Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[TDIDawg]

Would it be possible to use a calibration factor for runs in order to correct distance derived from Apple's system? With previous S3, S4, and my current S6, Apple's pedometer/GPS algorithms always over-calculate distances for my runs. The good news is the watch consistently over-calculates my running distance by ~2%, so using a calibration factor where the app would multiple a run's distance by .98 would be great.

Thank you for the great work in making this app available!

Joseph

 

[cfc]

Would it be possible to use a calibration factor for runs in order to correct distance derived from Apple's system? With previous S3, S4, and my current S6, Apple's pedometer/GPS algorithms always over-calculate distances for my runs. The good news is the watch consistently over-calculates my running distance by ~2%, so using a calibration factor where the app would multiple a run's distance by .98 would be great.

Thank you for the great work in making this app available!

Joseph

A few people have asked for this in the past, but not enough that it is high on my list. Sorry about that.

However I may find that when I release the Stryd functionality to testers that they want a similar capability for the distances from that (because the Stryd app offers a calibration factor). If so then I may also make it available for Apple's distances as well.

Glad you like the app!

 

[NME42]

The good news is the watch consistently over-calculates my running distance by ~2%,

Some folks reported in this Forum that since watchOS 8 their Apple training apps do over-calculate only about 1% compared to the 2% in releases before.
No idea where the distance is calculated. Already in system layer or in the app.

 

[cfc]

Some folks reported in this Forum that since watchOS 8 their Apple training apps do over-calculate only about 1% compared to the 2% in releases before.
No idea where the distance is calculated. Already in system layer or in the app.

It's calculated by watchOS and reported to apps during a workout. Good to hear that Apple are improving it!

 

[firewire9000]

Any news about the new screen sizes for the app?

 

[cfc]

Any news about the new screen sizes for the app?

The current release version of the app looks fine on the new models, because watchOS automatically puts a black border around apps that have not been updated for them, making the apps look identical to how they look on the series 4/5/6.

However the next version of WorkOutDoors will take advantage of the whole screen. I have coded it up and it seems to work well. The screen is noticeably larger but not massively so like the jump from the series 3 to the series 4.

 

[jtsang2000]

Any further update on when you maybe releasing the beta version?

 

[cfc]

Any further update on when you maybe releasing the beta version?

It is all coded up and I am currently alpha testing and will hopefully soon be ready for beta testing.

At the moment the vast majority of my time is spent dealing with support questions etc. When a new watch is released there are lots of questions from people interesting the app, as well as new users of the app (many of whom are also new users of the watch).

It's good because it means that people are buying the app, but it does prevent me from doing much other work. So I won't be focussing on testing until things slow down a bit. Sorry about that.

 

[jtsang2000]

It is all coded up and I am currently alpha testing and will hopefully soon be ready for beta testing.

At the moment the vast majority of my time is spent dealing with support questions etc. When a new watch is released there are lots of questions from people interesting the app, as well as new users of the app (many of whom are also new users of the watch).

It's good because it means that people are buying the app, but it does prevent me from doing much other work. So I won't be focussing on testing until things slow down a bit. Sorry about that.

That's good to hear. Looking for forward to the beta release.

 

[TheMixam]

If both the watch and the iPhone are connected to the same WiFi network (e.g. at home) then it can be used as a way for the phone to connect to the watch even if Bluetooth is switched off. So WiFi is best switched off and ignored if you are testing this sort of thing with a WiFi network available.

Just wanted to let you know that disabling WiFi and Bluetooth in the airplane settings and enabling airplane on the Watch is enough (at least for me) to use the Watch's GPS.

I had 17m avg / 112 min and 10m avg / 128m min on the last 2 runs before using airplane mode on the Watch.

Since enabling airplane mode on the watch, I ran the same route twice again and they are 6m avg / 12m min and 7m avg / 12m min. (I left WiFi and Bluetooth enabled on the iPhone.)

 

[cfc]

Just wanted to let you know that disabling WiFi and Bluetooth in the airplane settings and enabling airplane on the Watch is enough (at least for me) to use the Watch's GPS.

I had 17m avg / 112 min and 10m avg / 128m min on the last 2 runs before using airplane mode on the Watch.

