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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
Great app! Is it expected WorkOutDoors workouts don’t count for Apple Fitness awards and challenges?

This is for walking workouts which didn’t count for this months challenge, nor did they register for 7-workout week award, I had to revert to Apple Workout for them to count.
It seems that a few of the awards require workouts to be created by Apple's native app and will not take into account workouts created by third party apps like WorkOutDoors.

Unfortunately there isn't any way around it. Sorry about that, but glad you like the app!
 

Mauro42K

macrumors newbie
Dec 9, 2023
5
6
Last weekend I ran a half marathon in NY, at my wife's pace, so I took it very relaxed. But I had a problem that had never occurred to me… if you see in the images I was running below sea level until approximately 14K…. There you can see a drop of 783 meters (something that is clearly impossible to see in Central Park) and then the height was 500 meters above sea level…. some calibration or height calculation with the barometer because at more or less that height the climate changed (it went from heavy rain to stopping rain). I have a UW and in setting Use Always on Altimeter is disabled. I share some photos
 

Mauro42K

macrumors newbie
Dec 9, 2023
5
6
IMG_0873.jpeg
IMG_0872.jpeg

Last weekend I ran a half marathon in NY, at my wife's pace, so I took it very relaxed. But I had a problem that had never occurred to me… if you see in the images I was running below sea level until approximately 14K…. There you can see a drop of 783 meters (something that is clearly impossible to see in Central Park) and then the height was 500 meters above sea level…. some calibration or height calculation with the barometer because at more or less that height the climate changed (it went from heavy rain to stopping rain). I have a UW and in setting Use Always on Altimeter is disabled. I share some photos
IMG_0874.jpeg
 

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assquatch

macrumors member
Jul 22, 2021
98
68
Forgive me if this is answered in the thread but I am wondering if WOD should, or can, output workouts to the fitness app. If I recall, other 3rd party workout apps like strava and peloton will record something there.

I accidentally used WOD without full health permissions, most importantly, did not let it have heart rate access, so maybe thats why it didn't work.
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
Forgive me if this is answered in the thread but I am wondering if WOD should, or can, output workouts to the fitness app. If I recall, other 3rd party workout apps like strava and peloton will record something there.

I accidentally used WOD without full health permissions, most importantly, did not let it have heart rate access, so maybe thats why it didn't work.
Yes, WOD uses Apple's workout system, so all workouts are automatically saved in their Health system.

This means that they are visible in their Fitness and Health apps (and any other apps that access the Health system).

So yes, the app requires all the health permissions. For some reason if you pick and choose which permissions to give then unpredictable things happen, so I always recommend giving all the permissions.
 
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assquatch

macrumors member
Jul 22, 2021
98
68
Yes, WOD uses Apple's workout system, so all workouts are automatically saved in their Health system.

This means that they are visible in their Fitness and Health apps (and any other apps that access the Health system).
Thanks. It must be my messed up health permissions then. I'll give it another try.
 
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Roger39

macrumors newbie
Sep 29, 2020
2
1
Great app! Is it expected WorkOutDoors workouts don’t count for Apple Fitness awards and challenges?

This is for walking workouts which didn’t count for this months challenge, nor did they register for 7-workout week award, I had to revert to Apple Workout for them to count.
That is odd. I have used WOD for many years and have never had a walking/hiking workout fail to be credited for award or challenge (distance, time or calories).
 
