Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[Significant1]

Cyclemeter also tracks my hikes really well. It can also track runs, but I'm not into running/jogging - each time I think it'd be a great thing to do for my health I just get bored and wish I was cycling.

Yes, there are 4 variations of. However the watch app is not stand alone, so you are always required to bring your phone, which I don't want to, when I go running.

I think Workoutdoors is best for what it can do and I very much look forward to next update. Not least ability to do indoor workouts.

Now I have a Stryd on the way, so of course I also hope for Stryd support some time in the future.

 

[adrianlondon]

There are four variations but they're actually just the same app in different colours! In other words, one can create a hiking activity in the yellow Cycling app and it works exactly the same way as using it in the dedicated green Hiking version. I don't really know why they do that.

The main reason I like it is for the same reason you don't It uses the phone and does not require the watch. If I had a watch I'd probably buy workoutdoors too.

 

[philipp_chris]

I have some issue with WOD lately (since iOS 12.4, watchOS 5.3). The Workout is stored in health/activity but the Route is missing or just partially there, although it is shown in WOD. One certain workout seems completely lost, the metadata appears in the Activity App but it's not shown at all in WOD. The route is fully missing. Reading https://developer.apple.com/documentation/healthkit/workouts_and_activity_rings/reading_route_data I understand why this might happen.

Could you implement something like a sync button on both, the watch and the phone? Also accessing data of completed workouts on the watch would be nice. This may even make sense with the OS6 changes in mind when something goes wrong with saving the data to Health/Activity

 

[cfc]

I have some issue with WOD lately (since iOS 12.4, watchOS 5.3). The Workout is stored in health/activity but the Route is missing or just partially there, although it is shown in WOD. One certain workout seems completely lost, the metadata appears in the Activity App but it's not shown at all in WOD. The route is fully missing. Reading https://developer.apple.com/documentation/healthkit/workouts_and_activity_rings/reading_route_data I understand why this might happen.

Could you implement something like a sync button on both, the watch and the phone? Also accessing data of completed workouts on the watch would be nice. This may even make sense with the OS6 changes in mind when something goes wrong with saving the data to Health/Activity

When you are having comms problems it is worth rebooting both the watch and the phone in case that helps. However watchOS does seem to occasionally lose the route that is sent to Apple's health system, which is annoying. The route is still in the iPhone app, so if this isn't more stable in watchOS 6 then I may offer some way to add the route from the workout in the iPhone app to the workout in the health system.

The next version of the app will allow you to analyse past workouts on the watch and also to re-send them to the iPhone app for situations where the comms between the watch and the phone was playing up.

 

[maurycyorlik]

Hi there! Could You include me in Your beta list? I've sended You a request on info(at)workoutdoors.net

EDIT: THANK YOU

 

[Cseilern]

When you are having comms problems it is worth rebooting both the watch and the phone in case that helps. However watchOS does seem to occasionally lose the route that is sent to Apple's health system, which is annoying. The route is still in the iPhone app, so if this isn't more stable in watchOS 6 then I may offer some way to add the route from the workout in the iPhone app to the workout in the health system.

The next version of the app will allow you to analyse past workouts on the watch and also to re-send them to the iPhone app for situations where the comms between the watch and the phone was playing up.

Would it be possible to also add a backcountry ski activity type to the existing list of activities? is that a difficult thing?

right now , when I go backcountry skiing, I use the Skiing activity in WOD. But then, when I later upload to Strava, some confusion happens over time as WOD Skiing activities are mixed up with Skiing activities uploaded from other devices (I also use a Fenix 2 which uploads activities labelled Skiing and Backcountry Skiing) - i.e. i end up in Strava with some Skiing activities that are actually backcountry skiing and others that are not simply because they were uploaded by different devices.

 

[cfc]

Would it be possible to also add a backcountry ski activity type to the existing list of activities? is that a difficult thing?

right now , when I go backcountry skiing, I use the Skiing activity in WOD. But then, when I later upload to Strava, some confusion happens over time as WOD Skiing activities are mixed up with Skiing activities uploaded from other devices (I also use a Fenix 2 which uploads activities labelled Skiing and Backcountry Skiing) - i.e. i end up in Strava with some Skiing activities that are actually backcountry skiing and others that are not simply because they were uploaded by different devices.

