Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

Thanks for the quick reply. This sounds similar to what I am experiencing, the runs that were correctly tracked started with my iPhone near, the ones that went wonky were started without my phone.

Have changed the location settings from 'While Using the App' to 'Always' and will try again. After I'll reboot devices too, just to have it all as clean as possible in the background. Thanks for your advice, will keep you in the loop

It may be worth switching off the location permission for the app before rebooting both devices, and then switching it on again afterwards. I have heard of that helping with a very rare health permission issue, so it may help here too. It seemed to nudge iOS into resending the health permissions to watchOS so it may do the same with location permissions.

 

[PjDB]

It may be worth switching off the location permission for the app before rebooting both devices, and then switching it on again afterwards. I have heard of that helping with a very rare health permission issue, so it may help here too. It seemed to nudge iOS into resending the health permissions to watchOS so it may do the same with location permissions.

Changing the location preferences seem to have done the trick, thanks!
Done an activity without iPhone connection and tracked it all perfectly

 

[cfc]

Changing the location preferences seem to have done the trick, thanks!
Done an activity without iPhone connection and tracked it all perfectly

Glad it is working now. There do seem to be a few strange bugs with the permissions in iOS and watchOS, but only being able to see the GPS when the watch app is active is probably the strangest one so far!

 

[yoak]

Just out of curiosity. If turn by turn is implemented will it use a lot of power?
I’m asking as I was using the “load gpx route” feature on a bike trip yesterday. It really works well for MTB rides on new trails. That got me thinking that I don’t need turn by turn for my kind of use. I hope you leave this feature alongside turn by turn if you implement it (as I presume that will use more battery?)

 

[cfc]

Just out of curiosity. If turn by turn is implemented will it use a lot of power?
I’m asking as I was using the “load gpx route” feature on a bike trip yesterday. It really works well for MTB rides on new trails. That got me thinking that I don’t need turn by turn for my kind of use. I hope you leave this feature alongside turn by turn if you implement it (as I presume that will use more battery?)

I doubt that turn by turn will make any difference to battery usage. It will just mean checking the distance between the user and the location of the next direction every second or so, which is negligible. Most features that rely on the CPU don't use up much battery; it is the hardware power draws that have by far the most effect, such as GPS, heart sensor, bluetooth, screen usage etc.

Having said that I am sure that I will make it optional as to whether the app reads out directions, so you don't need to use them if you don't want to.

Glad you find the current GPX route navigation so useful!

 

[noel18]

Ian, has there ben any API changes in watchOS 8 that could benefit WOD? Something I'd really love to see is a way to let developers force an app to use the watch GPS rather than using the phone GPS even if it's connected and in range. When I run with a stroller I typically bring my phone and a BT speaker and let the phone handle the music. I don't run with a stroller that often so I always forget to jump through the hoops of turning off BT on the watch before I run so it uses the phone and my distance ends up significantly wrong (short). My wife tends to run often with the stroller and I'm looking at her route and know from experience that it should be 2.6mi but it's only reporting 2.4. Finally figured out it's because she brings the phone with her.

Apple can be really annoying sometimes. They should have a global setting that says activities will only be allowed to use the watch GPS.

 

[cfc]

Ian, has there ben any API changes in watchOS 8 that could benefit WOD? Something I'd really love to see is a way to let developers force an app to use the watch GPS rather than using the phone GPS even if it's connected and in range. When I run with a stroller I typically bring my phone and a BT speaker and let the phone handle the music. I don't run with a stroller that often so I always forget to jump through the hoops of turning off BT on the watch before I run so it uses the phone and my distance ends up significantly wrong (short). My wife tends to run often with the stroller and I'm looking at her route and know from experience that it should be 2.6mi but it's only reporting 2.4. Finally figured out it's because she brings the phone with her.

Apple can be really annoying sometimes. They should have a global setting that says activities will only be allowed to use the watch GPS.

Unfortunately there was nothing in the GPS area. Developers and users have wanted control over where the GPS comes from for many years, but Apple never allow it.

In terms of other API changes Apple now offer auto-pause for cycling, so that will be the default for the app (with the current auto-pause algorithm still available as an option).

They have also added the ability for apps to use the always on altimeter, so the next version will use that for elevation when it is available.

The other new API is the always on display, which is now available to apps that are written using Apple's latest development language (SwiftUI). Unfortunately this language has only been around for a couple of years and wasn't around when WorkOutDoors was first written. I will be looking into ways to get around this after the release of the next version. Hopefully I will have a better idea of possible workarounds by then.

