Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

Long distance road test....PASSED !!

https://www.strava.com/activities/2418628822

Well...I completed the “Escape from GB” ultrarunning race starting at midday on Friday from Haltwhistle (the geographic centre of Great Britain), the object being to get as far away as the crow flys as possible by midday Sunday.

I knew I couldn’t really run that far continuously (there was a runner with Marathon de Sables and Barkley Marathon experience, and even he had to drop out before the 48hrs was up, to avoid serious injury)...so made the decision to have an actual bed for both nights (some people ran through the night), and planned a route where I’d more or less finish by the Saturday evening, barring a short walk and a boat ride on the Sunday morning to notch up a few more miles....a BOAT ride?! Yes...one caveat to the “on foot” rules was a proviso that runners could cross the sea, to be categorised in a special “Islander” category for the runner who ‘escaped’ (the virtual crow) the furthest distance and reached somewhere beyond the mainland.

Anyway...an incredibly slow Friday afternoon had me safely in the pub I was sleeping in about 2hrs behind planned schedule, the hills and wind and rain and boggy Northumberland Forest slowed me down a lot more than I’d hoped! Saturday was mainly country road surface (barring the odd few miles of farmland and river crossings), but my tired body and lots of walking up hills again lost me about an hour across the full day compared to what I’d hoped for. But, I’d made it.

Sunday as I say was easy, a walk to a harbour, sit on a boat and then marvel at thousands of puffins and seals...amazing that I’d got there effectively under my own power after starting about as far away as it’s possible to get from the sea. Oh...and I WON the Islander category, being the only person stupid enough to attempt a sea crossing!!

Route had been planned and refined on the MapOut app on iPad over a period of a few weeks (with lots of reference to Google maps...it’s a shame that MapOut doesn’t have a toggle for Satellite imagery), with WayPoints added for my end of day bases, plus WayPointed a pub halfway through each day where I planned on a 30-45 minute recharge.

MapOut was good for reviewing the route at the start of each day and having a quick glance of elevation...and towards the end of the second day I used it a couple of times to double check how far I had left to go.

BUT...in the main, I ran the whole thing solely relying on WorkOutdoors....navigating through barely marked dense forest paths, along miles and miles of roads I’ve never been before, and across public footpaths and bridleways that criss crossed open marshy moorland that looked pretty much the same in all directions.

It performed brilliantly!

Since I had my phone I left them paired, and I decided to leave heart rate tracking enabled. After the first 4hrs, I just stuck my watch on the charger (with a mobile powerbank) and got a 20 minute boost whilst I had a sugary soft drink (and a not so soft one)...that got me back to 100%...and I ran the remaining 3 or 4 hrs on Friday without even really checking the battery.

Similar story on Saturday...I set off running at 9am...recharged in a pub at 1pm, and had plenty juice left when I finished running around 630pm...battery drain was probably quite a bit less on the Saturday as the long roads meant I only really had to navigate at junctions so didn’t really look at watch that much...barring one incident where there was a bull blocking my route so I zoomed out the map (on watch, didn’t even bother with phone), and quickly worked out a way around to join back up with my plan via a brief diversion.

So, I had four activities, (plus one I created on the Sunday morning), I’d disabled my auto syncing to Strava via HealthFit, simply exported them from WorkoutDoors and glued them together with https://gotoes.org/strava/Combine_GPX_TCX_FIT_Files.php ... and all was done! Maybe merging / splitting activities in the phone app is something that could be looked at in future??

The ONLY slight niggle I had really was a few times up on the hills with rain and mist, I guess rain must have been interpreted as a touch on the screen or something, as when I glanced at the watched, I wasn’t centred, and had to wipe the screen and try and dry my fingers to press the button to recentre to my location etc...I had this perhaps 4 or 5 times...on the Friday, and it was quite frustrating...implementing / fixing the screenlock (so screen touches do nothing but the crown can zoom in and out of the map), is a must-have I reckon. In the dry weather on Saturday I had no problems whatsoever, and it was actually a relatively pleasant experience to glance at my wrist and just zoom in and out with the Digital Crown every now and then if I needed to get an idea of what was coming up.