At the moment the app uses a subset of the activity types provided by Apple, and they only provide a downhill skiing type which does not distinguish between on and off-piste skiing.

However I may add some new types in the future which map to existing types. I have been considering it for a while to distinguish between road and mountain cycling, and road/track and trail running so I will also bear back-country skiing in mind if I do that.

 

[maurycyorlik]

Is it possible to add strength training? It is in AW Training app. In theory I could do a simple training plan in schedules.

For example:
Steady (Name it Bench Press 10x80kg) - set it to manual duration
Recover 1 min
Steady (Name it Bench Press 10x80kg) - set it to manual duration
Recover 1 min

And so on. That Would be great.

P.S. New version blow me away... I've returned my Fenix 6X Pro... This is unbelievable that one guy could make an app, that adds sooooo much to AW when it comes to serious fitness tracking.

AW has one downside - battery - and that's true, but not for me. On longer rides, hikes I always have a GARMIN HRM DUAL on me - that's saves up plenty of AW battery. Second, I always have my iPhone with me, so GPS comes from my iP on the handlebar, plugged to a power bank (on hikes its at the top of a backpack). In those scenarios my AW set has no problem to record even 12 hours long activity with precise GPS and HR. And thats cool.

 

[cfc]

Is it possible to add strength training? It is in AW Training app. In theory I could do a simple training plan in schedules.

For example:
Steady (Name it Bench Press 10x80kg) - set it to manual duration
Recover 1 min
Steady (Name it Bench Press 10x80kg) - set it to manual duration
Recover 1 min

And so on. That Would be great.

P.S. New version blow me away... I've returned my Fenix 6X Pro... This is unbelievable that one guy could make an app, that adds sooooo much to AW when it comes to serious fitness tracking.

AW has one downside - battery - and that's true, but not for me. On longer rides, hikes I always have a GARMIN HRM DUAL on me - that's saves up plenty of AW battery. Second, I always have my iPhone with me, so GPS comes from my iP on the handlebar, plugged to a power bank (on hikes its at the top of a backpack). In those scenarios my AW set has no problem to record even 12 hours long activity with precise GPS and HR. And thats cool.

I am glad that you like the new features in the beta and am very happy to hear that you returned your Fenix 6X Pro as a result! I may add strength training in the future but I want to get it right first. It is a bit like swimming in that there are specific improvements that I would need to add to do it properly. This new version of the app will be the first one to have indoor workouts so I am starting simple first.

In the meantime you could use the "Other Indoor" activity type. This is actually the type that Apple currently recommend using for strength training with their native Workout app on the watch:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207934

I am impressed that you can get 12 hours from the watch with the iPhone present and an external HR belt. Most people seem to get about 9 or 10 hours with the iPhone so it sounds like an external HR belt adds about another 2 or 3 hours, which is very useful to know.

 

[Cseilern]

At the moment the app uses a subset of the activity types provided by Apple, and they only provide a downhill skiing type which does not distinguish between on and off-piste skiing.

However I may add some new types in the future which map to existing types. I have been considering it for a while to distinguish between road and mountain cycling, and road/track and trail running so I will also bear back-country skiing in mind if I do that.

Thanks again for the quick return. That is exactly what I had in mind: not so much a new activity type in itself, but rather an existing one with a new label, simply so that activity labelling remains constant/consistent across other platforms - searching and comparing is easier.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Not that I have any intention of getting one given I have a perfectly functional Series 4...I’ll maybe be a Series 6 updater..but will the compass sensor benefit Workoutdoors in future?? (assuming they have opened up an API to give access to orientation).

I know in certain circumstances (maybe when I stop for a drink but rotate around a bit at a place where there are multiple directions to take) when following a route, I sometimes make the watch not know what direction I’m facing and have to take a bit of a punt for 20 seconds or so on where I’m going next until it picks up my direction.

