Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?

[xxray]

Probably not because the alternative ecosystems aren't better privacy wise or overall. However, what I am doing is:

• No longer upgrading to iPhone 13 Mini and not upgrading my XS Max, iPad, or Mac to iOS 15/iPadOS 15/Monterrey
• Turning off all iCloud Photos functionality (I already stopped using it months ago, but still was using shared albums. No more.)
• Removing all contacts and calendars from iCloud and moving them to ProtonCalendar. I also started paying for ProtonMail Plus to support their efforts to support privacy and to get more features.
• Transitioning to using Firefox as my default browser full-time on all my devices
• Removed all notes from iCloud and have begun using Joplin instead (E2EE)

A lot of my personal changes to become more private online have already been in process. I already have been transitioning my main email from Gmail to ProtonMail. I already stopped using/paying for iCloud Photos and instead switched to storing my photos locally on my iPhone, MacBook, and external hard drive with Time Machine backups. I stopped using/paying for iCloud Drive and encrypted all my files with Cryptomator and put them in Google Drive (more storage for free compared to iCloud). I already removed and stopped using Messages in iCloud.

Apple just rapidly accelerated that process for me with this whole CSAM incident.

 

[Shirasaki]

I've enjoyed your posts here on Macrumors for a long time especially in the iPad section. I'm genuinely curious. What ecosystem are you considering moving to (if you haven't already)?

If there is an ecosystem I can move to, I'd move to full-on Windows or Linux.
I am currently using a Windows PC and I used Windows since I was 5, and tons of games and several applications won't work on Mac. So I am locked in.
Same situation for Apple ecosystem: games, photos, data generated on Macs in general, plus spendings on App Store, Apple devices, and I appreciate a device that can get out of the way most of the time, allowing me to actually enjoy the content rather than fighting over random issues. Windows can provide similar issue-free experience but Apple's ecosystem is more complete and more robust than a singular Windows computer.
To move out of Apple ecosystem, I'd just go back to Windows as going Linux introduces some steep learning curve that I am not sure still having the time and energy to delve into. So only as last resort.

I’d rather take my 1 in a trillion chances of having 30 innocent photos examined by Apple than let any sicko get away with CSAM

Except this new scan thing will likely not catch one extra pedo, and this is not because disabling iCloud library would turn it off. Pedo simply avoid using iPhones altogether and suddenly Apple can't do ********.

So why not give them a chance?

People can be bribed or threatened, and their own survival outweighs a random stranger's life. Not to say these will happen now, but such could happen in the future and Apple cannot control every part of the chain.

 

[EuroChilli]

No.

I'll leave the Apple ecosystem when I feel that Windows and Android can offer me something better. It hasn't happened yet.

And probably never will.

One can always move to Symbian....

 

[MauiPa]

Anyone seriously saying yes has some real issues. I don't even know what is on your phones

 

[Starfia]

I don't use iCloud Photos, and I think Apple has demonstrated by example for decades that they're serious about user privacy (and serious about their responsibility to help protect children from getting into trouble as they fill the world with devices that are theoretically capable of doing so). I think some people's reactions fall between reasonably hesitant and jaded, and that's why it's important to have good information about Apple's approach to these features.

I may find myself within that range of skepticism about Apple's integrity here, but it would take much more than what seems like an application, not a shirking, of their long-stated privacy principles.

 

[Just sayin...]

…going Linux introduces some steep learning curve that I am not sure still having the time and energy to delve into. So only as last resort…

Hardest parts for me were converting all my spreadsheets from Excel to Libre Office (and testing everything), relocating all my media (music, photos, videos) and keeping everything organized, and finding equivalent programs and utilities to replace stuff that doesn’t exist on Linux. I’m almost done…

For me, 1Password, SyncThing, Firefox, rsync, VueScan, and JRiver Media Center have all been very helpful.

 

[Nukemkb]

Voted. I’ve no issue with CSAM.

 

[Jessica Lares]

No, because this isn't a problem that just affects me, it affects everyone and needs to be dealt with via regulation along with all the other issues concerning the use of AI which is already problematic beyond our personal tech. I've also seen the last 10 years of Linux distros and alternative builds of Android, along with Windows Phone, and how a lot of big names in the app world since didn't want to support any of it (for WP, it was that there was no Snapchat and Instagram came too late to go with the nice cameras). They still aren't going to care when a huge chunk of those people are now complaining about subscription pricing that they think Netflix and HBO is more entitled to then they are.

 

[09872738]

all the other issues concerning the use of AI which is already problematic beyond our personal tech.

This is not an AI issue though

 

[one more]

People can be bribed or threatened, and their own survival outweighs a random stranger's life. Not to say these will happen now, but such could happen in the future and Apple cannot control every part of the chain.

I understand it as a concept, yet up till now Apple has had a good privacy ethos, so I would still give them a chance. It is not that any other high tech companies are better, in fact many are worse. I mean Apple were literally going an extra privacy mile with their Maps, if I remember correctly, depersonalising the departure/arrival points and analysing the fragments of our journeys to build up their real-time traffic info.

Besides, if we get to the point when people could get reported/arrested/prosecuted for having an image of an opposing political party or any other legal movement, our gadgets will probably be the least of our problems.

 

[deaglecat]

Personally, I have both IOS and Android.

That said, I won't buy an IOS15 device anytime soon until we better understand where this is going.

What really sticks for me is the "holier than thou" Apple marketing about privacy. Which turns out to be questionable.

 

[cardfan]

Anyone seriously saying yes has some real issues. I don't even know what is on your phones

It’s ok. Apple knows. I’m sure they won’t share it with anyone. They said so.

