Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[noel18]

Reading through comments on YT from DC Rainmaker, he says the new training load data will work on 3rd party apps as long as the use WorkoutKit. So runs tracked with WOD will influence the training load and you can also go into the Fitness app and select a run done in WOD and then override the effort level if you need/want to.

It's so tempting to test out this beta but I think I should hold off a few weeks. Errr

 

[ILoveLavaLamps]

WOD is great training app. So many ways to configure. I only miss 2 things to make this app extraordinary for me

Possible to use “target workout“ or ghost run (running against old workout). I would like to compete against an old running workout now and then. I now I can set pace, but when running hilly, it would be better with old workout.

And when I do some weight lifting, I would like to be able to see steps. I like to have active rest, so steps would be great to be able to configure in screens.

 

[cfc]

Reading through comments on YT from DC Rainmaker, he says the new training load data will work on 3rd party apps as long as the use WorkoutKit. So runs tracked with WOD will influence the training load and you can also go into the Fitness app and select a run done in WOD and then override the effort level if you need/want to.

It's so tempting to test out this beta but I think I should hold off a few weeks. Errr

I don't recommend installing a first beta on your "daily driver" watch. I have installed it on a test watch but not really tried it yet. I have learnt from past years where I have tried it on day one and been worried by bugs that Apple soon fixed in later betas. So I tend to ignore new versions of watchOS until at least beta 3 or 4.

I was a bit confused by what DC Rainmaker said about WorkoutKit. As far as I know that is a new framework introduced last year for custom workouts (interval schedules) and other workouts with specific targets. I think from his phrasing that he meant HealthKit, which provides the APIs which most workout apps (including WorkOutDoors) use to create workouts.

It would be an easy mistake given the naming of the frameworks, but Ray rarely makes mistakes so I could be wrong. It could be that the training load metrics are only supplied for workouts created with such targets or schedules. I hope not though.

 

[cfc]

WOD is great training app. So many ways to configure. I only miss 2 things to make this app extraordinary for me

Possible to use “target workout“ or ghost run (running against old workout). I would like to compete against an old running workout now and then. I now I can set pace, but when running hilly, it would be better with old workout.

And when I do some weight lifting, I would like to be able to see steps. I like to have active rest, so steps would be great to be able to configure in screens.

The next version of the app will have the ability to compete against a previous workout. I have added 78 new metrics for the values in the target workout at the time, and for how the current values compare with them.

For example you will be able to see the BPM in the target workout at the same time, as well as the difference in BPM with your current BPM, and the percentage difference. There are also metrics comparing your workout average BPM with the target workout average BPM. And the same for pace, speed, power, cadence, stride length, vertical oscillation, ground contact time, hr/pace/power zones etc. It's probably overkill but that's not unusual for WOD...

I haven't really thought about steps for indoor workouts other than running/walking but it is feasible so I will bear it in mind in the future. Possibly when I add the ability to create custom activity types.

 

[Mauki]

What do you think of the update? The biggest disappointment or lack of understanding for me is that the training app for running, navigation, etc. has not been updated at all.

That's why we all use WOD.

 

[cfc]

What do you think of the update? The biggest disappointment or lack of understanding for me is that the training app for running, navigation, etc. has not been updated at all.

That's why we all use WOD.

From my (selfish) point of view it was great. I think that they improved things but not in areas that affect WorkOutDoors. From what I can tell so far the new training load and effort functionality should improve the overall appeal of the Apple Watch for health and fitness users, but without diminishing the benefits of getting WOD.

I was also very interested in the new hiking route creation functionality because I wasn't sure if it would affect the app positively or negatively, but overall I don't think that it makes much difference. I think that may change eventually given the increasing improvements that Apple are making in that direction, but hopefully there will still be a place for the ultra-configurability of WOD.

 

[ILoveLavaLamps]

The next version of the app will have the ability to compete against a previous workout. I have added 78 new metrics for the values in the target workout at the time, and for how the current values compare with them.