Having immediate “go this way” confirmation on the map just by rotating on the spot would be pretty cool and give an enhanced user experience.

 

[cfc]

Not that I have any intention of getting one given I have a perfectly functional Series 4...I’ll maybe be a Series 6 updater..but will the compass sensor benefit Workoutdoors in future?? (assuming they have opened up an API to give access to orientation).

I know in certain circumstances (maybe when I stop for a drink but rotate around a bit at a place where there are multiple directions to take) when following a route, I sometimes make the watch not know what direction I’m facing and have to take a bit of a punt for 20 seconds or so on where I’m going next until it picks up my direction.

Having immediate “go this way” confirmation on the map just by rotating on the spot would be pretty cool and give an enhanced user experience.

I am going to try out the new compass with the app when I get my AW5. As you say it should be an improvement on the current synthesised compass in two ways: it should show the direction you are facing instead of the direction you are moving, which is useful when stopped; and it wouldn't require you to move a bit at the beginning of the workout in order for it to determine which way you are travelling.

So it should help but I don't think it will make a massive difference. A lot of users assume that the watch has a compass because of the synthesised compass, and are surprised when I say that it hasn't. Although to be fair these conversations are usually initiated by the fact that they have noticed one of the downsides of the synthesised compass!

I am interested to see how it works with magnetic straps like the leather loop though. I will be making the physical compass optional if it is available. The current plan is that the app will default to using it, but I will see how it goes. If lots of people start complaining that the compass doesn't work well, and it turns out to be due to magnetic straps, then I will make it default to the synthesised compass!

I am also interesting in what effect the always on screen will have. I have seen conflicting reports as to whether it shows 3rd party apps when your wrist is not raised. I hope that it does, because that would be useful, but part of me is worried what effect it will have on battery life if the app is constantly on display.

If I were Apple then I would default to not showing 3rd party apps always on at first, but allow developers to test how their apps run if they are always on. The developers could then make their apps tell a future version of watchOS that they work even when in always on mode. As I developer I want my app to be always on, but I would prefer to check how it operates in that mode myself before users get to try it out.

 

[philipp_chris]

Wouldn't you mind providing some updates on the development

S5 features are interesting for sure, will probably get one later this year. But as mentioned earlier, stryd support is much more anticipated.

I’m currently on vacation and used WOD for several hikes of 5 to 8 hours length for navigation and it never let me down. Thanks!

Btw, restarting everything actually fixes the route saving issue. ”have you tried turning it off and on again”

 

[cfc]

Wouldn't you mind providing some updates on the development

S5 features are interesting for sure, will probably get one later this year. But as mentioned earlier, stryd support is much more anticipated.

I’m currently on vacation and used WOD for several hikes of 5 to 8 hours length for navigation and it never let me down. Thanks!

Btw, restarting everything actually fixes the route saving issue. ”have you tried turning it off and on again”

I hate it when I have to give the standard IT (crowd) response, but it often works!

I was hoping for native Stryd (and other sensor) support in watchOS 6, and even held out some hope for it to be announced last week, but now that Apple haven't done it for me I guess I will have to write it myself! I have a Stryd footpod and so will start looking into it in the next few months.

My current focus is on the new version of the app, which should be released on Thursday (the same day as iOS 13 / watchOS 6). Thanks to everyone who has helped to test it!

 

[philipp_chris]

Don't worry, working in IT for many years, this remains the problem solver #1. It was just too close to the update that it occurred.

Looking forward to the update!

 

[rbart]

One small question
When the watch has a built on altimeter, do you use it for displaying ascent data ?

 

[cfc]

One small question
When the watch has a built on altimeter, do you use it for displaying ascent data ?

Yes, the app will automatically use the barometric sensor if available. It actually uses a combination of that and the GPS to determine altitude. The barometric sensor only shows relative altitude so it needs a base value to determine absolute altitude. This is reset on every resume after a pause.

 

[philipp_chris]

Interesting. So would poor GPS have an impact on altitude values?

