Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[rbart]

The app can use a different method to calculate distances. But each app get the GPS points the same way using the Apple workout API : https://developer.apple.com/documentation/healthkit/workouts_and_activity_rings
When my watch logs some "false" points, it's not depending on the app.
What I have noticed:
- with LTE OFF: GPS tracking is always correct, with few glitches that don't really impact distance/speed calculation
- with LTE ON : GPS tracking is correct most of the time, but for short periods, you can get completely false points that make the distance/speed calculation completely false

 

[NME42]

Guess we wait what Ian says, how this works. Maybe the Apple app can do more than 3rd party apps are allowed to do. No idea.

I found the following review from 5krunner and what he states at the end is interesting:

PPPS: My first run after this was with the STRYD app using effectively 1Hz recording (1 GPS point per sec). That track is not as good. The track is more jagged. It *DOES* make a better attempt at sharp corners and does NOT cut the corners BUT much of the track with STRYD‘s app is away from where it should be when compared to that produced by the Apple workout app.

Apple Watch 4 GPS Accuracy (44mm Nike Edition)

I’ve done my GPS ‘test’ on the Apple Watch 4 (44mm Nike Edition). The Apple Watch 4 (AW4) uses GLONASS as well as GPS but let’s call it GPS as…

the5krunner.com

 

[rbart]

STRYD is a power meter for running (footpod) that enhances the distance/speed calculation.

 

[NME42]

STRYD is a power meter for running (footpod) that enhances the distance/speed calculation.

True, but it is also an app that records GPS tracks.

 

[rbart]

Yes but it doesn't use the internal GPS for the 1hz recording

 

[NME42]

So another thing I found, this time from iSmoothrun:

A few words on GPS signal quality and accuracy. GPS accuracy is not controlled by the app (or any app) but by the device. Apps only define what are the accuracy requirements for the specific use. We run the iPhone GPS unit always on maximum accuracy mode (it doesn't have much impact on the battery). Any app would give exactly the same results (you can run two apps in parallel to check). We usually give better results than other apps, when there is no GPS signal and other apps give positions from WiFi spots or cell towers, while we switch to pedometer till we get a satellite fix again.

iSmoothRun. The ultimate app for your workouts.

iSmoothRun is not just another GPS tracker. Programmed by runners, it's the App that we all wished for. Taking advantage of the unique hardware our iPhones provide, we were able to create the ultimate App for endurance training.

www.ismoothrun.com

From my today's run, I would rule out that I had "no GPS signal" at the positions where the track got wobbly. There was light tree coverage and I have not seen got (or noticed) any notifications from WOD that GPS is gone.
[automerge]1572010229[/automerge]

Yes but it doesn't use the internal GPS for the 1hz recording

What do you mean with "internal GPS"?

 

[cfc]

I am not sure about your point, that all apps behave the same. Maybe Ian can shed a light on this how this works. Could imagine that each app has a different algorithm for deciding, which points to keep and which not.

About your point: "it is fixed". True.

I'll try tomorrow on my home route with WOD and see if there is a difference to my last run.
Inspecting my run today, it is definitely more "wobbly" than my run last Monday with Apple app on the same route.

I have found that the GPS is very variable with iOS 13 and watchOS 6. Sometimes it is fine and other times it looks awful. The accuracy figure that they supply also looks unrelated: you can often get terrible tracks when watchOS is reporting good accuracy. I also find that the locations are often delayed by a few seconds, which was never the case before.

I find that it is generally better when using the watch GPS rather than the phone GPS, but not always. None of these problems were an issue with the previous versions of iOS and watchOS so I think that there are serious bugs with the GPS in iOS 13 and watchOS 6.

Unfortunately I doubt that Apple will fix them anytime soon given their inability to fix any of the other serious bugs that myself and other developers reported ages ago. This is by far the worst year I can ever remember for the quality control of Apple's software.
[automerge]1572014062[/automerge]

After sorting out my GPS accuracy issues (for those interested: it seems they were fixed by calibrating the watch through multiple runs and also by moving the crown from right to left - see other thread on this), I did my second run with Workoutdoors. Absolutely love it, great app.

Two things I noticed:

1) When autolap info is displayed, it is disappearing very fast. From noticing the sound/tap to turning my arm I can only see it fade away. Is it possible to configure the display time or double the time?

