This is not true. I am sure that there are some people that like to think that way about themselves though. Usually, open source projects are started either to get more people to contribute to your ideas or because it does not make much sense to keep the software closed-source. I open source my software simply because I can't sell it most of stuff I do is part of my work in academia. Nobody is going to pay for it, no matter how great it is. My revenues from it are indirect, because I get invited to various universities to teach classes on how to use my tools.
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Yosemite looks terrible!
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This is not true. I am sure that there are some people that like to think that way about themselves though. Usually, open source projects are started either to get more people to contribute to your ideas or because it does not make much sense to keep the software closed-source. I open source my software simply because I can't sell it most of stuff I do is part of my work in academia. Nobody is going to pay for it, no matter how great it is. My revenues from it are indirect, because I get invited to various universities to teach classes on how to use my tools.
I, on the other hand, use LaunchPad extensively on my Air. Lower left hot corner: swipe down, swipe up, touch. I do use Spotlight at times. It depends on where my hands are at the moment and the application I want to launch. BTW, I take a very minimalist approach to the Dock: Finder, Downloads and Trash. To each their own methods. Its great.
DS
The great value of guidelines that maximise understanding at a glance
With apologies for some repetition: now, at last, I think I can explain a key point in a way that will be understandable to a broader range of readers.
For now, please let's ignore the screenshot that presented a cascade. That cascade was too exaggerated.
Instead: take a broader, non-cropped view of my earlier (14A283o) example. With either blur or redaction, take your pick:
A natural cascade, only three deep.
Six windows, two of which (bottom right) were irrelevant at the moment of the problem. Particular attention to the window in front, and the one immediately behind.
Towards a deeper understanding of the type of problem that Yosemite introduces to the user experience (UX), I suggest ignoring the two windows that were irrelevant. You could treat that entire desktop as having an essence of four windows, or take the extreme view that there were six. No-one will convince me that I had created clutter.
Neither was there any mess created by me. Between fifteen and eighteen icons on the spacious desktop, automatically arranged strictly orderly. Order is extremely important to me. Most things are strictly alphabetical but my desktop icons, at any Mac, are always strictly chronological. No-one will convince me that things were messed up by me.
No. And this may be the key point that drove me, more than any other point, to reject Apple's experiments.
First impressions given by the operating system were essentially wrong. The first split-second of scanning what was on screen. Where there were truly four windows, the OS appeared to present the wrong number:
Whenever Yosemite is likely to misrepresent the number of units of organisation (the number of windows), at such a basic level, I suspect that amongst other things the OS causes the human eye to perform scanning movements/patterns that both:
The difficulty may be so subtle, and the moments so brief, that the end user is not consciously aware (at each moment) of the difficulty. But the cumulative effect of such moments is repellent to me.
----
From Mavericks, and from earlier releases of Apple operating systems, I am accustomed to using the best tools:
Not a glance followed by a command that results from movement of the hand or hands. Not a glance followed by a command that results from recognition of speech. A glance, pure and simple. Tremendously effective.
Decades of outstandingly good designs by Apple allowed me to interpret, to understand what is important to me at a glance. Sometimes within a split-second. With extremely high confidence that the human interface of the OS will successfully convey what is required in almost all situations.
The flaws in Yosemite's human interface are destructive to that confidence.
I found repeatedly that Yosemite is far less likely, than Mavericks, to successfully convey what is required when required.
With apologies for some repetition: now, at last, I think I can explain a key point in a way that will be understandable to a broader range of readers.
For now, please let's ignore the screenshot that presented a cascade. That cascade was too exaggerated.
Instead: take a broader, non-cropped view of my earlier (14A283o) example. With either blur or redaction, take your pick:
A natural cascade, only three deep.
Six windows, two of which (bottom right) were irrelevant at the moment of the problem. Particular attention to the window in front, and the one immediately behind.
Towards a deeper understanding of the type of problem that Yosemite introduces to the user experience (UX), I suggest ignoring the two windows that were irrelevant. You could treat that entire desktop as having an essence of four windows, or take the extreme view that there were six. No-one will convince me that I had created clutter.