At the moment I am adapting the app for the new 41mm and 45mm displays, as well as finishing off the sensor functionality. I plan to wait until I have tested the app on a new series 7 watch and then release a beta of the next version. I am hoping to get one when they are released next Friday but it sounds like supply could be limited this year so it may be later than that.

 

[Kridal]

Hi.
Suddenly I can't download maps anymore.. Any tips? I've tried to restart both phone and watch, but that didn't help.. This is the screen on my iPhone (I also started the app on my watch).

 

[cfc]

Hi.
Suddenly I can't download maps anymore.. Any tips? I've tried to restart both phone and watch, but that didn't help.. This is the screen on my iPhone (I also started the app on my watch).

View attachment 1857457

If rebooting both devices didn't work then you probably have another app that is transferring data to the watch and WorkOutDoors has to wait.

Sometimes this can happen without you knowing about it. For example the stock Podcast app on the iPhone mirrors all its podcasts to the watch even if you do not use the Podcast app on the watch. This can mean that it is transferring large files in the background without you knowing. Unfortunately it is impossible to know what apps are sending data to the watch.

So I would wait a few hours and then try again.

 

[ArrToo]

Had a quick search, so sorry if this has already been suggested: have you considered adding Gradient Adjusted Pace/Speed to your huge set of tools? Seems like you might have the appropriate data around (from the map)!

 

[cfc]

Had a quick search, so sorry if this has already been suggested: have you considered adding Gradient Adjusted Pace/Speed to your huge set of tools? Seems like you might have the appropriate data around (from the map)!

It isn't in my immediate plans. Sorry about that. It is subjective in terms of how to calculate it and at the moment I am generally sticking to objective metrics. Maybe one day though.

 

[soloer]

Ian, is there any chance you could add an option like you have for swimming workouts where when you start a running workout the screen auto water locks? I’ve tried the 4 tap screen lock a few times but with temps cooling down, I’ve found my wet long sleeved shirts always find a way to unlock it.

 

[cfc]

Ian, is there any chance you could add an option like you have for swimming workouts where when you start a running workout the screen auto water locks? I’ve tried the 4 tap screen lock a few times but with temps cooling down, I’ve found my wet long sleeved shirts always find a way to unlock it.

That is on my list of things to do, although not very high because it is rarely requested. It is a "start" option so I may also add it as a switch on the "Open Workout" start screen, like the "Countdown" option, so that you can start a workout without the water lock if you want. It won't be in the next version though. Sorry about that.

 

[soloer]

No problem, glad that you didn’t shoot down the idea for a future release!

 

[TheMixam]

I think this is more of an Apple Watch problem than a WorkOutDoors problem, but maybe someone can help. Ever since I did a complete reset on my Apple Watch a few months ago, it often happens that at the start of a workout, the heart rate data is missing (blank), way too high or way too low. After a minute or 2 it corrects itself. Anyone knows how to resolve this?

I also saw this note in one of my last workouts, what could've caused this?

 

[cfc]

I think this is more of an Apple Watch problem than a WorkOutDoors problem, but maybe someone can help. Ever since I did a complete reset on my Apple Watch a few months ago, it often happens that at the start of a workout, the heart rate data is missing (blank), way too high or way too low. After a minute or 2 it corrects itself. Anyone knows how to resolve this?

And I also noticed this (Apple considered 1.35 km of the workout as invalid) in one of my last workouts:
View attachment 1865617

The heart rate is a common issue with the sensor, especially if it is cold. I very rarely hear about it over the Summer months but it is a regular complaint during Winter. Apple have some hints on how to help here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207941#heartrate

However even these hints don't help for some people and then I recommend using an external heart rate monitor, because they work in a very different way. These detect electrical impulses whereas the watch sensor is optical. It beams a light into your wrist and detects heart beats from the reflections. However the effectiveness of this varies between people (tattoos, deeper blood vessels etc) and is also greatly affected by cold and also by motion.

Because of the difficulty getting a lock whilst moving it may be worth starting a dummy workout and waiting for a lock whilst standing still. Then end that workout and start the real workout. The app automatically ignores workouts of less than a minute but you can easily delete it anyway.

I wish that Apple would allow the app to get a lock on the heart rate before starting a workout (like it does with GPS). Apple do allow some apps to do this without running a workout but I have requested this many times without a reply. I did speak to an Apple engineer about it once and they said that this capability is for other types of apps and not for workout apps. Which is a shame because I think the native workout app does this.

