Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[Mauki]

You asked if there were serious runners here but then say you can't complete a long run because you don't know how fast you are going. I'd say any serious runner would know their pace without a watch. I can easily run anywhere between a 5:30min/mi to an 8:00min/mi within 20sec accuracy on feel alone. I come from Garmin watches and instant pace sucked on all of them without setting it to a rolling pace. I use a rolling pace on WOD and don't really care if it's lagged a little because I already have a good idea of what I am running. Even on intervals I find a 3s rolling pace responsive enough.

Ok your the best.

nice that you know exactly how fast you run.

I can never judge it exactly and that's why I have an Apple Watch. I could otherwise train just as well without a watch.

For me is pace important and I use this since 13 years on sportwatches.

 

[Mauki]

I can tell! Your problem is not because watchOS cannot give a good current pace but because a bug in the iOS/watchOS permissions system is stopping you from using the pedometer pace. The pace from the pedometer is the default and is usually fine, but unfortunately you can't use it because the iOS bug is not showing WOD as an option for the Motion & Fitness permission.

If the Motion & Fitness permission is available after the reinstall then the app will use the pedometer pace by default and that may be ok for you. Maybe.

Before I reinstall, I still want to test a run with settings pedometer first and I will do another run with the Apple running app....

Currently I have the following settings.

That should actually fit so or?

 

[76er]

You might also check in the iPhone >> Einstellungen >> WOD >> Standort that you enabled location sharing and the switch for "Genauer Standort" is on.

And also check iPhone >> Einstellungen >> Datenschutz & Sicherheit >> Health >> WorkOut Doors and enable everything under "WOD darf Daten lesen". (and of course writing as well if you want the results to be stored in Health correctly)

Don't know 100% if all of this is mandatory, but as you are facing problems it might be worth checking.

 

[Mauki]

You might also check in the iPhone >> Einstellungen >> WOD >> Standort that you enabled location sharing and the switch for "Genauer Standort" is on.

yes it is on, see picture

What is "Start in Safe Mode"?

And also check iPhone >> Einstellungen >> Datenschutz & Sicherheit >> Health >> WorkOut Doors and enable everything under "WOD darf Daten lesen". (and of course writing as well if you want the results to be stored in Health correctly)

Is everything already switched on since the beginning

 

[76er]

No idea about "safe mode" - have seen this for the first time exactly now as I checked the settings...
>> cfc?

 

[cfc]

It looks like you have the Motion & Fitness permissions now, so you don't need to uninstall the iPhone app. As you can't see the current pace when choosing pedometer then please disable that permission; then reboot both the watch and the iPhone; then enable it again. There is a bug in iOS/watchOS where they seem to forget to send permissions to the watch, and this procedure nudges iOS into sending them to watchOS. Hopefully you will then be able to see the current pace from the pedometer.

Ignore "Start in Safe Mode". It is for when a workout file has got corrupted when being transferred from the watch to the phone. This can cause the iPhone app to crash when it tries to read it. Safe mode prevents the app reading new workout files and allows you to delete the workout before switching off safe mode. You can then re-send the same workout file from the watch app and it should be fine because data corruption is so rare.

Previously I only needed to suggest safe mode about once a year, but it has been necessary 3 or 4 times since iOS 16 / watchOS 9 were released so I think Apple have introduced a new bug that more frequently (but still extremely rarely) corrupts the workout file when sending it to the phone.

 

[Mauki]

It looks like you have the Motion & Fitness permissions now, so you don't need to uninstall the iPhone app. As you can't see the current pace when choosing pedometer then please disable that permission; then reboot both the watch and the iPhone; then enable it again. There is a bug in iOS/watchOS where they seem to forget to send permissions to the watch, and this procedure nudges iOS into sending them to watchOS. Hopefully you will then be able to see the current pace from the pedometer.

