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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
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I didn't find any such section. There's only five. Game Pass, My Library, Cloud Gaming, Community, and Store.

I can find some of them via search but they're all buy only. None seem to work via Game Pass Ultimate. Starting to wonder what the point of the sub even is for.

FYI this is obviously not a Windows 11 issue, but an app issue. Or a service expectation I had that was shot down to heck. Can't blame the OS for limited Xbox support.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,464
2,692
OBX
I didn't find any such section. There's only five. Game Pass, My Library, Cloud Gaming, Community, and Store.

I can find some of them via search but they're all buy only. None seem to work via Game Pass Ultimate. Starting to wonder what the point of the sub even is for.

FYI this is obviously not a Windows 11 issue, but an app issue. Or a service expectation I had that was shot down to heck. Can't blame the OS for limited Xbox support.
Yeah, I also thought that you should be able to stream games from your xbox onto other devices, but I haven't seen the interface for that yet (at least on PC).
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Yeah, I also thought that you should be able to stream games from your xbox onto other devices, but I haven't seen the interface for that yet (at least on PC).
you can, click this button in the Xbox app. If set up correctly your Xbox will be there ready to stream

1652099204561.png
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
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I'm guessing such a streaming feature won't be compatible with the original Xbox One, as that's the only one I have other than my old 360. I am on the lookout for a used later model console.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,144
7,120
Well I reinstalled Windows 11 twice now, Xbox app just does not work AT ALL. Will not queue up games for 30 minutes, then it never installs and eventually gets an error code. Fresh Windows 11 install with only graphics drivers installed. All windows updates.

I am going back to 10. I gave this a try by even reinstalling 11 from scratch.

As a test, I reinstalled 10 and Xbox app worked no problem.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
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The Xbox app was severely limited on Windows 10 (well it was an old version as well) and it's pretty broken in 11. They recently updated it and it most of the time loads a 'skeleton page' (blank animated squares where content would normally be) but I'm more certain that's an incompatibility in my router config and HOSTS file, where I block 99% of Microsoft's telemetry and updates.

Nothing could make me return to Windows 10. I absolutely hated that dumbed down idiot-proofed mess.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,144
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Well at least the Xbox app actually works on Windows 10, so that is why I am sticking to Windows 10. I have PC Game Pass and download many games. It couldn't even download Minecraft at 10 MB.

Also, the Microsoft store couldn't even download iTunes without erroring out. Again, I tried this three separate fresh installs, I spent all day yesterday trying to get Windows 11 to work but no success.

Everything just works flawlessly on Windows 10.

My gaming system is an i7-10700k
NVIDIA RTX 3080 Ti
64 GB of RAM
2 TB NVMe SSD
and three other SSDs.
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
Why are you using the MS Store to install iTunes when you can just get the installer EXE on the web? Maybe it's just me getting old but I don't do app stores, not even on Android.

I just can't stand Windows 10. It was bad in 2015 and got worse with time. A tad better looking but more annoying at the same time. When I replaced the dying Windows 10 work PC with a new laptop running Windows 11 my frustration just ended. I'm perfectly happy with 11.

Everyone complains about the right click menu but I don't see anything wrong with it. The start menu gets hate but it reminds me of the one-click-away simplicity of the old Windows 3.11 program manager. I can't imagine people actually liked live tiles? Candy Crush being force-installed? the nested mess of menus within the start menu? the fact it took over half the screen to accomodate the stupid tiles? The fact you actually need to use Control Panel to make up for Windows 10's limited settings menu?

Oh and my god! the fact it installs updates and reboots your system without permission? I swear that's the one thing I am finally free of in Windows 11. It just shows a notification icon in taskbar and you can select a time to restart and not just a week or a few hours, but even extend the period even longer until YOU are ready. Never again am I losing my place in sites like Reddit threads because the PC just had to restart that time.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
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7,120
Because its easier to manage? I have about 12 apps I install through the Microsoft store, and its easier to do that all in one place vs installing from 12 different websites.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
I used to do app stores back in iOS 6 and Android 2.3, but I just can't today. They tend to filter apps that they assume (incorrectly) are incompatible, require stuff they shouldn't, outright fail to download at all, or force updates down my throat on launch. They also can't allow you to select a specific version of an app say an older, less buggy version that got replaced by a far more buggy updated version. Apple lets you for example download the 'last compatible app' and Play Store also to an extent, meaning they have the option just don't let you choose yourself.

