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MrBukey

macrumors regular
Apr 10, 2015
180
211
I was half disappointed, and half not. We've been here before, after all! Using the M1 in iPads for economies of scale makes perfect sense, whether or not other possibilities are realised or implemented.

There was a lot of really good "feature enhancements" (I'll go with that as a term) and iteration. The one reason I might have got my hopes up a little bit was the fact that they were purposefully calling out the M1 iPad Pro's with 1TB/2TB disk space having 16GB RAM. I mean, Apple never even used to tell us RAM specs at all. Why would they highlight the difference if they had no plan for it?

I draw the conclusion that Apple have got plans for the M1 iPads, but we're all jumping the gun. We know that they care about end-to-end responsibility/control/experience.. And we know they care about quality control (and that they've been stung before, albeit normally hardware issues eg antennagate)...

But we can still see hints of a converged experience being highlighted here - Universal Control, SharePlay, Xcode Cloud... It may not have been the convergence that some of us would have loved to have seen (whether that be the fabled-and-would-be-awesome-but-probably-not-gonna-happen MacOS on iPad Pro, or whether that be MacOS M1 apps on iPad which makes a bit more sense, but still might not happen). And all I can think is that either Covid had a major impact on Apple's plans and/or things weren't quite as ready to be signed off as we'd all hoped...

Or... They're exactly where they'd planned to be, and a higher level of convergence is something they're still figuring out, or have planned for further down the roadmap... But, personally, I don't buy that

In professional life, I've seen a lot of people from Microsoft Technical Account Managers to coders to company execs and middle management thrilled with Microsoft's 2-in-1 Surface offerings. Microsoft have dabble with ARM chips and retreated a few times, and what they currently have doesn't match Apple. But they're also going ARM on servers, which is where the $$$ will come from, and that will enable them to spend more on R&D and compete.

So, to this common argument:

I think apple is fine to let iPad be its own thing. I can understand why, if they make it too close to the Mac then sales of Macs go down.

So what? Apple were failing when Steve Jobs was booted out... (And it was cruel to boot him out, but the best thing for Apple at the time, and the best thing for Apple and Jobs in the long run...) When Jobs came back to Apple, he simplified their offerings, but one of his famous key messages was not to be afraid of cannibalising product lines.

A prime example is the iPod. The iPhone replaced the need for an iPod. So what?

If an iPad replaces the need for all or some MacBooks, so what? The purpose for Apple is to make people's lives better with personal technology. They charge a premium because they do it so well.

If the iPad and MacBook share the same technical characteristics (processors, RAM, disk space), what would be the need for the different form factors? The iPad has a more convenient form factor. The "gubbings" are in the screen, a keyboard and mouse can be attached when needed -and it has touch input.

The MacBook has better cooling ability. Using Intel chips, this is something critically needed, especially for "Pro" type uses (eg photo/video editing, sound production). ARM processors in the M1 has changed this, but still, the ability to cool will still offer a major advantage to a MacBook Pro, but at the cost of the flexibility of the iPad's form factor.

The MacBook Pro also has the benefit of having a form factor for more ports, and a better keyboard, built in. It also uses an industry standard screen ratio of 16:9. The iPad can offer a choice of keyboards - even natively from Apple with the Smart Folio Keyboard Cover and the Magic Keyboard. Both are decent offerings - the benefit of the Smart Folio is the lightness. The benefit of the Magic Keyboard is the Apple keyboard experience and trackpad.

My point is, that there will still be use cases for the different form factors, even if they're different from what they are today - but the audience overall will be the same. If they're running on the same processors, why inhibit what each product can do.

I think it might mean the end of the MacBook Air and standard MacBook... But there's still Apple products in the iPad with a keyboard case and mouse that could cover them.

As I say. If Apple had taken the "oh it'll hurt another product line's sales" approach, we'd never have had the iPhone.

So we can put a brave face on it. But the reality is that the M1 Ipad exists basically because of economies of scale in chip production - rather than they had any special plans that would need it. Otherwise, why not make an A series X chip.

This makes sense, but as above. Why go out of the way to market the RAM differences? There has to be a bigger plan, and I think that Apple just aren't production ready for it yet. They've made no promises, so they've told us no lies. Anyone that's gambled has done so on their own terms. I understand why they did, but that was speculative on their part.

