Yosemite looks terrible!

[ParagJain]

If we look around, every major OS is going flat; I am not a UI designer type but, i feel that's the future.

Windows 8 and beyond is flat
Google's new andriod is on the flat UI as well
Google's new tools like mail, calendar etc is also moving towards Flat UI

iOS is on the flat UI concept
and so, the OS X is also moving towards the same concept.

I may personally not like it but i guess, that's the modern look and feel we all may end up seeing in every computing that we have..cellular, tablets, web and operating systems.

and to know that, OS X Mavericks is supported on my 7 year old iMac, i don't think i can ever complain. i would believe some of the newer phones may be more powerful than my dinosaur mac ..

 

[SanJacinto]

Processors gain maybe 15-20% every year, hardly the revolution of the 1990's. "Vastly improved" sounds like you've bought marketing.

Thank you. You made the response I had in mind.
I know that there is progress but I can remember how fast it was in the 90s. It is comparable to the smartphone movement right now.
Right now, for CPUs it's improvements in the power consumption.

 

[FelixDerKater]

Thank you. You made the response I had in mind.
I know that there is progress but I can remember how fast it was in the 90s. It is comparable to the smartphone movement right now.
Right now, for CPUs it's improvements in the power consumption.

There is nothing to drive rapid speed increases.

 

[bennibeef]

I just dont get why we had "flat" designs 15 years ago and we are now design wise at the same point. I mean seriously?

I dont know when you browsed the web the last time but not only the OS'ses are droping shadows and "depth" elements, every website goes to a flat look, every logo gets redesigned with only flatness in mind no realism for any shadow anymore.

When we saw the first few science fiction movies where the computers where everywhere or go to the time the first movies had transparent tablets und you could see the things on it - I think all the time you didnt see anything on that interface that was modeled after something real. And there everyone is like - agh man thats so cool when do we get stuff like this.

And now in a time everyone knows what a button is, how windows work, or functions everyone cries that it has no depth anymore.. Make up your mind

 

[haravikk]

The transition between System 9 and OS X + Aqua was not an anomaly and it's something we should be very thankful that happened.

Sorry, I was a bit harsher on OS X.0 than I intended, kind of muddled my point as a result! The point I was trying to make was that we had this surge of overly fancy effects that actually hindered both OS X and Windows for a while; fancy animations that were too slow, texturing that didn't really add anything, or is actually very ugly looking when you look back at it.

Actually, the water ripple for widgets is an example of animation that didn't really hurt anything; while it served no real purpose, adding a dashboard widget wasn't a common action, and the whole point of dashboard widgets was to add a sense of "fun" and visual flair, which the ripple complemented. The real problem came from things like animating dialogue boxes that took forever to open due to terrible performance; not that such animation was unwelcome, it can help clarify where the dialogue is coming from, but was simply handled poorly.

I just dont get why we had "flat" designs 15 years ago and we are now design wise at the same point. I mean seriously?

Except that it's not; old OSes were flat because they had to be, they simply couldn't support the kind of effects that modern machines can, but just because a system can support an effect doesn't mean you should use it. The whole point of flatness in modern operating systems is to further reduce obtrusive elements while minimising visual clutter and putting more focus on content rather than the window dressing.

This is what I was trying to get at with reference to the older OS X versions; they added a bunch of effects, 3d appearances and textures that didn't really serve a useful purpose, and just slowed things down and introduced clutter. We know now that good design comes from simplification, and the same is true of user interfaces.

Also, flatter doesn't mean the same as flat; we're not getting dull, neutral grey monotones here, the OS is still attractive visually, it just isn't trying to look so 3d for no reason anymore. It's a very different style of design to decades old systems that in spite of being "flat" actually were trying to look 3d with skeumorphism at every viable opportunity.

 

[roadbloc]

Can't say I'm keen on the look, but the look of an OS isn't really important to me. I will miss the professional shine OS X once had. Now it just looks like something between Windows 7 and Android.

 

[C. Robert]

I think its absolutely gorgeous. It brings the OS into the modern era of IOS.

 

[abshole765]

Just be thankful you can change all the pastel/fluorescent icons.