App stores are also dumbing down on a full blown PC or Mac. I save all my apps from time infinitum both Windows, Mac and Android so I don't need to revisit multiple sites to redownload them onto a new PC. Today the PC backups are on OneDrive meaning they're in one place. Barring that, an SD Card or NAS that doesn't use the internet.

I also have a limit on the amount of apps I need. I get them installed and never have to worry. My S20 FE hasn't had an app installed since 2021. OR an update to an app.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
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The Microsoft Store is the worst store on a computer.

Apple's App Store and Play Store are much better. I actually enjoy browsing the App Store on the Mac. It's looks nice and works.

The new MS Store on 11 is just a mess.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
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I usually hate what everyone else loves, including Windows XP, Vista, and 10.
I hate Vista and XP too.

I only like 10 because it saved Windows that was the abomination which was Windows 8.

The only Windows that I loved so much more than macOS was Windows 7. I found it be better than macOS then.
 
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exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
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What's wrong with it? It has the same things the old Windows 10 one did, but IMO easier to look at font size/types of icons
image-68.png


The fact that cut, copy and paste and delete are all on top and just icons. Where is the option for text and icon?

v4-460px-Right-Click-on-a-MacBook-Step-2.jpg


Most deskop OS's have Text for copy or Paste like Linux and macOS.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
I just can't stand Windows 10. It was bad in 2015 and got worse with time. A tad better looking but more annoying at the same time. When I replaced the dying Windows 10 work PC with a new laptop running Windows 11 my frustration just ended. I'm perfectly happy with 11.
Why though? It's the same operating system, with a new settings UI (but don't be afraid, the old crap is still there) and rounded corners.
Oh, and also a a broken task bar with a terribly lagging start menu if you search for stuff.

I really don't get it. I don't know why it got a major version bump in the first place. I'm sure the only reason was bumping hardware requirements to justify selling new copies, as the "Windows will be free forever now" approach didn't work out for MS.

BTW: aren't the store and xbox app the same on 10? I don't remember them to be any different there. They have been just as crap and bad for many years now.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,464
2,692
OBX
Why though? It's the same operating system, with a new settings UI (but don't be afraid, the old crap is still there) and rounded corners.
Oh, and also a a broken task bar with a terribly lagging start menu if you search for stuff.

I really don't get it. I don't know why it got a major version bump in the first place. I'm sure the only reason was bumping hardware requirements to justify selling new copies, as the "Windows will be free forever now" approach didn't work out for MS.

BTW: aren't the store and xbox app the same on 10? I don't remember them to be any different there. They have been just as crap and bad for many years now.
I didn’t think anyone had to outright pay for (retail) Windows since 8.1.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
There's a lot of things about Windows 10 that frustrated me that Windows 11 doesn't.

1. the start menu is a mess of live tiles and nested menus. Nothing one-click away. I've always thought the start menu was stupid from the first instance of it in Windows 95. I always preferred Program Manager with everything one-click away organized in program groups, which I often tiled so literally every app at the time was one click away.

2. The settings UI is so simplistic that you need control panel to do anything. Even if it's possible to do it in Settings, it refuses to allow it (such as setting any static IP it complains the settings are invalid and won't let you save)

3. The updates. My GOD! the updates. IT refuses to wait until you feel it's convenient. It will update whenever it feels that you're in 'inactive hours'. Even if you delay them, it will constantly pop-up messages nagging you to go through with it, even interrupting gameplay



4. It's full of idiot proofing nonsense. It has no way to convey what an error actually is; 'that didn't work'. '[app name] was closed due to high memory usage' (32GB RAM means nothing to you?), 'Can't connect to this network' (why?!) and so on.

5. The UI has not changed since 2015. It's 2022 Microsoft.

6. It will be EOL in October 2025, and I'm not sure if that means I can still use it and accept the risks (like Windows 7) or if they will force me to move on or limit the OS in any way, since they can do a lot of other annoying things like push updates forcefully. Who says that it won't just cease to boot?