2) I set my shortcut for double tap to pause the run. Fiddled around with it a bit and it worked ok. Midtime in the run I noticed that the distance counter did not count anymore and I figured out that stupid me continued my run in pause mode. So big drama: I was missing 300m on my run... 🤦‍♂️
Would it be possible to distinguish "Pause" and "Resume" more obviously? Garmin does it through a red surrounding of the screen when paused and switches to a green surrounding when resuming. This surrounding goes away shortly after resuming.

The next version of the app will have the ability to configure the length of time that notifications are displayed on the screen.

When paused there will be a "Paused" message at the bottom of the screen and all the metrics are shown in grey instead of white. I will have a think about making it more obvious though.

 

[NME42]

Edit: deleted as requested. And moved to the AW5 LTE GPS accuracy thread here:

#79

 

[cfc]

Continuing here, please advise if I should go to the GPS accuracy thread.

I would prefer if GPS accuracy discussions were kept to the GPS accuracy thread. Basically Apple seem to have broken it in iOS 13 but sometimes it is fine and sometimes not.
[automerge]1572082741[/automerge]

@cfc : I can share the TCX Files with you, if you want.

If you send me the wkt file then I will have a look at it. To do this tap the Export button 3 times quickly and send to info@workoutdoors.net This file includes all the details about the workout, including the reported GPS accuracy at each point.

 

[NME42]

My feature wish for WOD is a "Race mode" similar to Peters Race Pacer from Garmin:

Peter's (Race) Pacer - Start To Run

Review Video Summary Peter's (Race) Pacer is a Garmin Connect IQ Data Field which resolves 2 issues for me when I'm running a race: Before the race starts

starttorun.info

This is really an excellent tool if one is hunting down a PR on a known distance. It allows to set the target time for the target distance and informs about ETA and also visibly if one is behind or before schedule.
Also, it allows for a GPS correction, meaning that one can do manual laps (typically at km markers) and the algorithm corrects the measured distance from GPS to the now "known" distance that was manually entered.


Well, it is not christmas time yet, but soon ;-)

 

[cfc]

My feature wish for WOD is a "Race mode" similar to Peters Race Pacer from Garmin:

Peter's (Race) Pacer - Start To Run

Review Video Summary Peter's (Race) Pacer is a Garmin Connect IQ Data Field which resolves 2 issues for me when I'm running a race: Before the race starts

starttorun.info

This is really an excellent tool if one is hunting down a PR on a known distance. It allows to set the target time for the target distance and informs about ETA and also visibly if one is behind or before schedule.
Also, it allows for a GPS correction, meaning that one can do manual laps (typically at km markers) and the algorithm corrects the measured distance from GPS to the now "known" distance that was manually entered.


Well, it is not christmas time yet, but soon ;-)

The app can't do any distance correction yet but the other features are in there. You can start a workout with a fixed distance by tapping the circle with "..." in it and then tapping "Fixed Length" and then "Set Distance". This will then mean that various metrics will use that distance, such as "Estimated Time", "Time Remaining" and "Finish Time".

You can also set a target pace/speed by going to the Pace settings on the watch and tapping "Target Pace". This controls the metrics "Time vs Target" and "Distance vs Target", which show how far ahead and behind target pace you are. These metrics are shown with a green background if you are ahead of pace and a red background if you are behind pace. These colours are configurable.

You can also control whether a yellow dot is shown on the map to represent someone moving at that target pace. By default this is only shown for a screen which is configured to use the Target profile, but you can make it always shown or never shown.

 

[NME42]

but the other features are in there.

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds wonderful, got to try that out soon.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

The app can't do any distance correction yet but the other features are in there. You can start a workout with a fixed distance by tapping the circle with "..." in it and then tapping "Fixed Length" and then "Set Distance". This will then mean that various metrics will use that distance, such as "Estimated Time", "Time Remaining" and "Finish Time".

You can also set a target pace/speed by going to the Pace settings on the watch and tapping "Target Pace". This controls the metrics "Time vs Target" and "Distance vs Target", which show how far ahead and behind target pace you are. These metrics are shown with a green background if you are ahead of pace and a red background if you are behind pace. These colours are configurable.