 

[HylianKnight]

I would not really call it "whining". Apple is integrating a dangerous backdoor to control the content of your devices. If they do that check on their servers, I do not care, but I definitely do not want to get a counter on my iDevice, which may trigger a control check by some clerk at Apple, who "approves" my content. Things on my devices do not have to be "approved".

it is definitely not a back door.

 

[Violet_Antelope]

Thank you xxray for this very useful list

 

[Jayson A]

Except this new scan thing will likely not catch one extra pedo, and this is not because disabling iCloud library would turn it off. Pedo simply avoid using iPhones altogether and suddenly Apple can't do ********.

Tell that to the 20 million CSAM images that were reported by Facebook. People are dumber than you think.

 

[Jemani]

I don’t like iCloud Photos anyway, from the start. I got a NAS drive and set it up to automatically store all my photos from my iPhone, tablet and Mac. I also keep all my music there and can access it from any device. iCloud photos put all my photos on every device in the photo app and if I delete the photos I don’t want on my phone they get deleted everywhere. It is a hot mess, that I just decided early on to not even use it and used my own NAS drive. It is less hassle.

 

[LFC2020]

99.99999999999% of the people will stick with iPhone, not like they have a better option, android? 🤦‍♂️😳🤢🤮

Nokia 5110? 🤔😂

 

[iHorseHead]

99.99999999999% of the people will stick with iPhone, not like they have a better option, android? 🤦‍♂️😳🤢🤮

Nokia 5110? 🤔😂

What's wrong? Android doesn't have to be Google and there are many privacy oriented Android 'distros' out there and Android is better than iOS in many ways.
Android phones are awesome. I know many people who have switched to Android. Being from Europe, most Europeans aren't stuck in Apple eco-system anyways and most people I know constantly switch between Android and iOS. A phone is a phone.
99.99999999% people dont even care what phone they have and may I remind you that for example, many people are against Macs? Even iPhone users often say: "Who the **** would use a Mac?",but they've never even used a Mac. Fanboyism is such a terrible thing.

 

[LFC2020]

What's wrong? Android doesn't have to be Google and there are many privacy oriented Android 'distros' out there and Android is better than iOS in many ways.
Android phones are awesome. I know many people who have switched to Android. Being from Europe, most Europeans aren't stuck in Apple eco-system anyways and most people I know constantly switch between Android and iOS. A phone is a phone.
99.99999999% people dont even care what phone they have and may I remind you that for example, many people are against Macs? Even iPhone users often say: "Who the **** would use a Mac?",but they've never even used a Mac. Fanboyism is such a terrible thing.

It's not about being google, Android isn't anywhere near as polished as iOS, as long as google keeps giving out android to anyone who wants it, it'll continue to be a fragmented mess.

 

[clarencek]

Am I going to leave the Apple eco-system because they want to protect against child abuse?

Nope. And the conspiracy people saying this opens the door to them scanning more and more stuff… if you’re a Facebook, instagram, amazon, google user, then you don’t understand how much you’re being scanned and targeted already.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I think for many people it won't be as simple as I am leaving ONLY due to CSAM. But, with other ecosystems catching up years ago except for privacy and simplicity, it is suddenly a lot easier to leave Apple.

In other words, if I am going to have to make my own NAS based cloud and Apple is no longer the best on privacy, I might as well switch to something cheaper. Apple is not what it once was from a software perspective.

 

[At Sea]

I'll stick with the apple ecosystem but I don't trust so much that it will always be that those behind the wheel of this kind of technology won't at some point employ it against those whose photo library "contains legitimate things the masters oppose".

 

[Abazigal]

Count me in this group. Those of us who actually follow the tech world a little closer realize that Dropbox and most other cloud companies have been scanning for CP for the last 7+ years at least.

Will 99.99% of Apple users care? Nope. Think about it. Most people use Facebook. Nuff said.

For me, it’s not so much that “Apple is still the lesser of two evils even after all this”, but that I feel this CSAM scanning furore is much ado over nothing. People are crying murder because there’s still a lot of confusion over how the feature supposedly works, there’s a lot of FUD being spread because it’s Apple, and then you have the people who love being contrarian about Apple because they think it makes them look smart if and when Apple screws up (never mind that betting against Apple has historically had a very poor track record).

I believe that Apple is still very much committed to privacy, and I see this CSAM scanning feature as an extension of that, in that it aims to achieve what other companies like Facebook are accomplishing in a far less invasive manner (not to mention of course that Facebook also scans your images for a lot more than simply weeding out child porn).

This whole “on device vs in the cloud” line is a false dichotomy and a red herring. For a company like Apple who controls everything, does it really matter where the process technically takes place when the intended outcome is the same?

People will come round in time.

 

[achappy]

Me it’s pretty simple:

1. There isn’t a better ecosystem. Where else can I message, call/FaceTime, browse, Handoff, Photos, AirPods, etc a iMac, two iPads, and iPhone and an Apple Watch as if it’s a single ”system”? Google/Android/Window? Yeah, OK.
2. I understand how the scanning actually works and not worried about it. Whether it happens on the server or on my device it was always happening but my pictures aren’t being “seen”
3. I believe Apple does care about privacy and it’s one of the reasons I think the scanning is just an extension of that.

I think my #3 is the key. I think it comes down to the people who already didn’t believe Apple’s privacy marketing are now like “see told you so!!” and those who do believe it continue to believe it. I figure if they were trying to change that stance then announcing it publicly and publishing White Papers well in advance wouldn’t be their first choice. They’ve been transparent about it from the start.

 

[Banglazed]

No, I'm all for CSAM and I believe Apple's implementation is still better compared to Google, Facebook, Microsoft etc while maintaining privacy of private photos stored on their server and their fight against child safety using CSAM database. We can't have it both ways while trying to fight against child safety behind the guise of privacy of those abusers. I believe Apple should have taken a better approach to educating the public before the media spun it off to create confusion and apprehension.