7. I HATE the Metro UI, which remnants of it still exist in Windows 10. Windows 11 feels more like we're going back to Skeuomorphism in the future which I have high hopes for. I am sick to death of flat UI design. Windows 10 will remain flat until its EOL date.

As for Windows 11's right click menu, compared with Windows 10's, it's far more visible. The spacing and font is just easier for me to read. Icons such as copy/paste and so on are pretty standard today; as ubiquitous as the floppy disk save icon. I find Windows 10's harder to read and has too many things in it.

Windows 11 is patient. It wants to update right now on my home PC, but never annoys me. Just places an icon in the system tray (well it's gone now since I delayed updates indefinitely until I feel it's the right time--something you can do!) and NEVER pops-up messages. It boots faster (literally 5 seconds and you're at the login screen), it feels smoother (closer to iOS/MacOS) and I LOVE the start menu, a more modern Program Manager, and with every app (that's not pinned to the taskbar, because I hate desktop clutter) literally one tap or click away, as it was in Windows 3.1. Also, no CPU cycles or lag caused by animated tiles which I never liked since Windows 8.

The Xbox app and store are close, the Store on 11 will offer Android apps (but I have Phone Link so why?) but I don't use the store at all. I don't need app stores. The Xbox app has the same UI (both got the same updates in 10 and 11) but it seems completely borked in 11, with install or purchase issues. Not sure what's happening there. In my case it's probably because I blocked the updates and servers for Microsoft at the router from the time I actually had to use Windows 10.

I would prefer there being no app stores on desktop/laptop OSs though. It's still idiot proofing and we never needed an app store on Windows 7. Why today? Are people just afraid to learn anymore how to use a PC? I grew up having to put the darned things together and install over 7 system disks to just get CP/M going. But I loved learning about how it worked. Are people just not able to enjoy that today?

NOW that isn't to say that Win11 doesn't have annoying things about it:

1. Still cannot unpin the store icon from taskbar. I am not an idiot, Microsoft, I know how to install apps. I don't need a freaking app store!

2. They removed the ability to never hide system tray icons behind the taskbar corner overflow icon. I want all my icons showing all the time. This was one thing that existed in Windows 10. Even if you choose to tell it to unhide them all, they eventually revert to hiding certain apps (such as Teams) behind the overflow when it updates.

3. Cortana still exists (why?)

4. Widgets fail to load/update their info randomly. Often I have to mouse over them to force the weather to update. At work, the widgets bar won't even load. It just sits at a 'skeleton page' and the weather icon is just a grey sun/cloud and never shows data. Hoping for a future fix there.

5. Still no 1x1 compatibility with Xbox titles for PC. I was hoping with Windows 11 introducing DirectX 12 built into the OS, that we'd finally have the entire app/games from Xbox offered via Game Pass Ultimate for PC as well.
 
Last edited:

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Windows 11 is patient. It wants to update right now on my home PC, but never annoys me. Just places an icon in the system tray (well it's gone now since I delayed updates indefinitely until I feel it's the right time--something you can do!) and NEVER pops-up messages.
Windows 11 force updated my system after putting it to sleep after work multiple times already. It just killed everything I had open, didn't care, and updated itself. I neither downloaded the update before that or told it to do so.

It's just as bad as Windows 10 in that regard for me.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,464
2,692
OBX
There's a lot of things about Windows 10 that frustrated me that Windows 11 doesn't.

1. the start menu is a mess of live tiles and nested menus. Nothing one-click away. I've always thought the start menu was stupid from the first instance of it in Windows 95. I always preferred Program Manager with everything one-click away organized in program groups, which I often tiled so literally every app at the time was one click away.

2. The settings UI is so simplistic that you need control panel to do anything. Even if it's possible to do it in Settings, it refuses to allow it (such as setting any static IP it complains the settings are invalid and won't let you save)

3. The updates. My GOD! the updates. IT refuses to wait until you feel it's convenient. It will update whenever it feels that you're in 'inactive hours'. Even if you delay them, it will constantly pop-up messages nagging you to go through with it, even interrupting gameplay



4. It's full of idiot proofing nonsense. It has no way to convey what an error actually is; 'that didn't work'. '[app name] was closed due to high memory usage' (32GB RAM means nothing to you?), 'Can't connect to this network' (why?!) and so on.