 

[cfc]

In terms of the "invalid" message, this usually means that your GPS was poor or that you watch needs calibrating. By default the app uses Apple's calibrated distances, which come from the pedometer, but it also calculates the distance from the GPS track and shows that "invalid" message if the distances are different by more than 10%.

To check the GPS go to the Steps tab (if available) and change "Steps" to "GPS". For non-step based activities just go to the GPS tab. This tab shows an average GPS accuracy, which should be about 6m. If it is more than 10m then your GPS is poor, which may explain the difference.

If the GPS looks ok then it must be Apple's calibrated distance that is wrong. To fix this please follow the instructions here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516.

If the recalibration doesn't work (Apple's pedometer just doesn't work for some people) then switch off calibrated distances and the app will just use GPS to determine distance. To do this touch the watch screen for a second and tap Settings then More. Then switch off "Use Calibrated Distances". Note that this makes it susceptible to poor GPS signals, such as when you go through tunnels etc.

When the distances are as massively wrong as you are seeing (unless that was a very long run) then it usually means that you have done something strange to confuse watchOS. Have you maybe done a different activity (in any app) and told the watch that it was a running activity? I have heard of people doing skateboarding or cross country skiing but have told the watch they were running. This has then made the watch think they have the wrong running stride length, which has affected the distance estimates.

Hopefully a re-calibration will work, but if not then switch to using the GPS distance for future workouts.

 

[TheMixam]

It was only a 5K. The GPS average accuracy was 17m and minimum accuracy was 112m. So yeah, the GPS appears to have been a disaster in this workout (urban environment with lots of open spaces and no buildings taller than 5 floors so nothing tricky).

This was with my iPhone XR in my running belt. I'll try airplane mode on the watch next time, but I think I've tried that in the past and it wasn't that good either.

 

[cfc]

It was only a 5K. The GPS average accuracy was 17m and minimum accuracy was 112m. So yeah, the GPS appears to have been a disaster in this workout (urban environment with lots of open spaces and no buildings taller than 5 floors so nothing tricky).

This was with my iPhone XR in my running belt. I'll try airplane mode on the watch next time, but I think I've tried that in the past and it wasn't that good either.

Unfortunately there isn't much the app can do about the GPS. This is why it uses Apple's calibrated distances by default, because they should not be affected by a poor GPS signal.

Airplane mode doesn't necessarily stop the watch from using the iPhone GPS. The best way to prevent it is to switch off Bluetooth on the iPhone, which usually works. Failing that some people switch off the phone completely.

 

[TheMixam]

Unfortunately there isn't much the app can do about the GPS. This is why it uses Apple's calibrated distances by default, because they should not be affected by a poor GPS signal.

Airplane mode doesn't necessarily stop the watch from using the iPhone GPS. The best way to prevent it is to switch off Bluetooth on the iPhone, which usually works. Failing that some people switch off the phone completely.

Can't I disable bluetooth manually in the Watch settings to force it to use the internal GPS?

(iPhone + AirPods Pro for music, so I don't want to disable bluetooth on the iPhone. I'd use Spotify on the Watch if it wasn't for the download limit of 50 songs per playlist.)

So the distance shown in the WorkOutDoors app is all sensors and no GPS? And then Strava shows the GPS distance, because it syncs with GPX? For this runs WorkOutDoors and Strava show the exact same distance (for other runs there's can be a difference of +/- 0.01 km). EDIT: seems like I have TCX selected instead of GPX.

 

[cfc]

Can't I disable bluetooth manually in the Watch settings to force it to use the internal GPS?

(iPhone + AirPods Pro for music, so I don't want to disable bluetooth on the iPhone. I'd use Spotify on the Watch if it wasn't for the download limit of 50 songs per playlist.)

So the distance shown in the WorkOutDoors app is all sensors and no GPS? And then Strava shows the GPS distance, because it syncs with GPX? For this runs WorkOutDoors and Strava show the exact same distance (for other runs there's can be a difference of +/- 0.01 km). EDIT: seems like I have TCX selected instead of GPX.

It seems to vary from version to version of iOS/watchOS but the last I heard switching off bluetooth on the watch was not enough because watchOS somehow still used it to get the GPS. However that does seem to vary according to setup so it is worth trying. You should be able to see if it works because the GPS signal strength shown on the app will drop for a few seconds as it switches. It usually goes from blue to red and then back to blue again.

