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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. Windows has always been a bit of a mess and Windows 10 is no better in that regard. MacOS is far more coherent. The command line experience is so bad on Windows in comparison to the Mac, Microsoft added the WSL Linux command line. It's not exactly seamless to use though. Dev tools like git are much nicer to use on a Mac. The built in apps like mail, calendar and notes are much nicer on MacOS. The iMessage integration is not available on Windows 10. I am unaware of a Windows equivalent to the keychain app. Home networking seems much easier on MacOS too.

Windows has two major advantages, games and much better hardware choices. The Pro version also has the built in ability to run Linux in a VM which is what I will do if I switch from a Mac.

Windows Credential Manager would be the similar function to keychain as it manages your Windows Credentials and Web Credentials, but I prefer LastPass and use it on my Macs and PC.

I prefer Windows Mail or Outlook to Apple Mail, and use Outlook on my Mac, iPhone, and PC, but personal preference.

Calander App isn't that great on either platform. Fantastical on my Macs, One Calendar on my PC.

OneNote better than Apple notes and use it on both platforms. But again everyone has their preferences.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
Windows Credential Manager would be the similar function to keychain as it manages your Windows Credentials and Web Credentials, but I prefer LastPass and use it on my Macs and PC.

I prefer Windows Mail or Outlook to Apple Mail, and use Outlook on my Mac, iPhone, and PC, but personal preference.

Calander App isn't that great on either platform. Fantastical on my Macs, One Calendar on my PC.

OneNote better than Apple notes and use it on both platforms. But again everyone has their preferences.

I have OneNote on my Mac an iOS device. It is a good app but for quick notes I find the Apple app faster to use. I have used Outlook on Windows in various corporate jobs for about 20 years, I really don’t like it very much. I wil check out Windows Credential Manager but I mostly use Chrome on Windows, does it work with Chrome?
 

Mikael H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2014
864
539
It is a good app but for quick notes I find the Apple app faster to use.
This. To me that goes for Mail too, and for that matter for pretty much all native apps I use:
The main tasks of a computer are to help you get your things done, and to stay out of your way while doing so. Snappy operation is a huge part of that; not having to wait for the computer to finish doing who-knows-what during app startup, or worse: during regular work.

Based on my limited subset of applications in day-to-day use, the only things that keep me waiting in macOS are crappy Electron apps that load half a gigabyte of crap to provide a chat client and similar. In Windows, most of the experience simply isn't snappy. The system insists on not getting out of my way, and in addition there's this crazy paradigm that anything apparently can decide to steal focus from the active window at any time.

That said, I can't think of anything I couldn't do in Windows at a pinch, but I simply prefer not to.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
MacOS is far more coherent.
There is a consistency that windows lacks, to be sure.

The command line experience is so bad on Windows in comparison to the Mac, Microsoft added the WSL Linux command line.
I don't mind the cmd line, but having the linux subsystem to run commands is a plus. A couple of years ago Thurott had interviewed an MS engineer stating that they're working on overhauling the command prompt, but sadly I've seen nothing much come of that.

The built in apps like mail, calendar and notes are much nicer on MacOS
I use outlook and like that but i do miss the macos Mail app. I also like macOS' notes app, perhaps I'll transition over to onenote for my day to day notes that I jot down.

The iMessage integration is not available on Windows 10.
I completely agree, this is something that I miss as well, though I've adjust as I have my phone next me. Yet it was so much better typing messages on my laptop then my phone.

I am unaware of a Windows equivalent to the keychain app.
If you're talking about password management, then I'd say there are plenty of apps available. I use 1Password, there are others of course.

Windows has two major advantages, games and much better hardware choices. The Pro version also has the built in ability to run Linux in a VM which is what I will do if I switch from a Mac.
Subjective to be sure, but Windows runs more apps, better and you have more control over the system. Windows handles legacy hardware a heck of a lot better and its far easier to get drivers for hardware. I'm not down on macOS, but it is locked down in some respects, as Apple doesn't give you many choices. Also its not all rainbows and unicorns in windows land as well. MS has messed a fair amount up on their own and the UWP/Win32 thing is a headache imo.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
About that idea of making Windows more Linux like.

Wouldn't it be easier for MS, to just release their own Linux Desktop Distro?
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
I have OneNote on my Mac an iOS device. It is a good app but for quick notes I find the Apple app faster to use. I have used Outlook on Windows in various corporate jobs for about 20 years, I really don’t like it very much. I wil check out Windows Credential Manager but I mostly use Chrome on Windows, does it work with Chrome?