For example you will be able to see the BPM in the target workout at the same time, as well as the difference in BPM with your current BPM, and the percentage difference. There are also metrics comparing your workout average BPM with the target workout average BPM. And the same for pace, speed, power, cadence, stride length, vertical oscillation, ground contact time, hr/pace/power zones etc. It's probably overkill but that's not unusual for WOD...

It's just amazing, if this can be part of next release. Great that you are active in forum, and listen for ideas for new functionality. WOD is the reason I left Garmin after many years. Nothing bad with Garmin, but I like the Apple Watch better as my daily watch.

Thanks for an amazing app!

(English is not my first language. So there may be a risk of typos )

 

[noel18]

I have learnt from past years where I have tried it on day one and been worried by bugs that Apple soon fixed in later betas. So I tend to ignore new versions of watchOS until at least beta 3 or 4.

That's always been my rule too. If we had a way to downgrade the watch, I'd consider jumping sooner. This update is just so much more tempting than past updates because Apple seems to have finally started taking fitness serious. Or at least started laying some groundwork.

 

[noel18]

hopefully there will still be a place for the ultra-configurability of WOD.

Considering Apple hates configurability, I think there will always be a place for WOD. I did my past two runs with the default Workout app and it's so hard to read. The one thing I've noticed is the current pace in the Workout app seems very stable, yet still responsive. I need to revisit my settings in WOD to see if I can get something similar in WOD. If I recall I am using the pedometer with a rolling 30sec average so it's stable, but not that responsive. I also noticed that when I run with the Workout app and then sync to Strava with HealthFit, the pace is very smooth. I then deleted one of my runs from Strava that had been uploaded from WOD and then re-uploaded that run with HealthFit and the pace looks smoother than it did when being uploaded directly from Strava. I figured they would be identical. I'm curious where the smoothing is happening. I am guessing Strava is handling the FIT file different when being uploaded from HealthFit.

 

[JohnTheBaton]

I’ve tested the new Apple Watch mapping features on a 12 mile hike yesterday, and after waiting for native navigation on the Apple Watch for years, I’m happier than ever that we have WorkOutDoors! I appreciate that Apple is putting in some effort, but it feels to me like the software developers aren’t actually hikers. A few examples: Your waypoints in the compass app don’t show up in the maps app. You can add “pins” in the iOS maps app that do eventually appear on the watch app, but they are not waypoints (i.e. no way to change the icon or the color). And when you do “target” the waypoint, it is only in the compass app, with a direct line of sight distance. There is no way to then navigate to the compass waypoint in the maps app. Also, the Apple topo maps lack many of the landmarks that the Thunderforest maps include. There is no way to import GPX files; routes need to be manually created in the maps app, and it can only connect pre-existing lines (i.e. no off-course route making). Finally, there is no way I have found to see remaining distance on the route (based on the route, not on your original distance estimate). One other annoyance: I can’t seem to orient the watch map to the compass when routing.

In addition, I‘m having to constantly switch between three apps to get the info I need; the workout app for distance/time/heart rate, the compass app for waypoints (with no maps and direct line-of-sight distances), and the maps app for routing and elevation profile (with no waypoints).

I realize that this is early beta software, and in a few years from now there might be more integration. But that’s the point; it’s still a few years away. I‘ve had an Apple Watch Ultra for 2.5 years now and I STILL can’t do the basic navigation functions that my old Garmin GPS device could do 15 years ago!

Contrast this to WorkOutDoors, where I can see the map, time, distance, and heart rate all on one screen, and I can map the buttons in a way that enables me to access everything I need with the touchscreen off (this is really useful when hiking in the rain). I can zoom way out quickly and smoothly, and use the compass to “align” the map with my surroundings to better orient myself. And I find myself “fiddling“ much less with my watch; I can just glance down and get the info I need on 1-2 screens.

All to say I am so glad we will see navigation features come to WorkoutDoors later this year. This will finally be the “holy grail” year for me; a rugged watch with a smooth scrolling topo map (sorry Garmin, your maps are just too slow to refresh), that will show me my upcoming elevation profile and distance to the next waypoint/end, and lets me decide what information is on the main screen.

 

[noel18]

it feels to me like the software developers aren’t actually hikers.