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noel18

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2021
110
131
Is it just me or does heart rate recovery never get logged into the health app? A few times a year it will randomly log but I don’t know what I’ve done differently on those runs. My Garmins recorded recovery as long as you paused the run, waited 2 mins until it popped up the message showing your recovery before actually ending the run. This is how I do my runs in WOD too. I pause the run and sit down and one my HR has dropped to around 100bpm I’ll end/save the run. Maybe I need to be pausing and then ending/saving the run right away and then sit on the curb for two mins after saving. I will try this today. Just curious if anyone else has noticed this.
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
Is it just me or does heart rate recovery never get logged into the health app? A few times a year it will randomly log but I don’t know what I’ve done differently on those runs. My Garmins recorded recovery as long as you paused the run, waited 2 mins until it popped up the message showing your recovery before actually ending the run. This is how I do my runs in WOD too. I pause the run and sit down and one my HR has dropped to around 100bpm I’ll end/save the run. Maybe I need to be pausing and then ending/saving the run right away and then sit on the curb for two mins after saving. I will try this today. Just curious if anyone else has noticed this.
The app doesn't specifically do anything with heart rate recovery because it happens after a workout has ended. I do see values in Apple Health but only every couple of weeks, which is much more often than you but definitely not after every workout. I assume Apple only calculate it under certain conditions.
 

jon08

macrumors 68000
Nov 14, 2008
1,887
105
I've been testing a bit Garmin Epix Pro vs AW7 with WOD.

On a recent hike, my AW7 gave me 100% precise elevation gain info (both starting point and end point were accurate to 1 m), while Epix Pro disappointingly showed 10 m less total elevation gain, although I use the most accurate settings with all satellites + multi band + every second recording on Garmin.

Supposedly, it's pretty much impossible that AW7 with classic GPS could beat dual band GPS, right? Since I had my iPhone 15 Pro with me, the accurate results must've been due to AW using the phone's dual band GPS? From what I understand, iPhone 14 & 15 Pro series have been equipped with dual-band GPS, so Apple Watches 7 and older will still be piggybacking iPhone's GPS, which will presumably be in dual-band mode by default?
 

rbart

macrumors 65816
Nov 3, 2013
1,333
1,102
France
I am not 100% sure for WOD, but elevation is not calculated with GPS but with altimeter.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
I've been testing a bit Garmin Epix Pro vs AW7 with WOD.

On a recent hike, my AW7 gave me 100% precise elevation gain info (both starting point and end point were accurate to 1 m), while Epix Pro disappointingly showed 10 m less total elevation gain, although I use the most accurate settings with all satellites + multi band + every second recording on Garmin.

Supposedly, it's pretty much impossible that AW7 with classic GPS could beat dual band GPS, right? Since I had my iPhone 15 Pro with me, the accurate results must've been due to AW using the phone's dual band GPS? From what I understand, iPhone 14 & 15 Pro series have been equipped with dual-band GPS, so Apple Watches 7 and older will still be piggybacking iPhone's GPS, which will presumably be in dual-band mode by default?
As @rbart says the app doesn't use GPS for altitude but instead uses the barometer or the altimeter. The barometer only gives relative elevation, so it uses the GPS for absolute elevation, but elevation gain is calculated from relative elevation anyway, so GPS is not used.

To be honest there are many more factors than sensor accuracy when calculating the elevation gain. It is one of those algorithms that is far more complex than it would seem at first sight. I am glad that WOD is giving more accurate values than the Epix Pro, but some people may find the reverse due to the number of compromises involved.

It is especially difficult to calculate elevation gain on relatively flat routes because of the need to ignore sensor glitches, which are hard to differentiate from real elevation changes. They are insignificant on a hilly route but make things difficult when the route is relatively flat.

So I wouldn't worry about a 10m difference. If it was on a hilly route then that is a relatively small difference, and if it was a flat route then the difficulties make it an understandable difference. I am glad that WOD seems better in this situation but that could just be down to luck.
 
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noel18

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2021
110
131
The app doesn't specifically do anything with heart rate recovery because it happens after a workout has ended. I do see values in Apple Health but only every couple of weeks, which is much more often than you but definitely not after every workout. I assume Apple only calculate it under certain conditions.
I assumed the app wasn’t responsible for it, I was more or less curious if other people had the same experience. For the past three runs I switched up my routine where I pause and then immediately end the run and it’s recorded a recovery every time. It would be cool if WOD could give you a 2min count down and display your HR after ending a run. This is similar to what Garmin does.

I suspect all these running readiness apps heavily rely on the HR recovery and if it never gets recorded I feel like these apps are kind of useless.