I am not sure if the Windows Credential Manager can be made to work with Chrome or not. I have never really looked into it. Mostly I use LastPass because it is cross-platform and allows you to share certain logins with others. There some I share with my wife or family and others with business associates.

Even if not using Outlook, I prefer Microsoft Mail to Apple Mail. I like the Focused Inbox concept that allows you to separate non-junk email into Focused for immediate attention and non-Focused for second-tier importance, without it being "junk" with the other garbage. Speaking of "Junk mail" I find Apple Mail does a terrible job at filtering "spam." It seems to allow way more Spam mail that should be blocked at the server level through and also no matter how many times I move certain emails to Junk, they still appear in my inbox time after time after time. Additionally, it has no means to "block" a sender without having to create a Rule. Microsoft Mail mostly mirrors Outlook, so whatever block and rules you set in Outlook, should just be mirrored in what Microsoft Mail allows through. I have tried SpamSieve and some other add-ons to try to improve Apple Mail, but I still don't like it. Again, personal preference. Everyone has their own favorites and reasons why. Whatever works best for the individual :)

Speaking of Focused, I also prefer Windows use of Focused Priority for Notifications. I like the system of only allowing Notifications in your focused list to give you a visual/audible notification while the rest remain silent in notification center until you open it and read them. I find I get too many unimportant notifications in MacOS/IOS.

For just a quick note in Windows, if it doesn't have to be shared or cross-platform, I use Sticky Note in Windows. But if you are using both platforms, and I do, I find a cross-platform app like One Note or Evernote is often preferable for my needs.
 
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koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
I think all the companies worldwide who need backwards compatibility will disagree with you :)
Just make Windows applications run on Linux core, without any performance difference.

Already this is happening with games on Linux.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
This. To me that goes for Mail too, and for that matter for pretty much all native apps I use:
The main tasks of a computer are to help you get your things done, and to stay out of your way while doing so. Snappy operation is a huge part of that; not having to wait for the computer to finish doing who-knows-what during app startup, or worse: during regular work.

Based on my limited subset of applications in day-to-day use, the only things that keep me waiting in macOS are crappy Electron apps that load half a gigabyte of crap to provide a chat client and similar. In Windows, most of the experience simply isn't snappy. The system insists on not getting out of my way, and in addition there's this crazy paradigm that anything apparently can decide to steal focus from the active window at any time.

That said, I can't think of anything I couldn't do in Windows at a pinch, but I simply prefer not to.

I agree completely, there is just more friction using Windows. As for Electron apps, a great example of how bad they are is comparing Electron text editor like VS Code or Atom to Sublime.
[doublepost=1548942868][/doublepost]
I am not sure if the Windows Credential Manager can be made to work with Chrome or not. I have never really looked into it. Mostly I use LastPass because it is cross-platform and allows you to share certain logins with others. There some I share with my wife or family and others with business associates.

Even if not using Outlook, I prefer Microsoft Mail to Apple Mail. I like the Focused Inbox concept that allows you to separate non-junk email into Focused for immediate attention and non-Focused for second-tier importance, without it being "junk" with the other garbage. Speaking of "Junk mail" I find Apple Mail does a terrible job at filtering "spam." It seems to allow way more Spam mail that should be blocked at the server level through and also no matter how many times I move certain emails to Junk, they still appear in my inbox time after time after time. Additionally, it has no means to "block" a sender without having to create a Rule. Microsoft Mail mostly mirrors Outlook, so whatever block and rules you set in Outlook, should just be mirrored in what Microsoft Mail allows through. I have tried SpamSieve and some other add-ons to try to improve Apple Mail, but I still don't like it. Again, personal preference. Everyone has their own favorites and reasons why. Whatever works best for the individual :)

Speaking of Focused, I also prefer Windows use of Focused Priority for Notifications. I like the system of only allowing Notifications in your focused list to give you a visual/audible notification while the rest remain silent in notification center until you open it and read them. I find I get too many unimportant notifications in MacOS/IOS.

For just a quick note in Windows, if it doesn't have to be shared or cross-platform, I use Sticky Note in Windows. But if you are using both platforms, and I do, I find a cross-platform app like One Note or Evernote is often preferable for my needs.

