter all this new information popping up. Now all of a sudden they say there's a secondary hashing system that works in the cloud but uses a completely different technology than the NeuralHash they touted in the initial press release. No mention of this at all in the first press release or any subsequent "white paper" or "peer review paper"
Anyone who still has a shred of trust for Apple (or any other corporation) cannot be helped, and probably doesn't want to be helped. If their excitement for next product has no brakes, they will fully embrace the power of denial and lash out at everyone who doesn't.

By the way, this isn't our first wake up call in the mistrust department. It just happens to be the most recent, and one that has caught quite a bit of traction in some groups like this forum.
 
That’s the point, they haven’t always done this. They were the chosen one; the champion of privacy. And now we have this. You trust them, I don’t anymore. Clearly I never should have at least for the last few years.
My point is, why suddenly stop trusting them now? They’re being flat out open and honest with us. I can respect that.
 
My point is, why suddenly stop trusting them now? They’re being flat out open and honest with us. I can respect that.

Because now Apple is setting a precedent, by asserting the right to search your personal device for incriminating evidence. This can’t be compared to simple imagine analysis to help organize your vacation photos. This is a search for criminal behavior, and the search is occurring on your private property.

Most people in modern western society acknowledge that a warrant would be needed for that type of thing, and that innocent citizens should not be subjected to warrantless search and seizure, especially when they haven’t been accused of or suspected of committing a crime.

Apple is a corporation led by unelected individuals with no public oversight. If they assert this right without any pushback, then Pandora’s box will be open.
 
Because now Apple is setting a precedent, by asserting the right to search your personal device for incriminating evidence. This can’t be compared to simple imagine analysis to help organize your vacation photos. This is a search for criminal behavior, and the search is occurring on your private property.

Most people in modern western society acknowledge that a warrant would be needed for that type of thing, and that innocent citizens should not be subjected to warrantless search and seizure, especially when they haven’t been accused of or suspected of committing a crime.

Apple is a corporation led by unelected individuals with no public oversight. If they assert this right without any pushback, then Pandora’s box will be open.
It’s not a warrant less search. If you have iCloud Photos turned on, then you consent to having the items you upload checked for CSAM. No need to worry though because you don’t have any of it, right? It’s the same thing as having the TSA check your bags at the airport.

No you shouldn’t be able to use Apple to host illegal images of child abuse.
 
It’s not a warrant less search. If you have iCloud Photos turned on, then you consent to having the items you upload checked for CSAM. No need to worry though because you don’t have any of it, right? It’s the same thing as having the TSA check your bags at the airport.

No you shouldn’t be able to use Apple to host illegal images of child abuse.

Of course you should not be able to use Apple to host illegal images of child abuse. Don’t come here to argue against points that I didn’t make. You’re being intellectually dishonest at best.

And as I have stated several times in previous posts on here, I’m happy to have Apple look at all my iCloud photos because I don’t have anything to hide. however, the search should be happening in the cloud and not on my personal device.

Turning off iCloud photos is not a valid option, because it does not prevent the surveillance software from being installed on my personal device.

There’s a flaw in every analogy, but we can play this game if you really want to you. The TSA is stationed at the airport, and I consent to their search when I choose to fly. The TSA doesn’t follow me home to live at my house. Turning off iCloud photos doesn’t prevent the search software from being installed on my personal device.

And I’m hardly alone in this belief. Watch Rene Ritchie’s video:

 
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Relais servers, now that sounds like the best way out of this mess for apple without losing face. Saying "we listened to user feedback" and just moving back to untouchable end user devices. He is right to say any compromise has to happen on apple's side not on the user's side.
 
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Anyone who still has a shred of trust for Apple (or any other corporation) cannot be helped, and probably doesn't want to be helped. If their excitement for next product has no brakes, they will fully embrace the power of denial and lash out at everyone who doesn't.

By the way, this isn't our first wake up call in the mistrust department. It just happens to be the most recent, and one that has caught quite a bit of traction in some groups like this forum.
I think you are overdramatising the whole situation especially if you are yourself a kind of person who are easily bought into “Cold War”, “war on drugs”, “9/11” etc.
Humanity had peacefully slept through a million of wake up calls so it is actually amusing to see all the “awakening”.
 
I think you are overdramatising the whole situation especially if you are yourself a kind of person who are easily bought into “Cold War”, “war on drugs”, “9/11” etc.
Humanity had peacefully slept through a million of wake up calls so it is actually amusing to see all the “awakening”.
See posts like this are kind of strange. It’s really an indirect and condescending attack on anyone who cares about anything. Global warming? Fell for that one. Voter fraud? Fool. Etc., etc., Now if someone argues with you on this—they are breaking out their tin foil hat.

nice try.
 
Of course you should not be able to use Apple to host illegal images of child abuse. Don’t come here to argue against points that I didn’t make. You’re being intellectually dishonest at best.

And as I have stated several times in previous posts on here, I’m happy to have Apple look at all my iCloud photos because I don’t have anything to hide. however, the search should be happening in the cloud and not on my personal device.

Turning off iCloud photos is not a valid option, because it does not prevent the surveillance software from being installed on my personal device.

There’s a flaw in every analogy, but we can play this game if you really want to you. The TSA is stationed at the airport, and I consent to their search when I choose to fly. The TSA doesn’t follow me home to live at my house. Turning off iCloud photos doesn’t prevent the search software from being installed on my personal device.

And I’m hardly alone in this belief. Watch Rene Ritchie’s video:

Disabling Siri doesn't remove the software from your device, how do you know it's really disabled? Disabling Spotlight doesn't remove the software from your device, are your files still being indexed? Who knows? You can't even stop Photos from using AI to search your photos for Cats, Dogs, Cars etc... that's kinda forced on you. There are lots of options that are toggles, but the software is STILL ON YOUR DEVICE... oh no.
 