5. The UI has not changed since 2015. It's 2022 Microsoft.

6. It will be EOL in October 2025, and I'm not sure if that means I can still use it and accept the risks (like Windows 7) or if they will force me to move on or limit the OS in any way, since they can do a lot of other annoying things like push updates forcefully. Who says that it won't just cease to boot?

7. I HATE the Metro UI, which remnants of it still exist in Windows 10. Windows 11 feels more like we're going back to Skeuomorphism in the future which I have high hopes for. I am sick to death of flat UI design. Windows 10 will remain flat until its EOL date.

As for Windows 11's right click menu, compared with Windows 10's, it's far more visible. The spacing and font is just easier for me to read. Icons such as copy/paste and so on are pretty standard today; as ubiquitous as the floppy disk save icon. I find Windows 10's harder to read and has too many things in it.

Windows 11 is patient. It wants to update right now on my home PC, but never annoys me. Just places an icon in the system tray (well it's gone now since I delayed updates indefinitely until I feel it's the right time--something you can do!) and NEVER pops-up messages. It boots faster (literally 5 seconds and you're at the login screen), it feels smoother (closer to iOS/MacOS) and I LOVE the start menu, a more modern Program Manager, and with every app (that's not pinned to the taskbar, because I hate desktop clutter) literally one tap or click away, as it was in Windows 3.1. Also, no CPU cycles or lag caused by animated tiles which I never liked since Windows 8.

The Xbox app and store are close, the Store on 11 will offer Android apps (but I have Phone Link so why?) but I don't use the store at all. I don't need app stores. The Xbox app has the same UI (both got the same updates in 10 and 11) but it seems completely borked in 11, with install or purchase issues. Not sure what's happening there. In my case it's probably because I blocked the updates and servers for Microsoft at the router from the time I actually had to use Windows 10.

I would prefer there being no app stores on desktop/laptop OSs though. It's still idiot proofing and we never needed an app store on Windows 7. Why today? Are people just afraid to learn anymore how to use a PC? I grew up having to put the darned things together and install over 7 system disks to just get CP/M going. But I loved learning about how it worked. Are people just not able to enjoy that today?

NOW that isn't to say that Win11 doesn't have annoying things about it:

1. Still cannot unpin the store icon from taskbar. I am not an idiot, Microsoft, I know how to install apps. I don't need a freaking app store!

2. They removed the ability to never hide system tray icons behind the taskbar corner overflow icon. I want all my icons showing all the time. This was one thing that existed in Windows 10. Even if you choose to tell it to unhide them all, they eventually revert to hiding certain apps (such as Teams) behind the overflow when it updates.

3. Cortana still exists (why?)

4. Widgets fail to load/update their info randomly. Often I have to mouse over them to force the weather to update. At work, the widgets bar won't even load. It just sits at a 'skeleton page' and the weather icon is just a grey sun/cloud and never shows data. Hoping for a future fix there.

5. Still no 1x1 compatibility with Xbox titles for PC. I was hoping with Windows 11 introducing DirectX 12 built into the OS, that we'd finally have the entire app/games from Xbox offered via Game Pass Ultimate for PC as well.
Number 5 is probably never going to happen. Developers can write too close to the metal* on the Xbox for there to be “easy” porting to all the various PC configs in the wild.


*there are API’s (like the storage one) that exists on xbox but don’t (didn’t) have PC equivalents as well.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
You have to tell it to delay updates or, like 10, it WILL restart 'outside of active hours'. What you can do, is tell it to delay however long you want. Something you don't get so much choice in on Windows 10. It relies more on the user telling it to do so, and I like that. No more of this 'automation' dren that Windows 10 tried to promote. But you don't get constantly annoyed if you delay updates the way Windows 10 will annoy you if you 'delaye updates for two weeks' which is all you get on 10, unless they finally changed it. Windows 11 you can pause two weeks, extend it one more week, then another week, and even have a setting to NOT restart automatically if you like:

Screenshot 2022-05-15 070543.png

I have grown accustomed to telling Windows to pause any updates if there's mission-critical stuff I can't lose (especially at work) though. I did it in Windows 10 but had to finish by the two-week mark at the time or it'd reboot whenever it felt like, and it still nagged me often to update ('let's cross this one off your list') Windows 11 can be delayed infinitum with updates. If two weeks ain't long enough, you can extend it one week, one month, and so on. You also get more control over metered connections with updates. You don't have to be on a metered connection, and if you hate updates as much as I do, you can tell it to treat any network as metered, and choose settings that don't update a darned thing at all. Windows 10 didn't give that much control over that--it still updated stuff that it thought didn't impact metered connections.
 