I use both platforms but mostly MacOS (and iOS). I haven’t had issues with spam filtering in Apple Mail but I don’t use the client for spam filtering or rules. I do that all on the backend.
 

AndyMacAndMic

macrumors 65816
May 25, 2017
1,110
1,669
Western Europe
Just make Windows applications run on Linux core, without any performance difference.

Already this is happening with games on Linux.

"Just make Windows applications run on Linux". Do you have any idea how much work it is and how much money it costs to rewrite all those millions of programs?

And what would be the advantage for MS and all software companies? Apart from a lot of work (rewriting software) and spending a lot of money, not much gain.

Also all the millions of companies worldwide have to switch operating systems? Any idea how much work and trouble and costs that involves? And for what? To do exactly the same as they did before?

Nice idea, but not very practical I am afraid ;)
 
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ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
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Just make Windows applications run on Linux core, without any performance difference.

Already this is happening with games on Linux.

They would rather make Unix/Linux apps run on the NT core. The driver for WSL and pre-canned Linux VMs on Windows was to win back all the software developers who have switched to Macs.
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,103
8,658
Any place but here or there....
Windows is not bad at all.

I learned a little about W10 today, and decided I will be cross platform. There’s too much Mac/iOS software that does not have Windows counterparts.

I am okay with this for now. If and when I ever completely walk away from Macs, I’ll be ahead of the game.

The meh training was the icing on the cake for me. So I respect Microsoft, Asus etc. for actually solving some major solutions for cooling and overall design of their hardware. I might not be Lisa Gade, but this experience has taught me to be open-minded about tech, including carrying on with Macs too.

So it’s baby steps into Windows for me. I am confident knowing that I will have more options if I finally jump ship, or if one system goes down.

For me, there is no wrong decision now, and I like that. Older Macs & iDevices, and newer PCs? I can live with that.

I thank everyone for being patient and so open with me. I will post in this forum because I keep learning and appreciating the knowledge, support and info. And no, I won’t let up on Cook and co. for continuing to release questionably built and tested hardware and bug-riddled software. Why not dominate Hollywood with hardware & software everyone wants to use to make that original content everyone wants to see?

I dunno...
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
Windows is not bad at all.

I learned a little about W10 today, and decided I will be cross platform. There’s too much Mac/iOS software that does not have Windows counterparts.

I am okay with this for now. If and when I ever completely walk away from Macs, I’ll be ahead of the game.

The meh training was the icing on the cake for me. So I respect Microsoft, Asus etc. for actually solving some major solutions for cooling and overall design of their hardware. I might not be Lisa Gade, but this experience has taught me to be open-minded about tech, including carrying on with Macs too.

So it’s baby steps into Windows for me. I am confident knowing that I will have more options if I finally jump ship, or if one system goes down.

For me, there is no wrong decision now, and I like that. Older Macs & iDevices, and newer PCs? I can live with that.

I thank everyone for being patient and so open with me. I will post in this forum because I keep learning and appreciating the knowledge, support and info. And no, I won’t let up on Cook and co. for continuing to release questionably built and tested hardware and bug-riddled software. Why not dominate Hollywood with hardware & software everyone wants to use to make that original content everyone wants to see?

I dunno...

Locking yourself into a single platform is a "fools errand" what's truly important is your content :) Apple your locked in & locked out :rolleyes: Personally I'm a big boy, if I want to push the limits I don't want any restrictions, absolutely no controls.

Blasting past 300 kph, I don't want any limiters, overheating, warning lights, or excuses. What I do want is more horsepower, more RPM, more performance, no BS. At 322 kph your really on song, seriously so :p

Q-6
 
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Thysanoptera

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2018
910
873
Pittsburgh, PA
I learned a little about W10 today, and decided I will be cross platform. There’s too much Mac/iOS software that does not have Windows counterparts.

Let us know what software exactly you're talking about, I'm sure we can find an equivalent. My experience is exactly the opposite, MacOS is missing a lot of Windows software, or the MacOS versions are severely limited. Outlook for Mac doesn't have auto archive or mailbox cleanup tools, Quicken is missing almost whole investment section, there is nothing even close to Total Commander - with similar tools charging exorbitant prices for 10% of its functionality, nothing like BlueIris - unless you want to be couple hundred USD poorer and still miss out on a lot of functions etc.
 

SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
Let us know what software exactly you're talking about, I'm sure we can find an equivalent. My experience is exactly the opposite, MacOS is missing a lot of Windows software, or the MacOS versions are severely limited. Outlook for Mac doesn't have auto archive or mailbox cleanup tools, Quicken is missing almost whole investment section, there is nothing even close to Total Commander - with similar tools charging exorbitant prices for 10% of its functionality, nothing like BlueIris - unless you want to be couple hundred USD poorer and still miss out on a lot of functions etc.

That has been my experience as well, so even though most of my computers are Macs, I can't get away from still having to boot to Windows via Bootcamp. Really can't think of anything Mac only that I can't find an equivalent for on PC, thought I did like Aperture at the time.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
Windows is not bad at all.

For me, there is no wrong decision now, and I like that. Older Macs & iDevices, and newer PCs? I can live with that.

I thank everyone for being patient and so open with me. I will post in this forum because I keep learning and appreciating the knowledge, support and info. And no, I won’t let up on Cook and co. for continuing to release questionably built and tested hardware and bug-riddled software. Why not dominate Hollywood with hardware & software everyone wants to use to make that original content everyone wants to see?

I dunno...

Apple has certainly made some questionable hardware design decisions recently (the butterfly keyboard is a complete disaster) and their software is certainly not perfect but I would not describe it as bug ridden. In my experience Apple’s software is less buggy than Microsoft’s. Several recent Windows 10 updates have been a disaster (I heard that MS laid off a lot of their software testers). Several major versions of Windows were a complete mess (Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8). Windows 7 is I believe still the most popular version even though it is really old at this point.

OTOH Microsoft Word and Excel are clearly the best word processing and spreadsheet software. Much better than the Apple equivalents.

BTW going cross platform will probably add some friction to your day. One thing Apple is really good at is making all their stuff work really well together (e.g. using an Apple Watch to unlock your Mac or Airdrop or the way all your Apple devices can share Wi-Fi credentials).
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,103
8,658
Any place but here or there....
Let us know what software exactly you're talking about, I'm sure we can find an equivalent. My experience is exactly the opposite, MacOS is missing a lot of Windows software, or the MacOS versions are severely limited. Outlook for Mac doesn't have auto archive or mailbox cleanup tools, Quicken is missing almost whole investment section, there is nothing even close to Total Commander - with similar tools charging exorbitant prices for 10% of its functionality, nothing like BlueIris - unless you want to be couple hundred USD poorer and still miss out on a lot of functions etc.

Much, if not all, of the video conversion software I have has Windows counterparts.You make a good point,I’ve noticed that with Office, especially Excel.

Thankfully, I only use Word.

Yes, the complete jump is halted by art programs (mostly iOS) and a couple of Mac programs.

As I do not use Adobe creative cloud, and have not yet jumped into Affinity’s desktop versions, much less using a Wacom tablet, I have to ease into the Affinity software -and perhaps Corel- with a Wacom after I am confident enough to corral Windows.

I am slow in teaching myself software though, all of it personal stuff (physical, family, and most of all, my jobs now), so the less stress I take on the better.

@Queen6 - completely respect that.

I also understand it will take building confidence in Windows and art software for me to take the leap forward.

So right now I want to take this slowly. I have to research those programs with the internal GPU of the Surface Laptop.

I do not use my Apple products together (I refuse to subscribe to iCloud), don’t own a watch etc., so that integration is not going to impact me too hard. All I do is sync my phone and iPad to the iMac just to upload photos, or add/remove movies.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
That has been my experience as well, so even though most of my computers are Macs, I can't get away from still having to boot to Windows via Bootcamp. Really can't think of anything Mac only that I can't find an equivalent for on PC, thought I did like Aperture at the time.

True, one simply needs to do a little research for a rational alternative. I really liked Aperture until Apple canned it :( Then again Latte's all round o_O

Q-6
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
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Highlands Ranch, CO
True, one simply needs to do a little research for a rational alternative. I really liked Aperture until Apple canned it :( Then again Latte's all round o_O

Q-6


Yeah, I held on to it for a long time, because Apple just let it wither without officially cancelling it for the longest time. Did they ever officially? There was always rumor and hints that maybe an update would come, but it never did. Apple likes to do that. Just let things wither until people forget about it and move on
 
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AndyMacAndMic

macrumors 65816
May 25, 2017
1,110
1,669
Western Europe
Much, if not all, of the video conversion software I have has Windows counterparts.You make a good point,I’ve noticed that with Office, especially Excel.