It’s odd that I used to be able to simply pause a run and wait a few minutes before saving and it would still record the recovery.
 
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noel18

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2021
110
131
I assumed the app wasn’t responsible for it, I was more or less curious if other people had the same experience. For the past three runs I switched up my routine where I pause and then immediately end the run and it’s recorded a recovery every time. It would be cool if WOD could give you a 2min count down and display your HR after ending a run. This is similar to what Garmin does.

I suspect all these running readiness apps heavily rely on the HR recovery and if it never gets recorded I feel like these apps are kind of useless.

It’s odd that I used to be able to simply pause a run and wait a few minutes before saving and it would still record the recovery.
What is odd is my old routine of pausing the run and then cooling down for 2 mins before ending it would always show the recovery if you opened the activity in the Fitness app but never logs it in the HealthApp. So it isn't like Apple isn't always watching, even if I haven't actually ended the run in WOD. I feel like this is a bug that was introduced by Apple. Looking back in my data it looks like this behavior changed early in August of 2022 (iOS 16 released in September of 22, my guess is I switched to 16 beta early in August). Before that it would log a recovery after every single run, even if I didn't end the run right after pausing. I'm going to report this to Apple but I doubt anything will come of it.
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
What is odd is my old routine of pausing the run and then cooling down for 2 mins before ending it would always show the recovery if you opened the activity in the Fitness app but never logs it in the HealthApp. So it isn't like Apple isn't always watching, even if I haven't actually ended the run in WOD. I feel like this is a bug that was introduced by Apple. Looking back in my data it looks like this behavior changed early in August of 2022 (iOS 16 released in September of 22, my guess is I switched to 16 beta early in August). Before that it would log a recovery after every single run, even if I didn't end the run right after pausing. I'm going to report this to Apple but I doubt anything will come of it.
To be honest it's rare that anyone ever mentions recovery heart rates to me so I don't know if anything changed with iOS 16. However it sounds like the sort of possibly unintentional change that would be most likely to happen with a major release.
 

Backe

macrumors newbie
Feb 7, 2024
5
3
I seem to get recovery heart rate every time using WOD. Once finished a run, i keep the summary page open for at least 2 minutes, then clock done.

The only issue is if I forget to click done, then next time I log a run, it has happened that the app crashed after 1 km. Coincidence perhaps, but I try and manage it by those rules and it seem to work.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
I seem to get recovery heart rate every time using WOD. Once finished a run, i keep the summary page open for at least 2 minutes, then clock done.

The only issue is if I forget to click done, then next time I log a run, it has happened that the app crashed after 1 km. Coincidence perhaps, but I try and manage it by those rules and it seem to work.
I haven't heard of any crashes recently. Are you using the latest version of watchOS? There was a rare crash in their text to speech system which the app uses to speak voice alerts, but they fixed that with 10.2.
 

Backe

macrumors newbie
Feb 7, 2024
5
3
I should clarify, this happened 2 times in October/November. So before 10.2. It was exactly what you said, speak voice alerts. It has not crashed since, but I thought it was because I was so good at remembering the "done" button at the summary page ha ha

Anyway, the recovery heart rate seems ok when I leave that open. Not sure that will make any difference, but I told myself this many years ago when I had the same issue and it seems to be working since.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
I should clarify, this happened 2 times in October/November. So before 10.2. It was exactly what you said, speak voice alerts. It has not crashed since, but I thought it was because I was so good at remembering the "done" button at the summary page ha ha

Anyway, the recovery heart rate seems ok when I leave that open. Not sure that will make any difference, but I told myself this many years ago when I had the same issue and it seems to be working since.
That's good to hear!
 

noel18

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2021
110
131
I seem to get recovery heart rate every time using WOD. Once finished a run, i keep the summary page open for at least 2 minutes, then clock done.