I‘m happy that I don‘t must reinstall the App. 👍

I will do some tests 😎

What is the best metric for instant pace over pedometer (see my screen for testing)

 

[cfc]

I‘m happy that I don‘t must reinstall the App. 👍

I will do some tests 😎

What is the best metric for instant pace over pedometer (see my screen for testing)

The top metric (current pace) is best because that is the pace used throughout the app. For example for alerts, for the determination of max pace, and what is displayed in the iPhone app when swiping through the workout to see the pace at each point.

This can be set to come from the watchOS Pedometer system, the GPS system or the Health system. The lower 3 metrics show the current pace from each of those particular sources. The idea is that you can compare 2 or 3 paces at the same time in order to determine which source to use for the current pace.

So the top two metrics will be the same when the pedometer is the selected source for the current pace (which it is by default).

 

[longdizzle]

I have just heard from one of the app's beta testers that Apple have fixed the bug where the action button on the Ultra stops working if you reboot the watch. He has found that it works fine with the latest beta (3) of watchOS 9.2.

Apparently the first time you use the action button after a reboot it takes about 10 seconds to react, but after that it is back to normal, so I guess Apple needed to do some extra processing after a reboot in order to fix the problem.

I only have one Ultra, and I want to keep that on the current release version, so it would be great if anyone else could confirm this?

This means that I can’t release the next version of WOD until Apple release watchOS 9.2 (rumoured to be December), but at least I don’t have to waste any more time trying to fix the problem. I have already spent weeks (possibly months) trying to get the action button working, but I can now focus on the always on display and the navigation improvements.

I caved and installed the latest beta. Can confirm that it now fixes the restart action button issue. You press the button and it just sits there for (apparently 10 seconds but it felt longer) an eternity and then works as intended. Yay.

 

[cfc]

I caved and installed the latest beta. Can confirm that it now fixes the restart action button issue. You press the button and it just sits there for (apparently 10 seconds but it felt longer) an eternity and then works as intended. Yay.

That is great to hear! Thanks for checking that.

 

[billy82]

I have just heard from one of the app's beta testers that Apple have fixed the bug where the action button on the Ultra stops working if you reboot the watch. He has found that it works fine with the latest beta (3) of watchOS 9.2.

Apparently the first time you use the action button after a reboot it takes about 10 seconds to react, but after that it is back to normal, so I guess Apple needed to do some extra processing after a reboot in order to fix the problem.

I only have one Ultra, and I want to keep that on the current release version, so it would be great if anyone else could confirm this?

This means that I can’t release the next version of WOD until Apple release watchOS 9.2 (rumoured to be December), but at least I don’t have to waste any more time trying to fix the problem. I have already spent weeks (possibly months) trying to get the action button working, but I can now focus on the always on display and the navigation improvements.

Hi Ian, I think someone else already asked but I was wondering if you would consider adding triggered/manual starts to workout using action button now that you understand how to implement it much better? It’s probably the only other use for action button besides what you are offering in the beta and I think is quite useful.

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian, I think someone else already asked but I was wondering if you would consider adding triggered/manual starts to workout using action button now that you understand how to implement it much better? It’s probably the only other use for action button besides what you are offering in the beta and I think is quite useful.

To be honest I have had enough of the action button code at the moment. I expected it to take a few minutes to include it in the app but it ended up taking several weeks for a multitude of reasons.

When I am feeling ready to face it again then I will look at the precision start feature. From what I can see it isn't mentioned in the documentation that was eventually published. In theory it should be pretty easy to code, but that's what I thought before!

 

[BenGoren]

So, I might just be blind … but is there any way to add a specific schedule directly to the main menu? There’s only one interval workout that I’m ever going to do, and it would be nice to tap it directly rather than have to navigate through a few levels to get to it.

Thanks!

b&

 

[mgmooij]

So, I might just be blind … but is there any way to add a specific schedule directly to the main menu? There’s only one interval workout that I’m ever going to do, and it would be nice to tap it directly rather than have to navigate through a few levels to get to it.

