Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[Akrapovic]

For what it's worth, I would subscribe for Pro features. I don't mind that.

I think one problem you might start having is that as you increase the feature set, the app is going to become very feature full. It's going to start becoming quite hard to get to grips with for new users.

 

[NME42]

For what it's worth, I would subscribe for Pro features. I don't mind that.

I think one problem you might start having is that as you increase the feature set, the app is going to become very feature full. It's going to start becoming quite hard to get to grips with for new users.

Yep. Fully agree and left with horrors the Garmin world. Lots of features and every new one increased complexity and decreased stability.

 

[raulxininen]

Hi,

I want to ask if anyone has find that current pace at the app is not working as it was doing before.

I have the impression that it doesn’t calculate current pace if your screen is off. When I move up the watch and it turn on current pace is really slow and in a few seconds it’s going down until it reach real current pace.

I have try new feature and try it with pedometer and gps. Also move smooth bar to 3 and 4 steps but it doesn’t seem to go better.

maybe what I need is pace of last “50 meter or 10 seconds for example.

thank you for everything

app is great

 

[cfc]

Hi,

I want to ask if anyone has find that current pace at the app is not working as it was doing before.

I have the impression that it doesn’t calculate current pace if your screen is off. When I move up the watch and it turn on current pace is really slow and in a few seconds it’s going down until it reach real current pace.

I have try new feature and try it with pedometer and gps. Also move smooth bar to 3 and 4 steps but it doesn’t seem to go better.

maybe what I need is pace of last “50 meter or 10 seconds for example.

thank you for everything

app is great

The current pace comes directly from watchOS (either the pedometer system or the GPS system) and I also find it worse with watchOS 6 / iOS 13. This is why I added the smoothing setting, to try to improve it by allowing the user to specify that the pace used is the average of the last n values reported by watchOS. It shouldn't make any difference whether the screen is on or off.

You could use a rolling pace instead, which is calculated by the app over a configurable time or distance period. It is also possible to make a rolling pace be used instead of the current pace for alerts and for pace ranges in intervals. This is another feature that I added because Apple's current pace estimates can be erratic.

Note that this is only the current (instantaneous) pace. All the other pace metrics are fine because they are calculated by the app as distance over time. However I think that Apple's estimates of current pace are less reliable than they were with watchOS 5. In fact a lot of stuff in watchOS 6 and iOS 13 is less reliable than it was previously!

 

[raulxininen]

The current pace comes directly from watchOS (either the pedometer system or the GPS system) and I also find it worse with watchOS 6 / iOS 13. This is why I added the smoothing setting, to try to improve it by allowing the user to specify that the pace used is the average of the last n values reported by watchOS. It shouldn't make any difference whether the screen is on or off.

You could use a rolling pace instead, which is calculated by the app over a configurable time or distance period. It is also possible to make a rolling pace be used instead of the current pace for alerts and for pace ranges in intervals. This is another feature that I added because Apple's current pace estimates can be erratic.

Note that this is only the current (instantaneous) pace. All the other pace metrics are fine because they are calculated by the app as distance over time. However I think that Apple's estimates of current pace are less reliable than they were with watchOS 5. In fact a lot of stuff in watchOS 6 and iOS 13 is less reliable than it was previously!

Thank you very much for your answer.
Really happy with workoutdoors. It’s great. You are doing a great wok

 

[Monkswhiskers]

Was out on the bike today (in horrendous weather btw). The track it very stuttery, reminiscent of when I had it piggybacking off the phone gps in the past. I put the watch in flight mode but still kept getting notifications from apps on my phone so I think the latest software is not isolating the watch from the phone anymore.

 

[avkam]

^

AW5 Connects to iPhone in Airplane Mode

Read this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204234 Also: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/flight-mode-still-getting-notifications.2201649/#post-27803539

forums.macrumors.com

 

[rbart]

I think there is a big localization issue in iOS13, not only in WatchOS 6 with LTE activated.
Some people have the same issue:

GPS accuracy iOS 13 and/or 11 Pro Max - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

I don't know if Apple is aware of that ...