Thankfully, I only use Word.

Yes, the complete jump is halted by art programs (mostly iOS) and a couple of Mac programs.

As I do not use Adobe creative cloud, and have not yet jumped into Affinity’s desktop versions, much less using a Wacom tablet, I have to ease into the Affinity software -and perhaps Corel- with a Wacom after I am confident enough to corral Windows.

I am slow in teaching myself software though, all of it personal stuff (physical, family, and most of all, my jobs now), so the less stress I take on the better.

@Queen6 - completely respect that.

I also understand it will take building confidence in Windows and art software for me to take the leap forward.

So right now I want to take this slowly. I have to research those programs with the internal GPU of the Surface Laptop.

I do not use my Apple products together (I refuse to subscribe to iCloud), don’t own a watch etc., so that integration is not going to impact me too hard. All I do is sync my phone and iPad to the iMac just to upload photos, or add/remove movies.

Maybe you see a mountain now, but soon it will be a mole-hill. Give it some time and you will see that the differences are not that vast.
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
Maybe you see a mountain now, but soon it will be a mole-hill. Give it some time and you will see that the differences are not that vast.

Agreed. I felt overwhelmed at first as well when I purchased my SP5. My first thoughts were "What the heck did I just get myself into." But once past the initial shock of "Dam, I just bought my first Windows machine in over a decade, I found I really enjoyed digging into it.
 

Thysanoptera

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2018
910
873
Pittsburgh, PA
Yes, the complete jump is halted by art programs (mostly iOS) and a couple of Mac programs.

That's a different story, I'm sure iOS has the largest selection of touch enabled programs and most mature ones also. On Windows the touch always felt to me as an afterthought that Microsoft force feeds customers and I hate it. I didn't even know Wacom makes full blown tablets now, just as I don't know much about art and stuff, but I'm using and will continue to use iPad to make annotations on engineering drawings. There is a good chance that you will be better off with iPad for drawing and Windows based desktop/laptop for the sheer horsepower when you need to render/convert, you don't have to switch every single device to just one hardware/software provider. Use whatever you feel most comfortable with, don't force the issue.
 
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kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,103
8,658
Any place but here or there....
That's a different story, I'm sure iOS has the largest selection of touch enabled programs and most mature ones also. On Windows the touch always felt to me as an afterthought that Microsoft force feeds customers and I hate it. I didn't even know Wacom makes full blown tablets now, just as I don't know much about art and stuff, but I'm using and will continue to use iPad to make annotations on engineering drawings. There is a good chance that you will be better off with iPad for drawing and Windows based desktop/laptop for the sheer horsepower when you need to render/convert, you don't have to switch every single device to just one hardware/software provider. Use whatever you feel most comfortable with, don't force the issue.
If iPad Pros weren’t such a hot mess (really), I’d agree with you. The thin obsession without a cooling solution fries the iPP internals and the ability to use touch. I tried again last week and many of the same issues I had on the 12.9 were right there on 10.5 (and worse, the pencil would not always work in Procreate).

So the only option is older iPads with not enough RAM to cause issues.

Besides, Wacom pens have double the pressure sensitivity of the Apple Pencil. Wacoms make a machine that runs windows and is tablet, but I just want to draw on the screen.

Not stressing any more, just accepting that this is a process and it will be slow, which for impatient me blows.:p
 
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AndyMacAndMic

macrumors 65816
May 25, 2017
1,110
1,669
Western Europe
If iPad Pros weren’t such a hot mess (really), I’d agree with you. The thin obsession without a cooling solution fries the iPP internals and the ability to use touch. I tried again last week and many of the same issues I had on the 12.9 were right there on 10.5 (and worse, the pencil would not always work in Procreate).

So the only option is older iPads with not enough RAM to cause issues.

Besides, Wacom pens have double the pressure sensitivity of the Apple Pencil. Wacoms make a machine that runs windows and is tablet, but I just want to draw on the screen.

Not stressing any more, just accepting that this is a process and it will be slow, which for inpatient me blows.:p

The advantage of most modern art/drawing programs is that they have the same look and feel irrespective of the OS. If you start them you don't notice the difference anymore. Granted, the touch aspect maybe more prevalent in iOS, but for instance in a program like Affinity, you don't notice which OS you are using anymore. Basically you are only using Windows or iOS or macOS to start the program. After that it works the same on all platforms. As I said, the differences are not that vast ;)
 
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