Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?

[Jayson A]

Well, if QueenTyrone can say it's fact (without proof) so can I.

Wow, what a sound argument.

 

[RedRage]

If one makes the assumption about the spending habits. There are one billion iphone users. Not all spend money on the ecosystem, but all are capable of spending money. For all we know, that '25%' are the bottom feeders in terms of Apple ecosystem $$$.

The folks leaving aren't the bottom feeders. They're probably the people that care more about privacy and spend more money.

Bottom feeders are the ones that simply don't care and will stay no matter what. Nice try though trying to insult those leaving the ecosystem.

 

[RedRage]

Wow, what a sound argument.

It was a joke.

 

[jseymour]

Because I'm not speculating. I'm taking Apple's documentation as fact ...

That you don't appear to see the irony in that at all is fascinating.

Anyway... you be you. I'm one of the 25%.

 

[Jayson A]

That you don't appear to see the irony in that at all is fascinating.

Anyway... you be you. I'm one of the 25%.

What other documentation do we have to go by?

 

[I7guy]

The folks leaving aren't the bottom feeders. They're probably the people that care more about privacy and spend more money.

Bottom feeders are the ones that simply don't care and will stay no matter what. Nice try though trying to insult those leaving the ecosystem.

Obviously there is no way you or I would know how the MR 25% bubbles up to the real world and what the spending habits of those 25% would be. My guess is there would be a normal curve on the spending habits of these 25%.

But it's a false conclusion to assume that people who care about privacy spend more money.

 

[RedRage]

Obviously there is no way you or I would know how the MR 25% bubbles up to the real world and what the spending habits of those 25% would be. My guess is there would be a normal curve on the spending habits of these 25%.

But it's a false conclusion to assume that people who care about privacy spend more money.

If they care this much about their privacy they're more than likely deep into the ecosystem. I see people on here getting rid of all their apple products from Macbooks to iPads to Watches.

But it's all just a guess at this point.

 

[Jayson A]

Obviously there is no way you or I would know how the MR 25% bubbles up to the real world and what the spending habits of those 25% would be. My guess is there would be a normal curve on the spending habits of these 25%.

But it's a false conclusion to assume that people who care about privacy spend more money.

I think it's kinda funny that people are literally going to buy an android, root it, install a custom OS on it and ditch their Mac and get a Linux machine and learn how to install and use that all because they think Apple is suddenly spying on them which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[avz]

See posts like this are kind of strange. It’s really an indirect and condescending attack on anyone who cares about anything. Global warming? Fell for that one. Voter fraud? Fool. Etc., etc., Now if someone argues with you on this—they are breaking out their tin foil hat.

nice try.

I replied to the poster who said that anybody who think otherwise “cannot be helped”.
I was trying to make a point that the world is hugely complex and by far NOBODY is educated enough to make statements like this.
By any means it is important to care about issues and discuss them within the limitation of ones knowledge.
This is very hard to do as throughout our life we have dealt with myths, half-truths, outright lies, “good guys vs bad guys” manipulation and so on.

 

[CasualFanboy]

If one makes the assumption about the spending habits. There are one billion iphone users. Not all spend money on the ecosystem, but all are capable of spending money. For all we know, that '25%' are the bottom feeders in terms of Apple ecosystem $$$.

If there was a way to keep track, I would be striving to be the worst bottom-feeder ever to exist. I bought my laptop, and haven't paid another cent to Apple related to the use of this laptop. And that's a brag, not a confession.

 

[CasualFanboy]

QueenTyrone

LOL, has to be a troll account.

 

[CasualFanboy]

But it's a false conclusion to assume that people who care about privacy spend more money.

If anything, the people who are more vigilant would be less likely to fall for Apple's BS, and therefore give less money for Apple's "more convenience/less autonomy" service model.

 

[GBaughma]

Apple holds the master key to everyone's photo library and they can unlock them at any time.

See, now this is in direct conflict of what was said to me in another post, that apple COULD NOT decrypt your photos without your credentials.

Which, by the way, I knew was incorrect.

 

[Jayson A]

See, now this is in direct conflict of what was said to me in another post, that apple COULD NOT decrypt your photos without your credentials.

Which, by the way, I knew was incorrect.

iCloud Photos has never been End to End encrypted. This could be why Apple is doing the scan on-device, but I find it odd that they haven't announced E2E iCloud Photos. In my opinion, they should've announced them both at the same time (if E2E is coming) to avoid all this backlash. I mean, they could've said something along the lines of "starting with iOS 15, we're moving the CSAM to on-device because in 2022 we're moving forward with E2EE for all iCloud Photos. Apple will no longer hold the key to unlock your photos in iCloud"

 

[CasualFanboy]

I mean, they could've said something along the lines of "starting with iOS 15, we're moving the CSAM to on-device because in 2022 we're moving forward with E2EE for all iCloud Photos. Apple will no longer hold the key to unlock your photos in iCloud"

So, you know that's not what they plan to do, or they would have said it. They spend tons of time and money crafting the message that makes them look best. I always figure the truth is much worse than what they say.

 

[RedRage]

I was planning on getting out of the ecosystem BEFORE this news broke loose. But it won't happen overnight. I'm not just gonna up and sell all of my stuff tomorrow. But when it comes time to replace something it will be non-apple.

My first to be replaced will probably be my MacBook Pro sometime later this fall. Not sure what I'm gonna get yet, been doing some research.

 

[I7guy]

If anything, the people who are more vigilant would be less likely to fall for Apple's BS, and therefore give less money for Apple's "more convenience/less autonomy" service model.