....or runners (especially not runners who do races), or swimmers and especially not cyclists. The term used in software is dogfooding. It's where developers actually use their own software. It does not feel like Apple dogfoods any of the fitness apps.

 

[cfc]

Considering Apple hates configurability, I think there will always be a place for WOD. I did my past two runs with the default Workout app and it's so hard to read. The one thing I've noticed is the current pace in the Workout app seems very stable, yet still responsive. I need to revisit my settings in WOD to see if I can get something similar in WOD. If I recall I am using the pedometer with a rolling 30sec average so it's stable, but not that responsive. I also noticed that when I run with the Workout app and then sync to Strava with HealthFit, the pace is very smooth. I then deleted one of my runs from Strava that had been uploaded from WOD and then re-uploaded that run with HealthFit and the pace looks smoother than it did when being uploaded directly from Strava. I figured they would be identical. I'm curious where the smoothing is happening. I am guessing Strava is handling the FIT file different when being uploaded from HealthFit.

I generally recommend the pedometer for current pace and most people have no need for smoothing. However the Health option improved a couple of years ago when Apple started providing a "Running speed" metric, so you may find that better reflects what you see with Apple's app.

Using that option may also remove the differences in pace graphs that you are seeing because HealthFit will be using the pace values stored in Apple's Health system rather than those supplied by the pedometer.

 

[noel18]

I generally recommend the pedometer for current pace and most people have no need for smoothing. However the Health option improved a couple of years ago when Apple started providing a "Running speed" metric, so you may find that better reflects what you see with Apple's app.

Using that option may also remove the differences in pace graphs that you are seeing because HealthFit will be using the pace values stored in Apple's Health system rather than those supplied by the pedometer.

Thanks for the tips.. I'll give this a shot tomorrow morning.

 

[kabzior]

I appreciate that Apple is putting in some effort, but it feels to me like the software developers aren’t actually hikers.

No, they definitely are not... or maybe they are, but decisions are made by people who value something other than the expectations of hikers.
I understand if they were struggling to create something new, groundbreaking, something that no one had ever done before, and they were getting there in small steps. But we have had solutions for over a decade now and it is obvious what people expect - it can be done in different ways, but the core remains the same. And for 2 years now we still have an outdoor watch without basic outdoor functions.
In fact, I think the decision makers mentioned above know that hardware will sell anyway, regardless of the built-in software, so it's better to let independent developers make good app and take a 30% commission on its sales than to bundle it with the hardware for free.

 

[cfc]

No, they definitely are not... or maybe they are, but decisions are made by people who value something other than the expectations of hikers.
I understand if they were struggling to create something new, groundbreaking, something that no one had ever done before, and they were getting there in small steps. But we have had solutions for over a decade now and it is obvious what people expect - it can be done in different ways, but the core remains the same. And for 2 years now we still have an outdoor watch without basic outdoor functions.
In fact, I think the decision makers mentioned above know that hardware will sell anyway, regardless of the built-in software, so it's better to let independent developers make good app and take a 30% commission on its sales than to bundle it with the hardware for free.

I think Apple are aiming to provide what everyone wants but are just taking a lot longer to get there than we all expected. Which to be honest suits me fine. 😀

They actually only take 15% commission for WOD and for the vast majority of apps. In fact I would be quite happy if they took 30% because they only do that for apps which make more than a million dollars a year!

 

[CopycatTT]

First of all, sorry for my English.

I have been using WOD for quite some time and I have changed my AW SE 1st Gen for a SE 2nd Gen. Before I had a woman's voice but now I have a metallic voice. Is it possible to return? Thanks in advance.

Solved. I only had to change the voice from AU to US.

 

[mgmooij]

Anyone tried the beta already? Any issues with WOD?

 

[cfc]

First of all, sorry for my English.

I have been using WOD for quite some time and I have changed my AW SE 1st Gen for a SE 2nd Gen. Before I had a woman's voice but now I have a metallic voice. Is it possible to return? Thanks in advance.

Solved. I only had to change the voice from AU to US.

Glad you figured it out. The robotic voice issue starting appearing in many apps with watchOS 9. I'm not sure what is happening (I suspect it is something to do with the default voice) but the fix is usually to switch to a different accent. Often you can then switch back to your first choice accent and it works fine.

