Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

Yes thank you.
You described in detail what I mentioned earlier, that is how the baro system works initially supported by GPS (as a relative change in altitude from the base value given by GPS, based on the change in atmospheric pressure).

Surprisingly, it turns out that Apple has some mysterious "always-on altimeter"... I wonder what it is based on. This winter I was trekking trails where I didn't meet literally anyone all day long, not to mention any buildings. There was also no cellular coverage, so no WIFI, and yet the readings were, as I mentioned earlier, absurdly accurate.

The issue of recording altitude changes in activity tracking has interested me for years, so I must admit that I am very intrigued by how this mysterious Apple altimeter works.

It could be that it caches a terrain database for local areas, in the same way that WOD caches maps. So if you had ever used the altimeter when the watch did have a data connection then it may have cached the terrain data for the surrounding area.

Again this is a complete guess, but it would be one way to achieve what you saw.

It may not need to store a complete grid with altitudes for every point, but may just store ones on known trails and/or at known peak heights. So it could recalibrate the barometer at known positions and only use it if you moved from those positions. If you never left the trail then it would be extremely accurate without requiring a lot of data to be stored. Again this is just speculation as there are many ways to achieve this.

 

[vapilot]

hi @cfc I'm playing ice hockey tonight and noticed there is no type for hockey (but there is on Apple’s Workout app). Is there a way to create custom types? I want to ensure it’s tagged properly when I view in HealthFit. Thanks

I'd like it too... I'm a hockey player as well. I use the apple workout for now.

 

[vapilot]

FIT is usually the best format because it contains the most detail. It probably won't work for GPX or TCX either because, as I say, Strava only recognise a few activities for those file types.

As far as I know this is a Strava issue. WOD should be storing the FIT activity type and subtype that indicate yoga or pilates but it sounds like Strava is not reading the subtype. This is because the activity type for both yoga and pilates is the FIT "training" activity type but then there are FIT subtypes for yoga and pilates. Unfortunately there probably isn't anything the app can do about that so you will need to set it manually in Strava.

I've been using the TCX format for Strava export, I don't know why... maybe it was default? I would also like to know what each type offers. I haven't had any issues, but if FIT offers more data, I would want to change that.

 

[cfc]

I've been using the TCX format for Strava export, I don't know why... maybe it was default? I would also like to know what each type offers. I haven't had any issues, but if FIT offers more data, I would want to change that.

FIT is the default format for Strava export since I added it a while back, but TCX was the default prior to that. If you had swapped to GPX and then back to TCX then the app would have considered that you had specifically requested that format and not changed that choice to be FIT when it was available.

TCX files have most of the main metrics, including power, but don't have some of the less used ones, such as ground contact time and vertical oscillation, which are included in FIT files.

Also WOD stores some of the Stryd specific fields in FIT files using the format's ability to store custom data fields. This includes Leg Spring Stiffness, Form Power and Air Power which are stored using the custom fields defined by Stryd, so that they can be read by Stryd's PowerCenter system.

 

[kabzior]

It could be that it caches a terrain database for local areas, in the same way that WOD caches maps. So if you had ever used the altimeter when the watch did have a data connection then it may have cached the terrain data for the surrounding area.

Again this is a complete guess, but it would be one way to achieve what you saw.

It may not need to store a complete grid with altitudes for every point, but may just store ones on known trails and/or at known peak heights. So it could recalibrate the barometer at known positions and only use it if you moved from those positions. If you never left the trail then it would be extremely accurate without requiring a lot of data to be stored. Again this is just speculation as there are many ways to achieve this.

You may be right. I have looked at the GPS tracks carefully and in all the "significant" places that are marked on the topo maps (peaks, passes, ridges, huts etc) the readings are flawless. But in less obvious locations, or off the trail, there is a difference of about 2-3, sometimes 5 meters. It's still about 10x better than in e.g. Suunto, but...

Actually I have mixed feelings whether to enjoy this functionality or rather not, because I'm being a bit cheated

 

[BrianGGG]

A quick request for a minor item.

