Yosemite looks terrible!

[grahamperrin]

OT: Finder and ~/Library in Mavericks

Off-topic from Yosemite:

B) Holding down option doesn't reveal the ~/Library in OS X Mavericks either.

An ideal place to continue this branch of discussion:

OS X Mavericks (10.9) > Finder "Go To" and ~Library – there, again, is an answer that explains use of the Option (Alt) key in Mavericks.

 

[PsykX]

I hope you guys use the Feedback Assistant or Apple's Bug Report website to provide Apple with solutions to make Yosemite look better for the final release.

While it's good to have a discussion here and exchange thoughts and opinions, this forum thread will probably never reach Apple.

 

[RedRaven571]

 

[leman]

Apple couldn't even be bothered to mention the change, which comes across as a smug "they don't use it anyway so we don't need to say anything" type of move to me. Apple is very bad about documenting changes and bug fixes ,etc., but it's my fault because I'm apparently expected to guess everything they change.

Did you even look?

http://support.apple.com/kb/PH11395

Not to mention hundreds of sites/blogs whatever describing how to access Library on OS X 10.7+. I am also quite sure that this change was mentioned in the release notes somewhere (if one cares to read through several hundreds lines of changes).

A final remark on this: there is nothing wrong about providing a default setup of the system which is aimed at the average user. For virtually all use cases, hiding Library is a good move, because it makes the system more protected agains the careless user. The trick is how easy it is to deviate from that default, if you are not an average user. Apple makes it exceedingly easy, they even put it in the menu for you! And if you need to have access to it on a more regular basis, just add it to your Favourites sidebar, that what that panel is for. Or remove the hidden flag, if you want need to see it in your Finder (you are a shell guru after all). Or use the view options. And frankly, I don't see any principal difference between clicking a check box in a menu or typing 'chflags nohidden ~/Library/'. After all, the GUI is just a convenience wrapper around the command line. And Apple is nice enough to give you that wrapper (if they would't care about power users as you claim, they wouldn't have bothered).

Bottomline: you are arguing agains the default as if someone forces to to stick to it, but you don't even try to research how to change it (which turns out to be quite trivial). This is exactly why I find it difficult to take your criticism seriously — because, if you allow me a very silly analogy — that is akin complaining that you don't like the default desktop picture.

Of course, this does not make your other criticisms (about Apple's non-transparent bug fixing policies) less valid.

(P.S. before grahamperrin lunges on my above paragraph , yes, Apple does not provide any option to show title bars. That is a conscious design move of them. Again, whether its a good one or bad one, can be argued).

But instead of just taking comments for what they're worth (or not worth as the case may be), I get attacked with cussing armies of fanboys that can't fathom why I don't just love Tim Cook and Johnny Ives to death for all their stupid changes to OS X. Oh joy.

I see what you try to do here, but this is not working. Please don't try to turn things around. Let's review the events, may I? Note: stuff in quotation marks are direct quotes from your posts.

1. You complain about the hidden library folder and conclude that 'Apple has been kiddifying OS X for some time now', and 'I wouldn't be shocked if they make the Shell inaccessible'.

2. I point out that a) the ~/Library is still very well accessible from the Finder menu (see above in my post), b) every major operating system employs some protection of system-critical folders, and c) quite in contrary to your statement, Apple is continuing to add power-user features (show me another mainstream OS which can be fully scripted with JavaScript!)

3. You respond by calling me a 'fanboy', a 'fanatical type' and claim that I 'defend Apple doing just about anything'. A very mature way of having a conversation. When did you see me calling you an 'uneducated, ignorant slob' because you don't know that Finder has a 'Go' menu or what the option button does in OS X or that you apparently didn't even bother to look at the Finder settings since 2011, when the change was made?

To sum it up: I don't see how arguing agains your (again, IMO unfounded) criticism makes me a 'fanboy', 'fanatical type' or whatever. Maybe you should pay more attention to what and why your opponents write, instead of conveniently accusing them of being narrow-minded.

----------

I'd like to see a statistical breakdown on these threads (number of users participating, post frequency, user attitudes). My intuition is that the majority of the criticising posts in this thread comes from a small number of very active contributors

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Did you even look?