Since enabling airplane mode on the watch, I ran the same route twice again and they are 6m avg / 12m min and 7m avg / 12m min. (I left WiFi and Bluetooth enabled on the iPhone.)

It is strange how different users find that different settings are required to force the watch to use its own GPS when the iPhone is present. Glad you managed to get it working.

 

[maurycyorlik]

To make it clear how AW/iP GPS works:

Apple Watch talks to iPhone through BT and WiFi* (*not directly like BT, it talks through known WiFi network).
So if You want GPS from Your watch, You have to disable BT and WiFi on any of them.

When You are far from home, You just need to turn off BT on AW or iP. But when You are near Your home when You start Your workout, then its best to disable them both. Why? For example, when I'm near my home and have BT off on AW or my iP they both connect to my strong WiFi network and my GPS fix is from my iPhone. Then after riding 50m my WiFi disconnects and AW is switching to it's GPS, because it cannot talk to my iPhone anymore. The problem is, that AW is now trying to get a FIX while im riding and this is the time when you get those +- distances and incorrect data.

So to be sure - red X phone icon on the Apple Watch Guarantees Your GPS is from Your Watch.
The same is with cellular bars - when You see them, Your GPS is from Your Watch.

 

[cfc]

To make it clear how AW/iP GPS works:

Apple Watch talks to iPhone through BT and WiFi* (*not directly like BT, it talks through known WiFi network).
So if You want GPS from Your watch, You have to disable BT and WiFi on any of them.

When You are far from home, You just need to turn off BT on AW or iP. But when You are near Your home when You start Your workout, then its best to disable them both. Why? For example, when I'm near my home and have BT off on AW or my iP they both connect to my strong WiFi network and my GPS fix is from my iPhone. Then after riding 50m my WiFi disconnects and AW is switching to it's GPS, because it cannot talk to my iPhone anymore. The problem is, that AW is now trying to get a FIX while im riding and this is the time when you get those +- distances and incorrect data.

So to be sure - red X phone icon on the Apple Watch Guarantees Your GPS is from Your Watch.
The same is with cellular bars - when You see them, Your GPS is from Your Watch.

This is how I would expect it to work, and is probably how it does work these days, but in the past I have switched both the bluetooth and the WiFi off on the watch and the watch has still been using the phone's GPS.

This was reported by several users and I confirmed it by switching WiFi and Bluetooth off and then waiting a while before switching off the iPhone completely. Only then would the GPS signal drop for a few seconds and then recover. This was a couple of years ago though so may have been a bug that has since been fixed. I couldn't reproduce it now.

It may be that it only happened if the GPS connection was already established before switching the radios off, but I didn't test that at the time.

I have also seen variation over the years in how airplane mode works on the watch in that it sometimes prevented the iPhone GPS from being used and sometimes it did not.

This is why I don't like to recommend what people should do to force the watch to use its own GPS: because it has changed over the years, and any such advice could be out of date if it changes again.

Switching off the bluetooth on the phone has always worked, but the only guaranteed way to ensure it is to switch off the iPhone completely. So I usually recommend that when testing to see if the iPhone GPS is the cause of any problems. It is obviously not a long term fix because people usually bring their iPhone for a reason, but it is the best way to diagnose the cause when your GPS is poor and you suspect the iPhone.

I just wish that Apple would allow apps to choose where the GPS comes from because it has always been one of the most confusing issues for both users and developers. If they are worried about battery usage then force apps to display some sort of disclaimer when using the watch GPS when the iPhone is connected.

I am sure that they have their reasons but, in typical Apple fashion, they will probably never explain them.

 

[Bob190]

A few people have asked for this in the past, but not enough that it is high on my list. Sorry about that.

However I may find that when I release the Stryd functionality to testers that they want a similar capability for the distances from that (because the Stryd app offers a calibration factor). If so then I may also make it available for Apple's distances as well.

Glad you like the app!

I think it is an absolute necessity to have a calibration factor adjustment for WOD. Even though Stryd advertises that their pod doesn't need calibrating, I have always found that it under reported distances for me .. thus I use a calibration factor of 103.1 or 1.031 (depending on the app/device used) which is spot on to known distances. I have been using Stryd for years and that calibration factor continues to give me accurate results.