In all honesty, if it was just economies of scale, they could have made the same chip with different names M1 and A14. Even if the exact same chip, why would it have mattered to give it a different designation (and really wouldn't have taken much on the production line front to do that).

So that fact, combined with the calling out the RAM differential on purpose in marketing... Leads to a cynical "Apple are playing people to extract money from them" card, or they have a bigger plan in mind with convergence of some kind.

Apple can already extract money from us. They know that. The thing is, if we go the cynical route, that might get loyal advocates to part with money today... But be disillusioned in a year or two so go elsewhere.

If we go the convergence route... It may just not be ready quite now. With everything we've been through this past 15 months as a planet, okay. I can accept that. I also think Apple are kinda hedging their bets a bit, and that they want to be seen as leaders rather than followers... Which causes them paralysis in doing the right thing or progressing sometimes?

Which brings me to this:

I think people are disappointed when they explicitly expect things that apple has repeatedly tell you they won't do.

Apple told us that they wouldn't give us a stylus. They gave us the Apple Pencil - which is the world's best stylus. They told us that they wouldn't allow us to use a mouse for the iPad, but they did firstly through an accessibility excuse, and then allowing it mainstream and now tying it into Universal Control.

Apple have an awesome vision, but sometimes when they get it wrong they need admit it and capitalise on that for everyone's benefit... Rather than being stubborn for the sake of ultimately being "wrong".

That's not to say that they should rush decisions, or go in a direction just because it's popular at the time. There is a balance to be struck --- but I for one would love to be able to take my iPad Pro on holiday and be able to do most, if not all, of whatI can with my MacBook Pro. If I could, I'd still probably buy a Mac Pro or a Mac Mini if they could do better at some tasks at the desktop.
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,783
So Calif
I didn't find it disappointing because I went into today not basing my tech happiness on rumors and false expectations. If you look at Apple's history, today was right on track Apple.
Agree - in the past it's been more about a software developers conference - I used to be part of the developers working to create new apps and update old ones.

All the rumors about new hardware was wishful thinking and I know this conference shows more about the advances in iOS, Mac OS, WatchOS, TVOS, etc...

It will create more hunger in fall when the new devices will be announced....

I for one will be looking forward to the new Monterey Mac OS - will be able to use one trackpad/mouse/keyboard on multiple devices!
 
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DreamPod

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2008
1,265
188
Siri was never a stand-alone App. It was the flagship feature for the launch of the iPhone 4S and was fully built-into iOS. I remember this very clearly.

It was partly based on technology from an App which Apple had acquired. But that App was different from Siri (not just the name, the functionality as well).
I remember it too, I had played around with the stand-alone Siri app, and then Apple bought the company, removed it from the app store, and made a big deal about it in iOS the next year. When using Siri to look things up on the internet, it wasn't really different at all, the results even looked very similar. The two biggest changes after Apple bought the developer, was giving Siri a voice (which is one of the things it required the web for at the time), and letting it access Apple first-party apps like Weather, the timer, Messenger, stocks. Yes, that's a big difference, but the original app already used multiple sources to find the best results, including sorting restaurants by their Yelp rating, which was something that Apple made a big deal about at the conference. It just now had more sources for results, like Apple Maps. And could control certain parts of the phone, something a third party app wasn't allowed to do.
 

gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
2,020
2,307
Why is it so hard to implement proper external display support. As Nike say, JUST DO IT!
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,673
52,521
In a van down by the river
Agree - in the past it's been more about a software developers conference - I used to be part of the developers working to create new apps and update old ones.

All the rumors about new hardware was wishful thinking and I know this conference shows more about the advances in iOS, Mac OS, WatchOS, TVOS, etc...

It will create more hunger in fall when the new devices will be announced....

I for one will be looking forward to the new Monterey Mac OS - will be able to use one trackpad/mouse/keyboard on multiple devices!
I think Apple is laying the foundation for more Teams type integration into MacOS and other features to help user collaborate even more when apart in real time. I could be wrong but, that is part of what I got from Monterey.
 