Having an “estimated finish time” field based on average pace, and either grabbing the remaining distance from the activated route, or manually entering a distance before starting would have been handy I guess...when you’ve been plodding through ankle deep mud for 2hrs or knee deep nettles for 30minutes, your ability to calculate time does kind of go out the window somewhat, and it’s nice to have some kind of target to aim for, and then adjust that target once the reality hits you that you run a lot slower than you think once you start doing long distances!

(Oh yeah, I also rather stupidly ran 18miles the day BEFORE this race started, having dumped my car near to where I aimed to finish, I ran to the nearest train station, again on a route planned on MapOut and just using WorkOutdoors to find my way!! Again, having that “expected finish time” would have been useful here as I was trying to run as conservatively as possible but make it for my train time...and I had no real idea what that meant in terms of working out the required average pace!

So thanks...great app, I think Ive tested it to the extreme and it’s passed comfortably!
Nothing crazy planned until next year at least...so I know WorkOutdoors can easily match any challenge I throw at it in the meantime

That is an insane weekend of running, and an incredible test of the app that I am very glad (and very relieved!) that it passed.

16 hours is far and away the longest workout that I have ever seen created with WorkOutDoors. Thanks for posting the link to the GPX Combine Strava Utility - I will recommend it to others who create multiple workouts and want to stitch them together.

The screen lock will work in the next version, with the option to just lock the screen and not the crown. The app will also include the full water lock function.

The version after next will improve the GPX route features, including estimated finish time. I am actually currently coding a similar thing for interval schedules at the moment for the next version.

Thanks for trusting the app for your crazy weekend. I am happy to hear that you won "Islander" category. There may not have been (m)any other competitors in the category, but anyone who runs 120km across all terrains in a single weekend deserves to win something!

 

[Akrapovic]

Maybe this isn't a WOD topic, but this is a good thread to ask in. Is there a way to edit the files exported to Strava? Maybe not in WOD, but in an app before it's exported to Strava?

My GPS signal was grey at the start of a run, which wasn't great. But I've now completed the run and it's been exported to Strava and it's registered me as having completed 400m in 44 seconds...which is 1 second shy of the World Record. I can delete the activity, but I'd rather still have it, with corrected data. Is this something which can be easily done?

https://www.strava.com/activities/2421878277

The start of the run, it registers me as running through a grassy area - I didn't, I stuck to the road. I'm having quite a few issues with GPS recently, unfortunately.

 

[cfc]

Maybe this isn't a WOD topic, but this is a good thread to ask in. Is there a way to edit the files exported to Strava? Maybe not in WOD, but in an app before it's exported to Strava?

My GPS signal was grey at the start of a run, which wasn't great. But I've now completed the run and it's been exported to Strava and it's registered me as having completed 400m in 44 seconds...which is 1 second shy of the World Record. I can delete the activity, but I'd rather still have it, with corrected data. Is this something which can be easily done?

https://www.strava.com/activities/2421878277

The start of the run, it registers me as running through a grassy area - I didn't, I stuck to the road. I'm having quite a few issues with GPS recently, unfortunately.

Unfortunately I haven't heard of any good GPX editing tools that I can recommend, so if anyone knows of any then I would be interested to.

When you start your workout do you wait for a good signal (4 or 5 blue bars) in the top left of the menu before starting? This allows the app to get a good GPS lock before you start.

Also do you run with or without your iPhone? If it is without then is your iPhone nearby when you start the workout? If so then it is worth putting it in airplane mode because otherwise the watch will use its GPS until you get out of range. It may then struggle to get its own signal for a while, especially as you are moving by then. I really wish Apple would allow watch apps to control where the GPS comes from!

 

[Akrapovic]

I found a GPX editing tool, but it stripped out other data such as time and heart rate and only left distance - so when uploading to Strava, it gave an error. Really we need a tool with preserves the other stats of the activity.

I didn't realise that waiting for a good GPS signal made a difference. I (incorrectly) assumed that it was a constant thing, like a regular phone signal, and it always would fluctuate randomly. I'll try and make sure of that in the future.