You can also control whether a yellow dot is shown on the map to represent someone moving at that target pace. By default this is only shown for a screen which is configured to use the Target profile, but you can make it always shown or never shown.

View attachment 872580

I’ve set myself a screen up to display estimated total time (plus time vs target pace), and used for first time in a halfmarathon race today.
Only glanced at the screen a few times but was pretty handy and enabled me to quickly reset a mental target to aim for once any hope of hitting my target had gone...without having to do the pace calculations in my head.

Only slight tweak Id like is if the start button could be more of a “ive dialled the distance in, now press ro “get ready” and end up with the big full screen green start button like you get with a regular run...although appreciate this might be difficult to unravel...and it’s not a big deal...I managed to hit the button just fine whilst crossing a busy start line today.

 

[cfc]

I’ve set myself a screen up to display estimated total time (plus time vs target pace), and used for first time in a halfmarathon race today.
Only glanced at the screen a few times but was pretty handy and enabled me to quickly reset a mental target to aim for once any hope of hitting my target had gone...without having to do the pace calculations in my head.

Only slight tweak Id like is if the start button could be more of a “ive dialled the distance in, now press ro “get ready” and end up with the big full screen green start button like you get with a regular run...although appreciate this might be difficult to unravel...and it’s not a big deal...I managed to hit the button just fine whilst crossing a busy start line today.

Glad the estimated times worked well. In terms of the big start button I may make it an option to change the normal "Start" button on the fixed distance/time screen to say something like "Select", and tapping that goes to the screen with the big button. As you say it is a bit cumbersome so I would not make it the default, but at least offer it as an option.

Similarly the screen where you start by selecting an interval schedule could be configured to show the big start button instead of starting a workout the moment you tap a schedule.

 

[TDIDawg]

On a recent hike, I wore my Garmin 945 along with my S4 running WOD. The hike was heavily wooded, so I wasn't expecting a great track, but I was surprised by the distance discrepancy between the 945 and S4. The 945 recorded 1.07 miles while WOD recorded 1.18 miles. WOD also displayed "Note: Apple considered -0.14 miles of the workout as invalid." Is there a way to have WOD use the distance minus the invalid part as the official length of an activity? In the above example, removing the "invalid" .14 miles would be much closer to the true distance of the hike.

Thank you.

Joseph

 

[cfc]

On a recent hike, I wore my Garmin 945 along with my S4 running WOD. The hike was heavily wooded, so I wasn't expected a great track, but I was surprised by the distance discrepancy between the 945 and S4. The 945 recorded 1.07 miles while WOD recorded 1.18 miles. WOD also displayed "Note: Apple considered -0.14 miles of the workout as invalid." Is there a way to have WOD use the distance minus the invalid part as the official length of an activity? In the above example, removing the "invalid" .14 miles would be much closer to the true distance of the hike.

Thank you.

Joseph

Thanks for buying the app. It measures the distance in two ways: firstly by using the distance estimates provided by Apple (which are the default and use the pedometer), and secondly by just measuring the distance between the GPS positions.

When the two distances are different by a large amount then it shows this message. What this is saying is that Apple's estimates were 0.14 longer than the GPS distance. The reason for this is usually either that the GPS was poor or that the watch has not been calibrated properly. In this case if you think that the distance was closer to the GPS distance then the problem is probably the calibration. To fix this check here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

For some people Apple's distances do not suit them even when they have calibrated the watch. If this is the case then you can switch the app to use the GPS distances instead. To do this press the watch screen hard, tap Settings and then More. Switch off the option marked "Use Calibrated Distance Estimates".

Note that this means that the app just uses the GPS positions, which can be affected by a poor signal, such as when going through a tunnel. They would have produced a better estimate for your hike (despite the wooded route) but that may not always be the case, so it is best to try the calibration first before resorting to just using the GPS.

I hope that makes sense? Apologies for the long winded response!

 

[Monkswhiskers]

Thanks for buying the app. It measures the distance in two ways: firstly by using the distance estimates provided by Apple (which are the default and use the pedometer), and secondly by just measuring the distance between the GPS positions.