Last edited:

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,144
7,120
Why though? It's the same operating system, with a new settings UI (but don't be afraid, the old crap is still there) and rounded corners.
Oh, and also a a broken task bar with a terribly lagging start menu if you search for stuff.

I really don't get it. I don't know why it got a major version bump in the first place. I'm sure the only reason was bumping hardware requirements to justify selling new copies, as the "Windows will be free forever now" approach didn't work out for MS.

BTW: aren't the store and xbox app the same on 10? I don't remember them to be any different there. They have been just as crap and bad for many years now.
I also experienced activation issues after I performed a BIOS update. There was a BIOS update specifically for "Windows 11 support" so I was hoping some of my issues would be resolved. Nope! Not only that, Windows 11 would NOT activate after it even though it was activated just before the update. It is a widespread issue. I would have gladly paid for a new license to just get it working, but apparently, they don't even sell them officially and I didn't want to buy those $30 keys from a random website. That was another reason I downgraded to Windows 10.

The fact is, nothing works in Windows 11. I am not sure how people can use it, when a fresh install experiences issues 20 minutes in after I make sure ALL updates are applied.

The ONLY thing I liked about Windows 11 was the update to multi monitor support. Being back on Windows 10 is an absolute pain with my windows constantly moving to other screens.

And yes, the store and Xbox are app the very same as on 10, which is why it makes no sense why 11 is broken so badly. I tried about 10 different workarounds posted online, some of them involve powershell commands and registry setting changes. This is NOT how you should make app stores and programs.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
The ONLY thing I liked about Windows 11 was the update to multi monitor support. Being back on Windows 10 is an absolute pain with my windows constantly moving to other screens.
They didn't fix it in 11, it's just a little less terrible than in 10. I still have to re-arrange everything every now and then after using the laptop alone...

It's also something they still have to fix in 10, it's unacceptable that's it's in the state it has been for years.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
1,952
As for Windows 11's right click menu, compared with Windows 10's, it's far more visible. The spacing and font is just easier for me to read. Icons such as copy/paste and so on are pretty standard today; as ubiquitous as the floppy disk save icon. I find Windows 10's harder to read and has too many things in it.
I quite disagree on this. It annoyed me greatly as to why the copy/paste/delete were the only ones on top and also the ones with no text.

After all the word "context menu" has the word text and there should be a option of text and icon too like the other ones. For example refresh still has text and an icon and we all know what the refresh icon looks like.

Why the inconsistency?

Don't even me started on File explorer. I found pre-Windows 11 File Explorer to be better than Finder. But now in Windows 11, Finder is better just because I set the option to see text and icons.

win11_file_explorer_overview.jpg


1652657932773.png
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
I don't understand how anyone can stand Windows 10. I have had no issues whatsoever with 11. Windows 10 was an annoying little fahrbot!

That said, I NEVER EVER update BIOS. I had a custom rig I built a long time ago with neon lights and LCD front panel display and all, brand new MSi motherboard bricked by a failed BIOS update attempt. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Once you brick a BIOS chip ain't nothing going to save it.

I have had no issues activating VMs running 11, or any install ever. I even made Vista OEM product keys work with the darned thing.

The right click menu adapts to the app you're using. You will see very different settings in file explorer vs. the desktop vs. Edge vs. Firefox. I quite like it personally. Again, maybe they're designing this for people such as myself? I also loved TouchWiz, still use it. Everyone online hated TouchWiz. I loved the Nature aesthetic and found nothing wrong with it. But hey...

As for file explorer, it's the same minus the cluttered ribbon IMO. I also loved the more skeuo icons.
 
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