Thanks!

b&

Be sure to “send the schedule to watch” and then on the main screen hit the 3 dots with the circle, choose Interval Schedule and then your schedule. That’s it 😉

 

[cfc]

So, I might just be blind … but is there any way to add a specific schedule directly to the main menu? There’s only one interval workout that I’m ever going to do, and it would be nice to tap it directly rather than have to navigate through a few levels to get to it.

Thanks!

b&

No-one has ever asked for the ability to show a schedule on the top level menu but I will bear it mind for the future.

 

[BenGoren]

No-one has ever asked for the ability to show a schedule on the top level menu but I will bear it mind for the future.

Surprised to hear I’m the first to mention it! But I’ll certainly appreciate it should it ever find its way to the top of your to-do list.

b&

 

[longdizzle]

No-one has ever asked for the ability to show a schedule on the top level menu but I will bear it mind for the future.

+1 for quicker access to intervals. I probably would like more than just 1 interval, but given that there's a million other workouts, it seems like having a separate "interval run" and an "open run" workout with the interval run taking you to your schedules (or opens the only schedule if there's only 1 saved) is useful. It only saves 1 or 2 sub menus, but that adds up. More importantly, it lets me assign it to the action button

 

[cfc]

Surprised to hear I’m the first to mention it! But I’ll certainly appreciate it should it ever find its way to the top of your to-do list.

b&

I don't think anyone has ever suggested quick access to anything from the main menu but it makes sense. If someone has recently loaded or used an interval schedule or a route then maybe I should offer that as an option on the main menu.

I will bear it in mind for any future re-design of the app, but it won't be included any time soon because there are other priorities at the moment. Sorry about that.

 

[BenGoren]

I don't think anyone has ever suggested quick access to anything from the main menu but it makes sense. If someone has recently loaded or used an interval schedule or a route then maybe I should offer that as an option on the main menu.

I will bear it in mind for any future re-design of the app, but it won't be included any time soon because there are other priorities at the moment. Sorry about that.

So … for the back of your mind … personally, I’d like to be able to manually order stuff on the main screen, but I can see others preferring a “most recent on top” sorting. I’m sure it’s much easier to build such sorting options in from the start rather than to wedge them in as an afterthought — thus me planting the seed now.

Again, obviously a pretty low priority!

b&

 

[MarcellusChan]

quick question.

Are there any specific pros / cons to connecting a chest heart rate monitor directly to WOD vs to WatchOS?

The only one I can find if that there is a max of 2 Bluetooth connections for 3rd party apps, hence connecting to WatchOS doesn’t eat up this quota.

I am connecting via WatchOS now, and I don’t know if the reading is coming from the watch sensor or the chest strap. Is there an in icon somewhere to indicate?

Any differences to post workout analysis for each connection type?

Thanks

 

[76er]

From the workoutdoors.net page:

The Apple Watch has a limit of 2 bluetooth connections in total across all third party apps. This does not include headphones connected to watchOS or heart rate sensors connected via watchOS. So if you want to connect 3 sensors and one of them is a HR sensor, then pair that via watchOS.

The main advantage of connecting heart rate sensors via WorkOutDoors instead of via watchOS is that WorkOutDoors can read heart rate variability (HRV) from sensors that provide it.

 

[Mauki]

Today there was another testrun, this time with the following settings (pedometer with pace smoothing on max).

What can I say, my eyes could hardly believe what they saw. The pace was very consistent and accurate and there were no jumps of over a minute. Very nice.

But it is interesting that despite the same data source (according to cfc) field 1 and 2 were never identical. However, the values were very close.
I will see the pace smothing down a bit and look how the pace behaves.

But this makes hope and mood for the next runs with WOD. It will be better and better.


I even had another sense of achievement today, which finally makes the Apple Watch a full-fledged replacement for my Garmin Fenix 3.

I was very disappointed with the operation of the watch and WOD during my first runs. I don't find using a touchscreen during a run practical and prefer using buttons. Especially if you have gloves on, the control is impossible. I really cried tears after my Garmin Fenix until I found some settings.