 

[rbart]

cfc, as a developer, do you have some feedbacks from Apple regarding this ?
Is it a well known issue in developers community ?

 

[cfc]

cfc, as a developer, do you have some feedbacks from Apple regarding this ?
Is it a well known issue in developers community ?

I haven't seen many complaints but I am not particularly active in the dev community. From my testing I am sure that Apple have broken the GPS in iOS 13 and possibly watchOS 6. I say possibly for watchOS because I find that things work well for me when the iPhone is not connected, but I do not have LTE on my watch, which may explain that.

When the iPhone is connected then the tracks often look very poor, even when watchOS is reporting a good accuracy. This could be related to the LTE problem because the phone would have an LTE connection.

For example I go mountain biking most mornings and I go through the same urban area on the way to and from a forest. On the way there the track is always awful, and on the way back it is always fine. If I look at my tracks when I was running iOS 12 and watchOS 5 then they were fine. This happens every time now and never happened before.

My suspicion is that Apple are somehow trying to improve things by using the map information such as roads, and getting it seriously wrong in a lot of situations, but that is just a guess.

Also I sometimes see a delay of 10 seconds or more in the GPS signals when using the iPhone. This even happens on other iPhone apps, so it is not related to WorkOutDoors or even to watch apps. However I haven't heard of anyone else experiencing it so I wonder if it is specific to my phone. I have rebooted it, and played around with network and various other settings without any success.

In my experience iOS 13 and watchOS 6 are still a mess, especially in terms of GPS.

 

[rbart]

You notice the same as me ...
It's really a shame, I know it's not your fault, apps have to rely on Apple services and don't have the choice ...
I am sure they use a new algorithm in both iOS13 ens WOS6 to calculate position with LTE help in some situations and it make things worse.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Possible bug...
I have a repeatingx1000 “Run interval + Recover interval” followed by a warm down interval (that I use the exit repeat command to get to).

I’m using the repeat for some MAF training (I use “Recover” for road crossings etc as I don’t like autopause!)

In my recover, one of the fields I am displaying is “HR ZONES BARCHART (P INT)”, and I expect just to see one of the bars high and all others flat zero (because I’m running inside a specific zone for my MAF running)....but...all the bars are on zero???

After the run, all looks fine and zone and heart rate data is exactly as expected.

 

[cfc]

Possible bug...
I have a repeatingx1000 “Run interval + Recover interval” followed by a warm down interval (that I use the exit repeat command to get to).

I’m using the repeat for some MAF training (I use “Recover” for road crossings etc as I don’t like autopause!)

In my recover, one of the fields I am displaying is “HR ZONES BARCHART (P INT)”, and I expect just to see one of the bars high and all others flat zero (because I’m running inside a specific zone for my MAF running)....but...all the bars are on zero???

After the run, all looks fine and zone and heart rate data is exactly as expected.

Sounds like an obscure bug. I will take a look.

 

[cfc]

Sounds like an obscure bug. I will take a look.

I've found the bug and fixed it in the code, so it should be ok in the next version. The heart rate zone bar chart for the whole workout was fine, but not for the metrics for the current lap, previous lap, current interval or previous interval.

Thanks for spotting that - I guess very few people use the heart rate zone graphs for laps or intervals.

 

[NME42]

Wow, problem reported, bug fixed within an hour. That’s why I love WorkOutDoors already after one month of usage.

Remember my discussions with Garmin with horror about reproducable software bugs where it took MONTHS until they acknowledged them. Not speaking about fixing.
[automerge]1573651973[/automerge]
Something for the backlog maybe, cool idea:

COROS Releases New ‘Running Track’ Mode On Watches, Adds Running Power & Efficiency Pod

Now we’re talking – some legit new features here coming from COROS. First up, they’ve launched a new track mode that increases the accuracy of running on a track, by somewhat ‘snapping’ to the track and even the specific lane

www.dcrainmaker.com

 

[cfc]

Wow, problem reported, bug fixed within an hour. That’s why I love WorkOutDoors already after one month of usage.