Did I look? I'm supposed to scour the Internet for a change? I found a news site article link on here easier. The POINT is that these updates should have detailed release notes with them like almost every developer on Earth (other than Apple) includes with updates. They list a few basic ones and the rest are for you to discover when you least want to (like in the middle of doing something in a hurry and suddenly you can't find your damn directory). You can defend Apple all day long for hiding that directory. Who are you trying to convince? If someone doesn't like what they've done, they don't like it. You can't defend LESS functionality as an "improvement" unless you are taking the "OS X should only be for simpletons" point of view.

The bottom line is I don't like changes where they make the Mac less functional (e.g. removing title bars), less efficient (having to unhide something that was never hidden before). You don't have to agree. But you don't have to flip out either with near rabid voracity. It took Apple two full major OS versions to provide a simple preference option and probably thousands of feedbacks complaining about it. And THAT is the purpose of discussing these things here. ONE feedback doesn't mean anything to Apple. But many thousands of people complaining about their antenna sucking on their iPhone gets some results. If thousands told Apple their lack of menu bars was horrible, they'd probably at least provide an option to bring them back. They defended their 3D dock look for years, but now it's gone and looks similar to the old one? Hmmm....

Back to Finder. The "option" key works nowhere but the "Go" menu so that means using the menu bar in the Finder which is already less functional than it could be (XtraFinder shows what Finder could be if Apple would spend their time working on IMPROVING OS X features instead of wasting in on the "child friendly" graphics look. Moving files around is a PITA in OS X "vanilla" because you need to two separate Finder windows to do it unless you have either shortcuts on the sidebar to exactly where you want to go or you enjoy holding files over a parent folder and then playing the dexterity game of holding it over each adjoining and subsequent folder until you arrive at the location you want to drag them to. In Windows, you can just "cut" and then "paste" the files to move (not copy) them so you really don't need two windows or a dual-pane.

Apple could either add a cut(move) + paste option (and thus copy Windows) or they could add a nice Directory Opus/Diskmaster dual-pane window like Xtrafinder has and you can then easily set up source/destination and just drag and drop without trying to hold the files over multiple directories. Now the fanatical argument is "why are you moving files? leave them all in the one directory or wherever they came from and never touch the finder for anything!" Yeah, I organize media and have a lot of it transferred from mediums and want them in their own directories and record them from multiple Macs, etc, which then need transferred over the network, etc. Apple adds "Airdrop" to make it simpler to move something to another Mac, but they don't make it easier to move things around in Finder without multiple windows needing to be open? No, their solution is "tabs" instead. That's the equivalent of adding a shortcut to the sidebar. You still can't view both locations at once. It helps, but nothing beats the old FTP/DirOpus/Diskmaster style dual-pane.

I've suggested it to Apple several time, but apparently having a green battery bar is more important than actually improving OS X functionality. Hiding things to make it more onerous to find them when they weren't missing in the first place is an "improvement". Let's face it. Yours and Apple's ideas of improving OS X are far from mine.

 

[Daenerys]

I have to agree that Yosemite looks so completely terrible that I'm seriously considering skipping it all-together. I hate the flat look and the dock is atrocious. I know cDock exists but it's still a poor substitute for the 3D dock. I realise I'm probably a minority as everyone else just loves it, but I can't help it.

It actually worries me for the future and whether or not it's time for me to get off of the OS X train when it's time to replace this Mac. At any rate, I'm glad other people seem to love the direction the aesthetics are going even if I don't.

 

[ncrypt]

Apple could either add a cut(move) + paste option

option(alt)+cmd+v moves the file when you paste. Just saying.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I have to agree that Yosemite looks so completely terrible that I'm seriously considering skipping it all-together. I hate the flat look and the dock is atrocious. I know cDock exists but it's still a poor substitute for the 3D dock. I realise I'm probably a minority as everyone else just loves it, but I can't help it.

It actually worries me for the future and whether or not it's time for me to get off of the OS X train when it's time to replace this Mac. At any rate, I'm glad other people seem to love the direction the aesthetics are going even if I don't.

I skipped Lion altogether. Between removing massive functionality (Rosetta) and plenty of bug reports, I saw no reason to upgrade. A lot of others didn't either. Many are still using Snow Leopard to this day (I eventually found emulation wrappers for some games and got a newer version of Office, etc.) and went ahead and installed Mountain Lion on the MBP (my Mini came with it).