Neither was there any mess created by me. Between fifteen and eighteen icons on the spacious desktop, automatically arranged strictly orderly. Order is extremely important to me. Most things are strictly alphabetical but my desktop icons, at any Mac, are always strictly chronological. No-one will convince me that things were messed up by me.
No. And this may be the key point that drove me, more than any other point, to reject Apple's experiments.
First impressions given by the operating system were essentially wrong. The first split-second of scanning what was on screen. Where there were truly four windows, the OS appeared to present the wrong number:
Whenever Yosemite is likely to misrepresent the number of units of organisation (the number of windows), at such a basic level, I suspect that amongst other things the OS causes the human eye to perform scanning movements/patterns that both:
- confuse the context; and
- make it difficult gain focus on the required content.
The difficulty may be so subtle, and the moments so brief, that the end user is not consciously aware (at each moment) of the difficulty. But the cumulative effect of such moments is repellent to me.
----
From Mavericks, and from earlier releases of Apple operating systems, I am accustomed to using the best tools:
- my eyes
- my brain's perception of what is seen at any particular moment
Not a glance followed by a command that results from movement of the hand or hands. Not a glance followed by a command that results from recognition of speech. A glance, pure and simple. Tremendously effective.
Decades of outstandingly good designs by Apple allowed me to interpret, to understand what is important to me at a glance. Sometimes within a split-second. With extremely high confidence that the human interface of the OS will successfully convey what is required in almost all situations.
The flaws in Yosemite's human interface are destructive to that confidence.
I found repeatedly that Yosemite is far less likely, than Mavericks, to successfully convey what is required when required.
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Never said you were.
It was my perception of people's reaction in general.
Indeed.
That's why I started my post with "features aside".
Thank you for your readiness.
Always good to have someone to unveil what's behind the magic.
It was an upgrade. I'm planning on doing a clean install soon but i don't believe it will fix the performance issues.
Safari is sluggish. Scrolling is not as smooth as Mavericks, opening a new tab takes almost a second after a click.
That's not starting an open source project though. I urge you to find an OSP that doesn't mention "making a better ________ through the power of OSS" or something along those lines.
I actually agree with you regarding the scanning for opened windows. I was on Yosemite DP2 and it was such a pain to look for opened apps at a glance. I had to move windows so that they overlap each other, with status bars at different height level, sticking out just enough so i know that they're there. It's a massive waste of space and make any interface clunky to look at.
I do hope all you people are sending Apple your feedback. Although it may be nice to get on here and "vent" so to speak it doesn't necessarily do any good. I'm sure some people from Apple frequent this site at least once in a while but there's no guarantee they'll even see this thread.
Once again, if you don't have developer previews or beta versions but remain unimpressed with what you've seen, complaints can be filed at the following:
FYI, if you want to complain about the GUI you can visit the following site and provide feedback about Yosemite:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html
If you would prefer to write a complaint, here's the address for that too:
Apple, Inc.
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014
Those with the beta version of developers preview can and should use the feedback assistant to complain.
My own personal guess is that they heard so much negative stuff after the iOS 7 release that they opened OS X up for public beta to avoid the negative feedback. It would be a smart thing to do, especially when literally fooling with what was one of the most respected OSes in the world.
Once again, if you don't have developer previews or beta versions but remain unimpressed with what you've seen, complaints can be filed at the following:
FYI, if you want to complain about the GUI you can visit the following site and provide feedback about Yosemite:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html
If you would prefer to write a complaint, here's the address for that too:
Apple, Inc.
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014
Those with the beta version of developers preview can and should use the feedback assistant to complain.
My own personal guess is that they heard so much negative stuff after the iOS 7 release that they opened OS X up for public beta to avoid the negative feedback. It would be a smart thing to do, especially when literally fooling with what was one of the most respected OSes in the world.
Well observed! I love what they're doing with translucency and animation, although we'd already seen some implementation of the latter in Mavericks.
Still, I prefer Mavericks' icons.
I just fail to understand the reason for deprecating something good, instead of having the best of both approches.
Flat, remindes me of Windows and a flat tyre.