Resets after every pause means that it reads the altitude from GPS and then takes the barometric to update it?

I think this explains some weird readings that I got.

 

[user1234]

Apple has a support document on calibrating the watch for improved workouts, and ot continously calibrates every time a workout is done (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516).

Since WorkOutDoors is using official workout APIs I assume it should continously calibrate when using WorkOutDoors as well? Otherwise I would have to use Workouts every once in a while, and that would kinda suck.

 

[cfc]

Interesting. So would poor GPS have an impact on altitude values?

Resets after every pause means that it reads the altitude from GPS and then takes the barometric to update it?

I think this explains some weird readings that I got.

Poor GPS would indeed affect the absolute altitude metric, but only that metric. It would not affect the relative altitude or the ascent / descent figures because those metrics all come from the barometric sensor. The reason that the absolute metric uses the GPS is because the barometric sensor can only detect changes in air pressure and use that to determine your altitude relative to when it started taking air pressure readings. So to know the absolute altitude you need to use the GPS.

However because the barometric sensor is more accurate than GPS the app only uses the GPS altitude at the start (and after each pause) and then calculates the absolute altitude using that baseline and the relative change from the barometric sensor in the period since. Otherwise there could be an inconsistency between the relative and absolute altitude figures.

The problem with the barometric sensor is that changes in air pressure that are not due to altitude can also affect the readings. For example when a weather front comes in. So if you were to pause for a while as the air pressure changed then your absolute readings could get more inaccurate. This is why the app resets the baseline used to calculate the absolute altitude on resuming after a pause.

None of the figures will be perfect, because the sensors are not perfect. GPS is inaccurate for vertical positions and the barometric sensor is affected by weather changes. But the app tries to do the best it can with the available data.

Apologies for the long explanation!
[doublepost=1568537439][/doublepost]

Apple has a support document on calibrating the watch for improved workouts, and ot continously calibrates every time a workout is done (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516).

Since WorkOutDoors is using official workout APIs I assume it should continously calibrate when using WorkOutDoors as well? Otherwise I would have to use Workouts every once in a while, and that would kinda suck.

I wish I knew if workouts in 3rd party apps are used to calibrate the watch. Unfortunately I haven't found anything anywhere that confirms or denies it.

One thing I can say is that you should be careful when choosing the activity type for a workout. I have heard of people using the running activity type with Apple's Workout app when they are actually cross country skiing or when they are roller blading. This has caused the watch to think that they have incredibly long strides and therefore affected the distance estimates when they do actually go running and use WorkOutDoors.

So if anyone does a similar sport then in theory they could determine if 3rd party apps like WorkOutDoors do affect the calibration. Although if you try this then make sure to reset the watch calibration before relying on the distances!

 

[miksuad]

Thanks for the great app. I've been using it for the last few months almost daily and I really appreciate the features and the customization options.

There's just one thing I would like to see implemented: A configuration option which would allow me to start all my trainings in paused mode. This would have the nice benefit that the clock could start tracking HR and GPS earlier and when I actually start running, I get correct values straight away when I resume the exercise.

Currently for the races I start the exercise, immediately select pause and when the starting shot is fired, I resume.

 

[philipp_chris]

I’m not sure if this will fix the heart rate readings in the beginning, cause when you pause the training HR goes off afaik.

For GPS however, this would be great for racing as it loses the signal every time the display goes off when you haven't started the activity.

Auto waterlock would also be nice as winter is coming
[doublepost=1568559804][/doublepost]Just wondering how this method would work in bigger races where you have to crawl a couple of hundred meters to the starting line.

But that's all just high level convenience crying.

 

[NME42]

Hello, I am a potential Apple Watch newbie and would be happy, if you can give me some feedback.
Already asked Ian about Workoutdoors some questions and he was fantastically helpful.

To my background: I am an experienced runner coming from the Garmin ecosystem. Doing about 15-20 hours a week of training with a distribution of 8 hours running, 4 hours strength and the rest is cycling.
My current watch is a Garmin Forerunner 945 and though I am more or less happy with the watch itself, I am not happy with the ecosystem of Garmin and especially their lack of progress concerning smartwatch features and the multitude of bugs that are piling up and up and up.