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Disabling Siri doesn't remove the software from your device, how do you know it's really disabled? Disabling Spotlight doesn't remove the software from your device, are your files still being indexed? Who knows? You can't even stop Photos from using AI to search your photos for Cats, Dogs, Cars etc... that's kinda forced on you. There are lots of options that are toggles, but the software is STILL ON YOUR DEVICE... oh no.

Your desperate conflation of these features is beyond ridiculous. But please, go on if you must. For the love of god, if you really think spotlight indexing gives way to Apple scanning users devices for criminal behavior, then I am done with you. You can’t come up with a good argument because you don’t have one.
 
Disabling Siri doesn't remove the software from your device, how do you know it's really disabled? Disabling Spotlight doesn't remove the software from your device, are your files still being indexed? Who knows? You can't even stop Photos from using AI to search your photos for Cats, Dogs, Cars etc... that's kinda forced on you. There are lots of options that are toggles, but the software is STILL ON YOUR DEVICE... oh no.
See on the surface I see your hyperbole and I can laugh and sort of agree. But underneath of that you do highlight the criticality of the situation. Some of us no longer trust Apple to act in OUR best interest. Instead there are now other interests that appear to matter.

Does this mean that Apple is using Siri to spy on me even if I disable it? Most likely not. But neither you, nor I, can truly know anything that goes on in a closed box. You react to the situation by blindly accepting whatever Apple does. That is fine and is your choice.

I choose to respond by removing the sanctimonious and moralistic walled garden from my life. :) The trust is broken and making light of the situation is fine, just not what we are saying.
 
Disabling Siri doesn't remove the software from your device, how do you know it's really disabled? Disabling Spotlight doesn't remove the software from your device, are your files still being indexed? Who knows? You can't even stop Photos from using AI to search your photos for Cats, Dogs, Cars etc... that's kinda forced on you. There are lots of options that are toggles, but the software is STILL ON YOUR DEVICE... oh no.
No, but I can stop using those devices, which apparently isn't acknowledged as an option to some of those defending Apple. Worried about stock prices?

You know, I changed my stance in the last year and opted to try the latest technology, and so tried Apple Music, HomeKit, iCloud, and bought a bunch of new devices. And while the whole thing has been seamless for the most part, I'm starting to see that my hesitance was justified. There's simply too much trust that has to be given for the convenience, and I'm losing that trust by the day as I'm losing faith in technology. When it comes to my flip phone, iPod nano, DSLR, and my Garmin Nuvi, there is very little to trust as the devices learn an insanely less amount from me. The phone roughly knows my location and who I talk to, but all communications can be easily severed by removing the battery. The iPod only plays music. The DSLR gets a view of the world, but doesn't scan my photos and try to report me (physically unable), and the camera sensor is physically blocked when turned off. My Garmin can show me around without any connection to the outside world. It only receives a GPS signal. Apple Pay is hit or miss, but cash always works.

So yes, while Spotlight could be compromised and report every file on my device to Apple, I take a certain level of trust with the device. Trust in that accelerometer data isn't trying to guess what I'm doing and sell the data to the highest bidder, or that Maps doesn't record every move I make and plot it out on a map accessible over the web (both of which Google does by default, interestingly enough with location disabled on my phone at the time). However, the topic at hand is EXPLICITLY designed to actively check our photo libraries and report us to the authorities if it detects enough matches to a top-secret database that is loaded on our phones without any choice. With the announcement, Apple stated exactly how it feels about their customer base. So now, many of us are (rightly) questioning our technology and some (myself included) are deciding that we're done with "smart" technology. It's just no longer worth the tradeoffs, especially when a handful of dedicated devices can do the job just as well or better (the only reason I have an iPhone 12 is because my X was garbage at handling phone calls, but my flip phone has better audio quality than both of them).

It's why I drive a Bolt and not a Tesla Model 3. The Bolt can easily become a disconnected car, but not Tesla (and like with Apple, everyone has to question your motives instead of answering the question, "Can the internet connectivity in a Tesla be disabled and the car still Supercharge if it has free Supercharging?"). Why is there a cabin camera in the 3 and Y? What is it looking for? I'm sorry, I don't accept the premise of the manufacturer inviting itself into my life to see if I'm doing anything illegal. Sorry, GM, I'm not letting my car send you my driving data via OnStar so you can sell it to my insurance company and make me pay more because I accelerate aggressively (usually to get away from zombie drivers, and there are a ton of those these days).

So, that's fine if you are comfortable with this and opt to continue using Apple products. That's your choice. We're simply trying to warn you of the dangers of the precedent set by this new "feature", and with enough vocal opposition, maybe have Apple take pause. We don't all want to live under the magnifying glass.
 
See on the surface I see your hyperbole and I can laugh and sort of agree. But underneath of that you do highlight the criticality of the situation. Some of us no longer trust Apple to act in OUR best interest. Instead there are now other interests that appear to matter.

Does this mean that Apple is using Siri to spy on me even if I disable it? Most likely not. But neither you, nor I, can truly know anything that goes on in a closed box. You react to the situation by blindly accepting whatever Apple does. That is fine and is your choice.

I choose to respond by removing the sanctimonious and moralistic walled garden from my life. :) The trust is broken and making light of the situation is fine, just not what we are saying.
In my eyes, Apple hasn't broken my trust. They've outlined exactly what their intentions are and how the software works, just like they've done with every other feature they've implemented. If I don't think Siri is spying on me, then why should I think this new feature is spying on me? That was my point. They could do anything they want, but they don't.
 
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