I do run with my phone, in a waistband thing. Phone is basically at my stomach the whole time. I've often wondered if running with the phone at my back would improve GPS signal. I don't like the armbands, but I assume they'd give the best possible GPS.

I'll need to have a play about and attempt to improve the GPS a bit. My maps are often very bumpy and wobbly with some significant diversions.

 

[cfc]

I found a GPX editing tool, but it stripped out other data such as time and heart rate and only left distance - so when uploading to Strava, it gave an error. Really we need a tool with preserves the other stats of the activity.

I didn't realise that waiting for a good GPS signal made a difference. I (incorrectly) assumed that it was a constant thing, like a regular phone signal, and it always would fluctuate randomly. I'll try and make sure of that in the future.

I do run with my phone, in a waistband thing. Phone is basically at my stomach the whole time. I've often wondered if running with the phone at my back would improve GPS signal. I don't like the armbands, but I assume they'd give the best possible GPS.

I'll need to have a play about and attempt to improve the GPS a bit. My maps are often very bumpy and wobbly with some significant diversions.

That is the problem with most GPX editors: they assume that the files are purely routes for navigation (which is what GPX files were created to be) rather than the stats for a workout. As such they only manipulate the positions and elevations and not the workout metrics such as time, heart rate and cadence. The last two in particular are rarely handled because they are extensions invented by Garmin and not in the standard definition for GPX files.

Using the GPS sensor is a major power drain so it is only switched on when required. You will probably find that waiting for a good signal will help your accuracy greatly.

If you are still having problems then try switching on airplane mode, or switching off WiFi and Bluetooth, on your iPhone before you start. This will force the watch to use its own GPS sensor, which can be better than that in the phone (whether or not this is the case varies from user to user according to the hardware they have and where they keep their phone). Again wait for a decent GPS signal in the app before you start.

 

[Akrapovic]

I'm learning a lot about the tech side of things here! Didn't realise the additional data were extensions. I think I found a random post on a forum saying SmashRun can edit these sort of files, so I'll look into that.

Not taking my phone, or putting in airplane mode does come with a specific set of problems for me. My terrible headphones won't bluetooth to the Watch (but I am waiting on a set of PowerBeats Pros arriving), and I use Spotify, which I'm not sure allows you to store music on the Watch. I'll need to look into this further, as the inaccuracies in the Watch GPS are quite frustrating!

So that leads me to another WOD feature request (as if I haven't thrown enough nonsense your way!), the ability to move the GPS waypoints in a completed activity to correct inaccuracies manually!

 

[cfc]

I'm learning a lot about the tech side of things here! Didn't realise the additional data were extensions. I think I found a random post on a forum saying SmashRun can edit these sort of files, so I'll look into that.

Not taking my phone, or putting in airplane mode does come with a specific set of problems for me. My terrible headphones won't bluetooth to the Watch (but I am waiting on a set of PowerBeats Pros arriving), and I use Spotify, which I'm not sure allows you to store music on the Watch. I'll need to look into this further, as the inaccuracies in the Watch GPS are quite frustrating!

So that leads me to another WOD feature request (as if I haven't thrown enough nonsense your way!), the ability to move the GPS waypoints in a completed activity to correct inaccuracies manually!

I must admit that level of editing is unlikely to be in the app anytime soon! Sorry about that!

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

That is an insane weekend of running, and an incredible test of the app that I am very glad (and very relieved!) that it passed.

16 hours is far and away the longest workout that I have ever seen created with WorkOutDoors. Thanks for posting the link to the GPX Combine Strava Utility - I will recommend it to others who create multiple workouts and want to stitch them together.

The screen lock will work in the next version, with the option to just lock the screen and not the crown. The app will also include the full water lock function.

The version after next will improve the GPX route features, including estimated finish time. I am actually currently coding a similar thing for interval schedules at the moment for the next version.

Thanks for trusting the app for your crazy weekend. I am happy to hear that you won "Islander" category. There may not have been (m)any other competitors in the category, but anyone who runs 120km across all terrains in a single weekend deserves to win something!