Ever since the series 2 watch included a GPS sensor developers like me have been asking Apple to allow us to force the watch to use it, but Apple have refused. Or to be more accurate they have ignored us because they never reply to any such requests. My guess is that they are worried about bad publicity from the resulting extra battery draw on the watch, but maybe I am just being cynical.

By default the distance used by WorkOutDoors is that provided by Apple's workout system. They do not reveal much detail about how it is calculated but that link on calibration seems to imply that it involves using GPS to calculate your stride length and then uses that to calculate the distance.

And, as I mentioned, if people tell the watch they are running when they are actually doing something else then that can seriously affect Apple's distances, which implies that the GPS is not taken into account much (which surprises me). However I expect that they are constantly refining the way that distances are calculated so this may change.

If you send GPX files to Strava then it will calculate the distance from the GPS locations because GPX files cannot contain explicit distances. This is why the app defaults to using TCX files, which can contain distances. However Strava often (but not always) ignore the distances in TCX files and recalculate them from the GPS anyway, which is very annoying (especially as most other systems respect the data in the file).

So you are lucky that your Strava distances match so exactly. It sounds like Strava is actually reading the distances in the TCX file for you, because it is unlikely that pedometer-based distance estimates and GPS-based distance estimates would always match so exactly.

 

[TheMixam]

It seems to vary from version to version of iOS/watchOS but the last I heard switching off bluetooth on the watch was not enough because watchOS somehow still used it to get the GPS. However that does seem to vary according to setup so it is worth trying. You should be able to see if it works because the GPS signal strength shown on the app will drop for a few seconds as it switches. It usually goes from blue to red and then back to blue again.

I have tested it a few times now and I assume that green iPhone in control center = iPhone GPS and red iPhone = Watch GPS. When I disable Bluetooth but WiFi is still enabled, it shows a WiFi logo instead of a red or green iPhone, so I assume it's then using WiFi to determine the location.

So I think I'll just disable WiFi and Bluetooth in airplane mode and use airplane mode for running.

Normal behaviour (iPhone GPS):

Airplane mode enabled with bluetooth enabled (iPhone GPS):

Airplane mode enabled with bluetooth & WiFi disabled (Watch GPS):

Only bluetooth disabled (location from WiFi?):

 

[cfc]

I have tested it a few times now and I assume that green iPhone in control center = iPhone GPS and red iPhone = Watch GPS. When I disable Bluetooth but WiFi is still enabled, it shows a WiFi logo instead of a red or green iPhone, so I assume it's then using WiFi to determine the location.

So I think I'll just disable WiFi and Bluetooth in airplane mode and use airplane mode for running.

Normal behaviour (iPhone GPS):
View attachment 1865738

Airplane mode enabled with bluetooth enabled (iPhone GPS):
View attachment 1865740

Airplane mode enabled with bluetooth & WiFi disabled (Watch GPS):
View attachment 1865741

Only bluetooth disabled (location from WiFi?):
View attachment 1865742

The colour of the iPhone indicates whether the iPhone is connected (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205550) but the question is whether it also means that the iPhone will provide the GPS. The GPS icon just means that an app is using GPS; it doesn't say where it is coming from. As far as I know Apple don't make that available anywhere.

In the past I have seen situations where the watch has had WiFi and Bluetooth disabled and also put in airplane mode and yet it still gets the GPS from the iPhone.

I just tested this out and I could definitely see the GPS signal briefly go red when switching off Bluetooth and WiFi on the iPhone but didn't see the same effect when doing it on the watch. However it didn't go red when I then switched off Bluetooth and Wifi on the iPhone, so it's hard to tell what is going on. This is probably because both sensors have a lock by then, so I will try again later.

The best solution may be to determine why your iPhone is getting a bad signal. Maybe try carrying it in a different place.

 

[TheMixam]

I have a non-cellular series 6, maybe that matters? The GPS signal dropped for a few seconds when it switched from the green to the red iPhone logo. It didn’t drop when it switched from the green iPhone logo to the WiFi logo.

 

[cfc]

I have a non-cellular series 6, maybe that matters? The GPS signal dropped for a few seconds when it switched from the green to the red iPhone logo. It didn’t drop when it switched from the green iPhone logo to the WiFi logo.

If both the watch and the iPhone are connected to the same WiFi network (e.g. at home) then it can be used as a way for the phone to connect to the watch even if Bluetooth is switched off. So WiFi is best switched off and ignored if you are testing this sort of thing with a WiFi network available.