I've been testing the public beta since its release and I understand you mean.
It's slick and very comfortable to operate, but the static takes probably most of the usage (mine, at least) and is very agressive, too rough and sharp for my taste.
Far from my intentions to question the functionality and the features, as I stated.
Airdrop will be available with having a Finder window opened - a must have feature since day 0, in Lion - it was obvious and logical, for me.
I love Dark Mode. I don't know if they'll extend, for instance, to a page of text, allowing us to invert the color and have white letters on a black or gray page, like in Xcode.
My eyes would really appreciate it.
I might get used to them, but that's very different from enjoying.
They make want to vomit!
And how, pray tell, do I select "Yosemite" as the operating system I'm commenting on when 10.9.4 is the highest one to select? The thing is I AM running 10.9.4. I don't want to put a beta version of OS X on my server. But feedback is not set up for GUI feedback for beta operating systems and yet NOW is the time to tell them before they lock everything in stone and nothing can be changed. It's really up to the beta testers here to provide feedback since that is who they are asking for feedback from.
In any case, I submitted feedback anyway and told them I'd rather see poor GUI choices made optional through THEMING instead and that I think they should have concentrated on functional changes like improvements to Finder similar to "XtraFinder" and the latest OpenGL standards instead of trying SO HARD to make OS X look like iOS7.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
Nicely put.
Thanks for the book recomendation. Seems very interesting.
Let's hope they-
(will be willing to) take you under consideration.May I give that kind of feedback, even not being a developer? If so, I will drop them a line or two.
Very insightful post.
Thanks for sharing your points of view.
I seem to remember the general consensus of the redesign that was iOS 7 was quite positive. Sure, it was a big change, but well-received. A couple threads in MacRumors with some vocal posters pales in comparison to not only the positive reviews on the big tech sites and general public consensus, but all the MR members happy with the design who didn't bother posting. After all, people are more likely to post if they have a complaint or problem. I think the beta is more for bug-squashing.
How will progress ever occur if things always stay the same?
I'm liking the UI a lot more then I originally did but I think this example shows the what doesn't work imo. I think the lack of contrast works against the design. The older version is better imo because its easier on the eyes and easier to read imo
When developer preview 4 was seeded, I had much the same assumption.
Yes and no.
The DP 5 introduction of a preference to show addresses in Safari was fairly predictable.
The harsher regressions those that affect the system as a whole appear to be presented, by Apple, as core features (with no hint of a way to avoid troubles that that may arise from enforcement of those features). Those things were presented with pride by Apple and so for Apple to relax, or somehow backtrack, could seriously hurt the pride of some people there.
A snippet from my unenrolment e-mail to Apple, 24th July:
"
I hoped that with Yosemite, Developer Preview 4 would allow users to enjoy some basics such as titles and addresses. Sadly not. I feel that Apple is bulldozing these changes without an appreciation of all possible long term consequences. Also, without blaming any presenter at WWDC, I believe that it was wrong to announce, in that context, some of the most contentious changes.
"
(When writing that e-mail, I had not yet realised that the true nature of Safari 8 was partially misrepresented at WWDC. Had I realised, I would have voiced my concerns.)
The diversity of venting the discussion helped me to get closer to the cores of the more nebulous problems. That deepened understanding is a good thing. And hand-on-heart, that understanding would not have come if I had continued testing in the established way. The leap away from establishment proved to be a really good breathing space. A very personal thing.
Please note, I do not encourage other testers to step away. The more feedback to Apple with confidentiality the better.
I enjoy a refurbished and almost perfect first generation iPhone (iOS 3.1.3) so I can't make significant comments on the transition from 6 to 7, but from what I saw of both operating systems (on other people's devices): both 6 and 7 were usable and fit for purpose.
Let's not lose sight of the essential nature of OS X: it is for Mac hardware.
If refinements to OS X lead to greater ease of use of other operating systems: that's fine. But the usability of OS X should not be reduced.
What do you think
Just some of my views on that type of thing: overall, the Yosemite appearance is less legible and less informative. It's novel, colourful and experimental, but it's ultimately a wash-out.