 

[NME42]

I think it is an absolute necessity to have a calibration factor adjustment for WOD. Even though Stryd advertises that their pod doesn't need calibrating, I have always found that it under reported distances for me .. thus I use a calibration factor of 103.1 or 1.031 (depending on the app/device used) which is spot on to known distances. I have been using Stryd for years and that calibration factor continues to give me accurate results.

+1. Calibration factor for Stryd is an absolute necessity.

I have 1.025 and depending on the shoes this could be a little more or less, but I keep it on this value.

 

[neil_cm17]

A few people have asked for this in the past, but not enough that it is high on my list. Sorry about that.

However I may find that when I release the Stryd functionality to testers that they want a similar capability for the distances from that (because the Stryd app offers a calibration factor). If so then I may also make it available for Apple's distances as well.

Glad you like the app!

I have a Stryd that has been calibrated on a track and I've found that when I upgraded to WatchOS 8 I lost all my calibration data and that when it re-calibrated the distances that workoutdoors reported matched up almost exactly with what Stryd was reporting. I think the difference was this time I calibrated the watch by running and previously it was by walking.

 

[cfc]

So it sounds like I definitely need to add calibration for sensors that supply distance. I will probably also offer it for sensors that offer instantaneous pace. For sensors such as Stryd that offer both distance and the instantaneous pace then one calibration factor should affect both. So if Stryd is reporting a distance of 10 miles and an instantaneous pace of 5mph, and you have a calibration factor of 1.032, then the app should report a distance of 10.32 miles and also report an instantaneous pace of 5.16mph? How does that sound?

Note that I am talking about the instantaneous pace here. The average pace is always derived from the distance and time.

 

[cfjmooney]

Hi Ian,
Just first to congratulate you on such a super app - it really is amazing, and for me exemplifies what Apple Watch could and should be all about. I purchased it about a month ago and have been using it increasingly since then. I’m having great fun customising my screens, and suspect that it will be the work of a lifetime to find “the one”!
I have a couple of minor problems:
1. Since the get-go, the app doesn’t close when I finish a run. When the watch goes dim on a normal watch face, the app pops right back on again the next time I activate the watch. No big deal - I can force quit, but wondered if there was a better way to deal with this
2. Since today, when I press the start button, I get a verbal message saying “Error with that event. Consecutive resume event”. I’m not brave enough to run with the app following that message in case it doesn’t get recorded, so would appreciate your advice please. (Today I upgraded to iOS15 and WatchOS8. Whether it has anything to do with this or not, I don’t know, but I’m not a big believer in coincidences!)
I do apologise if these have been covered already in this very comprehensive thread, and thank you once again for your work.
Conor

 

[joefrank64k]

I am super pleased with this app so far. Last night went on a short run with it for the first time and it worked great. Love the colors and ability to customize to the nth degree. Looks great on the 45mm S7.

 

[tcarlisle]

I use WOD for all fitness tracking but my primary use is for navigation while hiking as WOD provides a superior map and navigation experience than any other app. Recently, I saw a post mentioning the next release will include topo maps, which is awesome. I was hoping you could provide some details about this? Specifically I'm wondering what the additional costs might be and also what map source(s) will be offered--i.e. is it Mapbox/OSM based and are you adding satellite too or just topo?

In addition, if you need beta testers for this I'm happy to help out.

Thanks!

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian,
Just first to congratulate you on such a super app - it really is amazing, and for me exemplifies what Apple Watch could and should be all about. I purchased it about a month ago and have been using it increasingly since then. I’m having great fun customising my screens, and suspect that it will be the work of a lifetime to find “the one”!
I have a couple of minor problems:
1. Since the get-go, the app doesn’t close when I finish a run. When the watch goes dim on a normal watch face, the app pops right back on again the next time I activate the watch. No big deal - I can force quit, but wondered if there was a better way to deal with this
2. Since today, when I press the start button, I get a verbal message saying “Error with that event. Consecutive resume event”. I’m not brave enough to run with the app following that message in case it doesn’t get recorded, so would appreciate your advice please. (Today I upgraded to iOS15 and WatchOS8. Whether it has anything to do with this or not, I don’t know, but I’m not a big believer in coincidences!)
I do apologise if these have been covered already in this very comprehensive thread, and thank you once again for your work.
Conor

In terms of not closing this may be because you have enabled the "Keep the GPS on after use" option in Other Settings. This option is no longer necessary. The app used to do this in the past so that it didn't temporarily lose the GPS signal if you dropped your wrist before starting a workout. However watchOS changed the way things worked and for some users it started to appear that the app would never close. So I made it optional, defaulting to off.