When I set up a 10 second interval for a Tabata run, I don't get a 3-2-1 countdown. This does happen for 20 second intervals, but not 10. This is admittedly a minor inconvenience, but it's necessary to watch the count-down manually so that I know that the 10 second interval is about to be over. It would be much better to hear it in my headphones.

Is this by design and could it be "fixed" if it's not?

 

[cfc]

A quick request for a minor item.

When I set up a 10 second interval for a Tabata run, I don't get a 3-2-1 countdown. This does happen for 20 second intervals, but not 10. This is admittedly a minor inconvenience, but it's necessary to watch the count-down manually so that I know that the 10 second interval is about to be over. It would be much better to hear it in my headphones.

Is this by design and could it be "fixed" if it's not?

Yes, this is by design because the spoken message at the start of an interval can often take longer than 7 seconds to speak. I am reluctant to change it because then I will get complaints about the countdown being delayed because of the start message. Sorry about that.

 

[BrianGGG]

Yes, this is by design because the spoken message at the start of an interval can often take longer than 7 seconds to speak. I am reluctant to change it because then I will get complaints about the countdown being delayed because of the start message. Sorry about that.

I understand

 

[oric1sg]

Hi Ian,

2 weeks ago I sent a gpx route from my iPhone to my Apple Watch Ultra and I'm able to see the route on the watch. Last week I delete the route from my watch and also on my phone.

Today I sent the same route again from the phone to the watch, it only appear on the phone. It doesn't appear on the watch now. What could be the problem? It says No Routes Available on my watch. Thanks.

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian,

2 weeks ago I sent a gpx route from my iPhone to my Apple Watch Ultra and I'm able to see the route on the watch. Last week I delete the route from my watch and also on my phone.

Today I sent the same route again from the phone to the watch, it only appear on the phone. It doesn't appear on the watch now. What could be the problem? It says No Routes Available on my watch. Thanks.

Try rebooting both the watch and the phone and then sending again. Sometimes watchOS and / or iOS get confused and need restarting.

 

[BrianGGG]

Has anyone observed any strange data values with Heart Rate in the last few weeks?

I have attached a few screenshots below to illustrate my recurring problem.

The first screen comes from WOD, and in here the Average Heart Rate is 141bpm and the Max is 158.

The second is the same workout by the time it gets to Apple Health, the average is 145 and the max is 181.

The middle graph in the third screenshot shows my problem visually from within TrainAsOne. You can see the huge fluctuations in BP over a short period of time.

I have had this problem over the past 2-3 weeks with multiple heart rate monitors, so I doubt that this is hardware-related.

There are only two things that have changed in the 2-3 week time period: I installed a few Beta releases on TestFlight (I have the most current now) and I switched to allow the Heart Monitor devices to connect from TAO rather than directly from my Apple Watch and BlueTooth.

The 180+ heart rate is extremely unlikely for me as it's pretty atypical for me to get above 160 for most runs of this type. This is supported by the TAO data. However, I don't understand what happens once the workout gets to Apple Health.


Any ideas, or anyone else seeing these types of results?

 

[iamasmith]

There are only two things that have changed in the 2-3 week time period: I installed a few Beta releases on TestFlight (I have the most current now) and I switched to allow the Heart Monitor devices to connect from TAO rather than directly from my Apple Watch and BlueTooth.

That looks something like a sample delay skew where you get results from one minute appearing in the next one rather than the original and it causes above normal peaks but they are quite high and I can't be sure of what the HRM sends without looking at the specs for that.

Alternatively could you have 2 apps dumping data to Apple Health at the same time? i.e. is WOD writing and TOA writing at the same time and something in the way this is sampled and stored periodically means you get extra samples for the time period?

Usually the rule of thumb in solving these things is to change one thing at once only. What results do you get without TOA in the equation?

 

[BrianGGG]

That looks something like a sample delay skew where you get results from one minute appearing in the next one rather than the original and it causes above normal peaks but they are quite high and I can't be sure of what the HRM sends without looking at the specs for that.

Alternatively could you have 2 apps dumping data to Apple Health at the same time? i.e. is WOD writing and TOA writing at the same time and something in the way this is sampled and stored periodically means you get extra samples for the time period?

