My day is genuinely better knowing that the sarcasm is from someone who's too lazy to read the background.
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Yosemite looks terrible!
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My day is genuinely better knowing that the sarcasm is from someone who's too lazy to read the background.
You really don't get the concept that telling people whose opinions you don't agree with to "leave" is the problem, do you? That's not an "argument" or a "discussion". It's a command. Sorry, I don't obey your commands.
Is the problem with the fonts a thinness one, a size one or something else? I've always thought that Windows' fonts were a bit too thin, but still readable. The text in the screenshots don't look bad here. What looks bad in actual use?
I know, I helped my cousin the other day and he still has Mavericks, I can't imaging going back to that look.
There's people that just can't move forward and just trashtalk everything new, the best thing to do is ignore them.
You really don't get the concept that telling people whose opinions you don't agree with to "leave" is the problem, do you? That's not an "argument" or a "discussion". It's a command. Sorry, I don't obey your commands.
Is the problem with the fonts a thinness one, a size one or something else? I've always thought that Windows' fonts were a bit too thin, but still readable. The text in the screenshots don't look bad here. What looks bad in actual use?
The problem is that you seem to be posting YOUR opinion as fact and then arguing with people that disagree.
You really don't get the concept that telling people whose opinions you don't agree with to "leave" is the problem, do you? That's not an "argument" or a "discussion". It's a command. Sorry, I don't obey your commands.
Is the problem with the fonts a thinness one, a size one or something else? I've always thought that Windows' fonts were a bit too thin, but still readable. The text in the screenshots don't look bad here. What looks bad in actual use?
My take is the fonts are too thin. Second, they don't do a good job with contrast in the pull downs on 10.10, they grey out icons for example on Fast User Switching, until you mouse over, that's just ugly. Then there's the Finder with Go menu icons all the same color, with transparency, not too easy on the eye. Things look generally out of focus, and I use HD non glare monitors.
When you start to remove distinguishing shadows, then use basically the same colors, it just make things harder to identify. I know its out of context here but my pet peeve with iOS 7 is Apple used only 5 or 6 colors for all those flat icons, the user relies more and more on the text, making the icon kind of useless.
I've seen reference to the Human Interface Guide in this thread, I've read both the original and updated for OS X versions and they're really well thought out. A huge part of the success for the Mac was that Apple had the forethought to define and build a user interface for humans as opposed to our friends in Redmond who force users to learn how to interface with the computer. That's why people always thought the Mac was "intuitive" back in the 80s, it "appears" to think like they do!
For those us who actually do develop on the Mac these things matter, its not just look and feel, its much deeper than that. I don't think the new crew at Apple actually thought though all these changes, they certainly didn't document it.
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hate the look and feel of Mavericks
Yosemite is not yet released and already you're trashing what's current; the thing that you're trashing is what you were impatiently looking forward to less than a year ago before it was finished. What specifically made you hate, so soon, the thing that you wanted?
Yosemite is not yet released and already you're trashing what's current; the thing that you're trashing is what you were impatiently looking forward to less than a year ago before it was finished. What specifically made you hate, so soon, the thing that you wanted?
Exactly, that's one of the problems, also, I never understood people that hate something so much and go to forums and just trash talk all day long.
If I don't like something I just don't talk about it and I move on, the best way of making your point is by not buying what you don't like, money talks.
And on different news, Apple stock just passed $100 dlls, close to an all time high, they must be doing something right.
Thanks. I have bookmarked API difference pages etc. but have not seen anything HIG-related. Without asking you to disclose anything confidential, have you seen anything in that area? (I assume that the 'updated for OS X' version mentioned above is the 2013-10 edition.)
At the time of me stepping away from Yosemite, I knew instinctively that it was the right thing for me. The discussions here, since then, have made me curious about what might explain that instinct. Tonight I began to find some things of possible interest. A couple of those:
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First saccade. Users often program, execute, and complete the first saccade before the interface is even visible (Byrne, 2001). This is possible, because over the many years of using the Web, they have incidentally registered frequently occurring configurations of web elements. In a study investigating expectations of element locations (Bernard, 2001), 304 students were asked to place cards representing different web elements on a 8 X 7 grid representing an empty browser window. Expected locations were as follows: web page title: top center of the page
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Implicit learning about where a visual search target is likely to appear often speeds up search. However, whether implicit learning guides spatial attention or affects postsearch decisional processes remains controversial. Using eye tracking, this study provides compelling evidence that implicit learning guides attention. In a training phase, participants often found the target in a high-frequency, "rich" quadrant of the display. When subsequently tested in a phase during which the target was randomly located, participants were twice as likely to direct the first saccadic eye movement to the previously rich quadrant than to any of the sparse quadrants. The attentional bias persisted for nearly 200 trials after training and was unabated by explicit instructions to distribute attention evenly. We propose that implicit learning guides spatial attention but in a qualitatively different manner than goal-driven attention.
abstract of First saccadic eye movement reveals persistent attentional guidance by implicit learning., J Exp Psychol Hum Percept Perform. 2014 Jun;40(3):1161-73. doi: 10.1037/a0035961. Epub 2014 Feb 10.----
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Just trash? Trash and nothing else? Which topic is that?