To be perfectly honest, I would have skipped Mavericks also given some of the reports (Mountain Lion's final version was virtually bug-free here and fast) if it weren't for the big improvements in dual-monitor support (which could still use a separate dock for each monitor or at least enable migrating of the side-dock as I don't use the bottom dock since it takes up valuable vertical real estate on a monitor that is wider than it is tall). The point is perhaps skipping a version will give them time to address some of the concerns of the voices less spoken (i.e. the only people giving them feedback right now are the beta-testers. Other than following threads like this or watching Apple conferences, the common user has probably not even seen Yosemite yet to have an opinion one way or another).

option(alt)+cmd+v moves the file when you paste. Just saying.

I did not know that (actually I only need to press option by itself from the right-click menu and "paste" turns into "move"). I'm sure several would love to shout "idiot" at me or something, but I've been using OS X for 8 years and it does show I don't just sit around pressing the option key all around the OS to see what it might do next. For one thing, I don't use an Apple keyboard on my desk (don't like them) so the "Alt" key is really option here and so I probably don't literally think about "option" the same way. But even so, we're back to pressing keyboard buttons for something that could/should be mouse (or trackpad) only operations. I've always thought of OS X as more efficient (less keyboard commands, etc. needed) to accomplish things than Windows.

Apparently, Apple prefers "less clutter to "less work". There's also the "familiarity" principle. Even if something is easier to do another way, people will continue doing it the older/harder way because they're used to doing it that way. It's familiar and therefore comfortable to them. So Windows users would likely complain about moving files being more complex (adding a keystroke to Windows mouse only operation) whereas long time OS X users would argue that they just press the option key and there's one less clutter item in their context menu.

There's also the fact that many Mac users started from older Macs and never really used Windows or other and/or older operating systems (Linux, Amiga, AtariST, etc.) at all and are used to having a mouse that hides the second button and therefore diminishes it. In other words, some people might be less inclined to use the right-click context menu because the button is inconvenient to operate (whether in a strange place on the mouse or requiring a two finger gesture to operate on a trackpad) and developed a pattern of pressing the keyboard button to get to that menu or work around using context menus when they don't have to use them. Apple has reinforced this by making trackpads that don't have two buttons. This makes it more complex (hold two fingers on pad then press) to get to the context menu and therefore one is less likely to use it the way they would with a simple left or right mouse click.

My mother is a good example. She could never get used to Windows at all and so never really developed mousing skills. Even though I set her up with a mouse option on her Macbook Pro, she prefers the track pad since she doesn't have to move her hand to the side. But when I explain via Skype how to do something she doesn't know how to do, a "right click" means nothing to her since she's not using the provided 3-button mouse and trying to explain "gestures" to a woman in her mid-60s that has never been good with any form of technology (don't get me started on setting a clock on a VCR or car stereo or anything else that requires a little experimentation to find the right combo) is like trying to teach a dog to use a litter box. It's possible, but you'll spend many hours of frustration trying to get there. Ultimately, familiarity means you'll use the method your comfortable with, not always the more simple one.

I had a 3-button mouse on my Amiga and I had one on my PC and then a 5-button one. I have Microsoft 5-button optical mice on all my computers now including my Macs (save the netbook Hackintosh where I have another brand small mouse for travel). I don't like Apples mice (or their keyboards either really) and I don't like using trackpads over mice. A 3 or 5-button mouse lets me use Firefox the same way on a Mac as on a PC and most games operate the same then as well, etc. Fortunately, OS X has been very 3-button friendly (i.e. I don't have to do anything in OSX with some setting feature or 3rd party preference program) to make the 3rd button work the same in Firefox as on a PC).

It would be nice if I could assign the 4th or 5th mouse button on my mouse to be the option key, but Microsoft's program doesn't have that option and the keystroke option shows it as a modifier not a key you can press to assign.

 

[leman]

Did I look? I'm supposed to scour the Internet for a change?

I think the change is obvious enough once you install the new OS. But if you need certain functionality then I think its an obvious thing to search for getting it back.

The bottom line is I don't like changes where they make the Mac less functional (e.g. removing title bars), less efficient (having to unhide something that was never hidden before).