Usually the rule of thumb in solving these things is to change one thing at once only. What results do you get without TOA in the equation?

Thanks for responding.

TAO isn't really in the equation as far as capturing data
My process is a bit too complex, but it's:

Capture workout on Apple Watch with WOD (nothing else is running or capturing)
At the end of the run, WOD automatically dumps to Apple Health
Import the run into RunGap from Apple Health
RunGap then imports into TrainAsOne directly after the run is over

 

[MaxSto]

Make sure only WOD is able to write in Apple Health and give the other apps only a reading permission.

Perhaps that’s the culprit.

 

[cfc]

Has anyone observed any strange data values with Heart Rate in the last few weeks?

I have attached a few screenshots below to illustrate my recurring problem.

The first screen comes from WOD, and in here the Average Heart Rate is 141bpm and the Max is 158.

The second is the same workout by the time it gets to Apple Health, the average is 145 and the max is 181.

The middle graph in the third screenshot shows my problem visually from within TrainAsOne. You can see the huge fluctuations in BP over a short period of time.

I have had this problem over the past 2-3 weeks with multiple heart rate monitors, so I doubt that this is hardware-related.

There are only two things that have changed in the 2-3 week time period: I installed a few Beta releases on TestFlight (I have the most current now) and I switched to allow the Heart Monitor devices to connect from TAO rather than directly from my Apple Watch and BlueTooth.

The 180+ heart rate is extremely unlikely for me as it's pretty atypical for me to get above 160 for most runs of this type. This is supported by the TAO data. However, I don't understand what happens once the workout gets to Apple Health.


Any ideas, or anyone else seeing these types of results?




View attachment 2145350 View attachment 2145351View attachment 2145353

I haven't heard of this before. As other people have said it is such a complex set up that the best way to isolate the problem is to make it simpler and gradually make it more complex until you see the issue. Unfortunately only you can do that.

Try looking at the workout in Apple's Health system before you use RunGap to send it to TrainAsOne. It would be useful to know if it changes after sending it on.

If it does change then, as @iamasmith and @MaxSto said, the most likely explanation is that you have another app (probably TrainAsOne) saving heart rate data to Apple's Health system. So it may be worth looking at the settings for that to see if it does save there, and to stop it doing that if you can.

 

[TFeng]

@cfc I am a new user of this app and really like it. However, recently I found the cadence data of running workout is showing zero in Apple Fitness app. But it displays correctly in WOD. Do you know why? Thanks.

I use Apple Watch S7 and all softwares are up-to-date.

 

[cfc]

@cfc I am a new user of this app and really like it. However, recently I found the cadence data of running workout is showing zero in Apple Fitness app. But it displays correctly in WOD. Do you know why? Thanks.

I use Apple Watch S7 and all softwares are up-to-date.

View attachment 2146034

Sorry about the missing average cadence. This seems to be a bug In Apple’s Fitness app. Apps like WorkOutDoors store a list of cadence samples in the Health system and their app should calculate the average from them. The samples are clearly there because the graph is shown, so my assumption is that there is a bug in iOS 16.

 

[TonyFo]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there a way to sync directly to Today's Plan or Training Peaks from Workoutdoors in the same way it does to Strava? I currently use HealthFit to sync, but it doesn't seem to respect the data and shortens the distance (assume to match apple maps or something). The Workoutdoors data seems to be bang on with exactly 5km for a parkrun that has been measured by a proper wheel.

 

[NME42]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there a way to sync directly to Today's Plan or Training Peaks from Workoutdoors in the same way it does to Strava? I currently use HealthFit to sync, but it doesn't seem to respect the data and shortens the distance (assume to match apple maps or something). The Workoutdoors data seems to be bang on with exactly 5km for a parkrun that has been measured by a proper wheel.

Are you using the data that is in Apple Health to sync from HealthFit or do you share the FIT-file from WOD to HealthFit (if that is possible).

As a user of RunGap, my workflow to preserve data from WOD was to share the FIT-file via share sheet to RunGap and from there sync to my backend services. RunGap offers TrainingsPeaks and Today's Plan, might be worth a look. Not really automated but still doable.

