Well he's not alone. I have no beef with Yosemite either. And whatever shortcomings it has it sure as hell beats the crap out of the alternative (Windows).
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Yosemite looks terrible!
- Thread starter OldGuyTom
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Well he's not alone. I have no beef with Yosemite either. And whatever shortcomings it has it sure as hell beats the crap out of the alternative (Windows).
Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;
Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike.
"Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" by Alexander Pope
Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;
Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike.
"Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" by Alexander Pope
I don't see the relevance of that quote or what you meant by posting it as a reply to what I said.
Sorry if I was oblique.
To say that Yosemite "sure as hell beats the crap out of the alternative (Windows)."
struck me as a perfect example of damning with faint praise. LOL
Best wishes, Etan
Sorry if I was oblique.
To say that Yosemite "sure as hell beats the crap out of the alternative (Windows)."
struck me as a perfect example of damning with faint praise. LOL
Best wishes, Etan
Well. I was damning windows and saying that Yosemite is fine by me. So if that was what the quote was about I guess it fit. But not all of us are English professors, so it's easy enough for something like that to go flying right over our heads. You're obviously quite well educated, if not a professor, in any case.
By saying that you're really downplaying your technical level and the legitimacy of your opinion of Yosemite. Just saying.
A few of you may know that I generally speak favorably of Yosemite... While it hasn't changed (meaning I kinda like it - and I "got used" to the UI) earlier this week I experienced a major crash with Pro Tools at work (not related to Yosemite), which has subsequently rendered the application unusable. On a side note, I'm a musician working mostly in film music, so using Pro Tools and audio apps in not a hobby for me, I need them to work, to be stable and reliable as I make my living with them. Pro Tools was so painful to use that I had no choice but to backup all my important stuff on the internal drive and do a clean install of OS X, then reinstall all my audio apps (fortunately my samples and audio libraries are on other drives otherwise it would take ages to install everything again).
As I'm still not sure where the problem came from, I've decided to not only start fresh, but also start "safe". So I chose to install Mavericks instead.
...Well...
It feels better. It feels better that Lucida Grande is back, feels better that the Finder is much faster than Yosemite's (system prefs open instantly, lists appear instantly, no lag whatsoever, etc), feels better that I don't have to reduce transparency to gain 5-10% of cpu or to simply have readable menus. I was thinking I would see how it goes and go from 10.9 to 10.10 again on this machine (Mac Pro 12 cores mid-2012), but after 2 hours in 10.9 (currently updating to 10.9.5 and installing all my applications, I think I'll just stay in 10.9.5 for the time being. Since this morning I've witnessed pretty clearly that Mavericks performance is much, much better than 10.10 with all its (unnecessary) bells & whistles. Plus, my Mac is not my iPhone, I don't need to make calls from my computer, I don't need icould drive, you get the idea...
I do like 10.10, in fact I installed 10.10.2 yesterday on my Mac Pro 1,1 with no trouble, it works fine, it's stable, but I don't want a slow OS, I don't want to deactivate some functions to make it better. And I still find it too bright.
I know I often come to this thread to say that Yosemite is not as bad as people say, well while I do think it is indeed more than tolerable, today I have to admit I'm glad I'm back to Mavericks (maybe I'll downgrade my other Mac Pro as well). When Apple released Yosemite a few months ago, I thought it was better to keep up with the most current OS. It seemed at least as good as Mavericks in terms of speed so I figured well let's just get used to this new look, no big deal, and frankly I've never experienced any major issue with 10.10 (so far). I don't know if I was fooling myself regarding Yosemite's performance or if I'm just having a nostalgia moment, but 10.9.5 is now my home. Again.
As I'm still not sure where the problem came from, I've decided to not only start fresh, but also start "safe". So I chose to install Mavericks instead.
...Well...
It feels better. It feels better that Lucida Grande is back, feels better that the Finder is much faster than Yosemite's (system prefs open instantly, lists appear instantly, no lag whatsoever, etc), feels better that I don't have to reduce transparency to gain 5-10% of cpu or to simply have readable menus. I was thinking I would see how it goes and go from 10.9 to 10.10 again on this machine (Mac Pro 12 cores mid-2012), but after 2 hours in 10.9 (currently updating to 10.9.5 and installing all my applications, I think I'll just stay in 10.9.5 for the time being. Since this morning I've witnessed pretty clearly that Mavericks performance is much, much better than 10.10 with all its (unnecessary) bells & whistles. Plus, my Mac is not my iPhone, I don't need to make calls from my computer, I don't need icould drive, you get the idea...