Remember my discussions with Garmin with horror about reproducable software bugs where it took MONTHS until they acknowledged them. Not speaking about fixing.
[automerge]1573651973[/automerge]
Something for the backlog maybe, cool idea:

COROS Releases New ‘Running Track’ Mode On Watches, Adds Running Power & Efficiency Pod

Now we’re talking – some legit new features here coming from COROS. First up, they’ve launched a new track mode that increases the accuracy of running on a track, by somewhat ‘snapping’ to the track and even the specific lane

www.dcrainmaker.com

Thanks for the kind words about the bug fix. It would have been better if I hadn't made the mistake in the first place though!

That track mode seems a good idea, although it sounds like Ray wasn't impressed with the implementation. I may look into that sort of thing sometime in the dim and distance future, hopefully after Apple have sorted out their GPS accuracy, which would currently make it almost impossible!

 

[NME42]

Yes, something for the very back end in the backlog.
As soon as my heel is 100% healthy, I will go for track workouts with WOD and you can expect feedback and wishes.

Producing bugs is normal and the difference is how they are handled and if fixing one introduced two new ones. Garmin fails big on this lately.
(Edit: Apple in the last time too)

 

[kbalak]

cfc, for the first time ever, app crashed on my watch. Didn’t realize it until I flip my wrist to check it.
2 things:
Workout not recorded in the app although watch Activity show it, see screenshots
Secondly my run from yesterday shows up in the watch WorkOutDoors app but doesn’t get synced into iPhone app.

app is great, don’t think any app on iOS come close to your

 

[cfc]

cfc, for the first time ever, app crashed on my watch. Didn’t realize it until I flip my wrist to check it.
2 things:
Workout not recorded in the app although watch Activity show it, see screenshots
Secondly my run from yesterday shows up in the watch WorkOutDoors app but doesn’t get synced into iPhone app.

app is great, don’t think any app on iOS come close to your

Sorry the app crashed. It is rare but does seem slightly more common with watchOS 6. I get crash reports through from Apple and fix any in my code, but there are some in the watchOS code that I have no control over.

The reason the workout still appears in Apple's Activity is that watchOS persists the workout in case of problems like this.

In terms of the workout from yesterday not making it to the iPhone app please try rebooting the watch and the phone. This is always a good idea with a crash anyway because, like all operating systems, sometimes watchOS and iOS get into a strange state and need restarting.

If the workout still doesn't appear then try manually sending it again. To do this press the watch screen hard and tap "Workout History". Then select the workout to show its details and press hard again. Then tap "Resend to iPhone". Hope that helps.

 

[kbalak]

Sorry the app crashed. It is rare but does seem slightly more common with watchOS 6. I get crash reports through from Apple and fix any in my code, but there are some in the watchOS code that I have no control over.

The reason the workout still appears in Apple's Activity is that watchOS persists the workout in case of problems like this.

In terms of the workout from yesterday not making it to the iPhone app please try rebooting the watch and the phone. This is always a good idea with a crash anyway because, like all operating systems, sometimes watchOS and iOS get into a strange state and need restarting.

If the workout still doesn't appear then try manually sending it again. To do this press the watch screen hard and tap "Workout History". Then select the workout to show its details and press hard again. Then tap "Resend to iPhone". Hope that helps.

Resend to iPhone worked.

is there a way to get the workout from activity app to workoutdoors app without export/import?

 

[cfc]

Resend to iPhone worked.

is there a way to get the workout from activity app to workoutdoors app without export/import?

Glad that worked.

There is currently no way to import workouts from Apple's system into WorkOutDoors. Sorry about that. I may add it in the future but only for workouts created by WorkOutDoors so that it would help in your situation.

Other users have asked about importing workouts from Apple Health so that the app could be used to analyse workouts created with other apps. However that would probably involve a world of pain for me having to effectively debug other apps. It is bad enough having to investigate how Strava, Garmin etc deal differently with exported workouts without having similar problems with imported workouts!

 

[Significant1]

While talking about analyzing, I have some ideas for improvements I would love.

iPhone. Ability to see map in fullscreen. When not in fullscreen, but zoomed in, I would like it to pan the map, to keep the position in focus (maybe center) while scrolling through the plot below and maintaining the zoom level. When releasing the you finger, it could return to the position it had or not (not sure what is best).

