Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?
- Thread starter singularity0993
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Actually that camera would be mobile and scanning through ”X” in your home. This tech by Apple does nada in preventing CSAM. Just the continued use of specific known existing items.
Still, definitely get your point.
Can you find another “example”? The two are not the same at all.
Unless you have CSAM on your device, pop it up and ask for a comparison search….
btw - as poor as that AI tech example you used, makes me even more concerned about how well developed this is.
Exactly, but this has been true for the Mac since 1984, the iPhone since 2007 and the iPad since 2010.
You can't know for sure what Apple is doing or not.
However many ways there may be for Apple doing the right thing, it is certain that there are vastly more ways of Apple doing the wrong thing, or rather not doing the right thing.
You have to trust them if you are going to use their products and services.
I would also ask “Open and Honest”?
Apple isn’t saying why they are doing this - a lot of effort for little gain, why doing it client side, and only giving us bits and pieces of the process.
Open and honest? Apparently not.
Opinion | We built a system like Apple’s to flag child sexual abuse material — and concluded the tech was dangerous
There’s a reason civil liberties groups are calling for Apple to abandon its system.
www.washingtonpost.com
I never trusted Apple. I knew they were just good at marketing and lying. They’re doing a lot more behind the scenes that we don’t know about.
If Apple's solution didn't put every user under the microscope and actually fought the root problem, we'd likely not have any issues. If someone is stupid enough to share known CSAM through iCloud, they'd be caught with just server-side scanning. What we object to is having the scanning system ON OUR DEVICES. That crosses borders that even Google wouldn't (since base Android is open-source, that can be verified). The only sure opt-out is to stop using Apple devices. I foresee the detection software becoming fully standalone on-device whether you use iCloud or not in a future update (because software never develops into something more powerful, right?)
No, you don't need iCloud for AirDrop. It uses peer-to-peer Bluetooth/WiFi.
Charlie the cat didn't then proceed to follow the kid around and blow the whistle every time the kid wanted to do something. If the kid wanted to simply walk down the street to the candy store without telling anybody, Charlie the cat was none the wiser that anything happened. Apple would know and rat on the kid. And if he bought candy that he wasn't allowed to have, Apple would have him arrested. Charlie couldn't. Also in the '80s, there were payphones everywhere, so even though the kid didn't tote a cell phone, he could still call home in many cases if he got into a jam.
I wasn’t aware iOS and iPadOS had selective photo backup.
Which bucket do those of use fall in who were already moving away?
I voted not leaving, but not comfortable with it. I’m not going to turn off iCloud photos because I’m not worried about the feature as it currently stands, but I’m definitely concerned over what it could develop into in the future. When they start detecting other types of content on my phone is when I’ll turn it off.
Except that giant Apple Privacy billboard I drove past for a bit.
It doesn't have selective backup, but it also doesn't right now either, so whatever can be done to our photo libraries could be done all along in the cloud, but what happens in the cloud we have no control over and whatever software they're using to scan our stuff. However, with the software on-device, it can be picked apart and audited by an independent security group or groups to make sure it's doing exactly what they say it's doing. At least that's what how I understood it. All of this information is in Apple's white papers.
1. They have said the CSAM detection system would not be there until iOS 15 which is true.
2. Again, if it's plentiful, please provide a statement with a source where Apple said it was the most important thing. A statement from Apple saying "We believe privacy is a fundamental human right" is not enough evidence.
I think that's the best approach. No sense in losing sleep over it until there's an issue. Apple has always taken our privacy seriously.
So if I have Photo Backup on, by default all of my photos get scanned by this proposed solution.
Yeah, but isn't the whole point that Apple is going through all this trouble precisely to set themselves apart from Facebook and google by not scanning your photos server-side?
Currently, iOS scans your photos on-device to tag them, and this information does not leave your device.
At the same time, Apple doesn't scan the contents of your iCloud library, and evidently has no intention of doing so anytime soon.