Sorry about the "consecutive resume events" error. You are correct that it is not a coincidence and is indeed related to watchOS 8. It only happens when using Apple's auto-pause and can be ignored. If it is annoying then you could switch to the app's auto-pause algorithm instead. I have fixed it in the code and it will not happen in the next version.

Glad you like the app!

 

[cfc]

I use WOD for all fitness tracking but my primary use is for navigation while hiking as WOD provides a superior map and navigation experience than any other app. Recently, I saw a post mentioning the next release will include topo maps, which is awesome. I was hoping you could provide some details about this? Specifically I'm wondering what the additional costs might be and also what map source(s) will be offered--i.e. is it Mapbox/OSM based and are you adding satellite too or just topo?

In addition, if you need beta testers for this I'm happy to help out.

Thanks!

The topo map data will come from a company called Thunderforest, who supply the maps for OpenCycleMap (and a lot more). They will not require any extra payment because, unlike Mapbox, they do not charge extra for the topo data.

Mapbox will still be the default in the next version, but you will be able to switch to Thunderforest maps if you wish. If it goes well then I will probably make Thunderforest the default in the future but at first I am playing it safe. The Thunderforest map tiles are much larger than the Mapbox tiles so they will be slower to download and transfer to the watch and may possibly exceed resource limits on the watch for some particularly detailed areas. They have been fine for me but I cannot test every area, so I am still wary.

So it would be good if you can beta test it. Please email info@workoutdoors.net and I will let you know when the beta is ready.

I would love to add satellite maps as well in the future, but at the moment I can't find a source that would not cost me extra money which I would have to pass on in the form of a subscription or in-app purchase, neither I which I want to add.

 

[cfc]

Here are some screenshots of the configuration screens for the new terrain map when looking at an area at the top of Mont Blanc. The first image shows how it looks at the moment without the terrain data. The 2nd image shows the same area with the new contours and hill shading.

The 3rd image shows what I call "Smart Contours", which are coloured according to your elevation and therefore change as your elevation changes. You can choose a different colour for the contours above and below you. In that image I have selected red contours for above and blue for below. The idea is that the colours give you context, so you can more easily and quickly understand the terrain. I think that it is particularly useful on the small watch screen because it is harder to get context when looking at a smaller area.

 

[MaxSto]

Here are some screenshots of the configuration screens for the new terrain map when looking at an area at the top of Mont Blanc. The first image shows how it looks at the moment without the terrain data. The 2nd image shows the same area with the new contours and hill shading.

The 3rd image shows what I call "Smart Contours", which are coloured according to your elevation and therefore change as your elevation changes. You can choose a different colour for the contours above and below you. In that image I have selected red contours for above and blue for below. The idea is that the colours give you context, so you can more easily and quickly understand the terrain. I think that it is particularly useful on the small watch screen because it is harder to get context when looking at a smaller area.

View attachment 1872664

Smart Contours - Awesome Idea!
Can’t wait to use those maps outside in the mountains!

 

[user1234]

Here are some screenshots of the configuration screens for the new terrain map when looking at an area at the top of Mont Blanc. The first image shows how it looks at the moment without the terrain data. The 2nd image shows the same area with the new contours and hill shading.

The 3rd image shows what I call "Smart Contours", which are coloured according to your elevation and therefore change as your elevation changes. You can choose a different colour for the contours above and below you. In that image I have selected red contours for above and blue for below. The idea is that the colours give you context, so you can more easily and quickly understand the terrain. I think that it is particularly useful on the small watch screen because it is harder to get context when looking at a smaller area.

View attachment 1872664

Looks great! Can't wait to try this when available! ??