Thanks, I'll look later. I might reply under Post all of your OS X Yosemite screenshots here! but I should discourage publication of screenshots so if I don't comment, please don't be offended.
Apple's changes before Yosemite were nearly always progressive. I welcomed all of that progress.
Some of the appearance of Yosemite is, for some customers, regressive. I can not welcome changes of that nature.
Refinements. Additions, complements. Broadening of support. Standards-oriented work. More choices for end users. Improvements to the blend of simplicity plus power. And so on.
All of those things involve change; not one can be classed as always staying the same.
Constancy
With emphasis added by me:
The quality of being faithful and dependable;
expect reasonable degrees of change in direction, and lulls in speed, but the general direction can be relied upon. - the quality of being enduring and unchanging: the trade winds are noted for constancy in speed and direction.
So, for example, faith in the general direction of a trade wind allows the traveller to progress without fear of persons or possessions being stranded or going overboard.
To me, the changes to Yosemite are indicative of Apple losing some direction with its much-loved operating system for much-loved Mac hardware. I'd like to expand upon that, but not in this topic it could be a long and difficult discussion, one that will touch some nerves.
That perception remains true, for its time, but I'm less inclined to believe that Apple knowingly took a like it or lump it attitude.
It has taken weeks for me to begin describing a problem in a way is more understandable. A majority of people will continue to disagree with my perceptions disagreement is natural but I feel that there's less of a brick wall.
So, it's possible that Apple did not foresee people having such difficulties with the first five pre-releases. Maybe reactions such as mine did not surface or were inexplicable during internal testing by Apple.
The Pixelmator look is based off of Apples HUD Windows which are in Xcode. Dark mode is not even done yet.
Agreed. Progress means improvement. The shear number of posts and views of this thread tell me people generally don't like Yosemite, and likewise with iOS7.
As long as there are Fanboy magazines/publications like MacWorld, who dare not say anything bad about the company they, as pilot fish, have attached themselves to to make a living off of, and as long as Apple is dictating to users that what they are producing is wonderful, you really can't get a feel for how well stuff is received.
iOS 7 is a perfect example. A users survey in CNET which was simply users rating the product gave iOS 7 a 1.5 out of 5 stars. The media, on the other hand (including CNET) rated it between 4 and 5. They dare not say anything bad about an advertising sugar-daddy. Like someone else posted, iPad sales are falling since iOS 7's release. Unlike iPhones, that are tied to contracts, iPad's usually aren't.
I considered getting an iPad when iOS6 was around. I didn't need it. I just toyed with the idea. When iOS7 came out with it's stupid translucency, simple minded icons, and glaring white everywhere the "consider an iPad" option changed to "want nothing to do with an iPad." I will never own an iPad and the next time I look at smartphones Apple will be given no other priority other than that of another manufacturer to consider...when it used to be the only brand to consider.
If the objective of their new design is to irritate a considerable number of customers, I guess I should salute them with a "job well done." They can hide behind fast talking marketing types and self published statistics indicating overall success, but they won't be able to hide from a loss of customers.
Always hate being late to the gang bang, but...
I'm an old Mac user. My first Macs were beige with Black and White screens. I was using MacOS professionally when the OS9/OSX transition happened. I was a believer big time in where they were going with it, and the dock and the developments of things like Exposé were brilliant GUI innovations, I thought.
I'm running Yosemite beta, and I'm not convinced. To me, the colors look wrong, and the icons don't look right. The "flat" look doesn't make it easier for me to see where to go.
I'm running iOS7 too, and saw some upsides to it. I didn't think there was much "broken" with iOS6, though. A year on, I can still take or leave iOS7. It never "grew" on me. It looks like something that will seem so obviously dated in a few years. Like what flared polyester pants in the early 70s, if people had the presence of mind to think about it for a second.
I didn't care much for the color palette of "Easter Candy." Sadly, it looks worse, in my opinion, on my 27" iMac screen.