Instead, they go out of their way to design such a convoluted system that is effectively designed to scan your iCloud photos for child porn, without actually scanning for it in the same invasive manner that other companies currently do. And for what?
The only reason I can think of is that Apple is laying the ground for offering fully encrypted iCloud storage one day. They reportedly backed off on this initiative in 2018 at the behest of the FBI, and I am guessing that from Apple's POV, this proposed CSAM detection method offers users the best of both worlds. Nobody can access your iCloud photos that are fully encrypted (if and when Apple does offer such a feature), the data scanned from your photos never leaves your iPhone, but Apple probably still needs a way to convince law enforcement that they are not acting as a safe haven for child pornography so as to get them off their backs.
To me, while the scanning technically will take place on my device itself, it applies only to photos about to be uploaded to iCloud, so in terms of outcome, there really is no difference regardless of whether it happens on my iPhone or in the cloud from Apple's servers. So while the technology may have the potential to be way more invasive, I believe the reality is that it will still end up being a lot less invasive than what Facebook and Google are currently doing to weed out child pornography.
I acknowledge that nobody really knows how such technology could evolve or be abused in the future, but is this not the very definition of a slippery slope argument? The key talking points aren’t so much about CSAM detection as it is situated today (primarily because there isn’t much controversy found there) but rather the slippery slope argument about how by launching CSAM detection now, Apple will find itself in compromising situations in the future. The fear is that countries will force Apple to find non-CSAM material. This feels a bit like a straw man argument to me, not least because there is no mechanism in place for countries to have Apple use CSAM detection to start searching for non-CSAM, and these articles just talk around all of the safeguards Apple has built into CSAM detection like they don't exist.
Even if they wanted to, there are probably way easier ways to "fix" a problematic individual than to frame them via tainting the US CSAM database (which entails so many steps that even a mission impossible movie based on this would be deemed too implausible).
Of course, there is always the possibility that I am totally and completely wrong, and 2-3 years later, Apple still hasn't offered encrypted iCloud storage, and I am left wondering "So what was the point of it all really?"
1. But the underlying mechanism has reportedly been discovered in iOS as far back as 14.3. If true, then it has already been put on our phones with NO notice (I read all the release notes, and there was no mention). It won't be active until iOS 15, but the fact it was part of an update without being mentioned isn't cool.
2. They mention fundamental human rights a lot, but:
After reading another of your posts I had that thought.
Autobackup - scan
Manual backup - don’t scan.
Seems kind of self defeating as a design if they are looking to prevent uploading of this type of material.
More screeching voices of concern.
eclecticlight.co
appleinsider.com
Apple, You Broke Your Privacy Promises and Our Hearts
John sees Apple reversing its commitment to privacy, which he feels has broken the hearts of many apple fans, including his own.
www.macobserver.com
Last Week on My Mac: Trust Apple
Apple hasn’t trusted us with the knowledge of what’s in macOS 11.5.2 update, but expects us to trust it not to abuse its checks on CSAM.
eclecticlight.co
German government wants Tim Cook to reconsider CSAM plans | AppleInsider
The German parliament is wading into the Apple CSAM debate, with a Digital Agenda committee chief writing to Apple CEO Tim Cook to express concerns about mass surveillance.
appleinsider.com
Last edited:
It's not the half-naked Britney Spears you have to worry about... it's that vintage Traci Lords stuff....
You're right. Maybe it's time (since i *DO* own the hardware) to find an open-source phone software that will run on an iPhone.
Only partially true. See: [P] AppleNeuralHash2ONNX: Reverse-Engineered Apple NeuralHash, in ONNX and Python
Apple has already begun putting the code into iOS as of iOS 14.3.
I guess you missed Apple CEO Tim Cook's open letter on Apple's (alleged) dedication to privacy. Here ya go: https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-privacy-policies-in-open-letter-to-customers
I guess you likewise missed this, too:
- Status