I also don't like changes that make my Mac less functional or less efficient. One can argue about your first example (title bars). I don't really think there is much space in arguing about the Library folder because it does not makes your system less efficient — it simply changes a setting to make the OS more stable for normal users (who are the absolute majority). Changing back is very quick. And I do not even think that a preference check box for this is necessary if it can be easily done from Terminal (the hidden flag for files is a very well documented feature).

Apple could either add a cut(move) + paste option (and thus copy Windows)

option+CMD+V

Notice the 'magical' option key again — thats what it does, changing default behaviour of a command I do agree that the semantics (modify paste for cut) is a bit quirky though, I'd prefer option+cmd+c for cutting

or they could add a nice Directory Opus/Diskmaster dual-pane window like Xtrafinder has and you can then easily set up source/destination

Brrr, please don't. I admit though, I don't have any logical arguments against it, I just happen to hate multi-pane file navigations with passion. I prefer having multiple Finder windows, less cluttered, more efficient, more flexible, at least for me. But I understand that some people might prefer other workflows. At any rate, if Finder were multi-pane, it would be a reason for me to look for a different file navigation program.

Now the fanatical argument is "why are you moving files? leave them all in the one directory or wherever they came from and never touch the finder for anything!"

Haha, good one I move files around at a regular basis (we are maintaining some of the largest collections of language research databases in the world, after all). I like how finder does it, but thats me.

Yeah, I organize media and have a lot of it transferred from mediums and want them in their own directories and record them from multiple Macs, etc, which then need transferred over the network, etc.

If you have regular workflows like these, the Automator might help. You can create scripts that watches particular folders and does stuff to incoming files. I used to have an Automator workflow which would automatically sort the files I download. These things are what make OS X so awesome in comparison to basically anything else.

Let's face it. Yours and Apple's ideas of improving OS X are far from mine.

I agree. I am 'lucky' in this regard, because my vision for how UI and OS should work very frequently mirrors what people at Apple think. It is unfortunate of course that you are not happy with their choices. In the most extreme case of course, looking around for a different OS might make sense. But I don't think that any other major OS would make you happy — did you ever try looking for the settings file/database on Linux or Windows? Thats a total mess compared to OS X and its elegantly layed out plists...

 

[leman]

I have to agree that Yosemite looks so completely terrible that I'm seriously considering skipping it all-together. I hate the flat look and the dock is atrocious. I know cDock exists but it's still a poor substitute for the 3D dock. I realise I'm probably a minority as everyone else just loves it, but I can't help it.

It actually worries me for the future and whether or not it's time for me to get off of the OS X train when it's time to replace this Mac. At any rate, I'm glad other people seem to love the direction the aesthetics are going even if I don't.

Looking at developer APIs etc., it really seems that the changes are here to stay... Once developers start building apps for Yosemite, Apple can't really go back, because it will break so many of them... What I am trying to say that this is not merely a change in a visual style, but a declaration of a new UI paradigm.

I understand that this is a major change which is quite polarising. I think its a shame that it will drive some people away from the system. Yosemite brings some amazing changes for the software part, with system-wide scriptability, Swift and new APIs that makes developing apps so much quicker and less error-prone.

 

[hamis92]

My my, our prayers about the battery icon have been answered!

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/19494162/

 

[grahamperrin]

Attitudes and statistics

… I'd like to see a statistical breakdown on these threads (number of users participating, post frequency, user attitudes). My intuition is that the majority of the criticising posts in this thread comes from a small number of very active contributors

First, I should apologise for my original attitude to this:

all people thought the same about iOS 7. You just got to wait using it for the couple of weeks.

I gave it a thumbs-down. Denigrating something or someone in that way is almost always counterproductive. That thumb is now gone. (In retrospect, all I wanted – selfishly at the time – was for people in general to think a little more before contributing. Wrong move by me. Better for people to give their own thoughts in their own ways. Free speech that's respectful should not be stifled.)

Second, user attitudes to software (Yosemite in particular): whatever statistics you might get, I should not attempt to draw any conclusion. We could attempt to analyse just the two topics pictured – the beautiful and the terrible – but then reviewing those two against a third Yosemite topic could completely negate that analysis. For example: I wonder whether most MacRumors posters who choose to share screenshots (of Yosemite) do so without paying attention to the ways that multiple windows and/or multiple apps come together. (Note, that's not a criticism.) I can wonder, but a predominance of desktop backgrounds does not allow me to make any assumption about those users' attitudes to things other than backgrounds. Totally inconclusive; only a well-structured survey would yield anything meaningful.

