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Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,474
2
2nd Star to the Right
I've installed it on my MBP 2.2 via Virtual Box. Nice that the two-finger right-click seems to work normally... but, sorry to say, I'm really not excited about Win7. On one hand, it still feels very Windows-esque, only it's visually much more slick. Yet, again like when I first tried XP after some time on Win2k, things are just not where you'd expect them - it doesn't feel intuitive to me, and I see lots of things that just seem like Johnnie-come-lately copies of long-term existing OS X ideas. I would have liked to have seen some actual new ideas, but the whole thing still seems tied to the old legacy Windows 'style' down to the slightly jittery cursor arrow. Still feels like an old Cadillac with all the electric options and pretty sheet metal covering up old wiring and yesterday's technology. It's just an impression. The whole thing still feels dated and old, with a new coat of paint. Other than cheaper hardware in some cases, I still think I'd have to recommend Mac to my friends... the Mac interface is just more 'connected' and feels more natural. It's a hard thing to really explain, but once you've been on it for awhile, and all the little things you don't really think about become part of the way you work, it makes Windows, even Win7 feel frustrating to use.

It's just my $0.02. It's nice to know it's an improvement, but it's nowhere near any kind of reason to switch from Mac back to Windows in my book.

I'll keep trying it out with some legacy Windows software I've got and see how it settles in.

BTW: I don't get what all the fuss over wallpaper is. I certainly tend to use my own digital shots a lot, but lordy, there's a lot of stuff out there on the web for the asking, or the taking. Who limits themselves to the wallpaper/jpgs that come stock with an OS anyway? They're cool for the first week or so... but they're the first thing I usually get rid of...:)

Do you really think it's fair to speak to responsiveness and user interface issues running in VirtualBox?

I read your impressions and my feeling on this is that you went into this with your opinions already formed. That's okay if that's your thing, but then let's not pretend that you're really giving another OS a fair shake.

What aspects do you feel are cheaper imitations? Some people get this sense because they don't understand that even though windowing interfaces can be similiar in appearance, their underlying interaction and manipulation paradigm can be extremely different. If you understand the way the OS handles objects and the reasoning behind the way it was designed, you can adapt yourself to be more efficient in your interactions with it. This isn't to say that there aren't inconsistencies in any interface. Just that this is the first reaction of anyone who spends time only in one OS.

Long time Windows users will often say the same things you said. I'm willing to be your first reaction to the people who tell you things are unintuitive is that they're probably not making much of an effort. Are you making that an effort? Or are you being lazy and dismissive?

The fuss about the default wallpaper is that it's the default wallpaper.
 

dsnort

macrumors 68000
Jan 28, 2006
1,904
68
In persona non grata
Do you really think it's fair to speak to responsiveness and user interface issues running in VirtualBox?

I may have missed something, but I don't see anything in his post that speaks to responsiveness. And does the user interface somehow change when NOT running in Virtual Box?

This has been my biggest question about Windows 7. I had a few stability issues with XP, but really, not that many crashes. It was plenty fast on good equipment. What I disliked most about XP, and Vista, is how clutzy and cludgy it is to work with, a real "reach around your right butt cheek to scratch your left ear" kind of thing.

Has that improved?
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,100
930
In my imagination
I am drooling to put this on my future Mac Pro and HP netbook.

I love software that runs like a dream... and I've been hearing a lot of Pros and reading a lot of good things about Win 7.

I'll keep reading this thread to learn more.
 

klas

macrumors newbie
Feb 28, 2008
25
0
I can't seem to find the answer to my question. I am just curious if Mini DP -> HDMI will carry audio in Windows 7 when using with mini. I know it's not implemented in OSX.
 

Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,474
2
2nd Star to the Right
I may have missed something, but I don't see anything in his post that speaks to responsiveness. And does the user interface somehow change when NOT running in Virtual Box?

This has been my biggest question about Windows 7. I had a few stability issues with XP, but really, not that many crashes. It was plenty fast on good equipment. What I disliked most about XP, and Vista, is how clutzy and cludgy it is to work with, a real "reach around your right butt cheek to scratch your left ear" kind of thing.

Has that improved?

Yeah, I read "jittery mouse" and in skimming instead of reading, I mashed up pdxflint there with the typical fanboy. My bad.

I'm having a rough time doing certain things, particularly accessing configuration options. Until recently, I wasn't sure if this was my unfamiliarity with the system or if it was bad design. I'm starting to believe its the latter.

Still, the interface itself is a huge improvement over XP.
 

wesrk

macrumors 6502a
Nov 4, 2007
660
1
AARRGGggg!! I wanted to try it, since I only use XP, but my optical drive issue is back and can't even burn the image.
 

illegallydead

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2007
714
0
Colorado!!!
AARRGGggg!! I wanted to try it, since I only use XP, but my optical drive issue is back and can't even burn the image.