My takeaway is that anyone should trust WOD for a marathon as a matter of course, as long as you’re starting with a fully charged watch in the morning, irrespective of if you have your phone with you or not.

Anything longer you may have to get smarter...I previously navigated a 41mile ultra although had to switch off heart rate monitoring around half way, and battery ran out just before the end (which means you lose the track etc, but get an activity that records time and distance)....this was with carrying phone so as to drain less power.

I reckon for longer than 8hrs duration activity’s, you need to think about scheduling in recharge breaks...I guess this is normally going to impact cyclists, and they tend to stop for coffee anyway!?

This is all with the caveat that I’m not playing any music.

App stability itself is rock solid. I had no qualms at all about jumping away to reply to messages etc mid run (actually managed to fix my daughters computer problem whilst running up a hill at the weekend!) or jumping to DarkSky to check on expected rainfall for next hour and then skipping back.
[doublepost=1559634671][/doublepost]

Maybe this isn't a WOD topic, but this is a good thread to ask in. Is there a way to edit the files exported to Strava? Maybe not in WOD, but in an app before it's exported to Strava?

My GPS signal was grey at the start of a run, which wasn't great. But I've now completed the run and it's been exported to Strava and it's registered me as having completed 400m in 44 seconds...which is 1 second shy of the World Record. I can delete the activity, but I'd rather still have it, with corrected data. Is this something which can be easily done?

https://www.strava.com/activities/2421878277

The start of the run, it registers me as running through a grassy area - I didn't, I stuck to the road. I'm having quite a few issues with GPS recently, unfortunately.

You could just crop to lose the opening 800m using the tools on Strava...you’d lose that small bit of distance, but your records wouldn’t be spoiled.

 

[Akrapovic]

You could just crop to lose the opening 800m using the tools on Strava...you’d lose that small bit of distance, but your records wouldn’t be spoiled.

Excellent call. Wasn't aware of that feature.

 

[Otto Pilot]

Not strictly related to this app, but close enough that I’ll risk asking the question here. I’m doing some research for an Apple Watch fitness episode of our podcast, and one thing that seems to come up as a given, but that I can’t find any actual data on is the effect on battery of using an external heart rate monitor vs. the one in the watch. Everyone seems to point to battery savings by not using the one in the watch, but I have been unable to quantify how much battery saving is expected to be achieved that way. If anyone has any experience or a source on this that I may have overlooked, I would appreciate it. I was just gifted a set of Bose SoundSport Pulse headphones, and am trying to determine if there is a measurable battery saving that would be achieved vs PowerBeats Pro. Thanks!

 

[Akrapovic]

Unfortunately I haven't heard of any good GPX editing tools that I can recommend, so if anyone knows of any then I would be interested to.

Did a run today and the tree cover a few km in once again had me running 400m at World Record pace, so I had a look around for a tool again. There are a few which edit GPX but strip out time data. There are others which keep the time data, but are too detailed - hours of moving GPS points isn't fun. But I found something called Track Profiler which seems good.

https://trackprofiler2.appspot.com/ - Track Profiler

Edited Activity: https://www.strava.com/activities/2436150046

The edited Activity is more accurate than the original, and still has a suspicious amount of personal records, but they seem more reasonable than what the original activity showed.

 

[cfc]

Did a run today and the tree cover a few km in once again had me running 400m at World Record pace, so I had a look around for a tool again. There are a few which edit GPX but strip out time data. There are others which keep the time data, but are too detailed - hours of moving GPS points isn't fun. But I found something called Track Profiler which seems good.

https://trackprofiler2.appspot.com/ - Track Profiler

Edited Activity: https://www.strava.com/activities/2436150046

The edited Activity is more accurate than the original, and still has a suspicious amount of personal records, but they seem more reasonable than what the original activity showed.

Thanks for that. It looks a handy tool. I will recommend it to people who ask for GPX editing in the future.

 

[fredash]

Hi !