I do like 10.10, in fact I installed 10.10.2 yesterday on my Mac Pro 1,1 with no trouble, it works fine, it's stable, but I don't want a slow OS, I don't want to deactivate some functions to make it better. And I still find it too bright.
I know I often come to this thread to say that Yosemite is not as bad as people say, well while I do think it is indeed more than tolerable, today I have to admit I'm glad I'm back to Mavericks (maybe I'll downgrade my other Mac Pro as well). When Apple released Yosemite a few months ago, I thought it was better to keep up with the most current OS. It seemed at least as good as Mavericks in terms of speed so I figured well let's just get used to this new look, no big deal, and frankly I've never experienced any major issue with 10.10 (so far). I don't know if I was fooling myself regarding Yosemite's performance or if I'm just having a nostalgia moment, but 10.9.5 is now my home. Again.
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A few of you may know that I generally speak favorably of Yosemite... While it hasn't changed (meaning I kinda like it - and I "got used" to the UI) earlier this week I experienced a major crash with Pro Tools at work (not related to Yosemite), which has subsequently rendered the application unusable. On a side note, I'm a musician working mostly in film music, so using Pro Tools and audio apps in not a hobby for me, I need them to work, to be stable and reliable as I make my living with them. Pro Tools was so painful to use that I had no choice but to backup all my important stuff on the internal drive and do a clean install of OS X, then reinstall all my audio apps (fortunately my samples and audio libraries are on other drives otherwise it would take ages to install everything again).
As I'm still not sure where the problem came from, I've decided to not only start fresh, but also start "safe". So I chose to install Mavericks instead.
...Well...
It feels better. It feels better that Lucida Grande is back, feels better that the Finder is much more faster than Yosemite's (system prefs open instantly, lists appear instantly, no lag whatsoever, etc), feels better that I don't have to reduce transparency to gain 5-10% of cpu or to simply have readable menus. I was thinking I would see how it goes and go from 10.9 to 10.10 again on this machine (Mac Pro 12 cores mid-2012), but after 2 hours in 10.9 (currently updating to 10.9.5 and installing all my applications, I think I'll just stay in 10.9.5 for the time being. Since this morning I've witnessed pretty clearly that Mavericks performance is much, much better than 10.10 with all its (unnecessary) bells & whistles. Plus, my Mac is not my iPhone, I don't need to make calls from my computer, I don't need icould drive, you get the idea...
I do like 10.10, in fact I installed 10.10.2 yesterday on my Mac Pro 1,1 with no trouble, it works fine, it's stable, but I don't want a slow OS, I don't want to deactivate some functions to make it better. And I still find it too bright.
I know I often come to this thread to say that Yosemite is not as bad as people say, well while I do think it is indeed more than tolerable, today I have to admit I'm glad I'm back to Mavericks (maybe I'll downgrade my other Mac Pro as well). When Apple released Yosemite a few months ago, I thought it was better to keep up with the most current OS. It seemed at least as good as Mavericks in terms of speed so I figured well let's just get used to this new look, no big deal, and frankly I've never experienced any major issue with 10.10 (so far). I don't know if I was fooling myself regarding Yosemite's performance or if I'm just having a nostalgia moment, but 10.9.5 is now my home. Again.
I give you a lot of credit for this dispassionate report.
Too many of us have gotten so emotionally entrenched in our opinions pro and con, that we tend to treat Mavericks and Yosemite as rival sports teams to be cheered for or ridiculed, without weighing the pros and cons of each.
IMO, the frank report of your experience carries a lot more weight and heft.
Thank you.
Best wishes, Nate
I guess between Microsoft and Apple, UI design is now a race to the bottom. It's too bad that there aren't any other competitive operating systems on the market that have genuine vendor support.
It seems that they came out with 10.10.1 fairly fast, but 10.10.2 is taking a lot longer. I wonder if they're changing any of the appearance issues. With so many bugs to fix, I suppose they're working on just them.
They ought to at least make it compatible with their all of their own apps.
Did all the knowledgable people at Apple quit or something?
It seems that they came out with 10.10.1 fairly fast, but 10.10.2 is taking a lot longer. I wonder if they're changing any of the appearance issues. With so many bugs to fix, I suppose they're working on just them.