You may consider attempting to get it to boot from a USB drive... Something worth looking in to if you really want to try this out... I know it's a headache to get to work, but still. If all else fails, just get an external drive. My superdrive started acting up and my new USB disk drive positively SCREAMS burning disks compared to any notebook-grade slot-loading crap out there ;)

I can't seem to find the answer to my question. I am just curious if Mini DP -> HDMI will carry audio in Windows 7 when using with mini. I know it's not implemented in OSX.

I think this is a hardware issue, not necessarily software. The question is if Apple built in an audio connection between the sound card and the video card. I would assume not, however; after all, if they were to go to the trouble of linking these components it would seem silly not to support the audio part of the connection in OSX...
I don't have a UniBook though (and am too lazy to look it up), so I cannot comment on if there is any way to make this work
 

wesrk

macrumors 6502a
Nov 4, 2007
660
1
You may consider attempting to get it to boot from a USB drive... Something worth looking in to if you really want to try this out... I know it's a headache to get to work, but still. If all else fails, just get an external drive. My superdrive started acting up and my new USB disk drive positively SCREAMS burning disks compared to any notebook-grade slot-loading crap out there ;)

I might just go ahead and to that. I'm thinking of replacing the optical drive with a second hard drive. I just wanted to burn the disc to do it in a more proper way via bootcamp, but I'm just going to google this and see how to install it from a USB.
Not only for testing win 7, but also to install XP before/after/instead of, since I need a few apps that only run under windows.

PS. I read somewhere in this board but can't find the thread right now, that you can just extract the image into a new partition and just boot from it... is that possible? just asking.
 

ditzy

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2007
1,719
180
Do you really think it's fair to speak to responsiveness and user interface issues running in VirtualBox?


Long time Windows users will often say the same things you said. I'm willing to be your first reaction to the people who tell you things are unintuitive is that they're probably not making much of an effort. Are you making that an effort? Or are you being lazy and dismissive?

I start this stating that I like win 7, not as much as OSX, but believe it to be a huge improvement on Vista.
I think your Virtual Box statement is fair play. I think you have to be running an OS natively to get the best out of it, if you not you should be aware that you are running a crippled version of it.
But your point about intuitiveness isn't right. If something is intuitive it doesn't take effort. If you have to put a lot of effort into learning how to do it, it isn't intuitive.
 

Andrmgic

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2007
531
1
Imho, the reason that virtualbox (and parallels and vmware) impressions should be taken with a grain of salt is because this time around, aero actually changes the user experience rather than just glossing things up.

Desktop preview, mouse over preview, the ability to adjust the transparency of the windows and the taskbar, etc. all depend on the ability to run aero, which isn't currently possible in a virtualized environment.

That said, it should give you some idea of performance, but you won't get the whole picture without a native install :cool:

One of the big things they've done this time around is drastically reduce the memory footprint required by the aero interface, so it is kind of a shame not to have it on :D

Here's my win 7 desktop:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2199/desktopoii.jpg

I just did a url link since this forum doesn't auto-thumbnail.
 

illegallydead

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2007
714
0
Colorado!!!
PS. I read somewhere in this board but can't find the thread right now, that you can just extract the image into a new partition and just boot from it... is that possible? just asking.

Not sure. I have not heard of that being done, but I don't see why it wouldn't work... You might have to fight with the disk in Disk Utility to get that space back when you are done, however...
 

Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,474
2
2nd Star to the Right
I start this stating that I like win 7, not as much as OSX, but believe it to be a huge improvement on Vista.
I think your Virtual Box statement is fair play. I think you have to be running an OS natively to get the best out of it, if you not you should be aware that you are running a crippled version of it.
But your point about intuitiveness isn't right. If something is intuitive it doesn't take effort. If you have to put a lot of effort into learning how to do it, it isn't intuitive.

No, I don't think the responsiveness thing was fair because I was confusing you for someone else and directed an attitude at you that shouldn't have been. By the way, I'm sorry about that.

I do think the intuitiveness thing IS fair. When I first started using OS X, it took me a long time to figure out how to do quite a few basic things. From anchored shift selection to keyboard opening files in Finder, there are LOT of things that OS X just does differently that are not expected, predictable behaviors, despite the insistence of many that this is the way that things are meant to be. Eventually, I learned them, but it's not because they were more intuitive, it's because I had more of an open mind and willingness to learn. There's a lot of Windows fans who will complain and never internalize and adapt to another way of doing things.
 

runebinder

macrumors 6502a
Apr 2, 2009
904
121
Nottingham, UK
Unfortunately I've found 7 too flakey games wise, sound cuts out completely, games freeze up. Have ended kbmgr process, updated drivers for graphics and sound and disabled wireless, still no joy. UT3 and Grid are still problematic.