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bscheffel

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2008
368
683
WWDC would be forgiven if Apple would just let me bootcamp a 2021 IPP into Big Sur when I need to do something that requires MacOS. MacOS doesn't support touchscreen so this would require mouse and keyboard (or Magic Keyboard) and that is 100% fine with me. This used to not be possible with the RAM in iPads but that is no longer an issue with 8GB standard on 2021 IPP. There is no technical barrier to do this and it doesn't compromise or change iOS or MacOS in any way. It's only a policy decision on Apple's part that people will no doubt attribute to "Apple wants to sell you both iPad and Mac". Which might be true but iPad's cost the same as Macs now so it irks me a bit.
 

gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
2,020
2,307
So realistically, knowing what we know now:

M1 iPad Pro overkill? iPad Air is looking really solid for me right now. I don't see much advantage between Air and 11" Pro. Limited by software, the A14 looks more than capable for years to come.

Thoughts?
Imo, if you are settled on a 11in iPad, the Pro is a silly purchase.
 
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Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,673
52,521
In a van down by the river
Right on track for 45% of the WWDCs in their history that have had no hardware. The other 65% did. ;)

My guess is these MBPs got pulled because of supply and/or design constraints due to mini-LED and Taiwanese chip shortage. Otherwise, they would have announced.
We will to have to agree to disagree because I don't think a Mac announcement was ever intended. :)
 
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gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
2,020
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WWDC would be forgiven if Apple would just let me bootcamp a 2021 IPP into Big Sur when I need to do something that requires MacOS. MacOS doesn't support touchscreen so this would require mouse and keyboard (or Magic Keyboard) and that is 100% fine with me. This used to not be possible with the RAM in iPads but that is no longer an issue with 8GB standard on 2021 IPP. There is no technical barrier to do this and it doesn't compromise or change iOS or MacOS in any way. It's only a policy decision on Apple's part that people will no doubt attribute to "Apple wants to sell you both iPad and Mac". Which might be true but iPad's cost the same as Macs now so it irks me a bit.
It will never happen but I would LOVE that. Just for times where I need more than iPad OS but don't want to take a Mac, i.e. going away for a long weekend or something similar.
 

bscheffel

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2008
368
683
It will never happen but I would LOVE that. Just for times where I need more than iPad OS but don't want to take a Mac, i.e. going away for a long weekend or something similar.
That's my use case exactly. Afraid to leave the work laptop at home for weekend trips/vacations because there could be that 10% chance I can't do something I need to. It isn't just the OS and Apple software that limits me too - it's usability and feature parity in MS Office, Spotify, etc. on iPad.
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,783
So Calif
We will to have to agree to disagree because I don't think a Mac announcement was ever intended. :)
People are easily click baited by the Internet for any new Mac rumors

I knew based on last year's cycle for new hardware, it would be Q3 2021.

Just in time for the holidays.

Saving my money for the new iPhone !
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,673
52,521
In a van down by the river
I agree with you for the most part *except* Apple did alot of things out of the norm with the new iPad Pro hardware that seemed to indicate change was afoot; disclosing RAM and offering a version with 2X the RAM as the other model, using the same processor as Mac. If iPadOS 15 was going to be business as usual they would have given it an A14X processor and quietly given it 2GB more RAM. That would be "right on track" for Apple iPad hardware.
I don't disagree that "change is afoot" with the new iPad. The problem is the false expectation many had as to when that should be. I think many assumed rumors and forum hype that wasn't true that also may have been the impetus for purchasing the new iPad.

Apple plays the long game. They are often slow with brings their app to the same user level as many third party apps (I think) because of issues of integration and privacy. As such, they are doing what they do best right now in laying new OS groundwork while at the same time, presenting new hardware that is turning heads and causing a rift in old boundaries.

Many people around here assumed that with a new hardware release, the long game software that compliments the new hardware was ready. And today showed that Apple isn't willing to reveal their hand just yet when it comes to their long game vision for the iPad Pro.
 

gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
2,020
2,307
That's my use case exactly. Afraid to leave the work laptop at home for weekend trips/vacations because there could be that 10% chance I can't do something I need to. It isn't just the OS and Apple software that limits me too - it's usability and feature parity in MS Office, Spotify, etc. on iPad.
It's crazy how an M1 MBA is cheaper than the 12.9 iPad Pro. It's such good value by comparison, but at home I just like having a touch screen device, e.g. whilst having lunch or chilling on the sofa. Oh well, at least I am saving money by keeping my 2018 iPad Pro.
 