Just performed an extensive bike workout today with series 4 and WorkOutDoors : started the workout with 99% charged series 4 and ended the workout 8h15 later with my series 4 at 2%. Just.... perfect ! Yes you read well... 8h15 of total workout time with location/GPS enabled and heart rate sensor ON !

Thanks to WorkOutDoors app to be very energy efficient. Can’t wait to see the new version ! Please Ian keep this app very energy friendly ! This is a very important feature for long workouts sessions like triathlon or long bike/trail workouts !

Thanks for this incredible and wonderful app !

Fred.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Hi !

Just performed an extensive bike workout today with series 4 and WorkOutDoors : started the workout with 99% charged series 4 and ended the workout 8h15 later with my series 4 at 2%. Just.... perfect ! Yes you read well... 8h15 of total workout time with location/GPS enabled and heart rate sensor ON !

Thanks to WorkOutDoors app to be very energy efficient. Can’t wait to see the new version ! Please Ian keep this app very energy friendly ! This is a very important feature for long workouts sessions like triathlon or long bike/trail workouts !

Thanks for this incredible and wonderful app !

Fred.

Good effort!

Was that in flight mode independent from phone?


I’m desperate for new version too, I don’t really see anything WatchOS 6 related of any interest or benefit to the app, so hopefully we’re on for a quick next release! (Plus the version after, which is what I’m waiting for!)

 

[cfc]

Hi !

Just performed an extensive bike workout today with series 4 and WorkOutDoors : started the workout with 99% charged series 4 and ended the workout 8h15 later with my series 4 at 2%. Just.... perfect ! Yes you read well... 8h15 of total workout time with location/GPS enabled and heart rate sensor ON !

Thanks to WorkOutDoors app to be very energy efficient. Can’t wait to see the new version ! Please Ian keep this app very energy friendly ! This is a very important feature for long workouts sessions like triathlon or long bike/trail workouts !

Thanks for this incredible and wonderful app !

Fred.

I am glad to hear that the app worked well and lasted so long. I do pay careful attention to the power usage. The CPU/GPU usage during a workout is very low compared to hardware power drains like the GPS, HR, comms and the screen, but it is still easy to write inefficient code if not careful. Luckily the app has excellent beta testers who would soon point it out!
[doublepost=1560151285][/doublepost]

I’m desperate for new version too, I don’t really see anything WatchOS 6 related of any interest or benefit to the app, so hopefully we’re on for a quick next release! (Plus the version after, which is what I’m waiting for!)

This year's WWDC was pretty good overall but very disappointing from a workout point of view. The upside is that it didn't mean much extra work for me. However I still want to make sure that the next version runs on the betas of iOS13 / watchOS 6. There are a few changes in iOS 13 that I need to handle in the iPhone app but the watch app seems to run fine on it so far (at least in the simulator - running on the real device may be another matter).

The current plan is to release the first beta of the new version in a week or so and then repeatedly release betas until one seems good enough to release to the App Store. I don't like to put a time on this as it depends on how the testing goes. However it could take a while because there are lots of new features and some of them are very flexible and require a lot of testing to cover all of the possibilities.

 

[fredash]

Good effort!

Was that in flight mode independent from phone?


I’m desperate for new version too, I don’t really see anything WatchOS 6 related of any interest or benefit to the app, so hopefully we’re on for a quick next release! (Plus the version after, which is what I’m waiting for!)

Thanks !

Yes I had my watch completely disconnected from my iPhone (leaved at home). So yes completely independent from phone.

My watch is 8 months old.

I consume about 12 to 14% per hour during a workout with WorkOutDoors, looking at my watch regularly, normal usage.
[doublepost=1560156756][/doublepost]

Good effort!

 

[Akrapovic]

I would guess that your "wobble" was just unlucky and simply poor GPS. As you guess apps don't have any real control over GPS signals. They simply request them and receive the updates back. They can specify an accuracy but WorkOutDoors requests the highest accuracy that it should do.

Having said that Apple offer an extra high accuracy which they describe as requiring the device to have an external power source in order to use. The current version of the app does not use this (because it shouldn't really) but the next version will have an option to switch to it if you want.