Watch. Opening up the full map view, when touch your route in workout history. So you can pan and zoom and see the route more detailed.

iPad. If you include import of workoutdoors created workouts. Cloud sync (could be iCloud drive) and iPad version to analyze on bigger display.

 

[cfc]

While talking about analyzing, I have some ideas for improvements I would love.

iPhone. Ability to see map in fullscreen. When not in fullscreen, but zoomed in, I would like it to pan the map, to keep the position in focus (maybe center) while scrolling through the plot below and maintaining the zoom level. When releasing the you finger, it could return to the position it had or not (not sure what is best).

Watch. Opening up the full map view, when touch your route in workout history. So you can pan and zoom and see the route more detailed.

iPad. If you include import of workoutdoors created workouts. Cloud sync (could be iCloud drive) and iPad version to analyze on bigger display.

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't think anyone has asked for them before, except for the iPad request, which has been asked for a couple of times. I may do an iPad version some day, but only if Apple make the Watch work with the iPad. It is too much work otherwise for very little gain because so few people want it. To be honest it is hard enough handling all the different watch and iPhone screen sizes without having to handle iPads as well!

The analysis improvements to the iPhone and watch are possible in the future. At the moment I am concentrating on the workout functionality improvements but I will improve the analysis at some time.

 

[NME42]

The analysis improvements to the iPhone and watch are possible in the future. At the moment I am concentrating on the workout functionality improvements but I will improve the analysis at some time.

My take on this: spare the time for other improvements. The very best analysis tool on the market in my opinion is runalyze. Forget about Strava, Garmin Connect, etc. Very powerful, very easy to use and free. The coders are enthusiastic runners and love their work. My absolute favorite tool.

A combination of WOD and runalyze would be a dream pair. Maybe you can get in touch with them for uploading runs directly? They did it for different apps (RunGap, HealthFit, iSmoothrun, ...) and it should be rather straightforward.

 

[cfc]

My take on this: spare the time for other improvements. The very best analysis tool on the market in my opinion is runalyze. Forget about Strava, Garmin Connect, etc. Very powerful, very easy to use and free. The coders are enthusiastic runners and love their work. My absolute favorite tool.

A combination of WOD and runalyze would be a dream pair. Maybe you can get in touch with them for uploading runs directly? They did it for different apps (RunGap, HealthFit, iSmoothrun, ...) and it should be rather straightforward.

To be honest I don't have any plans to export directly to systems other than Strava. I only provided a direct upload to that because it was far and away the most requested. All other systems can be sent workouts manually (export a GPX/TCX from the app and upload to the appropriate website) or you can use a third party app like HealthFit or RunGap.

It is already hard work dealing with exporting to all the other systems via files, without having to communicate directly with each of their different communications protocols. They also sometimes change these protocols, which would mean I would have to handle that. As I say there are other apps that already do that sort of thing, so I feel that it's best to leave it to them. I will concentrate on the workout functionality.

Having said that Runalyze has an email import mechanism which I may connect to. This is because the mechanism is generic. There is no communications protocol to implement - you just email them with a workout file attached. The email simply needs to come from the address you specify with them and with the subject being a passcode that you specify.

This means that it would be relatively easy for me to allow the user to specify an email address (import@runalyze.com) and a subject (the password) and then the app would offer that as an export option: "Email TCX File".

Import activities via mail

From now on you are able to import activities via mail. Why would you do that? Some apps can export activities to different file formats, but do not support direct export to Runalyze. You can use this feature to easily send your activities to Runalyze from those apps. What do I have to do...

blog.runalyze.com

Note that you can do this at the moment by using the "Share TCX/GPX File" export option, and then sharing to the Mail app. However at the moment you would need to manually select the email address and enter the passcode as the subject of the email. If I added an email export option then you could enter these once in the app's settings and then exporting to Runalyze would simply be a case of tapping "Export" then "Email TCX File" and then the app would automatically create the email for you to send.

So I may add that in the future, but I probably won't provide a direct connection to systems other than Strava. Never say never though.