When the two distances are different by a large amount then it shows this message. What this is saying is that Apple's estimates were 0.14 longer than the GPS distance. The reason for this is usually either that the GPS was poor or that the watch has not been calibrated properly. In this case if you think that the distance was closer to the GPS distance then the problem is probably the calibration. To fix this check here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

For some people Apple's distances do not suit them even when they have calibrated the watch. If this is the case then you can switch the app to use the GPS distances instead. To do this press the watch screen hard, tap Settings and then More. Switch off the option marked "Use Calibrated Distance Estimates".

Note that this means that the app just uses the GPS positions, which can be affected by a poor signal, such as when going through a tunnel. They would have produced a better estimate for your hike (despite the wooded route) but that may not always be the case, so it is best to try the calibration first before resorting to just using the GPS.

I hope that makes sense? Apologies for the long winded response!

Did I read earlier in the thread somewhere that there was a setting that you can include that increases gps accuracy (for sat nav apps I think) or am I mistaken?

 

[GHDpro]

I just was able to fix a problem I was having with WOD since I got it -- the maps function in both the iPhone app and the Watch app wasn't working at all. It just showed gray with a dot in it, it never loaded any maps.

As it turned out, Location Services for WOD was set to "Never" (I must have not enabled it when I first launched the app or something, or maybe the app never prompted me to enable it?). This setting is then mirrored to the watch as well, apparently.

Anyway, setting "Location Services" for WOD to something more permissive immediately fixed the issue, but maybe it would have been nice if WOD had warned me about it (something like "Yo! Without Location Services enabled the maps function isn't going to work!").

 

[cfc]

Did I read earlier in the thread somewhere that there was a setting that you can include that increases gps accuracy (for sat nav apps I think) or am I mistaken?

There is but I have removed it from the next version because most people found that it didn't make any difference. It was in the documentation as for use when the device was connected to a battery, so I assume that it was for the iPhone and not the watch. I made it an option anyway so that people could try it out, but the consensus was that it made no difference, so it won't be in future versions.

If you want to give it a try in the current version then press the watch screen hard and tap Settings then Map. It is called "Extra Accurate GPS".
[automerge]1572426841[/automerge]

I just was able to fix a problem I was having with WOD since I got it -- the maps function in both the iPhone app and the Watch app wasn't working at all. It just showed gray with a dot in it, it never loaded any maps.

As it turned out, Location Services for WOD was set to "Never" (I must have not enabled it when I first launched the app or something, or maybe the app never prompted me to enable it?). This setting is then mirrored to the watch as well, apparently.

Anyway, setting "Location Services" for WOD to something more permissive immediately fixed the issue, but maybe it would have been nice if WOD had warned me about it (something like "Yo! Without Location Services enabled the maps function isn't going to work!").

That sounds a good idea. It is probably too late for the next version, but I will bear it in mind. To be honest it is very rare that users do not to give location permission (I can't actually remember anyone mentioning it before, which is surprising). Usually it is one of the health permissions that is missing, or the Motion & Fitness permission for the pedometer and barometer.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Did anyone

Thanks for buying the app. It measures the distance in two ways: firstly by using the distance estimates provided by Apple (which are the default and use the pedometer), and secondly by just measuring the distance between the GPS positions.

When the two distances are different by a large amount then it shows this message. What this is saying is that Apple's estimates were 0.14 longer than the GPS distance. The reason for this is usually either that the GPS was poor or that the watch has not been calibrated properly. In this case if you think that the distance was closer to the GPS distance then the problem is probably the calibration. To fix this check here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

For some people Apple's distances do not suit them even when they have calibrated the watch. If this is the case then you can switch the app to use the GPS distances instead. To do this press the watch screen hard, tap Settings and then More. Switch off the option marked "Use Calibrated Distance Estimates".

Note that this means that the app just uses the GPS positions, which can be affected by a poor signal, such as when going through a tunnel. They would have produced a better estimate for your hike (despite the wooded route) but that may not always be the case, so it is best to try the calibration first before resorting to just using the GPS.

I hope that makes sense? Apologies for the long winded response!

Did anyone ever find out if you really need to use the Apple Workout app to do calibration, or just any old app??

Some months ago I had to hard reset my watch and I’ve never use the Apple Workout app since, but my in-run pace and distance data always feels pretty good (I often get a WOD notification within a couple of metres of running past a race km marker) and post race/run distances tie up with others who had covered the same route.