Third: in the Yosemite screenshots topic, my encouragement to people to send feedback to Apple was based on something like an assumption based on the predominance of shots of desktop backgrounds ;-) And so, you see, we could go around and around in circles, analysing analyses. But let's not

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I think the change is obvious enough once you install the new OS. But if you need certain functionality then I think its an obvious thing to search for getting it back.

I do search, but my thinking is that with OS X having its reputation for "just working" that Apple could provide more detailed update information than just "fixes some bugs" in the upgrade window. A simple "read more" link would suffice. Then if you don't care, just ignore it.

I also don't like changes that make my Mac less functional or less efficient. One can argue about your first example (title bars).

People can, do and have argued about it. I haven't tried it, yet so I can't say for sure how it would affect me long term. I know I HATE how Firefox got rid of the add-on bar at the bottom because that's where I put my "extra" stuff like Forecast Fox, Javascipt disable shortcuts, etc. Plus I like to know at a glance where the bottom of the window is. If there's no border at all, it might be hanging out below the bottom of the screen (or to the sides if there's no border indication). They don't have to make my windows look like wooden frame windows. That's where perhaps Apple went too far in skeuomorphism before with Notes looking like a sticky pad in yellow, etc. But toning it down and going to total flat are two different things entirely.

It's why I think it's time Apple add basic theme control over at least the the major UI buttons and their own prior app looks. Just having an option to show the title bar if you want it would be nice. That let's the users decide if they want it "out of the way" or not. Apple has never been big on choices, but I always assumed that was Steve Jobs Ego at work. They don't have to keep doing that. Windows has always had at least some choices (e.g. WindowsXP let you keep the Classic/95/98 look if you preferred it.) so why should OS X be less flexible? If you look at some of the themes of "Flavours", it makes a pretty good argument for me at why choice is good. I'd love to have OS9 window border "buttons" back (maybe a few new ones to match OSX functionality or reassign purpose, but the "look" of them was pretty nice, IMO). Frankly, I liked the Jaguar/Panther/Tiger AQUA look. I'm not saying Mountain Lion or Mavericks is terrible. It's fine (they didn't go so far as Yosemite to completely alter things), but new looking fine doesn't mean the old looked like crap. I'd prefer to pick and choose. I might want a Jaguar look one week and Mountain Lion the next and if I were high on something, maybe I'd even give Yosemite's look for a spin.

I don't really think there is much space in arguing about the Library folder because it does not makes your system less efficient — it simply changes a setting to make the OS more stable for normal users (who are the absolute majority).

Like I said, extra keystrokes = less efficient IMO. The preference check removes that issue, though. But I had to use a shell setting in Mountain Lion to be rid of the issue. Yeah, that's doable. But I'm talking ideal here. I also give color backgrounds to my various picture theme directories. It's extra work to set up, but it looks nice and makes it easy to see what theme I'm in. The point is that Apple allows me to make that choice. Hooray. Now if they'd let me have the choice to use the old Cover Flow mode for iTunes "Movies" (or even just to resize my icons in that mode so they aren't so darn huge and could scroll faster), I'd be a happier camper. I've had to make due with "list + icons" and they're too tiny and if they were bigger, they'd make the lists less efficient which is why a simple list with cover flow at the to to show the images was so nice. Suggestions/Feedback to Apple ignored.

Changing back is very quick. And I do not even think that a preference check box for this is necessary if it can be easily done from Terminal (the hidden flag for files is a very well documented feature).

I'm sure the people who hate terminal would argue they shouldn't have to use it. I'm doing that for them. I actually like the shell, but in my middle age, I can't always remember every odd command at the drop of a hat anymore, which is inconvenient to have to look up syntax all the time (one of the reasons people haven't taken a total shine to Linux. People/hackers who use the shell all the time, love it of course because it's very fast when it's sufficiently familiar).