 

[cfc]

Anyone tried the beta already? Any issues with WOD?

I would also be very interested to hear how people are getting on with it. I have heard from a couple of people who have had communication issues when using it, but watchOS 10.5 seems a bit flaky in that area, so those issues may not be related to watchOS 11.

 

[JohnTheBaton]

I would also be very interested to hear how people are getting on with it. I have heard from a couple of people who have had communication issues when using it, but watchOS 10.5 seems a bit flaky in that area, so those issues may not be related to watchOS 11.

So far it’s working fine for me, except I’m unable to load maps from the phone to the watch. The maps display just fine on the watch, but I need to be paired to my phone. I’m running WOD version 5.4 (8) on the iOS and Apple Watch developer betas.

 

[Philoustetou]

Hello, this works for me, I can transfer the maps from my iPhone and use them on the watch even offline.

WOD 5.4.8 - iPhone 15 pro Max - AWU2 - IOS 18 beta 1 (522A5282m) Watch OS 11 beta 1 (22R5284o)

 

[Backe]

Hi Ian,
As always, I am so grateful for your app. Apple really disappoints when it comes to watch software and the latest os seems as dull of an update to the previous ones

Which brings me to Workoutdoors and my old series4.

As this it's the end of the line for the series4 and no new os updates will be available, will WorkOutDoors still support the current os going forward? I'm really looking forward to check out the turn-by-turn. But even if no new development will be available, I hope the app will still be supported as the current version does everything I need at the moment.

Many thanks for your commitment to make the apple watch a great sports watch.

 

[cfc]

So far it’s working fine for me, except I’m unable to load maps from the phone to the watch. The maps display just fine on the watch, but I need to be paired to my phone. I’m running WOD version 5.4 (8) on the iOS and Apple Watch developer betas.

Have you tried rebooting both devices? The communication between iOS and watchOS seems to have got less reliable recently (especially with the bug in iOS 17.5) and this seems more common. If rebooting doesn't help then reinstalling the watch app (not the iPhone app) can help, and sometimes it is even necessary to unpair and re-pair the watch. Sorry about that.

I was hoping that the comms would be more reliable with iOS 18 / watchOS 11, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

On the upside no-one has yet reported an issue with the betas that isn't in the current release versions. I can't remember the last time that was the case with the first betas at this time of the year, so I am cautiously optimistic about the new versions of the operating systems.

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian,
As always, I am so grateful for your app. Apple really disappoints when it comes to watch software and the latest os seems as dull of an update to the previous ones

Which brings me to Workoutdoors and my old series4.

As this it's the end of the line for the series4 and no new os updates will be available, will WorkOutDoors still support the current os going forward? I'm really looking forward to check out the turn-by-turn. But even if no new development will be available, I hope the app will still be supported as the current version does everything I need at the moment.

Many thanks for your commitment to make the apple watch a great sports watch.

I never make the latest versions of iOS or watchOS essential to run the latest versions of WorkOutDoors. The app worked on watchOS 5 up until last year.

Then the always on display enhancements required watchOS 8, which ruled out the series 1 and 2 models. However there wasn't anything last year or this year that would require me to change that, so my guess is that the app will support watchOS 8 (and therefore series 3 models) for a year or so at least. So anything that can run watchOS 10 (like your series 4) is probably fine for even longer. The new version with turn by turn should work on a series 4. I haven't tested that, so it may be a bit slow, but it should hopefully be usable.

 

[jimmyjoy]

I have an issue where WOD occasionally doesn't provide any of the voice alerts for several minutes into my run, then will suddenly reel all the missed alerts off simultaniously before continuing on-time. I haven't done any specific testing but this seems to happen predominantly when listening to music on my airpods. It's not a huge issue but it has been annoying recently when not getting pace notifications during intervals.

I would guess this is something to do with WatchOS not having the resource the play them and queing the alerts up for when it does?

Any suggestion on how to fix this? I'm using an Apple Watch Ultra 1, Airpods Pro - Not connected to phone.

Thank you.