----------

You're not allowed to go into an art museum and say your 3 year old daughter could have made a better Pollock painting.

Anyone can throw paint on a canvas.

"But that's the great thing about art. Everyone can have their own opinion about why it sucks."

 

[Rogifan]

I'm curious why people think so-called flat design is synonymous with hardware limitations? In my opinion flat/modern - whatever you want to call it - design looks best on retina-like displays. If anything, I think so-called skeuomorphic design, or design with lots of shadows, gradients, faux glass etc. was there to compensate for non retina-like displays.

----------

Flat interfaces is nothing but regression.

It has existed since the very first GUI. Think about the mainstreams : Windows 3.1 and Mac OS 1. They were definitely flat. Skeuomorphism never existed in that time, because we didn't have the tech to make it.

Huh? Didn't Microsoft Bob come out in the 90s? Can't get more skeuomorphic than that. You don't need 3D and shadows, gradients, etc. when you have HD displays.

 

[.X.]

I'm sorry I'm calling BS. As a UI designer it's my job to make software visually pleasing and useable.

Just because it is your job it doesn't mean you're good at it. Where I work there are plenty of people who really suck at what they do.

Most of everything I've seen in Yosemite so far is a huge improvement compared to Mavericks and miles ahead of the desktop UI in Windows 8.1.

Yes, the Windows 8 UI is absolutely horrible, I agree with you there.

I understand 2013 is over so forgive me for even muttering this word but skeuomorphism in UI, the polar opposite of minimal design, is not the inevitable future of UI. Removing the gradients and 3D effects from the "X - +" buttons isn't a step back; it's a stylistic change. I want you to go back to the 80's and give me UI elements that looked like Yosemite's window controls because you don't know what you're talking about.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RAKTHEUNDEAD/media/Amiga/AmigaVsMac.jpg.html

You're not allowed to go into an art museum and say your 3 year old daughter could have made a better Pollock painting.

Yes, I am. It's called freedom of speech.

I'm not gonna stand here and let you say that Apple's hundreds of engineers are idiots. Sorry dude.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say anyone is an idiot. But if I did, it would be the UI designers and not the engineers.

 

[GerritV]

If we look around, every major OS is going flat; I am not a UI designer type but, i feel that's the future.

Windows 8 and beyond is flat
Google's new andriod is on the flat UI as well
Google's new tools like mail, calendar etc is also moving towards Flat UI

iOS is on the flat UI concept
and so, the OS X is also moving towards the same concept.

I feel like saying "Think different"

 

[Paradoxally]

Windows 8 and beyond is flat
Google's new andriod is on the flat UI as well
Google's new tools like mail, calendar etc is also moving towards Flat UI

Honestly, comparing Android and iOS's UI, I think Google really nailed it with Android 5. It's clean, with subtle shadows and animations. Much better than iOS 7 or 8 (but again, this is an opinion), which is ugly as hell because there's SO MUCH WHITE.

I just don't use Android because I develop for iOS - the App Store is still ahead of the GP one and apps generally are more polished. Also, performance-wise, iOS is second to none even on inferior spec'ed hardware (this is set to improve in Android 5, apparently).

 

[Rogifan]

I feel like saying "Think different"

Because keeping the same UI for 7+ years would be thinking differently?

 

[n-evo]

The folder icons are an obnoxious deep turquoise.

The new folder icons are very much light blue.


Anyway, I've seen these rants with every single (Mac) OS X release that featured interface changes to date. People where going insane when Apple dumped Platinum in favour of Aqua. Then people went crazy when Mac OS X Panther lessened the white, pinstripes + transparency and introduced sunken stoplight buttons. A disaster I'm sure some are still trying to recover from based on the outcry in 2003. After that people started bitching about Mac OS X Leopard's consistent single window theme (opposed to having like five or something without a clear purpose anymore) being too boring and the 3D Dock too much. With OS X Lion the world ended because some iOS interface features were introduced.


Here we go again, history repeating itself.

 

[Traverse]

Well, you shouldn't judge until you actually use it. I do feel (based on what I've seen and heard) that Apple needs to optimize for non-reinta displays since 92%+ of Mac users have/use non-retina displays.