The only issue is if I forget to click done, then next time I log a run, it has happened that the app crashed after 1 km. Coincidence perhaps, but I try and manage it by those rules and it seem to work.
Yes, if I use this rutiun I get a recovery. My old rutien was to pause but not end the run. I did it this way because it leaves the metrics up so I can still see my HR. If I end the run I get the summery page and can no longer watch my HR drop. Also, on my Garmin watches it would only record a recovery if you paused for at least 2 mins before ending. So this is a habit I’ve carried over from 13 years of running. It’s a hard habit to break and what sucks is my HR drops rapidly in the first few seconds between the time I pause and then end the run so my recovery rate can be wildly different depending on how quick I remember to end the run. Garmin has been in this game long enough to know that recovery needs to be triggered by the pause, not the end. At a crowded finish line at the end of a race I’m going to use the physical buttons to end the race, move out of the finishing area and then fumble with the menu to end the run. In that scenario the recovery rate will be meaningless because it can take a few minutes sometimes just to get to a safe area to play with the watch. Apple clearly doesn’t have runners on their dev team that actually use an Apple Watch or at least not at races.
 

noel18

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2021
110
131
I should clarify, this happened 2 times in October/November. So before 10.2. It was exactly what you said, speak voice alerts. It has not crashed since, but I thought it was because I was so good at remembering the "done" button at the summary page ha ha

Anyway, the recovery heart rate seems ok when I leave that open. Not sure that will make any difference, but I told myself this many years ago when I had the same issue and it seems to be working since.
I don’t think the summery page is the key because I’ve been clicking done and then after it uploads to Strava (I have LTE) and drops back to the main menu, I switch to the HR app to watch my HR drop. It’s ending the run that ends the “workout” session in Apple’s system and also triggers Fitness focus to end and this is where Apple (not WOD) starts tracking the recovery.

BTW, I also got the TTS crash 2 times before wOS 10.2 was released. Hasn’t happened since. I’ve been using WOD for 3.5 years and those were the only 2 times I’ve had it crash which is actually a better track record than my Garmin watches. Hahaha.
 
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Backe

macrumors newbie
Feb 7, 2024
5
3
Interesting. I will try next time to click done straight away to see if it still records it.

Great to hear that they resolved the TTS crash. It's the only time WOD has crashed for me. The apple workout has crashed a few time, but stopped using it and probably used WOD about the same time as you. Rock solid.

On finish workout, I generally start and finish at the same place so use the auto finish within 20m from start. I guess this will not really be good enough for races though.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
I don’t think the summery page is the key because I’ve been clicking done and then after it uploads to Strava (I have LTE) and drops back to the main menu, I switch to the HR app to watch my HR drop. It’s ending the run that ends the “workout” session in Apple’s system and also triggers Fitness focus to end and this is where Apple (not WOD) starts tracking the recovery.

BTW, I also got the TTS crash 2 times before wOS 10.2 was released. Hasn’t happened since. I’ve been using WOD for 3.5 years and those were the only 2 times I’ve had it crash which is actually a better track record than my Garmin watches. Hahaha.
I agree that it is not the summary page because, as you say, the workout is saved to Apple's Health system when it is ended and that is when they start recording the recovery information. So it should be recording the recovery whilst the summary is displayed and will continue to record it regardless of what WOD is doing.

It sounds like watchOS doesn't record the recovery if you end the workout after your heart rate has already dropped. This makes sense from a logical point of view, but I can see why you want to start recording it when there is a pause, because pausing is often configured to be easier than ending, especially at the end of a race. They can always discard the recovery data if you resume the workout rather than ending it.

It is quite a special case scenario that is dictated by the fact that it can be hard to end a workout after a race if it requires looking at the screen.

With the Ultra you can configure 3 different button combinations, so you may want to make the Crown & Side Button option end the workout, whilst keeping the Action & Side Button combination for pausing/resuming. It is quite awkward to press both at the same time, but still doesn't require the screen to be viewed.

Or maybe configure the action button to Pause/Resume and the Action + Side button to end the workout.

With other Apple Watches there is only one physical button combination (side button + crown), so you can't configure separate physical buttons for pausing and ending, which is where starting the recovery on a pause would be particularly useful.
 
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