Brrr, please don't. I admit though, I don't have any logical arguments against it, I just happen to hate multi-pane file navigations with passion. I prefer

I'm not trying to make you. Xtrafinder provides it as an OPTION and defaults off when you open a finder window. But when you WANT to move files around quickly, it's pretty handy. It even pairs up tabs to connect as dual-pane and you can still create non-dual pane tabs in the same finder window. That's power. Do you like using multiple browser windows instead of tabs? People will argue about that too. I don't argue against other people's preferences. I happen to like tabs in browsers at this point (assuming the tabs are visibly organized well and behave the way I want to (e.g. switch to them automatically with a middle click, etc.) which is why I use TabsMixPlus), but early on I did not. There are still some that don't. Who's making them use tabs? Open in new window is an option in most browsers I've tried. Forcing people to use tabs for "consistency" or some nonsense is a bad idea. Let people decide how they want to do things. Why should Apple or anyone else decide for them every time something new comes out?

having multiple Finder windows, less cluttered, more efficient, more flexible,

I don't comprehend how having multiple windows is less cluttered than a single window with tabs AND multi-pane OPTIONS when they can start landing on top of each other, etc. (OS X isn't the best at overlap handling, IMO), but if it works for you, great. XtraFinder even has an option for copying files that automatically creates two side-by-side separate Finder panes OR two top/bottom ones and so even if you prefer multiple windows, it still saves you time.

 

[PsykX]

Just here to add a little more spicy to this discussion...

 

[grahamperrin]

… my vision for how UI and OS should work very frequently mirrors what people at Apple think. …

That mirroring is a fine thing.

Over the weekend, whilst reading some words from Apple, I began realising that my vision – which is quite different from yours – also mirrors what people at Apple think …

… this is not merely a change in a visual style, but a declaration of a new UI paradigm.

Not only different paradigms, I suspect that there are conflicting philosophies within Apple recently. Perhaps careless or wilful ignorance of a philosophy. I might explain this later, in a different topic.

I understand that this is a major change which is quite polarising. I think its a shame that it will drive some people away from the system. Yosemite brings some amazing changes for the software part, with system-wide scriptability, Swift and new APIs that makes developing apps so much quicker and less error-prone.

I totally agree.

It's a terrible shame for thirty years of excellence to be marred in this way, and I'm convinced that the worst outcomes will be felt farther down the line – long, long after Yosemite is released. Felt but probably not quantifiable. I imagine myself to be within a tiny minority of users who are genuinely repelled by the overall effect of the appearances that are developing. I can't speak for others, for myself I must emphasise that being driven away is not an over-reaction.

Add to that: my public criticisms – both positive and negative – of Yosemite's in its pre-release state – effectively make me persona non grata with people who will remain nameless. These past few weeks, my reputation as a tester is, by my own choice, on a sacrificial altar. That's not a plea for sympathy or empathy, I'm just saying. If I'm virtually sacrificed online, I can recover and people can forget, and forget they should. I'm just a customer, with a passion for the greatness that Yosemite should show. I am vocal, I am metaphorically a terrier at the ankle of Apple (G.C., if you're reading, you might smile), but it's really not about me or my moment. The sacrifice is an encouragement for Apple to cut the crap. An encouragement to Apple to let its operating systems now, and in the future, be truly the best that they can be. I suspect that I'm wasting my blood but it's not the end of the world, just the end of an era. And it's only the world of software, not the real world … and there are other operating systems. So I'm contemplative, and still slowly shaking my head in disbelief, but I'm all smiles

----

To leman, to the leman whose vision frequently mirrors the thinking of people at Apple: my harshest summary of what Apple has done is yet to come. It's uncharacteristically concise but brutal; when it comes, please don't take it personally. But I'm not rushing to be brutal …

First, I should give Developer Preview 6 a chance. Time to quit Mavericks and boot Mashemite …

 

[grahamperrin]

… Apple has never been big on choices, but I always assumed that was Steve Jobs Ego at work. They don't have to keep doing that. …

With or without the magic J-word, that's interesting. If you're inclined, I'll appreciate a contribution to the Visionary Apple approaches … topic. At your leisure. Thanks.

Just here to add a little more spicy to this discussion...

Image

Wow! First impression: that's totally beautiful.

Second impression: the paleness of the grey word Colors on a pale grey background is entirely the wrong level of contrast. Still, it's legible √

Third impression, and this didn't come quickly: I realised that it's much larger than life (maybe a shot from a Retina display). I found it acceptably legible only because it's HUGE!