I have no idea if this will actually affect the accuracy on the watch but I figured that I would offer it anyway. It is probably designed for iPhones doing car navigation when they are plugged in to a car charger and could make no difference for a watch. It could also degrade battery time, which is why it will just be an option and not the default.

I know I'm digging up an old post here, but is this feature included, or on its way? Still messing about trying to get happy with GPS, so interested to see this one.

 

[cfc]

I know I'm digging up an old post here, but is this feature included, or on its way? Still messing about trying to get happy with GPS, so interested to see this one.

This feature will be in the next version. As I say I have no idea whether it makes any difference on the watch, because it is designed for use by an iPhone plugged into a car charger, but it will be available as an option.

 

[Akrapovic]

Another user in another thread found a novel way of fixing the GPS issues. Literally wearing the Watch the other way around. I wear it on my left arm, and normally have the crown on the right. Switch it so the crown is on the left and things drastically improve. The GPS receiver is in the top left of the watch (when the crown is on the right), so points downward when running. Rotating 180deg puts the GPS receiver upward.

Did a run today in not great conditions. Heavy cloud cover and quite a bit of tree coverage. WOD recorded excellent signal strength throughout. WOD made debugging the GPS issues much easier!

So there we go folks - want good data, just make sure the GPS receiver is pointing upward.

 

[cfc]

Another user in another thread found a novel way of fixing the GPS issues. Literally wearing the Watch the other way around. I wear it on my left arm, and normally have the crown on the right. Switch it so the crown is on the left and things drastically improve. The GPS receiver is in the top left of the watch (when the crown is on the right), so points downward when running. Rotating 180deg puts the GPS receiver upward.

Did a run today in not great conditions. Heavy cloud cover and quite a bit of tree coverage. WOD recorded excellent signal strength throughout. WOD made debugging the GPS issues much easier!

So there we go folks - want good data, just make sure the GPS receiver is pointing upward.

Wow - I have never heard that before! I will definitely be suggesting it to people with watch GPS issues. Thanks for that.

 

[Tomsm121]

Do you have an idea when the new update inclusief auto pause for cycling will be online?
Thanks for your great work!

 

[kbalak]

newbie to macrumours, not new to running
first of all great app.
am coming from garmin fenix series to AW and found workout app on AW doesnt do a lot of stuff am used to.
i have bought many apps in the last few weeks to fit my needs. currently using ismoothrun which is another great app btw

1. is it possible to adjust number of metrics on "Heart" Running screen. not just having empty, like 5 screens but wide and big.
2. Intervals, are they in your roadmap? ismoothrun has them but it doesnt alert during the run. for example: after 3miles, alert me to run my INT and then once its done and then for the starting of the next INT. Fenix countdowns from 5 to 1 to alert.
3. training plans uploading, like again how we do on garmin's app

 

[cfc]

newbie to macrumours, not new to running
first of all great app.
am coming from garmin fenix series to AW and found workout app on AW doesnt do a lot of stuff am used to.
i have bought many apps in the last few weeks to fit my needs. currently using ismoothrun which is another great app btw

1. is it possible to adjust number of metrics on "Heart" Running screen. not just having empty, like 5 screens but wide and big.
2. Intervals, are they in your roadmap? ismoothrun has them but it doesnt alert during the run. for example: after 3miles, alert me to run my INT and then once its done and then for the starting of the next INT. Fenix countdowns from 5 to 1 to alert.
3. training plans uploading, like again how we do on garmin's app

Thanks for buying the app. I am glad that you like it. To answer your questions:

You can control the number, format, font and metrics shown on each screen. To do this go to the Screens tab on the iPhone app or the Screens settings on the watch app (press the watch screen hard and tap Settings then Screens).

The next version will have intervals.

i plan to add training plans in the future after intervals have been added.

I hope that helps?

 

[supernacho]

Hi,

Could I install beta version when you publish it? If so, how could I?

Thanks.

 

[cfc]

Hi,

Could I install beta version when you publish it? If so, how could I?

Thanks.

Please send me an email at info@workoutdoors.net and I will add you to the list. Thanks!