 

[havkros]

Hi. Feature request: I’d love it if we could choose a mirrored L screen view. When I run with a jacket the sleeves sometimes cover the metrics on the left side of the screen. If the L had been mirrored over the right side of the screen ( ⅃ ) I’d be able to see everything without having to bother about pulling my sleeve up to see the metrics.

 

[TonyFo]

Are you using the data that is in Apple Health to sync from HealthFit or do you share the FIT-file from WOD to HealthFit (if that is possible).

As a user of RunGap, my workflow to preserve data from WOD was to share the FIT-file via share sheet to RunGap and from there sync to my backend services. RunGap offers TrainingsPeaks and Today's Plan, might be worth a look. Not really automated but still doable.

Yeah I think HealthKit only works from apple health. Ah nice I’ll try rungap again. I played with it early on, but maybe decided against because of the subscription, but well worth it if it works correctly. Thanks for your help.

 

[cfc]

Hi. Feature request: I’d love it if we could choose a mirrored L screen view. When I run with a jacket the sleeves sometimes cover the metrics on the left side of the screen. If the L had been mirrored over the right side of the screen ( ⅃ ) I’d be able to see everything without having to bother about pulling my sleeve up to see the metrics.

I don't think anyone has ever asked for that (until you asked yesterday). I will bear it in mind but my to-do list is order by the number of requests, so it is unlikely in the short to medium term. Sorry.

 

[cfc]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there a way to sync directly to Today's Plan or Training Peaks from Workoutdoors in the same way it does to Strava? I currently use HealthFit to sync, but it doesn't seem to respect the data and shortens the distance (assume to match apple maps or something). The Workoutdoors data seems to be bang on with exactly 5km for a parkrun that has been measured by a proper wheel.

I may add automatic exporting to Training Peaks in the future, like the app does with Strava, because it has become far and away the most requested workout destination (and source of schedules).

However they are currently not accepting new requests from apps to connect because they are rewriting their systems. Plus I am busy on other stuff anyway at the moment.

 

[trentryan]

I may add automatic exporting to Training Peaks in the future, like the app does with Strava, because it has become far and away the most requested workout destination (and source of schedules).

However they are currently not accepting new requests from apps to connect because they are rewriting their systems. Plus I am busy on other stuff anyway at the moment.

I don't use TP, but this would still be nice as we can go TP -> Stryd automatically which would be handy vs syncing with stryd manually.

 

[daanjj]

Has anyone observed any strange data values with Heart Rate in the last few weeks?

I have attached a few screenshots below to illustrate my recurring problem.

The first screen comes from WOD, and in here the Average Heart Rate is 141bpm and the Max is 158.

The second is the same workout by the time it gets to Apple Health, the average is 145 and the max is 181.

The middle graph in the third screenshot shows my problem visually from within TrainAsOne. You can see the huge fluctuations in BP over a short period of time.

I have had this problem over the past 2-3 weeks with multiple heart rate monitors, so I doubt that this is hardware-related.

There are only two things that have changed in the 2-3 week time period: I installed a few Beta releases on TestFlight (I have the most current now) and I switched to allow the Heart Monitor devices to connect from TAO rather than directly from my Apple Watch and BlueTooth.

The 180+ heart rate is extremely unlikely for me as it's pretty atypical for me to get above 160 for most runs of this type. This is supported by the TAO data. However, I don't understand what happens once the workout gets to Apple Health.


Any ideas, or anyone else seeing these types of results?




View attachment 2145350 View attachment 2145351View attachment 2145353

I have another theory: could it be because readings from the HRM and from the AWU itself on the wrist are combined/merged?

I am connecting my Polar H10 HRM directly to WOD and have noticed that sometimes, after passing HealthKit, the heart rates in the workout become a combination of the readings of both the Polar H10 (via WOD) and my AWU (via Apple Health). This often is unnoticeable as the value measured are close. However, my AWU regularly starts measuring my HR erroneously at 180bpm in the first few hundred meters until it drops to a correct level (which is why I use the Polar H10 btw). On shorter runs, this becomes visible in the workout (and also blows up the average HR).
NB I have seen this strange 180bpm starting behaviour with my previous AW7 as well as with the AWU.