 

[leman]

Second, user attitudes to software (Yosemite in particular): whatever statistics you might get, I should not attempt to draw any conclusion. We could attempt to analyse just the two topics pictured – the beautiful and the terrible

Oh, I completely agree, I was just trying to be funny.

Wow! First impression: that's totally beautiful.

Haha, I actually think that the new color picker is quite ugly. And its also dysfunctional — the crayons stay the same size when you resize the window.I would expect them to change size appropriately. Or at least the window should be non-resizeable. What I do kind of like though are the contrasting lines, it helps put the color in perspective.

P.S. I have been looking at it. Its growing on me. I am afraid I adapt too quickly

 

[n-evo]

Just here to add a little more spicy to this discussion...

Image

I honestly don't think it looks all that bad.

 

[PsykX]

With or without the magic J-word, that's interesting. If you're inclined, I'll appreciate a contribution to the Visionary Apple approaches … topic. At your leisure. Thanks.



Wow! First impression: that's totally beautiful.

Second impression: the paleness of the grey word Colors on a pale grey background is entirely the wrong level of contrast. Still, it's legible √

Third impression, and this didn't come quickly: I realised that it's much larger than life (maybe a shot from a Retina display). I found it acceptably legible only because it's HUGE!

For everything bad you can say about Yosemite, I thought you were going to buy a gun and kill yourself when you were to see this

Honestly, I can't help but laugh at this shot. I find it awful myself.

And yes, it was a retina shot.

 

[Lankyman]

Just had my first look at Yosemite and I agree 100% with the OP. What on earth are Apple thinking?

It's like a design for Kindergarten or a computer for the kids from Toys R Us. What on earth is going on with that new dock and all the gaudy colours. I think this is one iteration I'll be giving a miss. Whoever thought Windows 8 was bad needs to have a look at this dogs breakfast.

I don't care, I'm quite happy being the little boy in the Emperors New Clothes.

 

[grahamperrin]

… What on earth are Apple thinking?

… dogs breakfast. …

A shared vision within the company would have prevented such reactions to supposed improvements.

I hope you guys use the Feedback Assistant or Apple's Bug Report website to provide Apple with solutions to make Yosemite look better for the final release.

While it's good to have a discussion here and exchange thoughts and opinions, this forum thread will probably never reach Apple.

+1

… for testers in general, but no longer for me. Sorry. Five minutes with Yosemite Developer Preview 6 was enough. Ten minutes, too much; I stumbled across more redesigns that made me cringe. Suspicion grows that Apple no longer has a shared vision of how to make OS X excel.

The more I see of Yosemite, the easier it becomes for me to retreat from Apple products in general. The company needs feedback from people who have confidence that Apple genuinely wishes to produce the best. I see the company demonstrating something quite different; Yosemite has almost completely destroyed the confidence that I once had in the company's integrity.

So it's back to Mavericks, and an extraordinary personal preference that some readers might treat as immature, but my change of heart has personal integrity. Screenshot attached.

The Yosemite mash-up, the mixture of beauty and bloody tatters, might near maturity, if the car crashes can be ignored, but I am certain that its shaky principles can not stand the test of time.

 

[mikejfrd]

If the functionality and performance are up to par, I think it's crazy to not use or to possibly move away from apple solely based off the esthetics of an OS alone. Whether you like the new direction that Apple is moving towards in OSX and iOS with the "flatter" look is certainly subjective and some hate it, but as long as it works and performs well, in the end I can care less whether my icons are flat or 3D. It's an OS not a human being... OSX and iOS have been and will continue to evolve. Some updates will please the user more visually than others, but as long as it continues to perform better than its competition; I'm good with it.

 

[grahamperrin]

Yosemite Developer Preview 6 appearance: a round-up

… it's crazy to not use or to possibly move away from apple solely based off the esthetics of an OS alone. …

Agreed.

Some changes to appearance impair the usability of the interface.

An early round-up of Yosemite DP 6 appearance criticisms from elsewhere

I have a lot of trouble using the new flat UI. Having a bunch of overlapping windows open just looks like a sea of indistinct gray blobs. Turning off the translucency helps some, but I find myself constantly pausing to try to figure out just what I'm looking at.

After the major iOS overhaul and some previous Yosemite screen shots, I should know better than to look at beta threads during lunch hour. Almost choked on my sandwich.