So have gone to Win XP SP3 and the games run fine in there with no glitches.

The only reason I want to run Windows on the MBP is because of gaming, figure for everything else I want to use Leopard as I'm learning the O/S and main reason for having bought an MBP. Still got 7 on my PC though
 

NoSmokingBandit

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2008
1,579
3
Thats ood. I've been using my Win 7 (7000 build) partition to game on and it has been perfect. Crysis, Mirrors Edge, COD4 all work great.
 

Tuneboy

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2009
5
0
2 finger right click is working now but I haven't been able to get n wifi going, only g.

How have you made 2-finger click work? With me it is not even an option in the Boot Camp configuration anymore, if I had known this, I would have stayed with the 7000 just a bit longer before going to 7100.

Adjusting screen brightness is also not possible anymore but i believe this has somtething to do with my Nvidia drivers, no?
 

NoSmokingBandit

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2008
1,579
3
Strange. Are you uisng 32 or 64 bit? Also what hardware are you running it on?

I was using the x64 flavor. My rig:
Gigabyte ga-p35-ds3l mobo
E6750 2.66ghz Core2duo
xfx 8600gt 128mb (yes, it sucks for gaming)
4gb OCZ Reaper ram

I was using the onboard ALC888 audio too.

The best thing about installing 7 on this machine is that i didnt have to hunt for a single driver, everything worked perfectly after installing and updating once.
 

Signal-11

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,474
2
2nd Star to the Right
Anyone else having DHCP issues on Ethernet? Thing keeps dropping out randomly. Wrestled with it for hours until I just got sick of it and assigned a manual IP. Would prefer DHCP. No problems on the earlier builds, just 7100.
 

bindigok

macrumors regular
May 14, 2007
113
0
I quickly scrolled through to see if anyone had fixed the no-sound issue. I am running Windows 7 through Parallels, but today when I ran Windows update it fixed the sound. I now have sound on Windows 7 when running it through Parallels (oh and I'm running the 64 bit version).

So far it is much better than XP or Vista, but still I hardly ever use it. Mac OS has almost everything I need - I only need Windows when I need to convert something for work like a microscope image.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
How have you made 2-finger click work? With me it is not even an option in the Boot Camp configuration anymore, if I had known this, I would have stayed with the 7000 just a bit longer before going to 7100.

Adjusting screen brightness is also not possible anymore but i believe this has somtething to do with my Nvidia drivers, no?
It just started working for me after the last MS update. I noticed that the trackpad is not the BC panel either.
 

cleanup

macrumors 68030
Jun 26, 2005
2,643
10
Toronto
For all those who have issues/problems with burning a DVD or booting, use the better option:

Download a disk image mounter. Google "DAEMON Tools Lite."

Ta-da. Honestly, optical media is so yesterday!

Anyways, I'm LOVING Windows 7. It makes my PC oodles faster. You wouldn't know this thing is actually just a 2.2 Core Duo (notice the lack of '2') running at 2.6, with only 2 gigs of ValueRAM. It blazes through things. My friend's netbook runs it like a dream, with superfluous visual effects and window transparency and all. It runs faster on my MacBook than Leopard does.

Honestly, it's hard to keep loving Mac OS X so much when Windows 7 is this good. It's still Windows-ey, which may be a turn-off for some, but as long as you know your way around Windows, 7 is a godsend. It's a big operating system, for sure (in terms of HDD size), but it's blazing fast. And it multitasks brilliantly. XP always seemed to lag whenever you tried to do more than one thing at once. Vista was a bit better but in general, Vista was slow as molasses. Windows 7 so far has done everything better than XP or Leopard, that I've seen. For those who don't need the fancy-pants-ooh-look-a-time-machine features of Leopard, 7 is a much more viable solution, IMHO. And it was nice of Microsoft to offer it free and with updates until way after the official release date. I'll be picking up the retail version for sure.
 

Tuneboy

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2009
5
0
It just started working for me after the last MS update. I noticed that the trackpad is not the BC panel either.

I did all Updates, but still, no 2-finger rightclick, and still, no way of adjusting the backlight brightness... This way it's really not nice to work with this way (getting blind from the very bright LED backlight, not being able to right-click anything...)
 

runebinder

macrumors 6502a
Apr 2, 2009
904
121
Nottingham, UK
I did all Updates, but still, no 2-finger rightclick, and still, no way of adjusting the backlight brightness... This way it's really not nice to work with this way (getting blind from the very bright LED backlight, not being able to right-click anything...)

Weird, I had no issues with the tap to click and 2 finger tap to right click in 7, and had the option to set it in bootcamp control panel.

Did you install directly via the disk? If so try http://www.speedyshare.com/404462147.html, copy the bootcamp folder from the disk to the desktop, replace the bootcamp and bootcamp64 msi's from the download in the link and then run the set up file, worked perfectly for me
 
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