The first was that I don’t have to turn my arm to see WOD, I turn the crown (even with gloves) to wake the screen and I see wonderful my WOD screen. And the best feature I discovered is that I can use the crown to switch between screens. What an awesome feature.

So I can control WOD completely with buttons, except when you get to the map. When the action button is active in the next version then everything is perfect.

Have I said that I love this app. 🤪👍

 

[cfc]

quick question.

Are there any specific pros / cons to connecting a chest heart rate monitor directly to WOD vs to WatchOS?

The only one I can find if that there is a max of 2 Bluetooth connections for 3rd party apps, hence connecting to WatchOS doesn’t eat up this quota.

I am connecting via WatchOS now, and I don’t know if the reading is coming from the watch sensor or the chest strap. Is there an in icon somewhere to indicate?

Any differences to post workout analysis for each connection type?

Thanks

If you connect a HRM via watchOS then the app cannot easily tell that the heart rates are coming from an external sensor. They are sent to the app in the same way as they would be if they cam from the watch sensor.

As @76er says the advantage of connecting via WOD is that you can see HRV live during a workout and also in the post workout analysis.

One way to determine the source of the heart rates when connecting via watchOS is to examine the individual heart rate "samples", which can be found (with a bit of searching) in Apple's Health app. These describe whether the sample was from the Apple Watch or a paired HRM.

 

[cfc]

Today there was another testrun, this time with the following settings (pedometer with pace smoothing on max).

What can I say, my eyes could hardly believe what they saw. The pace was very consistent and accurate and there were no jumps of over a minute. Very nice.

But it is interesting that despite the same data source (according to cfc) field 1 and 2 were never identical. However, the values were very close.
I will see the pace smothing down a bit and look how the pace behaves.

But this makes hope and mood for the next runs with WOD. It will be better and better.


I even had another sense of achievement today, which finally makes the Apple Watch a full-fledged replacement for my Garmin Fenix 3.

I was very disappointed with the operation of the watch and WOD during my first runs. I don't find using a touchscreen during a run practical and prefer using buttons. Especially if you have gloves on, the control is impossible. I really cried tears after my Garmin Fenix until I found some settings.

The first was that I don’t have to turn my arm to see WOD, I turn the crown (even with gloves) to wake the screen and I see wonderful my WOD screen. And the best feature I discovered is that I can use the crown to switch between screens. What an awesome feature.

So I can control WOD completely with buttons, except when you get to the map. When the action button is active in the next version then everything is perfect.

Have I said that I love this app. 🤪👍

Glad that the pace is much better. The pedometer pace is the current pace that everyone sees by default, but which you were not seeing because the permissioning errors in iOS/watchOS meant that you could not see the pedometer.

The difference between current pace and pedometer pace is probably due to the smoothing. The pedometer pace is just the raw unsmoothed pace from the pedometer whereas the current pace has the smoothing applied to it. If there was no smoothing then they would be the same, so if the pedometer pace also looked ok then you can probably switch off the smoothing for the current pace by positioning the slider to the far left.

The next version will allow you to configure what happens when you press the action button and the side button at the same time, as well as what happens when you just press the side button, so that will be two more operations that will be possible with gloves. By default they pause/resume and start a new interval, but you can change that in the app's Shortcuts menu, just as you did to make the crown up/down control the screens.

There is also a Shake gesture that allows you to control what happens when you shake your wrist vigorously. This can happen accidentally so it is best to set it to something that doesn't matter if it happens. For example you could make it speak and/or display a configurable set of metrics by associating it with one of the Status Updates and then going to the Alerts settings to configure which metrics you want to see/hear for that status update. So for example you could shake your wrist and hear your current pace, heart rate and distance etc.

It's great to hear that you are happy with the watch and the app! 😀

 

[noel18]

Today there was another testrun, this time with the following settings (pedometer with pace smoothing on max).

FYI, the watch logs every second (at least my S6 does). If I recall Ian said that the slider all the way to the right would be 10 samples. So you are effectively doing the same thing as a rolling 10sec pace.