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kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
It's crazy how an M1 MBA is cheaper than the 12.9 iPad Pro. It's such good value by comparison, but at home I just like having a touch screen device, e.g. whilst having lunch or chilling on the sofa. Oh well, at least I am saving money by keeping my 2018 iPad Pro.
Well, no touch panel, no ProMotion display, less exacting manufacturing tolerances. The MacBook Air is really just a Mac mini with a display panel, keyboard, and trackpad.
 

JSteele

macrumors regular
Mar 19, 2021
110
107
Overall I was happy with the new iPad before the announcement, and I am still happy with it after :D Some cool new features coming but I doubt many will be groundbreaking for me in any way. The screen companion is likely to be the feature I use the most. But really just felt like a minor but welcome upgrade to iPad OS and the app ecosystem as a whole. Hopefully next time they push the barrier a bit more.
 
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bscheffel

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2008
368
683
I don't disagree that "change is afoot" with the new iPad. The problem is the false expectation many had as to when that should be. I think many assumed rumors and forum hype that wasn't true that also may have been the impetus for purchasing the new iPad.

Apple plays the long game. They are often slow with brings their app to the same user level as many third party apps (I think) because of issues of integration and privacy. As such, they are doing what they do best right now in laying new OS groundwork while at the same time, presenting new hardware that is turning heads and causing a rift in old boundaries.

Many people around here assumed that with a new hardware release, the long game software that compliments the new hardware was ready. And today showed that Apple isn't willing to reveal their hand just yet when it comes to their long game vision for the iPad Pro.
I agree with you but while they play the "long game" with iPadOS please let me dual boot in the short game :)
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,673
52,521
In a van down by the river
I agree with you but while they play the "long game" with iPadOS please let me dual boot in the short game :)
I get that you want to be able to eat your pizza and drink a beer (with the dual boot) while you wait for Apple to platy their game. :) Their game is made of up tiny pieces of a huge puzzle. To release something early to placate the pizza eater could really thought create havoc within inside the puzzle.

We have to be patient. I know that's not what you or anyone else wants to here but, that's what we have.
 

macdaddy43

macrumors member
May 5, 2021
83
220
Nope. That thing is officially a Mac replacement for me (strict home use with no external monitor support needed).

This is the iPad I KEEP.

Future software and updates will not bog this one down for a LONG time.

All for the same price I would have paid last year.
That’s a good point. For an extra $200 you would be future-proofing yourself in case Apple really does WOW us next year with iPadOS 16. Which is what I think might be coming (it has to, right? ?)
 
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macdaddy43

macrumors member
May 5, 2021
83
220
Yes, and also it is a better display and speakers. Sure the Air's display is fine, but having used a ProMotion display, going back to a lower refresh rate iPad would be a rather annoying downgrade for me.
Also a very valid point. Downgrading from 120 hz to 60 would drive me nuts. #FirstWorldProbz
 
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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,269
That’s a good point. For an extra $200 you would be future-proofing yourself in case Apple really does WOW us next year with iPadOS 16. Which is what I think might be coming (it has to, right? ?)

Nah. Next year is the iPhone year.

For Apple, iPadOS 15 is already the "big" change with the tweaks to multitasking. I mean, what did we even get iPad-wise on 14? Iirc, 13 was the "big" change before with (limited) Files app, mouse support and more desktop-like Safari.
 

bscheffel

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2008
368
683
I get that you want to be able to eat your pizza and drink a beer (with the dual boot) while you wait for Apple to platy their game. :) Their game is made of up tiny pieces of a huge puzzle. To release something early to placate the pizza eater could really thought create havoc within inside the puzzle.

We have to be patient. I know that's not what you or anyone else wants to here but, that's what we have.
Also a very valid point. Downgrading from 120 hz to 60 would drive me nuts. #FirstWorldProbz
Do people really notice the difference between promotion and regular refresh? I never once have moved from my iPad Pro to iPhone and thought "OMG - scrolling in Safari is so choppy on iPhone compared to iPad Pro"
 
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