They ought to at least make it compatible with their all of their own apps.
Did all the knowledgable people at Apple quit or something?
Adjustment to Yosemite Changes
"Orangutangs are skeptical of changes in their cages."
A lot of folks out there have little tolerance for change. I look at an Operating System and make my evaluation based on utility and reliability.
Ignore all of the drama over transparancy, obsure font changes, et al
"Orangutangs are skeptical of changes in their cages."
A lot of folks out there have little tolerance for change. I look at an Operating System and make my evaluation based on utility and reliability.
Ignore all of the drama over transparancy, obsure font changes, et al
"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."
Visual Aesthetic Appeal Speeds Processing of Complex but not Simple Icons
Transparency adds complexity, but often not pretty.
Visual Aesthetic Appeal Speeds Processing of Complex but not Simple Icons
KISS when you can, but pretty when you can't.
Transparency adds complexity, but often not pretty.
Have you missed the part about how the transparency and system font changes have negatively affected us Orangutangs' ability to see and focus on our work in our cages? Are eyestrain and headaches resulting from focusing difficulties of interest or concern to you when you define the "utility" of a computer's Operating System?
Etan
Lack of contrast affecting texts in EfiLoginUI
Lack of contrast affecting texts in EfiLoginUI
Ignoring the blur in these photographs (simple camera, no flash), lack of contrast is a problem where texts are white on the very pale grey backgrounds.
Click the image to view the album:
I assume that 10.10.2 did not increase the contrast.
Lack of contrast affecting texts in EfiLoginUI
Ignoring the blur in these photographs (simple camera, no flash), lack of contrast is a problem where texts are white on the very pale grey backgrounds.
Click the image to view the album:
I assume that 10.10.2 did not increase the contrast.
No, the update did not fix the blurry font or low contrast issues!
Apple did fix some of the UI like the volume graphic and that darkened out drop down in the help menu, but not the thin, light, blurred out font.
The iTunes 12.1 update was some notification widget that I couldn't care less about. Here is an example.....my App Store and iTunes "About".....hardly legible on my mid-2012 MBP.
Seriously, a complete opposite to what my display was like in Mavericks. Why can't Apple just give us options to choose a bolder system wide font and to be able to increase the shading of that awful light grey menu bar, preferably options that don't negatively affect other parts of the UI? I suppose I'm asking too much.
Apple did fix some of the UI like the volume graphic and that darkened out drop down in the help menu, but not the thin, light, blurred out font.
The iTunes 12.1 update was some notification widget that I couldn't care less about. Here is an example.....my App Store and iTunes "About".....hardly legible on my mid-2012 MBP.
Seriously, a complete opposite to what my display was like in Mavericks. Why can't Apple just give us options to choose a bolder system wide font and to be able to increase the shading of that awful light grey menu bar, preferably options that don't negatively affect other parts of the UI? I suppose I'm asking too much.
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That's precisely because I make my evaluation based on utility and reliability that I went back to Mavericks.
I have come to like Yosemite's look (except for the brightness - I work in a dark environment), but a lot of things just take to much time before they appear on screen, and that's very annoying (Finder list view to name one, bouncing icons in the dock when you open an application, s...a.....f...a....r..i "speed"). At first you might not notice because you just installed it, it looks somewhat cool and "modern" and we tend to persuade ourselves that the latest version of an OS is always faster...or should I say snappier
Yosemite is very demanding thanks to its fancy UI, transparency, opaque windows etc. It taxes your cpu/gpu for no other reason than "looking cool". Well, Mavericks looks cool enough thank you. A computer is not a tablet or a smartphone, and the merging of these two philosophies, mobile and desktop, started with Mountain Lion iirc. Even today, I think that was a big mistake but we just have to accept it.Also, I admit I probably wouldn't have made the downgrade if I didn't had to completly erase my HD and do a clean install. But now that I did and that I had an opportunity to compare the two, Yosemite will have to do more than fix a graphics glitch before I make it my main OS again.
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That's precisely because I make my evaluation based on utility and reliability that I went back to Mavericks.