Hey, I'm glad that others find that they "love" this. To each their own. I support a bunch of Windows machines, too. And I have learned to work with Windows 8 through gritted teeth. I'm not a fan that Windows out of the box is almost unusable until you install Revo, Classic Start Shell, and a Better Desktop Tool. But with them installed, Windows 8.1 is a usable OS. But I have to say, Yosemite isn't making me feel enthusiastic about signing on to MacOS being "better" than Windows as a choice for OS.
I only wish that Linux were as usable as Windows and MacOS for a lot of routine use. Because I can really appreciate now how much choice there is for Linux desktop distros.
I'm an old Mac user. My first Macs were beige with Black and White screens. I was using MacOS professionally when the OS9/OSX transition happened. I was a believer big time in where they were going with it, and the dock and the developments of things like Exposé were brilliant GUI innovations, I thought.
I'm running Yosemite beta, and I'm not convinced. To me, the colors look wrong, and the icons don't look right. The "flat" look doesn't make it easier for me to see where to go.
I'm running iOS7 too, and saw some upsides to it. I didn't think there was much "broken" with iOS6, though. A year on, I can still take or leave iOS7. It never "grew" on me. It looks like something that will seem so obviously dated in a few years. Like what flared polyester pants in the early 70s, if people had the presence of mind to think about it for a second.
I didn't care much for the color palette of "Easter Candy." Sadly, it looks worse, in my opinion, on my 27" iMac screen.
Hey, I'm glad that others find that they "love" this. To each their own. I support a bunch of Windows machines, too. And I have learned to work with Windows 8 through gritted teeth. I'm not a fan that Windows out of the box is almost unusable until you install Revo, Classic Start Shell, and a Better Desktop Tool. But with them installed, Windows 8.1 is a usable OS. But I have to say, Yosemite isn't making me feel enthusiastic about signing on to MacOS being "better" than Windows as a choice for OS.
I only wish that Linux were as usable as Windows and MacOS for a lot of routine use. Because I can really appreciate now how much choice there is for Linux desktop distros.
Get info redesign, from terrible Yosemite, to beautiful Yosemite
What do you think
I think they took out 3x the functionality/information from Yosemite and further dumbed down OS X. Visually, I don't like the new traffic light buttons at all. Otherwise, I see little difference worth getting excited about from just that snapshot other than the fact that Yosemite there looks like it came off some kid's iPod Touch rather than a professional level computer.
I think they took out 3x the functionality/information from Yosemite and further dumbed down OS X. Visually, I don't like the new traffic light buttons at all. Otherwise, I see little difference worth getting excited about from just that snapshot other than the fact that Yosemite there looks like it came off some kid's iPod Touch rather than a professional level computer.
I'm still grappling with the idea that you can remove functionality with a visual update. I classify myself as what most people would call a power user, and I love Yosemite. All of the new features are positively priceless, (literally, the update is free
) and I like the unified design elements. I'm using it as my daily driver right now, about to make a full switch. My 64GB Cruzer Extreme arrives Monday.Could you give me a simplified rundown of the issues you're having with it?
Removing like half the information from "Get Info" reports defeats functionality. I don't think that's very hard to understand.
Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if they make the Shell inaccessible at some point (since it "confuses" some people) like they did by hiding the /Library folders (which you need to access to adjust some programs parameters and log files ,etc.). Let's face it, Apple has been kiddifying OS X for some time now. They just assume their average user is a non-computer person and try to design some fashion parade that control with a two-button remote (like Apple TV and let me say that two-buttons plus a ring is woefully inadequate sometimes there).
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my issue is with folks that can't get the simple truth that it is their opinion and not some factual statement. And it might not be a shared opinion.
I happen to like Yosemite, and iOS 8 and I liked iOS 7. That I liked them doesn't make me stupid, a fanboi etc. It just means that my opinion is not yours. That you can't see that is your issue not mine. Get over your issue or do me a favor and put me on your ignore list.
Just like my needs for something like an iPad are not yours. Sorry if YOU can't create on an iPad but I can. Sorry that you feel that the iPad is a toy, I disagree. If you don't like it, don't buy one. But don't tell me that I'm wrong, stupid etc.
and yet I see those kinds of attitudes and comments here way way too much
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