I'm not sure that is a valid conclusion either...ergo if one who are more vigilant then one would be less likely to fall for Apple's BS and as a consequence give less money. But we all know this kind of thinking can be spun like a top.

Obviously this will be headed in some direction, as well as the proposed anti-trust legislation and EPIC lawsuit. We'll see where it goes.

 

[jseymour]

So, you know that's not what they plan to do, or they would have said it.

In fact the evidence seems to suggest Apple is backing away from end-to-end encryption across the board: Apple Scraps End-to-End Encryption of iCloud Backups

 

[Mendota]

Disabling Siri doesn't remove the software from your device, how do you know it's really disabled? Disabling Spotlight doesn't remove the software from your device, are your files still being indexed? Who knows? You can't even stop Photos from using AI to search your photos for Cats, Dogs, Cars etc... that's kinda forced on you. There are lots of options that are toggles, but the software is STILL ON YOUR DEVICE... oh no.

You just gave an even better reason to not trust Apple and to move on. For myself Apple is not my primary system, so this does not affect me much. I have always used OneDrive and Office for my primary work even on my Apple devices. But you are correct, uses will be violated and scanned no matter. This whole thing just blows me away, Apple had managed to completely torpedoed their own most touted benefits. The competition is going to have a field day. Google is probably firing up the ad campaign even as we speak. "Sure we might send you and ad or two, but we are not taking control of your personal device. Use Android - where what you buy belongs to you!"

 

[Mendota]

In my eyes, Apple hasn't broken my trust. They've outlined exactly what their intentions are and how the software works, just like they've done with every other feature they've implemented. If I don't think Siri is spying on me, then why should I think this new feature is spying on me? That was my point. They could do anything they want, but they don't.

This is your blind spot! You don't know what they are doing... You only know what they are telling you and have no idea what they are concealing. Remember the battery fiasco? Their "feature" slowed phones and they said nothing to the uses about what they had done. It was only because they were "outed" that they then scrambled to come up with the lame excuse of "we were trying to help you by saving your battery". Right, only after that they gave the option to disable it. So, they can do anything they want, and you don't know that they aren't.

 

[allan.nyholm]

Jesus, you people are scared.

I have formed a better opinion since my previous comment - I think that I might actually have become too dependent on Apple's ecosystem.
I haven't got much against iOS or macOS or their services.. there's just something gone awry in my choices along during my computing years.
Movies and music bought within Apple's services that I can't get out easily because of DRM. Movies are the worst. Music is doable, but I don't have 500 million CD's to burn my music library to.

Scanning for Child Pornography images that are in the CSAM registry is the least of my worries. I don't mind.. it's the half-naked Britney Spears images I'm worried about that could get me in the hands of the CIA; stepping out of the plane in the US; orange jumpsuit and chains around my legs and torso.

I wish Britney Spears could see me now. Using my flesh spear.

And yes, call me what you wish. I will stay using Apple's iCloud photos and I will suck on Apple's breasts until someone slices off my lips and cut out my tongue.

Bottomfeeders... hah.. believe in aliens too? UFOs? You're wack - all of you(meaning those who believe in aliens and ufos - not all people everywhere and not everyone on this forum)

It's sometimes like hearing tears through a waterfall on this forum.. so much crying from scared and often hostile babies that have a habit of inducing fear in the common people.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Use Android - where what you buy belongs to you!"

I have to keep reminding myself that we're mainly discussing phones here. I'm thinking in terms of my MacBook Pro, because phones are such an afterthought for me. But it's a distinction without a difference, because Apple has been relentlessly turning laptops into quasi-touch devices toys. Same services, very similar interface.

 

[Mendota]

Jesus, you people are scared.

I am not "scared" at all. I just find it amazing that Apple has finally revealed who they truly are. I for one believe them and I will continue to act accordingly. A company that thinks I should be okay with "spyware" on my devices is a company I will limit doing business with. As far as Apple's decision... I think they did not think this through very well. I think they thought the "For the children" argument was something that would give them a pass on invading personal devices. I think they thought this "do gooder" attitude would buy them praise, and that people would over-look the violation to their privacy. I don't care how innocent I am, I don't want someone spying on me, just in case.

This reminds me of an old Twilight Zone remake episode: The man hands a little boy a drink to take before he takes the mandatory government exam. The man says, "This liquid is to make sure you tell the truth." The little boy says, "Why wouldn't I?" The man says, "The government doesn't think that you wouldn't Dickie, the liquid is just to make sure."

 

[jseymour]

Remember the battery fiasco? Their "feature" slowed phones and they said nothing to the uses about what they had done. It was only because they were "outed" that they then scrambled to come up with the lame excuse of "we were trying to help you by saving your battery".

Heh. Funny thing is: I was so trusting of Apple at the time I was inclined to believe them. Now I look back on that and ask myself "Did I believe them then because their explanation made sense, or because I wanted to believe them?"

In retrospect: Their explanation didn't hold water.

It's possible, at this point, that, if Apple reverses course on their spyware plans, I may keep my iPhone and iPad. I may even take my Apple Watch back out of hibernation. (Though that is a good deal less likely.) I certainly won't be re-enabling any of the services I've discontinued; nor the Health stuff, Siri or HomeKit, and we won't be buying any additional Apple product. When it comes time for new phones and tablets, Apple won't have a lock anymore.

Whatever happens, this episode has taught me I'd become way, way too immersed in the Apple ecosystem, and that was not wise.

 

[iGeneo]

I'm not going to read 23 pages, but it's likely been said, but...

You do realize that you do not own iOS? You are merely granted a license. You are at the mercy of Apple. Good or bad, thats how licensing rolls.

Don't like it? Here is a roll of wire and a pile of sand.. build your own