I have come to like Yosemite's look (except for the brightness - I work in a dark environment), but a lot of things just take to much time before they appear on screen, and that's very annoying (Finder list view to name one, bouncing icons in the dock when you open an application, s...a.....f...a....r..i "speed"). At first you might not notice because you just installed it, it looks somewhat cool and "modern" and we tend to persuade ourselves that the latest version of an OS is always faster...or should I say snappier
Also, I admit I probably wouldn't have made the downgrade if I didn't had to completly erase my HD and do a clean install. But now that I did and that I had an opportunity to compare the two, Yosemite will have to do more than fix a graphics glitch before I make it my main OS again.
My sentiments exactly. I have multiple instances running, Yosemite is dual booting in all cases, so I can get a very accurate comparison. I'll run on Yosemite for a day or two and think, its fine, no problem here, until for some reason I need to reboot to Mavericks.
Its really amazing how clear and bright Mavericks looks. Its like a breath of fresh air.
Reality is if you stay on Macintosh you'll be forced to update at some point. The applications are all getting the new look too. I have the new versions running on 10.10 and old on Mavericks. I am finding it very difficult to update applications for the same reason, they are just hard to read. The kicker is I got message from Intuit for example, Apr '15 no more online transaction updates, that really puts the last nail in the coffin for holding out there.
Same deal with Aperture, no more Camera Raw Updates, everyone is leveraging you off Mavericks.
One interesting observation, notice iTunes updates on Mavericks quickly no problem, Apple won't even think about offending the high value iPhone/iPad customers.
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I don't use Aperture but it has been discontinued right?
I think there's still time before the minimum requirements for major apps is set to 10.10 or later though.
Aperture is a strange deal, they announced end of life 6 months ago, but they still sell it (it actually just fell out of the top grossing list). In fact till a couple weeks ago the screens of the new MacBook Pros at the Apple store handsomely displayed it. So its like the walking... well half dead.
*Correction; Aperture is still proudly displayed at http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/
Regardless, people aren't stopping you from installing on Mavericks, they are just killing the feeds. No Camera Raw, no new cameras. No bank and stock updates renders your financial application useless.
Its all very insidious.
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I upgraded one of our systems from 10.10.1 to 10.10.2 last night. Is it my imagination, or did they make the translucency in the pull down menus more aggressive? I clicked on the Apple icon and the menu went over a Terminal.app window that was black. I can see how people are complaining about visibility problems with this. It was just stupid looking.
I'm a musician working mostly in film music, so using Pro Tools and audio apps in not a hobby for me, I need them to work, to be stable and reliable as I make my living with them. t
If Apples new OS Yosemite changes are making it hard for you to do your recordings, maybe it's time to consider a move to the Windows platform. Pro Tools is a top of the line product and should not be lacking in performance because of OS bugs.
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"top of the line product" - cute.
I never talked about "recordings" and there's no chance in hell I'll move to windows. I've been using Pro Tools for more than 15 years I know what kind of product it is but thanks for your input. It's not Pro Tools that's lacking in performance, it's the OS, and that can affect your work and/or workflow. And if the OS behavior affects other apps then there's a problem. Pro Tools isn't without problems, but so far going back to Mavericks was a good choice. I can be a little more specific and say that tracking video and importing quicktime files in PT or Digital Performer ended up impossible in Yosemite, and for no apparent reason, as it worked fine for about 3 months. Both DP and PT rely on Quicktime when it comes to video. These problems are now gone in Mavericks and I'm more than hesitant to upgrade to 10.10 again. Anyway... DAWs are tricky because problems are often user-specific, with unique studio setups (hardware or software), so I'm sure some others are perfectly happy with 10.10 and their DAW, so more power to them, and some others are still running on 10.6 for numerous reasons. In my case, I'm happy with 10.9 for now.
It's the fact that I had to clean install the OS that made me go back to 10.9. I have nothing against Yosemite except that its performance isn't satisfying enough compared to mavericks (not just talking about audio apps). And some UI changes are questionable. Read my posts again if that's not clear.
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I've gotten the impression over the last few days that some of the recent comments have been made by folks who have not first read the thread from the beginning. I'll leave it at that.
Respectfully, Etan
With respect to "Yosemite looks Terrible". I have a bug on 10.10.2 (14C109) where when the graphics switch to High Perf. or the NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M 512 MB the color map changes to way overly cool, the grey window borders have a blue tint, its so strong its just awful. Of course my pictures look horrible.
On Mavericks there is no color change whatsoever when switching, on Yosemite sometimes I get the extreme color change sometimes I don't. I'm sure its a bug, but have not heard of other reports.
Not exactly a design flaw, I hope, but if it is it looks terrible!
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