So I came to the conclusion to leave the Garmin ecosystem and my favorite watch is the AW. After the keynote and always on feature, my decision is now about 90% sure to order an AW5 cellular.

I only have one concern and hope for your feedback. Yes, obviously battery life, this is the one thing a Garmin user is fearful of.

Say I do charge my AW at night, wake up at 6am and want to go for a 2 hours run at 6pm in the evening. Will the watch have enough power for the run? Assume that I will use the AW throughout the day mostly for checking notifications and during the run I want to hear a podcast via bluetooth headset. I will use a bluetooth heart rate monitor also, most probably Polar H10. Cellular would be switched on to be reachable. Do not want to take my iPhone with me.

Would appreciate your responses. Thank you.

 

[user1234]

Hello, I am a potential Apple Watch newbie and would be happy, if you can give me some feedback.
Already asked Ian about Workoutdoors some questions and he was fantastically helpful.

To my background: I am an experienced runner coming from the Garmin ecosystem. Doing about 15-20 hours a week of training with a distribution of 8 hours running, 4 hours strength and the rest is cycling.
My current watch is a Garmin Forerunner 945 and though I am more or less happy with the watch itself, I am not happy with the ecosystem of Garmin and especially their lack of progress concerning smartwatch features and the multitude of bugs that are piling up and up and up.

So I came to the conclusion to leave the Garmin ecosystem and my favorite watch is the AW. After the keynote and always on feature, my decision is now about 90% sure to order an AW5 cellular.

I only have one concern and hope for your feedback. Yes, obviously battery life, this is the one thing a Garmin user is fearful of.

Say I do charge my AW at night, wake up at 6am and want to go for a 2 hours run at 6pm in the evening. Will the watch have enough power for the run? Assume that I will use the AW throughout the day mostly for checking notifications and during the run I want to hear a podcast via bluetooth headset. I will use a bluetooth heart rate monitor also, most probably Polar H10. Cellular would be switched on to be reachable. Do not want to take my iPhone with me.

Would appreciate your responses. Thank you.

I would say yes. I have the 44mm S4, which is supposed to have similar battery life as the S5. If I charge it to 100% I get two days of use with 40 minutes of exercise using WorkOutDoors every day, and I still have 20% or so left and the end of the second day. A full day with two hours of exercise shouldn't be a problem at all, at least not with the 44mm and probably not with the 40mm either. A bluetooth heart rate monitor should also help with battery life as the built in monitor doesn't have to be on.

 

[rbart]

Hello, I am a potential Apple Watch newbie and would be happy, if you can give me some feedback.
Already asked Ian about Workoutdoors some questions and he was fantastically helpful.

To my background: I am an experienced runner coming from the Garmin ecosystem. Doing about 15-20 hours a week of training with a distribution of 8 hours running, 4 hours strength and the rest is cycling.
My current watch is a Garmin Forerunner 945 and though I am more or less happy with the watch itself, I am not happy with the ecosystem of Garmin and especially their lack of progress concerning smartwatch features and the multitude of bugs that are piling up and up and up.

So I came to the conclusion to leave the Garmin ecosystem and my favorite watch is the AW. After the keynote and always on feature, my decision is now about 90% sure to order an AW5 cellular.

I only have one concern and hope for your feedback. Yes, obviously battery life, this is the one thing a Garmin user is fearful of.

Say I do charge my AW at night, wake up at 6am and want to go for a 2 hours run at 6pm in the evening. Will the watch have enough power for the run? Assume that I will use the AW throughout the day mostly for checking notifications and during the run I want to hear a podcast via bluetooth headset. I will use a bluetooth heart rate monitor also, most probably Polar H10. Cellular would be switched on to be reachable. Do not want to take my iPhone with me.

Would appreciate your responses. Thank you.

No problem.
My watch always lasts from 6am to the moment I sleep. With sometimes 2H / 2.30H of running activity