Remember that Apple wants to make the best, not the most
I really don't see what people's big problem with thinner fonts is, unless you're somehow visually impaired. I actually really loved the early betas of iOS7, and then with each one they seemed to get thicker and thicker because people were complaining. They should come with thin fonts as standard and the ability to thicken/bolden them up a little in settings.
Think of Yosemite as your blind date. You are excited, you get all dressed up, a rose in your lapel so you will recognise each other. You make your way to the restaurant and see your date for the first time.
Excitement turns to horror when you see Ms Yosemite in all her glory. Fortunately she hasn't seen you. You quickly remove the rose from your lapel and throw it to the floor. You turn and walk quickly back to your car - phew! that was a close call. You get out your phone and give Miss Mavericks a call, will she have you back? You realise just in time that Mavericks is a real looker especially when compared to Ms Yosemite.
Excitement turns to horror when you see Ms Yosemite in all her glory. Fortunately she hasn't seen you. You quickly remove the rose from your lapel and throw it to the floor. You turn and walk quickly back to your car - phew! that was a close call. You get out your phone and give Miss Mavericks a call, will she have you back? You realise just in time that Mavericks is a real looker especially when compared to Ms Yosemite.
Legible by default, or less legible by default. It should be an easy decision for Apple to make.
Rewind. Was Apple's choice of font weights for Mavericks based more upon worsening requests than upon enhancement requests? Did a group of designers agree upon the most legible approach, then intentionally increase heaviness until kerning was spoilt, so that a pleasingly high number of customer complaints could be received? I can't imagine those things happening. I imagine Apple's defaults for Mavericks giving due attention to customer requests for legibility and accessibility.
Rewind. Was Apple's choice of font weights for Mavericks based more upon worsening requests than upon enhancement requests? Did a group of designers agree upon the most legible approach, then intentionally increase heaviness until kerning was spoilt, so that a pleasingly high number of customer complaints could be received? I can't imagine those things happening. I imagine Apple's defaults for Mavericks giving due attention to customer requests for legibility and accessibility.
No I've seen no updates HIG-Related, that's what bothers me.
Apple has generally tried to find the most appealing font choice for the widest range of people and they don't have lots of user modifications. A blessing and a curse.
Isn't that a bit old fashioned? I'd be more excited about the appearance if you could flatten, modernise that rose before rushing to drive away.
Better still, get some transparent tarmac, and bleach the rose a little so that the visual hierarchy can be reinforced through depth and flatness. Or so that the unrelated road visually coinciding with the petals can distractingly help you to focus on the content of. Er … what was it? Whatshername. What was her name? Can't remember? Never even saw it? Never mind, just get a third party interpretation of what her name might have been. Anyway. Now drive away fast, as fast as you can and stop at the traffic lights. Don't be shy, park right up alongside that pole so there's only the slightest shadow between it and your car. Stand, tippy-toe on the roof and get your head closer to the three lights. Don't be shy now, there's something transparent about the coloured lenses. The transparency helps you to understand that they are traffic lights and that it's a road and so on. There's something unrelated to what you were trying to remember in at least two of the three and seeing more than one thing at once not forgetting the pole and the little shadow whilst being interested in only one of them will sell the content is king thing. King? Missus King, was it? Keep up George. King. George? The third? Turd. Yes that was it. Georgina King-Burlap and the shape of her head reminded you of a turd. Now hop up and down whilst moving your head from side to side so that you can never be sure exactly where the lights will be next, tell yourself that their position is consistent, understand that everything is and will be coherent, end the tippy-toe standing, heels down flat on the roof of the car, click them together three times and say "There's no place like Yosemite … there's no place like Yosemite …"
Well, I hosed my Yosemite iMac, and it'll be going back to Mavericks.
For me, it was experimental. I had intended that I might eventually reformat the machine anyway to create multiple partitions.
I'm normally an early adopter. I was interested that Apple did a public beta like this. I want to like it, but I'm just not taken in. Spotlight was nice, but Alfred still does a better job for me doing what it does.
I'm hoping it gets better. But looking at how enthusiastic some people are about it, I guess I'll just be one of those who shrug at this update. Maybe I'm an outlier and a curmudgeon. We'll see.
For me, it was experimental. I had intended that I might eventually reformat the machine anyway to create multiple partitions.
I'm normally an early adopter. I was interested that Apple did a public beta like this. I want to like it, but I'm just not taken in. Spotlight was nice, but Alfred still does a better job for me doing what it does.
I'm hoping it gets better. But looking at how enthusiastic some people are about it, I guess I'll just be one of those who shrug at this update. Maybe I'm an outlier and a curmudgeon. We'll see.
Yes I bloody can. I am running the Public beta and I know I like it in comparison to Mavericks.