I'm not a huge fan of transparency and flat, but I like iOS 7 so I'm optimistic. I feel that OS X lost some personality, but it's a transition; it will gain a new style.


As roadbloc said, the UI isn't the be-all, end-all thing for me. I care more about performance. I am worried that Yosemite will bring slow performance to older hardware (granted I'm using a 2013 rMBP), like iOS 7 did. As long as performance is on par/better than Mavericks I will likely upgrade for added benefits (Better Safari, iCloud Drive, etc..)


Can someone answer this though: Doesn't the previous OS get updated with some new features when a new OS comes out? I see no reason why iCloud Drive folder can't come to Mavericks (but I know it won't), but won't some of the Safari 8 performance enhancements (like Javascript) come in a Safari 7.1 update?

 

[KALLT]

Honestly, comparing Android and iOS's UI, I think Google really nailed it with Android 5. It's clean, with subtle shadows and animations. Much better than iOS 7 or 8 (but again, this is an opinion), which is ugly as hell because there's SO MUCH WHITE.

I agree, Google really outdid itself this time. The UI has a smooth and snappy flow and it adapts to the content that is shown by casting shadows or applying physical transitions. iOS looks very static and dull, almost outdated in comparison. But in addition, Google paid a lot more attention to human-interface guidelines and overall consistency, making the UI more approachable as a result (a domain previously ruled by Apple). This isn’t just flat design anymore, it’s skeuomorphism in its modern form.

 

[AbSoluTc]

I agree, Google really outdid itself this time. The UI has a smooth and snappy flow and it adapts to the content that is shown by casting shadows or applying physical transitions. iOS looks very static and dull, almost outdated in comparison. But in addition, Google paid a lot more attention to human-interface guidelines and overall consistency, making the UI more approachable as a result (a domain previously ruled by Apple). This isn’t just flat design anymore, it’s skeuomorphism in its modern form.

People really need to stop using words they don't understand. Google of all people did the same thing as Apple if not sooner. Same white all over, same flat icons, everything the same.

 

[KALLT]

People really need to stop using words they don't understand.

There has been some discussion about this. Google’s designer strongly emphasised layered paper as the metaphor for the design. The shadows and motions are meant to reflect that. It isn’t as tacky as a leather calendar, but it still draws heavily from the physical world. Apple did the same with iOS 7, but it didn’t take the metaphors as far as Google does now. It looks flat on its surface, but it works differently.

 

[Maaz]

I love it, it looks very clean and elegant, makes the current 3D icons look childish.

 

[potatis]

The new folder icons are very much light blue.


Anyway, I've seen these rants with every single (Mac) OS X release that featured interface changes to date. People where going insane when Apple dumped Platinum in favour of Aqua. Then people went crazy when Mac OS X Panther lessened the white, pinstripes + transparency and introduced sunken stoplight buttons. A disaster I'm sure some are still trying to recover from based on the outcry in 2003. After that people started bitching about Mac OS X Leopard's consistent single window theme (opposed to having like five or something without a clear purpose anymore) being too boring and the 3D Dock too much. With OS X Lion the world ended because some iOS interface features were introduced.


Here we go again, history repeating itself.

Now if only Apple would go back to the blue PowerMac G3 look on the hardware side...

 

[crashoverride77]

Some evidence ? Ok. Take a look at every toolbar in Yosemite, let's suppose the transparency's not there. We could have done this 15 years ago.

Flat interfaces : no shadows, no gradients, no borders, no 3D or isometry, actual physical things that exist in real world are substituted by symbols to refer to them. In the end, the G part of a GUI is dumbed down to its most simplistic point.

Looks like Google understands the in-between better than Apple. Android L is actually pretty good looking, better than iOS 7.

Just because he's on your side doesn't mean he understands his stuff more than people against you.

By the way, if Steve Jobs were still alive, we'd still have skeuomorphism everywhere. He was very fond of it, and that divided the designers at Apple. The point of skeuomorphism is, you don't have to be alienated by technology, and even if you don't know how it works, if you see something on the screen that looks like an object that actually exists, you'll already have an idea of what it does.