Yosemite is turning into a visual nightmare if you were 100% content with previous iterations of iOS & OS X.

I can't wait for this flat fad to be over with its oversimplified icons, narrower fonts that are harder to read, grey text on grey surfaces, white text on super bright neon colors, icons that look hazy compared to their clearly defined predecessors, ... The whole thing just looks like a draft. And this being Apple you don't get many options to fix what you don't like about the UI.

… Some things are getting lighter, thinner, smaller and this is terrible for people with any eyesight issues. Apple is going to get a lot of complaints. Look at the forward and back "buttons" on iOS 7 and 10.10 Safari.. thin as a human hair and a lower contrast. Terrible.

If you increase the size of the system-wide font it destroys all rendering of a web page - things overlap! Gee thanks, I can see better now. In other words, we are stuck with type sizes that are smaller than the rest of the publishing industry uses because it "looks better." "But I can't see it!?" …

Tried ot and hate it. Interface makes me sick.

I love the new functionality, but dear GODS is OSX hideous and unprofessional looking now.

I don't like the design, it looks so simple and cheap. The old "metallic" design is much more pretty to look at

… The flat design is, in my opinion, horrible and unsightly, and the icons are, if possible, worse.

If I wanted to go back to a PowerPC version of MacOS X, it would be Tiger. Panther was still relatively incomplete. Granted I'd have a bit of a difficult time running any PowerPC software on a Core i7-based MBP.

… While a lot of the features in Yosemite are certainly nice, and indeed steps forwards, the interface which I specified, at least in my opinion, is a step backwards. A shame we can't skin the way we could in Mac OS 9 and earlier. All we have now are icons. …

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

With or without the magic J-word, that's interesting. If you're inclined, I'll appreciate a contribution to the Visionary Apple approaches … topic. At your leisure. Thanks.

I find those videos amazing. Steve Jobs talking about how OS X *MUST* have "KILLER GRAPHICS" and goes on about OpenGL being the most widely available (not used?) 3D standard, etc. and that they spent MONTHS just designing the Aqua BUTTONS (all to be replaced now with just a "flat fill" that took 1 second in Photoshop with flat red, yellow and green). What a SHAME.

It sounds like there was a real emphasis on being at the very forefront of OS technology and staying there. Somewhere along the way, it turned into "let's make the hardware look THIN and PRETTY instead" and now "let's make the OS look fruity and easter egg-like. WTF happened to the BEST in graphics? The BEST in hardware? The best in everything? Now it's just a second thought to iOS devices... and then a graphical imitation of iOS devices and oh yeah, somewhere along the way, Apple stopped being Apple COMPUTER and started being Apple Shack.

And if you're going to do a "Cartoon GUI", at least do it PIXAR and not Uncle Grandpa....

Now on part 2, Steve talks about how they wanted an OS that worked both for 5-year olds and PROFESSIONALS and that was the GOAL of the OS X AQUA interface. It worked. Now apparently, they decided to make Macs just for 5-year olds. Instead of OS X "Yosemite", maybe they could have called it OS X "Power Rangers".

"Windows have wonderful shadows" on them.

The "enter" buttons gently blink since they have a gigaflop (don't do that anymore either). Really, it's obvious that AQUA ruled.

Love those "Save As" roll down windows so you know which app it's for. That's gone too. A shame.

 

[grahamperrin]

… It sounds like there was a real emphasis on being at the very forefront of OS technology and staying there. … WTF happened to the BEST in graphics? The BEST in hardware? The best in everything? …

Steve talks about how they wanted an OS that worked both for 5-year olds and PROFESSIONALS and that was the GOAL of the OS X AQUA interface. It worked.

+1

https://diigo.com/023lzv "… Build engineers are at the core of the Apple Software Development Process … delivering the best operating system …"

Software QA jobs at Apple – in some of the quality assurance jobs, there's emphasis on the best from Apple.

https://diigo.com/023m09 "… Apple not only cares about the Mac — it cares about making the best operating system … OS X Mavericks … closer to perfection …"

https://diigo.com/023m0c "… Apple and NeXT shared the common goal of making the best products they could … magical marriage of hardware and software … when you need to actually do work, the hardware and software become almost invisible compared to what you are doing …"

https://diigo.com/023m0l "… Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X …" – hmm