It feels that either calibration happens whenever any app creates an activity, OR, I run very close to the default non calibrated style?!

(I don’t carry phone when running).

 

[cfc]

Did anyone


Did anyone ever find out if you really need to use the Apple Workout app to do calibration, or just any old app??

Some months ago I had to hard reset my watch and I’ve never use the Apple Workout app since, but my in-run pace and distance data always feels pretty good (I often get a WOD notification within a couple of metres of running past a race km marker) and post race/run distances tie up with others who had covered the same route.

It feels that either calibration happens whenever any app creates an activity, OR, I run very close to the default non calibrated style?!

(I don’t carry phone when running).

I wish I knew. Apple only mention using their Workout app on their calibration webpage. However it wouldn't surprise me if it also happens with 3rd party apps such as WorkOutDoors that use the workout system that they provide.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204516

Regardless, it's good to hear that Apple's distance estimates work so well for you!

 

[Otto Pilot]

Anecdotes and data and all that, but I can tell you that I have, until this week, never used the Apple Workouts run or outdoor walk setting on my Series 4 or 5 watches...only WOD. This week I started a new job with a nice gym and have done a few treadmill workouts. Calibration seems spot on...at least about maybe 4 mph or so...i imagine the slower walking messes with the accuracy. So I'm inclined to believe any workout app can aid the calibration.

 

[cfc]

Anecdotes and data and all that, but I can tell you that I have, until this week, never used the Apple Workouts run or outdoor walk setting on my Series 4 or 5 watches...only WOD. This week I started a new job with a nice gym and have done a few treadmill workouts. Calibration seems spot on...at least about maybe 4 mph or so...i imagine the slower walking messes with the accuracy. So I'm inclined to believe any workout app can aid the calibration.

A few people have had similar experiences to yourselves, so I suspect that it is the case, but don't know for certain.

I still recommend calibrating using the native app when users have poor distances, if only because it reduces the uncertainty. I wish Apple would confirm it though.

 

[TDIDawg]

Thanks for buying the app. It measures the distance in two ways: firstly by using the distance estimates provided by Apple (which are the default and use the pedometer), and secondly by just measuring the distance between the GPS positions.

When the two distances are different by a large amount then it shows this message. What this is saying is that Apple's estimates were 0.14 longer than the GPS distance. The reason for this is usually either that the GPS was poor or that the watch has not been calibrated properly. In this case if you think that the distance was closer to the GPS distance then the problem is probably the calibration. To fix this check here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

For some people Apple's distances do not suit them even when they have calibrated the watch. If this is the case then you can switch the app to use the GPS distances instead. To do this press the watch screen hard, tap Settings and then More. Switch off the option marked "Use Calibrated Distance Estimates".

Note that this means that the app just uses the GPS positions, which can be affected by a poor signal, such as when going through a tunnel. They would have produced a better estimate for your hike (despite the wooded route) but that may not always be the case, so it is best to try the calibration first before resorting to just using the GPS.

I hope that makes sense? Apologies for the long winded response!

Yes, and thank you for the detailed response.

Also, are you planning to integrate the Compass feature on the new S5 into WOD? I like how the Garmin 945's compass can be used to orient oneself while stationary during an activity. It would be great if the new S5 could allow this capability with 3rd party apps as well.

Thanks again for the great app and your support.

 

[cfc]

Yes, and thank you for the detailed response.

Also, are you planning to integrate the Compass feature on the new S5 into WOD? I like how the Garmin 945 can use its compass to orient oneself while stationary during an activity. It would be great if the new S5 could allow this capability with 3rd party apps as well.

Thanks again for the great app and your support.

Yes, the compass will be supported in the next version. It has been beta tested for a while and seems to work well. There are quite a few settings for it on a new Rotation settings screen:



I am just waiting for Apple to release a new version of their development system so that I can test the app on iOS 13.2 and watchOS 6.1. For some reason they have left developers in limbo for several days by releasing those operating systems to the public but without the ability for developers to build for them (without using betas).

I suspect it is because they plan to release the 16" MBP in a few hours and the development system gives that away. We developers are always low down on Apple's list of priorities!

Once that is released then I can build a (hopefully) final beta version for testers and maybe release in a week or two depending on how the testing goes.