Look, I'm not against change, I would have appreciated a totally new interface in iOS 7, but skeuomorphism would still be present all over the place, trust me.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. Skeuomorphism or flat, both cases would have allowed to new features in Yosemite.

I didn't say he knows more stuff than others but he did explain why UI used to be flat decades ago which therefore actually does mean he understands some stuff more than others.

The android L comment you made, that is subjective and therefore not valid. I think android L looks terrible, doesn't mean I'm right.

In regards to Steve Jobs. Why, because he liked it? Do you think Steve jobs would be so close minded not to see current trends in UI design. Come on, he was a pioneer. Would the software have released with all the bugs under his supervision, now that's another question to ask.

People said the dumbed down yosemite, which is clearly wrong statement to make. On the contrary they made it a lot more sexy, while not dumbing it down at all. In 10 years if we would go back to aqua and no transparency, what would you call it? Because I think mavericks UI is now dumbed down and painfully outdated.

 

[smokesletsgo]

Do you think Steve jobs would be so close minded not to see current trends in UI design. Come on, he was a pioneer. Would the software have released with all the bugs under his supervision, now that's another question to ask.

I don't think S.Jobs gave a rats ass about trends. He had his own view and path. That's what made Apple unique, exclusive and above all.

 

[PsykX]

I don't think S.Jobs gave a rats ass about trends. He had his own view and path. That's what made Apple unique, exclusive and above all.

This. Not only did he like skeuomorphism, he promoted it along with Forstall. It was a very polarizing orientation at Apple, because half of the designers loved skeuomorphism, half of them hated it.

With Jobs dead and Forstall ousted, no wonder why everything suddenly gets flat. (I think Forstall was one of the biggest key players at Apple and it was a huge mistake to oust him. Even with him gone, and two years passing by, Apple hasn't really addressed the big reason why he's been kicked : Apple Maps. Could it be that the lack of time and user feed-back was the reason why Apple Maps was a failure ? And not Forstall's fault ?)

Skeuomorphism is what made Apple look so unique. It was their signature. With the coming of flat interfaces, Apple has become yet another player to blend through the landscape.

 

[rasputin1969]

Even with him gone, and two years passing by, Apple hasn't really addressed the big reason why he's been kicked : Apple Maps. Could it be that the lack of time and user feed-back was the reason why Apple Maps was a failure ? And not Forstall's fault ?)

No one had a problem with the Apple maps iOS front end - which was Forstall's responsibity. The issue with maps was the poor data, tiles and search results coming down from the server - which was _not_ Forstall's responsibility. Asking Forstall to apologies for server-side data was idiotic.

 

[crashoverride77]

This. Not only did he like skeuomorphism, he promoted it along with Forstall. It was a very polarizing orientation at Apple, because half of the designers loved skeuomorphism, half of them hated it.

With Jobs dead and Forstall ousted, no wonder why everything suddenly gets flat. (I think Forstall was one of the biggest key players at Apple and it was a huge mistake to oust him. Even with him gone, and two years passing by, Apple hasn't really addressed the big reason why he's been kicked : Apple Maps. Could it be that the lack of time and user feed-back was the reason why Apple Maps was a failure ? And not Forstall's fault ?)

Skeuomorphism is what made Apple look so unique. It was their signature. With the coming of flat interfaces, Apple has become yet another player to blend through the landscape.

The reason they used skeumorisphm is because when they released iPhone and iPad there was no touch input software that would be used as wide spread as iOS or have its functionality. This was a decade ago and the UI style was made to help accommodate consumers in using this new type of device and it's software.
Now we are in 2014 and I don't think ios would still look the same if Steve jobs was alive. Skeumorisphm didn't make apple unique or was their signature, it was the functionality of the software and hardware not the UI.
Of course he gave a rats ass about trends otherwise half the stuff we see today wouldn't even be around. He also didn't care about an App Store and we all know how that turned out. Steve Jobs didn't care about trends of its competitors but he clearly cared about tech trends in general and how apple will /could implement them. I mean if he didn't follow trends we also still be on power pcs rather than intel. Very big difference.
To say apple is now like all the others (bland etc) is very ignorant.