Easily explained by the fact that people who are unhappy are much more likely to post than people who are happy. Statistical sampling bias. Let's look at the MacRumors forums as a whole... what percentage of the threads are about a problem or concern? Most of them. People don't often create threads to point out something great, and if they do, people aren't motivated to post in the thread. There is something to be said in solidarity about a problem, or trying to fix a problem; there is no such motivation when something is going well (such as the pretty likely fact that most people do indeed like iOS 7 and therefore also like the iOS 7ness of Yosemite).
Think of Yosemite as your blind date. You are excited, you get all dressed up, a rose in your lapel so you will recognise each other. You make your way to the restaurant and see your date for the first time.
Excitement turns to horror when you see Ms Yosemite in all her glory. Fortunately she hasn't seen you. You quickly remove the rose from your lapel and throw it to the floor. You turn and walk quickly back to your car - phew! that was a close call. You get out your phone and give Miss Mavericks a call, will she have you back? You realise just in time that Mavericks is a real looker especially when compared to Ms Yosemite.
Maybe next time put on your glasses and you won't confuse a random hobo for your gorgeous date
Why so quick to hate?
>> What specifically made you hate, so soon, the thing that you wanted?
What, specifically, within that comparison, made you hate, so soon after July 24th 2014, the thing that you had impatiently desired at Developer Preview 6 time in 2013?
If the seeds of your hatred for Mavericks began before use of this year's public beta of Yosemite: what, specifically, began that hatred?
Postscript and apology
Apologies: my original edition of this post misidentified the person answering as the person to whom the question had been addressed.
To correct what's above in this post (743) with 772 in mind I should have written,
What, specifically, within that comparison, made you hate some things, so soon after July 24th 2014?
If the seeds of hatred for those things began before the test period began: what, specifically, began that hatred?
Was your 3rd June recognition of the greatness of new operating systems partly based upon using Yosemite Developer Preview 1 for less than two days, or had you not used it? Apple's Public Beta for Yosemite began more than seven weeks later.
>> What specifically made you hate, so soon, the thing that you wanted?
What, specifically, within that comparison, made you hate, so soon after July 24th 2014, the thing that you had impatiently desired at Developer Preview 6 time in 2013?
If the seeds of your hatred for Mavericks began before use of this year's public beta of Yosemite: what, specifically, began that hatred?
Postscript and apology
Apologies: my original edition of this post misidentified the person answering as the person to whom the question had been addressed.
To correct what's above in this post (743) with 772 in mind I should have written,
What, specifically, within that comparison, made you hate some things, so soon after July 24th 2014?
If the seeds of hatred for those things began before the test period began: what, specifically, began that hatred?
Was your 3rd June recognition of the greatness of new operating systems partly based upon using Yosemite Developer Preview 1 for less than two days, or had you not used it? Apple's Public Beta for Yosemite began more than seven weeks later.
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Wrong person quoted lol.
I am not that guy but I wanted Mavericks at the time because it was NEW. Now Yosemite is new.
How exactly does implicit learning guiding spatial attention direct discussions of the overall minor changes between Mavericks and Yosemite? The abstract suggests that spatial frequency segmentation is implicitly learnt, which would argue people are good at segmenting novel displays using textural differences and using that to guide attention. Thus learning using texture surely means people can quickly adapt to new user interfaces? Translucency directly modifies spatial frequency, acting as a bandpass filter, thus serving as a better way to segment the UI than higher spatial frequency backgrounds (like brushed metal); this abstract can be read as supporting the use of translucency as a novel change to the UI.
I don't want to argue one way or another, but trying to find perceptual evidence to "objectively" say UI A is better than B is far from clear...
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RageQuit!!!
If Apple doesn't immediately return to the glossy/candy look of 10.1..... my next hardware won't be Apple hardware. Anyone know anything about the TRS-80?... I've been reading good things.
I quoted the following, an affirmative answer from you to a question that was for someone else:
You can what?
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Or maybe just a quit.
The human race sucks so much. Always extremes in both directions.
No one wants the glossy days from the early 2000s back, and even if it's his or her design taste.
But the design of Mavericks is polished and nice looking. It is clean and minimalistic with some small exceptions.
Yosemite has it's advantages too. I really like the frosted glass look I really want this paired with some stuff from Mavericks.
What I don't like is Jony Ive's color choices. But I know, just this statement defines me as a creature that's stuck in the past... I am right?
I was reacting to the overreaction.
I'm using the public beta as well. I think it's nice. It's different. Aesthetics are completely subjective and I'm fine with the way Yosemite looks. The constant change in OS X has been nice all around. I'm sure it will continue to change with each version.
Whenever I hear the rage quit speech in forums, I cannot help but roll my eyes. I mean, who really wants to buy all new hardware, replace all of their software with (hopefully) equivalent versions on a new platform, and then move over all of their media on top of that? It seems pretty silly to do over a GUI look/feel.
I got the full text of the article only a few minutes ago, I don't know whether I'll read it before I go away for the long weekend. It might be not easily understandable to me. Also, I planned to read the article in relation to something quite specific (nothing overall). So please, don't expect an answer from me – sorry.
I hadn't tried that …
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